It's on bitches!!! Disney backs Blu-Ray!
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
sonycowboy
Member
xsarien said:
Ok. We've seen this multiple times. Wanna explain how it's relevant? Are you saying the Disney is just as stupid now as they were then?
OMG!! It's teh PROOF dat Blu-Ray is DEAD!
Microsoft bought Web-TV. It failed, Microsoft will never succeed at home entertainment!
sonycowboy said:
Well, the XBox ain't doin' too hot either.
But regardless, I'm just pointing out that support from studios is only one part of a much larger matrix. You need *consumer* support. A format can have all of the support in the world, if the players are expensive, only come from a few select manufacturers, and have compatibility issues, people are going to be hesitant and not adopt it.Also, from what I understand of both technologies, HD-DVD requires significantly *less* investment on the part of the companies who actually manufacture the discs; and given Sony's *ahem*...checkered history with widespread adoption of formats that they introduce (e.g., minidisc, the memory stick, SACD), I'm going to assume that there's something just fundamentally wrong with the way Sony likes/would like to let other companies adopt their standards, something that more mainstream standard creators don't do, to their benefit.
tahrikmili
Member
Should I sell my Betamax VCR?
I, for one, couldn't care less about Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. 4.5GB should be enough for anybody
I, for one, couldn't care less about Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. 4.5GB should be enough for anybody
tahrikmili
Member
Nerevar said:
True, my bad. When I thought DVD I automatically thought of DVD+-R since they are the most practical and available capacity around as a means of backup data storage.. I stand corrected.
9 GB should be enough for anybody.
xsarien said:Well, the XBox ain't doin' too hot either.
Exactly, and that's where PS3 comes in. With Blu-ray as its announced format, it is bound to attract a lot of consumer attention. Even if PS3 reaches, say, only half of the PS2's installed userbase, that would still be a significant number. Quite sufficient for respectable Blu-ray penetration.
Could it fail? Of course it could, but given the circumstances, the chances are fairly low.
Izzy said:
People have to buy the movies on the format first. And guess what's going to have more shelf space, DVD or either of the HDDVD formats? The PS3 will not garauntee anything for Blu Ray, any more than Xenon will garauntee anything for HD DVD.
Thing is, even people who have the capability to buy Blu Ray just because they have a PS3 may not buy it for fear that they will not be able to play it in 5 years. There's no concern about that with DVD, but these new formats will be fighting that problem in spades.
Whether the chances of failure are low depends entirely on your definition of failure. Was Laserdisc a failure? Minidisc? They have both enjoyed some level of success with tech heads. One of the formats is practically garaunteed this level of success.
If failure means anything less than DVD, or the amount of time it takes for the players to leave the market, it's anything but low.
Eh, I think you seriously overestimate the timeframe these formats are playing with here. They have DVD as their act to follow. If they don't enjoy some serious success right off the bat in terms of SOFTWARE sales, no one's going to care. They will get a negative reputation and it will be very hard to recover from that.
And there's no way adoption of highdef software is going to come even close to DVD.
And there's no way adoption of highdef software is going to come even close to DVD.
The new formats are not out to destroy regular DVD's the second they are released. At first they are only meant to supplement DVD's by holding stuff that you just can't fit on a DVD such as high definition movies. Once HDTV programming takes off TV show collections will need the extra space, too.
Izzy said:
Yeah, and it was about 17 years before VHS was handed its hat by DVD. Ask people to move on to a new format every 20 years or so, you won't hear too many complaints, ask them to adopt a new DVD, a format that's been around in the *mainstream* for about five years, and you'll get some resistence. HD-DVD seems - to me - to be the more seamless solution, especially with recent news that hybrid DVD/HD-DVD discs are possible.
Izzy said:
If they don't want HD-DVD to become marginalized like SVHS, they'd do well to stick with the hybrid discs for a few years. It's better for the longevity of the standard, if a few early adopters are dissapointed that they're not getting the full treatment, well, you know, sucks to be an early adopter. I'm sure HDTV owners of a year or two ago managed to survive the dearth of content available in the format.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
"Exactly, and that's where PS3 comes in. With Blu-ray as its announced format, it is bound to attract a lot of consumer attention. Even if PS3 reaches, say, only half of the PS2's installed userbase, that would still be a significant number. Quite sufficient for respectable Blu-ray penetration."
Just a thought, but with DVD penetration mentioned as one of the reasons as to why software sales are on the decline in Japan, wouldn't the pushing of the PS3 as a cheap Bluray player piss off a lot of developers (see also : Xbox 2 as cheap HD-DVD player) who would be looking to get maximum returns on software sales ?
I mean, noise was made by some developers about the PSP being able to play movies, and how that muddies the water so to speak interms of the machines focus.
You are right though, 40 million blu ray players would be a huge starting block. But then this goes back to the point above - if bluray is going to blow our socks off, would people then spend more cash on movies? Then again, with Sony getting cash from both, would they care??
Just a thought, but with DVD penetration mentioned as one of the reasons as to why software sales are on the decline in Japan, wouldn't the pushing of the PS3 as a cheap Bluray player piss off a lot of developers (see also : Xbox 2 as cheap HD-DVD player) who would be looking to get maximum returns on software sales ?
I mean, noise was made by some developers about the PSP being able to play movies, and how that muddies the water so to speak interms of the machines focus.
You are right though, 40 million blu ray players would be a huge starting block. But then this goes back to the point above - if bluray is going to blow our socks off, would people then spend more cash on movies? Then again, with Sony getting cash from both, would they care??
Is the world just getting generally stupid or did I become a genius when I wasn't looking, because I never thought reading comprehension was some amazing skill that only a select few of us were allowed to possess. Every tech. thread recently is working hard to prove that wrong though.
To all the stupid people, shut up, go die quietly somewhere.
Anyhow, Blu-Ray v. HD-DVD is going to be fucked up. I personally think Blu-Ray with its significantly better technology (in my opinion at least) and big boost of support from PS3 will be the winner. I just don't see Toshiba has having enough push behind their own product to keep it afloat should Warner or the other supporters get cold feet and jump ship or get wooed by Sony.
Really making Sony's acquisition of the backlog and whatnot look real smart at this point though. That could potentially be a big swinging point in this "war".
To all the stupid people, shut up, go die quietly somewhere.
Anyhow, Blu-Ray v. HD-DVD is going to be fucked up. I personally think Blu-Ray with its significantly better technology (in my opinion at least) and big boost of support from PS3 will be the winner. I just don't see Toshiba has having enough push behind their own product to keep it afloat should Warner or the other supporters get cold feet and jump ship or get wooed by Sony.
Really making Sony's acquisition of the backlog and whatnot look real smart at this point though. That could potentially be a big swinging point in this "war".
DCharlie said:
For Blu-Ray or HD-DVD to matter at all, more HDTV sets need to be sold. And unfortunately the adoption rate isn't as big as you would think right now. Regular CRT sets account for over 90% of the market worldwide. By 2008 analysts predict that Regular CRT sets will still dominate 70% of the market. I got this from some recent news story on Cnet.com
True, but once blue-ray comes out, there will be a lot more consumer incentive to get an HDTV. My parents have an HDTV, and it's great...but only on the stations that actually support it. There's like 20 HDTV channels, and only about half of them do a decent job with picture quality. By releasing Blue-ray, there will be more of a reason to having an HDTV.
Furthermore HDTVs are getting cheaper.
After reading this thread...I get the idea that people on this forum are actually supporting HDDVDs. WHY? It's an inferior format. If HD-DVD takes over, we're going to have more discs in TV collections, and hell maybe in just normal movies that don't sacrifice quality for storage.
Izzy said:
People were, however, ready for a new format at that point. There could not have been a better time to do it.
I find it dubious to claim that a substantial enough number of people to justify mass production of high def dvds to the point that you'll end up with the wide enough variety of software to feed the desire for hardware are interested.
There's a cycle here, and I think there are a lot of holes at the moment.
By the time high def formats are ready for prime time, a new format will be the better way to go. At that point, these formats will seem tiny by comparison, just like videodisc looks pretty tiny compared to dvd now. That is really what these formats are, videodisc all over again. It'll be somewhat successful, but be realistic. Whoever wins now, wins second prize in 5-10 years when we go again. Whoever buys into it (and people will. Anything you can sell can and probably will be bought by early adopters -- they are not the most important market by a long shot) will also 'lose,' in the sense that they'll be upgrading all over again.
Kanbee-san
Member
How is HD-DVD inferior ? Apart from space ?
Blu-ray can hold more data per layer and can have more layers than HD-DVD (HD-DVD probably will never have more than 2 layers; 4 layer disks are in the specs for Blu-ray and 8 layer disks have been shown in tech demos).Kanbee-san said:
Also while there will be RW versions, HD-DVD is mainly intended to take over the DVD's position as ROM for movies. Blu-ray is intended to take the place of VCR's as your main video recording device and the current plan calls for nearly every player to be able to record to multilayer rewritable disks.
Are you the same guy who was telling "Sony lovers" a day ago that they should thank MS for getting into the console biz because they gave Sony competition that was keeping them on their toes? What happened to competition being a good thing? Didn't fit the agenda today?jedimike said:
I think software devs wouldn't actually be pissed off (though they'll say otherwise to the press), rather they'd be ecstatic to have a scapegoat to explain why their software isn't selling well.DCharlie said:
I'm sure its not inaccurate to say that DVD sales are cutting into software sales, but its the reason why its happening that's important - people finding DVDs generally more compelling than games. Compete or die.
...Or should we handicap one industry for the sake of another?
What are you expecting to happen in 5-10 years that would require us to "go again"? We're in the first major overhaul to TV broadcast standards and TV display technology since, what, Color? Max resolution is getting bumped to 1920x1080 and the high def formats past muster to hold feature-length film content at that resolution plus the latest in digital surround sound, just like previously successful prerecorded video formats have done for their time and the standards of the day presented to them. Unless you're proposing that there will be another jump in video broadcast and display standards to something significantly higher than 1080p in a much shorter timeframe than has ever happened before, I don't see how the two high def formats aren't a good fit.maharg said:
I think both formats will bomb, I mean the average person cannot tell the difference in quality between VHS and DVD (or simply doesn't care). DVDs are hugely convenient to VHSs and offered tons of extra features. Not having to rewind the disc or having subtitles in many different languages and extra material on the disc are huge features. Unless these new formats can provide a similar jump in terms of features then they'll never be mainstream.
I agree. Another jump in definition won't happen for at least a couple of decades. At that point anyway, the human eye can't see much of a difference.
That's why I absolutely hate the idea of HD-DVDs. They don't have enough capacity, and whatever successor to DVD damn well better have enough capacity to satisfy HDTVs, because that format will be around for a long time.
If HD-DVDs, or even single layer Blue Ray makes it, we're going to have to switch to yet another video format in the near future. But if we've got something like dual-8 layer blue ray, the format should last decades.
Would 8 layer BRD's mean 8 transitional pauses between layers during the course of a movie? Or even more than the one we usually see during a DVD now?
Because that needs to go. Ideally, I'd like whatever next-gen media to do away with those, they're annoying. But at the very least, not increase them past the amount we have with current DVD's.
Because that needs to go. Ideally, I'd like whatever next-gen media to do away with those, they're annoying. But at the very least, not increase them past the amount we have with current DVD's.
soundwave05
Member
I think Blu-Ray will be the eventual successor to DVD, but it won't happen obviously as quickly as the VHS-to-DVD transition has. Blu-Ray or HD-DVD will probably be products for a high-end market until 2008/2009.
The movie studios are about evenly split between the two formats, but the electronic manufactures are overwhelmingly backing Blu-Ray (even Sony and Matsushita agree here).
PS3 using Blu-Ray helps a lot though. But what will be the kicker will HDTV prices coming down. Then people will have a real reason to upgrade.
The movie studios are about evenly split between the two formats, but the electronic manufactures are overwhelmingly backing Blu-Ray (even Sony and Matsushita agree here).
PS3 using Blu-Ray helps a lot though. But what will be the kicker will HDTV prices coming down. Then people will have a real reason to upgrade.
deadhorse32
Bad Art
THE WAREZABLE = THE WINNER
deadhorse32
Bad Art
And lets consider in Europe HDTV are almost inexistent. And I don' t foresee a big change in the next couples of years.
A little article about HDTV and Europe http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3652402.stm
A little article about HDTV and Europe http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3652402.stm
Nick Laslett
Member
Teddman said:
Get a decent DVD player, there is no pause for layer change. I wouldn't put up with it if I were you.
DVD Player Shootout
Well, that's why I said basically.sonycowboy said:
I've also heard mention that for HD-DVD Toshiba/NEC/Warner/etc are going for lower licensing fees than the BD group too, though I haven't really seen any PR either way concerning licensing.
Europe also happens to be roughly 40-45% of the PlayStation market.Milhouse31 said:
tahrikmili
Member
Milhouse31 said:
Truer words have not been spoken..
sonycowboy
Member
jarrod said:
I don't see how that number is true. I know it's experiencing the largest growth, but currently the pecking order is as follows:
NA > Europe > Japan
30M > 24M > 20M
With these numbers, Europe only gets 1/3 24/74 million units.
Although, maybe you meant to say that the PS2 has a 40-45% market share in Europe vs PC, Xbox, GC?
Also, there are already millions and millions of HDTV's already sold worldwide and the number is projected to double this year, so I think we'll see a somewhat faster adoption of High Def DVD (assuming these two formats don't screw it all up) than we did with DVD.
If I see ONE MORE PERSON SAY FOX IS REALEASING BR MOVIES!!!!!!!
christ people, READING IS COMPREHENSION!
Fox HAS NOT announced they will be releasing software for either format. Fox is on the steering committee for Blue-ray. BUT THEY ARE ALSO on the steering committee for DVD (and thus HD-DVD).
So to recap this damn thread
announced
HD-DVD
Warner/New Line (non-exclusive)
Paramount (non-exclusive)
Universal (non-exclusive)
Blue-ray
Sony/MGM (non-exclusive)
Disney (non-exclusive)
What does this tell you? Nothing. It just says that three companies (not including Sony/MGM or Warner/New Line) are announcing their support for a format but that they aren't opposed to the other format either.
christ people, READING IS COMPREHENSION!
Fox HAS NOT announced they will be releasing software for either format. Fox is on the steering committee for Blue-ray. BUT THEY ARE ALSO on the steering committee for DVD (and thus HD-DVD).
So to recap this damn thread
announced
HD-DVD
Warner/New Line (non-exclusive)
Paramount (non-exclusive)
Universal (non-exclusive)
Blue-ray
Sony/MGM (non-exclusive)
Disney (non-exclusive)
What does this tell you? Nothing. It just says that three companies (not including Sony/MGM or Warner/New Line) are announcing their support for a format but that they aren't opposed to the other format either.
Well, I did say "PlayStation" market. Seems PS2 is lagging a bit compared to PS1 in Europe, though really the American figures are likely just doing better thanks to decreased competition in the US market versus last generation. Looking overall for the PlayStation line though it's...sonycowboy said:
175M
NA~ 66M
EU~ 65M
JP~ 44M
...correct? Or are my numbers off?
kaching said:
Direct competition is good... indirect competition is not good. Take milk for example, If Darigold had the market on chocolate milk and Lucerne had the market on white milk... that would be bad. You would have to buy milk from two seperate companies and they don't have to directly compete.
sonycowboy
Member
jarrod said:
But the Playstation is currently producing less than 2% of software sales, so I don't think it makes much sense to be considering that population current..
WTF? By your own analogy then you're backing what you consider the wrong kind of competition. MS has Halo and Sony has GT. "Indirect" competition. It's no different than the kind of competition that would result from studios divided between HD-DVD and BRD.jedimike said:
And I'm not even going to get into why competition has to be "direct" to be considered "good".