Iwata's Broken Promises (NotEnoughShaders article)

ITT, people not knowing anything about Nintendo and expecting Nintendo to be a tech company...
Go read some history : http://www.amazon.com/dp/2918272159/?tag=neogaf0e-20

You can expect droughts on any Nintendo plateform in the future, no matter who is the CEO, the company is just not that big to create 10 games per plateform per year. The drought can be on the year the system is released or 1 or 2 years after.
The Wii here may be the exception, even 2008 had a few system sellers (Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart, Wii Music and Animal Crossing: City Folk)
 
I disagree that Wii had a bad launch and first year line-up.

There were a lot of smaller niche titels and "new ip" that were worth playing like Elebits, Excite truck, raving rabbits, trauma center (first on console), kororinpa, zack & wiki.. Also some failed efforts like red steel.

In it's first 12 months nintendo launched wii sports, zelda: twilight princess, super paper mario, metroid prime 3: corruption, wario smooth moves, mario strikers, excite truck, fire emblem: radiant dawn, mario party 8, batallion wars 2 and one of the gems of last generation, mario galaxy.

The also launched a lot of small applications like the web browser, the news and weather channels etc.. and people were still excited about the first virtual console releases back then.

That was not a bad first-party output. Wii started to fail by year 3-4 software wise, but it's first years were quite strong.
 
You can't be serious.

Well, cheaper controllers would mean they could have pushed the hardware for the same sales price.
That's kind of Nintendo's problem with the third parties, the hardware doesn't meet the requirements of the next-gen engines. And the current-gen is at end of the limetime, so porting the current engines with all the tools don't make sense either for many developers.
 
He made some wrong calls, didn't expand enough during 2009/2010 and has made the expansion too late. The marketing effort for 3DS and Wii U isn't good either (in the West).

It isn't his mistake that the industry is still going into the wrong direction though. Hopefully the indies can fill the gap.

Well, cheaper controllers would mean they could have pushed the hardware for the same sales price.
That's kind of Nintendo's problem with the third parties, the hardware doesn't meet the requirements of the next-gen engines. And the current-gen is at end of the limetime, so porting the current engines with all the tools don't make sense either for many developers.
The only thing it would change were a better entry price. The hardware wouldn't be at PS4 level with a year head start and low wattage.
The biggest mistake in all the analysis is to assume that Nintendo would be better with fighting the competition head to head, when said competition is bigger than them.
 
ITT, people not knowing anything about Nintendo and expecting Nintendo to be a tech company...
Go read some history : http://www.amazon.com/dp/2918272159/?tag=neogaf0e-20

You can expect droughts on any Nintendo plateform in the future, no matter who is the CEO, the company is just not that big to create 10 games per plateform per year. The drought can be on the year the system is released or 1 or 2 years after.
The Wii here may be the exception, even 2008 had a few system sellers (Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart, Wii Music and Animal Crossing: City Folk)

Yes. We know. Playing cards, crazy old man Yamauchi etc. But here's the thing. Companies are not an unchanging entity. If you sell a technological product, you are a tech company, with all the expectations for product support that brings.
 
Iwata did everything right with the Wii, which was a very bold move back then.

But then he did everything wrong with the Wii U, by playing it safe, and trying to ride on the earlier success of the Wii, but investing on an expensive and uninteresting gimmick with the gamepad.

They kind of avoided all of the innovation they did with the Wii with the Wii U.


I just hope they get back on track, I just don't think they will do so with the Wii U.
 
Is it difficult for a Japanese company to "clean house"?

When Hiroshi Yamauchi took over leadership of Nintendo, he supposedly asked his #2 to make a list of all the people he absolutely positively cannot fire.

When the #2 came back with the list, Yamauchi handed the list back to him and told him to go fire everyone on that list. Because he's Hiroshi Fucking Yamauchi, and people needed to understand that he can fire anyone.
 
Yes. We know. Playing cards, crazy old man Yamauchi etc. But here's the thing. Companies are not an unchanging entity. If you sell a technological product, you are a tech company, with all the expectations for product support that brings.

Games are not the "product support" for a console, games are where the money is for Nintendo, so that's their priority to create as many games as possible for each system. Again, they just not are that many (~3000, maybe more nowadays) and they have high quality standards to respect...
 
Hating on Iwata? One of the few CEOs that not only plays games, but develops them? The only CEO I can think of that interviews developers regularly just because he's genuinely interested in gaming? A man who provides news updates directly to fans, with memes to spare? A CEO that voluntarily slashed his own salary and took full responsibility when the 3DS failed to perform in its infancy?

Yeah OK, you keep hating on Iwata, who clearly is the big evil in this industry. It's not at all that he's only a man and couldn't possibly get everything right in one try.
 
Wow, I've never seen so much crazy shit said about one person on GAF in a long time.

Edit: Nintendo needs a business man or woman.

You mean like Reggie? Or Bobby Kotick? Or John Riccitello? Or Youichi Wada? Yeah, I'll PASS on that shit, thanks. And thankfully, it seems shareholders at other game companies have decided to do the same.

Did you not see what "Crazy Ken" did to Sony? Now imagine the same thing happening to Nintendo if Iwata keeps it up.

I'm still blown away that Iwata is being compared to Kutaragi. They're like polar opposites: Kutaragi didn't give a shit about the consumer and Iwata cares too damn much, focusing on the average consumer more than the whole of the industry. That's Iwata's failing, and it's a style he inherited from Yamauchi. It looks like he only just recently snapped out of it.

Nintendo suffered their first loss in decades with Iwata.

That's more dangerous than some Virtual Boy screw up (which was axed fast).

Sony's suffered year-after-year losses, where was Stringer's head on a pike in 2007 onward? And let's not start about Kaz Hirai, the man who until recently called gaming a pillar of Sony's business while sending brand new hardware to languish and die on the marketplace. At least Nintendo acknowledges the Wii U's existence with more than lip service (albeit not by much at the moment)

I've heard this argument before. It's not relevant, and frankly ridiculous. You don't keep a bad CEO around because the damage is done, or because it will take a while to change. You get someone new in place and try to right the ship.

Shareholders vote to keep him, and they're financially invested in Nintendo's future, so if anyone wanted the ship righted, they've had plenty of opportunity.

They absolutely were trying to repeat the Wii Remote. They saw the mass market appeal of tablets and thought the could sell people a convergence of gaming and tablet by putting shit like Tvii and whatever in the OS. The entire thing is trying to appeal to the kind of people who buy Kindles and iPads, the problem is its a shit version of them.

Or they saw that they could add DS-style gameplay to their home console as an OPTION. I've never heard such a strange thing on GAF as more options for play being a bad thing or a regression or whatever people are calling it now.

Upon reflection, my money would be on: there's nothing wrong with Iwata per se, he has always shown every sign of being a smart developer with a good instinct for genuinely interesting ideas. That doesn't make you automatically the world's greatest businessman though. Combine that with him being given the job of digging Nintendo out of the pit they dug for themselves with the N64 - something a lot of fans never saw (and still don't see) because of fond memories of Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time.

Yeah, people are talking up Iwata ruining 3rd-party relations and I go cross-eyed. Sorry folks, that well was poisoned LONG before his time with the N64, which actually has the worst 3rd-party output of any of Nintendo's consoles to date. Nostalgia never strikes harder or obscures the truth more than memories of Nintendo's "glorious" past consoles, like all of the terrible shit game communities said about each one of them didn't exist and everyone held hands and sang songs of the Gamecube's praise, just as they do now.

... I'm exaggerating, of course, but the point remains that revisionist history has made GAF its bitch on numerous occasions and no one seems to care.

A Nintendo console is only good when it's not sold anymore, then it's the best thing EVER, Gamecube and N64's universal praise after the fact is all the proof needed of that. The "glory day" opining in this very thread for Hiroshi Yamauchi, the man that caused all these long-term problems Nintendo still struggles with today, is damning evidence of this, as well.

Iwata could have turned this all around as soon as he stepped in, except doing so would have required the one thing no executive should do: throw the guy who appointed you (in this case, Yamauchi, the guy who still owns a shitload of voting shares) under the bus.
 
Anyway, there's a clear direction he wanted to go. Going by the latest interview, one of the biggest priority is to realize more synergy between handheld and console games development. That's why the new gamepad is a smart move.

Whether Nintendo can continue this way or not is still unknown, but at least it's worth trying. And honestly, I think the hardware is the least problem, the software development makes me worry much more.
 
Games are not the "product support" for a console, games are where the money is for Nintendo, so that's their priority to create as many games as possible for each system. Again, they just not are that many (~3000, maybe more nowadays) and they have high quality standards to respect...

Did you just pull out the Nintendo Seal of Approval argument that hasn't been seen since it got destroyed on a playground in 1994?
 
I'm still blown away that Iwata is being compared to Kutaragi. They're like polar opposites: Kutaragi didn't give a shit about the consumer and Iwata cares too damn much, focusing on the average consumer more than the whole of the industry. That's Iwata's failing, and it's a style he inherited from Yamauchi. It looks like he only just recently snapped out of it.
I don't think Iwata cares either. Or if he did, he fails at caring for the core gamer.



Terrell said:
Sony's suffered year-after-year losses, where was Stringer's head on a pike in 2007 onward? And let's not start about Kaz Hirai, the man who until recently called gaming a pillar of Sony's business while sending brand new hardware to languish and die on the marketplace. At least Nintendo acknowledges the Wii U's existence with more than lip service (albeit not by much at the moment)
Weren't their losses a result of the PS3 (Ken's invention)? Even so, two wrongs don't make a right.
 
Iwata needs to up his game if he wants to compete.
Obligatory:

3ewla4v7qzsa.jpg
 
When Hiroshi Yamauchi took over leadership of Nintendo, he supposedly asked his #2 to make a list of all the people he absolutely positively cannot fire.

When the #2 came back with the list, Yamauchi handed the list back to him and told him to go fire everyone on that list. Because he's Hiroshi Fucking Yamauchi, and people needed to understand that he can fire anyone.

Really? What a badass.

Iwata needs to up his game if he wants to compete.
Obligatory:

3ewla4v7qzsa.jpg

Let's keep that childish stuff on Gamefaqs..
 
I also remembering other companies promising things. Seems unfair to lump it all on Iwata, especially when he never said the words "I promise by pain of death that...". They attempted to make the Wii U's launch better. Unlike the 3DS, they had a Mario game, they had an exclusive interesting title from Ubisoft. It didn't take, for various other reasons.
 
I also remembering other companies promising things. Seems unfair to lump it all on Iwata, especially when he never said the words "I promise by pain of death that...". They attempted to make the Wii U's launch better. Unlike the 3DS, they had a Mario game, they had an exclusive interesting title from Ubisoft. It didn't take, for various other reasons.

I haven't seen anyone calling for his killing...
 
I think the biggest mistake for both the 3DS and the WiiU was that Nintendo thought that they could get away with more expensive products compared to the previous consoles, because of their predecessors success, while they've been known for their affordable devices.

What they seemed to do with both the WiiU and the 3DS is that they tried to force some innovation (3D screen, WiiU gamepad) which led to some rising costs, while those costs could be moved to further system improvements (better battery life for the 3ds, more power for the WiiU console, improved Wiimote).

Also, i think that both the success of the Wii and the 3DS developed a way of thinking that they should always offer something very different than before, but it seems that they put a lot of resources into developing the so called "gimmicks" and not perfecting their already available services-devices in order to make a complete Nintendo ecosystem.

Hopefully the change in organization that Iwata has started (merging handheld and console development departments) will change that and steer Nintendo in a more unified ecosystem.
 
Well exactly, seems to be exaggerating a little. What was he supposed to say, "Software gaps are inevitable due to third parties not really digging our vibe, just play the back catalogue bitches."

I think posters in the thread have suggested he maybe should have worked harder to prevent it happening. That it has happened three times now, and maybe, just maybe, he is not cut out for the role that Nintendo requires of a CEO.
 
I think posters in the thread have suggested he maybe should have worked harder to prevent it happening. That it has happened three times now, and maybe, just maybe, he is not cut out for the role that Nintendo requires of a CEO.

Maybe. We'll see after the fiscal year report I guess, he's already implied he might. I do think he's done way more than people like the author of the article give him credit for though.
 
I don't think Iwata cares either. Or if he did, he fails at caring for the core gamer.

The core gamer is not the "average consumer" by a long shot. And that's where Iwata's head was at, which is a Yamauchi hold-over than his words show he's desperately trying to shake.

Weren't their losses a result of the PS3 (Ken's invention)? Even so, two wrongs don't make a right.

You're calling for Iwata's blood over one year of poor financials and struggling hardware launches, in a market climate where dedicated gaming devices finally have to fight for the consumer's attention. If the job he's doing is as terrible as it's being made out to be, so be it, but if we rotated presidents and CEOs out that quickly for not even failures but simply for weakened performance, companies the world over would be rotating them out semi-annually.

The strategy seems sound to me: since the core gamer was lost after the GameCube anyways (something he didn't get a say in or have much control over), might as well release mass-market products to build a huge war-chest and try to win back the industry they lost once they had cash to spare. I can't fault him that the hardware they put their first modest baby steps forward with hasn't exactly set the world on fire. But now they have the money that Iwata made them to be able to wait it out. And considering they wouldn't have that money to wait it out with if it weren't for Iwata, I'm willing to give him some time before calling him an outright failure.

It's not like anyone else would have faired much better digging Nintendo out of the mess Yamauchi left them with.
 
Did you just pull out the Nintendo Seal of Approval argument that hasn't been seen since it got destroyed on a playground in 1994?

Wasn't the seal of approval for 3rd party ??
What I was talking about is the quality of nintendo 1st party games. I don't have any metacritic average to demonstrate my point, but generally, one could say Nintendo games rate from good to great.
 
Maybe. We'll see after the fiscal year report I guess, he's already implied he might. I do think he's done way more than people like the author of the article give him credit for though.

He's done plenty of good stuff, he made billions for Nintendo. What he has not done is helped the long term viability of the current platform.

Wasn't the seal of approval for 3rd party ??
What I was talking about is the quality of nintendo 1st party games. I don't have any metacritic average to demonstrate my point, but generally, one could say Nintendo games rate from good to great.

I can't remember actually, I was being dickish. Nintendo first party games are generally pretty damn good. That doesn't give them a free pass (to a lot of gamers) for not having enough games to play.
 
I think to a certain extent Iwata's successes - Wii and DS - were down to great products overcoming Nintendo's platform management, rather than great products succeeding because of it.

Marry average or poor products to Nintendo's platform management, and things like GameCube and Wii U happen.

I forgot Iwata stewarded GameCube. It shouldn't be so surprising, then, to see some of the old playbook being taken out now with Wii U - like farming out collaboration with their own teams to try and curry support, in the face of terrible third party support. It didn't work very well then, though, so I'm not sure why Iwata thinks it will work now. Surely he has other ideas?

If he has none, or if he is rigidly sticking to Nintendo's existing style of platform management, then I think he definitely has to go, and it's time for someone to come in with new ideas about how to lead a platform and the relationships that build a platform.
 
Terrell said:
You're calling for Iwata's blood over one year of poor financials and struggling hardware launches, in a market climate where dedicated gaming devices finally have to fight for the consumer's attention.
It's more about his incompetence but the hemorrhaging of money is still unforgettable. Especially since "Nintendo is a fragile company" mantra gets repeated alot, it doesn't help he's the first to seriously bring Nintendo's finances in jeopardy.


So I think I'm more than justified asking for him to leave if he's the one going to kill Nintendo tomorrow.
 
I can't remember actually, I was being dickish. Nintendo first party games are generally pretty damn good. That doesn't give them a free pass (to a lot of gamers) for not having enough games to play.

Man, I wish I had enough time to play all the good games out there ;)
 
It's more about his incompetence but the hemorrhaging of money is still unforgettable. Especially since "Nintendo is a fragile company" mantra gets repeated alot, it doesn't help he's the first to seriously bring Nintendo's finances in jeopardy.


So I think I'm more than justified asking for him to leave if he's the one going to kill Nintendo tomorrow.

Yeah, their finances are in jeopardy alright, when they're sitting on more cash than the company ever has in their history. Sure, I'll believe that.
 
Nintendo's output is as good, if not better, as always, so I'm ok with Iwata. I prefer him, who has been all his life in the company, rather than some random business man who hasn't played a game in all his life, who would rush games or make decisions just for profit.

3DS also started slow, with almost no games, and now I play the heck out of it. Wii U will be the same, so I'm not worried.
 
Man, I wish I had enough time to play all the good games out there ;)

You've got plenty of time to play all the good games on WiiU :) Should only take a week if you go right through and you skip the ones you already played on other platforms. ;)

I don't think anyone doubts the quality of Nintendo's first party efforts, they are just not sufficient to satisfy demand for game variety with many people.
 
"Every time Iwata screws up, people will bring up his short term success between 2007 through 2009 to defend Iwata’s mediocre performance."
2006-2010 Nintendo generated an operating income bigger than 15 billion yen.
It's not just "short term success" it's record breaking (by a huge margin) for the videogame industry.

Yet I agree that Iwata, as his predecessor, went and will go through positive periods and negative ones.

"People give him credit for turning around the 3DS after a disastrous launch. The truth is you don’t deserve credit for fixing your own mistakes. You deserve credit for avoiding mistakes."
The truth is that videogames is a volatile market, at one time you can be at the top to later incur in severe losses.
You must endure through it, as Yamauchi knew too well.

Nintendo fans should be happy with Iwata, not because he is a likable guy, but because he assured, even if the company was reorganized, a continuity with Yamauchi.

Of course those who want a true revolution inside Nintendo (be aware you can break the toy) are legitimately asking for Iwata resignation (but that won't be enough, as I said changing one guy no matter if he is the CEO won't change Nintendo as you expect).

Iwata could have turned this all around as soon as he stepped in, except doing so would have required the one thing no executive should do: throw the guy who appointed you (in this case, Yamauchi, the guy who still owns a shitload of voting shares) under the bus.
The hell, Iwata shared Yamauchi view.
 
Yeah, their finances are in jeopardy alright, when they're sitting on more cash than the company ever has in their history. Sure, I'll believe that.
If it becomes a consecutive thing, they're going to die.

I do not want such a reckless and irresponsible man running a company.
 
You can only make solid promises when you have an established and tested pipeline. Iwata has done more to innovate the industry than almost anyone I can think of. You can't have it both ways.

When you innovate there are always going to be problems as things are untested. He's an extremely ambitious and creative man and has clearly done great things for Nintendo.
It saddens me that all it takes is delays for people to start screaming. As a fan of Valve, Stanley Kubrick, David Bowie, Team Ico and Nintendo, I can live with that. The proof is in the pudding.

Also, hubristic people never apologise.
 
I think to a certain extent Iwata's successes - Wii and DS - were down to great products overcoming Nintendo's platform management, rather than great products succeeding because of it.

Marry average or poor products to Nintendo's platform management, and things like GameCube and Wii U happen.

I forgot Iwata stewarded GameCube. It shouldn't be so surprising, then, to see some of the old playbook being taken out now with Wii U - like farming out collaboration with their own teams to try and curry support, in the face of terrible third party support. It didn't work very well then, though, so I'm not sure why Iwata thinks it will work now. Surely he has other ideas?

If he has none, or if he is rigidly sticking to Nintendo's existing style of platform management, then I think he definitely has to go, and it's time for someone to come in with new ideas about how to lead a platform and the relationships that build a platform.
Neither Gamecube or Wii U are "average or poor" product IMO, but I'm interested in what you call "Nintendo's platform management", can you define it ?

Also, people need to stop dramatizing all this stuff, with Nintendo it seems that it's either hell or heaven, but the reality is that a product like 3DS isn't a "failure", it's a good product that had an average start and will finish great library and stong sales in the end...
 
and people wonder why the market clamors for them to turn 3rd party. i would be satisfied for them to focus their efforts on handheld and make pc games. why not?
 
I disagree that Wii had a bad launch and first year line-up.

There were a lot of smaller niche titels and "new ip" that were worth playing like Elebits, Excite truck, raving rabbits, trauma center (first on console), kororinpa, zack & wiki.. Also some failed efforts like red steel.

In it's first 12 months nintendo launched wii sports, zelda: twilight princess, super paper mario, metroid prime 3: corruption, wario smooth moves, mario strikers, excite truck, fire emblem: radiant dawn, mario party 8, batallion wars 2 and one of the gems of last generation, mario galaxy.

The also launched a lot of small applications like the web browser, the news and weather channels etc.. and people were still excited about the first virtual console releases back then.

That was not a bad first-party output. Wii started to fail by year 3-4 software wise, but it's first years were quite strong.

Exactly.

And god it's depressing that Wii U's first year won't even come close to that.
 
I think to a certain extent Iwata's successes - Wii and DS - were down to great products overcoming Nintendo's platform management, rather than great products succeeding because of it.

Marry average or poor products to Nintendo's platform management, and things like GameCube and Wii U happen.

I forgot Iwata stewarded GameCube. It shouldn't be so surprising, then, to see some of the old playbook being taken out now with Wii U - like farming out collaboration with their own teams to try and curry support, in the face of terrible third party support. It didn't work very well then, though, so I'm not sure why Iwata thinks it will work now. Surely he has other ideas?

If he has none, or if he is rigidly sticking to Nintendo's existing style of platform management, then I think he definitely has to go, and it's time for someone to come in with new ideas about how to lead a platform and the relationships that build a platform.

This is very much the way I see it. The Wii was blessed with casual appeal, high margin hardware, low development costs and had a few cornerstone titles that kept selling and selling, covering up the droughts, mis-steps and failures. It was printing money whilst they were burning it behind the scenes.

It's only now that we're dealing with low-to-negative margin hardware with no casual appeal, expensive development and without the faithful cornerstones that we're seeing the true Nintendo come to the fore again.
 
Finished reading the article. Good article.
Sometimes it forget how it is necessary for Nintendo to dissociate from MS/sony, but the main point (Iwata having said for each console learning mistakes and trying to avoid software drought) is good. I mean, even me, as a Nintendo fan, I'm pissed off.
Whoever work at software planning needs too to be in the front line, not just Iwata.
 
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