cyberheater
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I know. It's total crap.
The mistake is buying a Nintendo console within the first two years.
Iwata's Broken Promises (NotEnoughShaders article)
- Thread starter eternalb
- Start date
The mistake is buying a Nintendo console within the first two years.
wilder.Boy
Member
I totally agree. While it's annoying to see the Wii U failing (again), I must admit that the last gen really was a success for Nintendo in terms of money. If we look at the evolution of the 3DS it seems like Nintendo will make a huge amount of money with it (again). This said, I can only hope they will manage to turn the table regarding the Wii U but I'm still confident they will manage this somehow.
Well if you're talking worldwide, it only recently overtook it (Dec 2012/Jan 2013) mainly because MS doesn't appeal to people in Japan (where Sony owns the HD console market) and Europe tends to prefer Sony as well. The reason sales would seem front loaded (which they aren't compared to other consoles) is because the PS3 had a fuck up of a console launch, and only took off with mainstream consumers post-slim. It makes sense the sales of the 360 would seem front loaded when the PS3 started selling at a trickle until price drops and games came out.
Regarding the other post, there were games that were only on PS3, but there were also a lot of (if not more) exclusive games on Wii and 360, so that's hardly the reason it just suddenly took off. Anyway this is not the thread for this discussion so yeah.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I'd like to see Iwata or someone use that as an excuse one day. Sorry if we haven't been releasing many games our new system. We figure it's not a big deal as you probably can just play your other game systems.
Game & Wario doesn't even have a solid release date yet. It's crazy.
DragonSworne
Banned
Guys, Nintendo releasing a game on time is not "rushing". It called good management. Nintendo has BAD management can never seem to deliver their games on time.
Iwata, instead of fixing the bad game management issue (Miyamoto), decided to make it a policy to not reveal release dates at all. It's the reason why don't know ANY release date for ANY Wii U game Nintendo is making right now.
It's another example of Iwata being a very very poor CEO.
Iwata, instead of fixing the bad game management issue (Miyamoto), decided to make it a policy to not reveal release dates at all. It's the reason why don't know ANY release date for ANY Wii U game Nintendo is making right now.
It's another example of Iwata being a very very poor CEO.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
So was March 31st the official end to the Wii U "launch window"? I thought Pikmin 3 was supposed to be out during that time?
cyberheater
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Don't believe anything they tell you.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
I would much rather them ship a game when it is ready than ship it to meet a time/date.
Perhaps they should have moneyhatted some more 3rd party ports or something, but aside from that Ubisoft could have made bank had they not delayed Rayman.
Perhaps they should have moneyhatted some more 3rd party ports or something, but aside from that Ubisoft could have made bank had they not delayed Rayman.
Not releasing games on time isn't the problem at all. It's a good thing they are willing to push back releases for a better quality experience. The problem here is when they push those games back there aren't enough games to fill in the gaps from other developers, in-house or otherwise.
Takamura-San
Member
That works only if you have anything else to sell while the people wait. This is not the case.
I don't see why you are using Europe and Japan preferring Sony as excuses. Also, 360's sales aren't as front-loaded as you make it seem. When the 360 slim came out, it seen a surge in sales.
Fact is PS3 overtook 360 recently, and is selling better worldwide. There are far more high-profile exclusives on the PS3 than the 360. The Wii has many Nintendo games which are high-profile, so I don't think that would be fair int he comparison.
Changed to Q2 in a recent direct I think. Past caring now. WiiU will do what my Wii did. Just sit there unloved until the occasional Nintendo release trickles out.
thats fine for me because it isn't my main machine, but I can't imagine how annoying it'd be for someone that had this as their only games machine. Nintendo first party or not, I couldn't recommend it for that.
Well, I'd argue that it's inexperience in HD that is leading to inaccurate predictions about how long development will take. I've worked on games that slipped - in some cases repeatedly - and in some of those situations it was just the fact that we were not aware exactly how much work was required in what we were attempting.
That's not really a management issue; they can only work with the information they get from their team. It's a problem with their team, yes, but it's one borne out of inexperience.
Even then, shit goes wrong. Systems developed by two completely different people are discovered to interplay in unpleasant ways. A given graphical feature requires a little extra texture budget than was originally predicted. And on top of it all the software has to work perfectly when you add in the chaotic and unpredictable element that is a player.
DragonSworne
Banned
So did Iwata. Miyamoto trolling Nintendo since 1982
This is completely wrong. Creative software is nothing that can be estimated to any great accuracy. Sometimes things take longer, sometimes new things are added and those things are important, sometimes directions have to change. Being flexible and adaptable is part of good management. Knowing when things need more time in the oven, and that a great game often sells more than a good one are the signs of good management. Nintendo has easily the highest quality output of any major publisher, it's very rare for them to have stinkers. This is because they constantly re-evaluate games in development to meet high standards. Next Level Games spent 3 years on Luigi's mansion experimenting and throwing away things that maybe weren't even bad but just not excellent. It shows in the game.
To frame it from another perspective: I'm sure Nihilistic Software appreciates Sony's management on Vita, they shipped both their games on time and luckily with those key titles in place Vita is in a great position, right?
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I would much rather they actually plan to have some games ready for their new console. Anymore Nintendo just releases hardware with barely any software, and then they have to reassure gamers that yeah, we're planing this and that. Here's a logo and some concept art to hold you over because we didn't realize we had to have games available for our new console.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
No, like I said I would rather wait to play an awesome game than play an unfinished one now. I'm not even buying a Wii U until the first price drop.
That seems to be Nintendo's marketing strategy, so I just go with it.
entremet
Member
I agree. Nintendo alone can't handle two systems anymore.
I don't understand why HD is a problem for them to be honest. Most of their WiiU /Gamecube games look great on Dolphin. Just add some better lighting ,a few nicer ground textures and some grass and they'd look next gen enough for most people.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
I'm not sure I'd blame Iwata for the WiiU drought right now. It seems like there were plans in place to have games coming out, but things fell through. Rayman getting delayed for one, that was a pretty big dick move by Ubisoft that Nintendo had no control over. If Nintendo doesn't have a Direct anytime soon to give us some near-future release dates, then I'll start changing my mind.
On the other hand I think things like the WiiU's identity crisis and NoA are both big problems that fall on Iwata's shoulders. Especially the latter, there's no reason NoA shouldn't be more like SCEA, managing it's own studios and getting software together for the western market. NoA doesn't do this, Nintendo's western studios and all their partners report back to Japan (SPD in particular, IIRC).
NoA needs autonomy, and that needs to be a priority. The article is spot on about Reggie, they could replace him a hundred times over and chances are nothing will change until NCL gives the okay. As it is, they seem like a glorified localization branch and little more.
On the other hand I think things like the WiiU's identity crisis and NoA are both big problems that fall on Iwata's shoulders. Especially the latter, there's no reason NoA shouldn't be more like SCEA, managing it's own studios and getting software together for the western market. NoA doesn't do this, Nintendo's western studios and all their partners report back to Japan (SPD in particular, IIRC).
NoA needs autonomy, and that needs to be a priority. The article is spot on about Reggie, they could replace him a hundred times over and chances are nothing will change until NCL gives the okay. As it is, they seem like a glorified localization branch and little more.
turnbuckle
Member
I was a huge Nintendo fan until the Wii. I loved the DS too but have been extremely disappointed in decisions made about the 3ds. he's been at the helm during a period when they made a ton of money, but for the Nintendo fan inside me he's horrible. although he matters much less, I've pretty much been unhappy with Nintendo since the Reggie era, DS aside.
Who else is responsible then? You need to start preparing a console launch (software wise) about 3 years before it takes place (see Sony with the PS4) and it´s not only the drought now but also the absolutely abysmal launch which makes the WiiUs software situation so terrible.
Every school boy knows by now that you don´t launch a console without at least one or two megatons ever.
Omegasquash
Member
Eh, Nintendo is too busy trying to change the way you play. Good job on the handhelds, and poor job on the consoles.
I agree, based on my personal tastes, but I don't think they think so. Given what the Wii got lambasted for in general, too, I think resolution was fairly low down the list compared to, well, everything else.
I don't think you read my post correctly. I was saying the 360 only appears front loaded compared to the shitty PS3 launch and that it isn't actually front loaded at all (I was responding to an original post which said the 360 was front loaded and sales of the PS3 took off). I only game on Sony/Nintendo handhelds but I have an interest in the industry so don't start painting me as an Xbox fanboy when I'm not. The recent exclusive games you'd probably say are high profile seem to be only high profile in Japan (Ni No Kuni) or just bombs (PBR, LBPR). MineCraft and Halo 4 sold much better than the majority of recent PS exclusives. Preferences in consoles aren't an excuse. Japan is pretty Xenophobic and a non-Japanese console isn't something interesting there. The lack of JP sales is the main culprit to why the PS3 is selling better on a worldwide level. Cut out Japan and you see a different picture.
Given what we are looking at with Wii Fit U, Wii Party U, and Pikmin 3, this is the strategy they are employing at the moment with some of their internal titles.
I really started to like Iwata when they started doing the Nintendo Directs; I thought it was very cool that such a higher-up from Nintendo of all companies would stand in front of a camera every now and then and present us with whatever was coming out soon-ish. I think it's a shame that Nintendo Directs now usually come with the standard "Please understand" because pretty much every game has been delayed lately.
Question is if Nintendo really could turns things around if Iwata goes away because it's hard to believe everything is his fault.
Question is if Nintendo really could turns things around if Iwata goes away because it's hard to believe everything is his fault.
Why does he have little control over this? He is the CEO. He should be scheduling the games to release when they are needed, and taking steps to stop all these damn delays. Nintendo should be increasing and expanding development by adding more studios, because clearly, they need it.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
It isn't, there has been a software drought with every Nintendo console since the N64, and Iwata has done nothing to solve the problem.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
If we had gotten Rayman in February I don't think the complaints would be nearly as drastic as they are now. January would have been the only stand out weak month.
And again, that's also assuming something is coming in the relatively near future (like, April and May). Someone else also mentioned canceled third party games, and that could have also been something Nintendo was counting in these early months.
Without being a fly on the wall or in the heads of some of the execs at Nintendo, it's hard to know exactly what went on. But it's entirely possible it could just be Iwata's incompetence, I'm just not ready to make that assumptions since we already know there has been one delay for a key former-exclusive game and some cancellations.
It's also pretty obvious they assumed NSMBU and Nintendo Land would be major system sellers, and that doesn't really seem to be the case.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
Worked perfectly for me with the SNES and WII.
Don't know, what they were thinking with the Wii U though.
Lightning Lord
Banned
I'm wondering if perhaps Nintendo should just focus on a single console/handheld instead of two at a time. Last gen the DS had amazing support after a slow launch where the Wii's support was rather shaky, becoming almost entirely non-existent by the end of its life.
The 3DS and Wii U seem to be mimicking this exact trend all over again.
Oh, I misunderstood what you meant with the front-loaded part. Yup, that is true.
Wasn't talking about the recent "high-profile" (I would never consider PSABR & LBPR as high-profile). Was talking about God of War, Uncharted, GT, and etc. Just saying they have more of those than MS, but unarguably, Halo is potentially bigger than all of them, but with that variety of games, they would sell more PS3s, so exclusives the PS3 has does help.
I'm not painting you as a fanboy at all. It's your argument that is poor to me. I can say the same thing:
Cut out the US sales and you will see a different picture...
I find it silly to cut a region off when considering worldwide sales.
I'll stop here since you are right about it being off-topic.
The same could be said of MS and Sony for all the incompetent products they release.
Exterminieren
Banned
It's true that Nintendo is in a very bad place, but that peak market cap was ludicrously and unsustainably inflated. It was higher than Toyota at that point, for goodness sake.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
I honestly think that's going to happen next-gen. Convergence between home console and portable. Iwata said they weren't, but I refuse to believe him until I see it.
Have a portable you can dock and play on the TV, and even maybe maintain compatibility with the existing BT accessories for motion/Wii Fit type games.
The problem with Rayman and other (probably multiplatform) third party titles is that they are not capable of really pushing the sales, let alone create any hype.
What i was talking about are real Killer Apps/System Sellers like 3D Mario, a huge new Retro game, Zelda and so on.
It's not 'HD' development that is causing these problems. It's the same old issue they've had for the last 20 years. Not enough first party teams to make up for the lack of third party support and a perfectionism that leads to constant delays. They've made some efforts to rectify this by handing out franchises to third parties and ramping up their development staff, but Nintendo is still a very conservative company.
They did not read the situation well at all after the launch of Wii, that is when they should have expanded. By 2008 they had released all the software that was in development prior to the launch of the Wii but had not planned beyond that. There was a whole year between Smash Bros Brawl and Wii Sports Resort where Nintendo had no big games. They were always going to struggle to support development for 3/4 platforms (which is what they were doing between 2009 and 2012).
They did not read the situation well at all after the launch of Wii, that is when they should have expanded. By 2008 they had released all the software that was in development prior to the launch of the Wii but had not planned beyond that. There was a whole year between Smash Bros Brawl and Wii Sports Resort where Nintendo had no big games. They were always going to struggle to support development for 3/4 platforms (which is what they were doing between 2009 and 2012).
First, they need to give control to NOA and NOE...they can start by there. Howard Lincoln made sure that there was at least western content coming to the consoles at the time.
evilromero
Member
It's about time Nintendo had some new leadership. Iwata had a good ride but it's been long enough.
Products published by Microsoft Game Studios for the 360 in five months:
Kameo
PGR3
Perfect Dark Zero
(Ninety-Nine Nights would be out in Japan in a month or so, launch-aligned, so you may wish to include that)
Products published by SCE for the PS3 in five months:
Genji
NBA 07
Resistance: Fall of Man
F1 Championship Edition
Motorstorm
(Ridge Racer 7 in Europe was copublished by them)
Products published by Nintendo for the Wii U in five months:
New Super Mario Bros. U
Nintendo Land
Sing Party
Lego City Undercover
(NG3 was published by Nintendo outside Japan; Game & Wario has *just* come out in Japan).
While I'd like to see more first party titles, Nintendo's performance seems on a par with the other first-party devs; I think their production would have been fine - if it had been bolstered by third party production.
They absolutely need to be able to produce more content; they have two systems to support, and they need development teams capable of living up to that. But what they've actually *done* seems... okay, really. The problem is that they haven't successfully courted third parties to fill in the gaps.
He had an insanely profitable stretch during that period. Probably the best profits anyone has every achieved in the gaming sector. But you're right in many aspects. It's all been so cynical and calculated and at the expense of certain things that made Nintendo so great. I know it's during his reign that the impossible happened for me: I went from a lifelong Nintendo fan who put them above all other console companies, to just no longer caring. It was just constant disappointment to the point I've entered complete ambivalence towards the company.
No, thats not ok, and you explain why in your post. Microsoft and Sony can fall back on third party devs. Nintendo can't. Therefore, it is Nintendo's responsibility to put out games for their system at a consistent rate.
A few thoughts:
1 - Nice article that is a pretty good indictment of some of his work, especially the correlation between western sales and not building a machine that appeals to western devs. Although the GameCube was sweet tech that still got ignored.
2 - I have two tvs in my man room and still love and use Off-TV play, but outside the stats in the US and Europe the one TV things is obviously designed (again) for the Japanese audience
3 - I knew that the Wii U would struggle for ports in a year or two, but it is alarming how they aren't getting any of the PS360 ports a) this spring and b) the rest of time like Battlefield, etc.
4 - I suppose I would rather have games delayed and be great, but the slew of first party titles missing the launch window (most without any release date) is disturbing. It would seem that Game & Wario and Wii Fit U should have been release in Jan - Feb at least.
HOWEVER, Nintendo maintains an awesome cash position and would be in the shitter if they lost as much money as I imagine MS and Sony lost throughout much of this generation. They don't have other divisions to help offset huge losses for the high end boxes, etc.
1 - Nice article that is a pretty good indictment of some of his work, especially the correlation between western sales and not building a machine that appeals to western devs. Although the GameCube was sweet tech that still got ignored.
2 - I have two tvs in my man room and still love and use Off-TV play, but outside the stats in the US and Europe the one TV things is obviously designed (again) for the Japanese audience
3 - I knew that the Wii U would struggle for ports in a year or two, but it is alarming how they aren't getting any of the PS360 ports a) this spring and b) the rest of time like Battlefield, etc.
4 - I suppose I would rather have games delayed and be great, but the slew of first party titles missing the launch window (most without any release date) is disturbing. It would seem that Game & Wario and Wii Fit U should have been release in Jan - Feb at least.
HOWEVER, Nintendo maintains an awesome cash position and would be in the shitter if they lost as much money as I imagine MS and Sony lost throughout much of this generation. They don't have other divisions to help offset huge losses for the high end boxes, etc.
Doing so lead to the Wii selling more consoles and making more profit than any system in Nintendo history. The DS, brought in under him, did the same for handhelds and is looking to take the spot as the greatest selling video game system to date. The 3DS is, once again, raking it in for handhelds.
Iwata occasionally makes a mistake, but he does thousand fold more good than bad. This is what people truly dislike about him do to their dislike of Nintendo. Its not that he is doing a bad job. Its that they "want" Iwata to fail. They want Nintendo to stop being the unique thorn in their side that forces changes where they don't want them. They don't want things that they don't like to be popular. They don't want the what they consider the lowest common denominator to be on top.
In short, they want 3 of the same exact things as opposed to 2. They want HD "triplets" because not being like everyone else is bad. Not focusing on what the big marketers and fanboys think is most important(graphics, specs, gore and military shooters) is bad.
Last I checked, the 3DS(brought by Iwata) is still reigining as the number 1 selling piece of hardware on the planet Earth. How that equates to Iwata needing to step down is beyond me.
Sure, lets discount legitimate complaints by saying anyone displeased with Nintendo is an anti-Nintendo fanboy. Great.