CartridgeBlower
Member
Die Another Day was not a great Bond movie, and certainly a little cartoonish, but this narrative that it 'severely damaged' the franchise is so ludicrous.
It was the highest grossing Bond up until that point...by far.
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James Bond 007 | OT | The name's Bond, James Bond
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Die Another Day was not a great Bond movie, and certainly a little cartoonish, but this narrative that it 'severely damaged' the franchise is so ludicrous.
It was the highest grossing Bond up until that point...by far.
So long? Spectre is two years old.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Batman & Robin made a lot of money, too.
It wasn't that it made money. It's that it got laughed at very, very hard.
CartridgeBlower
Member
Batman & Robin was the least successful Batman movie up until that point, so that comparison is totally wrong.
Kinda just proves my point, actually.
And this is an honest question -- did you see Die Another Day in theaters? I'm always curious about this, because when I saw it, no one 'laughed' at it. People liked it at the time because it was in direct contrast to the tamer (and somewhat dull) TWINE.
Again, Die Another Day is not a great film, but this internet narrative that has taken over isn't correct. They rebooted Bond because they re-obtained the rights to Casino Royale and had to get a younger Bond.
It was also a reaction to 9/11, where a more serious Bond made sense.
Transformers: Age of Extinction made over 1 billion dollar
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's not wrong. That movie made money. A lot of money. And it was laughed at.
That Die Another Day made a ton of money doesn't mean anything if the overall reputation of the series is a punchline. It got laughed at more than Austin Powers did, and that was a literal Bond Spoof.
Nobody involved, not the audience, nor the producers, was interested in pursuing that "success" further down the line. So they didn't.
edit: laughed at as in word of mouth was fucking awful. Not that audiences were belly-laughing in the theater. Although that probably happened in certain screenings, I'm sure. Along with the groaning. And the bored silence.
I mean, yeah, this is taking a long time. It's going to end up being a 4 year gap between Spectre and the new one if they don't even have Craig or a script figured out yet, filming would start by the very end of the year at the earliest.
Why is it that the Craig Bond run has been plagued by such huge gaps and frequent delays while Brosnan pumped out a new one every 2 years? They haven't been able to get their shit together ever since Casino Royale.
CartridgeBlower
Member
Again, you guys are being strangely obtuse when it comes to the facts.
Transformers Age of Extinction box office was way down (domestically) compared to the first three.
Same with Batman & Robin. Way down compared to the first three.
Die Another Day was substantially UP from the previous three Brosnan films.
And to argue that Batman and Robin "made a lot of money" is just completely incorrect. It barely cracked 100 million domestically and was a huge financial failure.
Transformers Age of Extinction box office was way down (domestically) compared to the first three.
Same with Batman & Robin. Way down compared to the first three.
Die Another Day was substantially UP from the previous three Brosnan films.
And to argue that Batman and Robin "made a lot of money" is just completely incorrect. It barely cracked 100 million domestically and was a huge financial failure.
CartridgeBlower
Member
Also you didn't answer my question -- did you see it in theaters when it came out?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Not really, man.
People didn't like the movie.
Still don't.
People including producers and audience members.
It was a shit film and nobody really wanted to continue down that path.
That it made a ton of money really doesn't mean much in the face of that.
Moonraker made a shit-ton of money too.
You just quoted the edit that specified my usage of the term "laughed at."
No, I didn't see it in the theater because the people who did see it in the theater that I knew warned me off of wasting my money on the giant fucking turd that it was. When I saw it on home video later I realized why they'd warned me off.
Because it was a bad movie. And it is a bad movie. It is, in fact, one of the worst Bonds ever made, if not the worst.
One billion earned dollar are one billion earned dollar.
Also, Die Another Day is laughable trash
CartridgeBlower
Member
Okay, man. Sure, whatever you say. Batman & Robin made a lot of money.
You just kinda bludgeon threads to death, don't you? Even when you're wrong.
CartridgeBlower
Member
Got it. Thanks for informing everyone about those audience reactions, though.
dragonfart28
Banned
Can we vote in theme songs?
I want Radiohead's 'Man of War' plz
I want Radiohead's 'Man of War' plz
You're the one pushing the issue, dude.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Dude, I don't care if you like Die Another Day. I like Alien 3. We all have our thing.
But almost everyone involved recognized that it was a shitty fucking movie. Because it's very obviously a shitty fucking movie. Nobody wanted to make more movies like that. It was a bad call.
Again: to use a Bond-specific example, Moonraker made a bunch of money, too. Very financially successful Bond film. I believe at the time it was also the highest grossing Bond there was? Could be wrong. Either way, they followed it up with a back-to-basics (ish) Bond because everyone involved recognized they'd made a bad film and it wasn't a good idea to continue pursuing the Moonraker path.
That happened with Die Another Day, as well. It made money. And it was a shit movie. So they didn't make another one like that.
I attempted to clear up the misunderstanding you had, because my wording wasn't as clear as it could have been. I clarified the wording. If you wanna keep willfully misunderstanding what I meant by "laugh at" even after my explanation, that's on you man. But I think I've made it obvious what I meant, Cart.
I'm really amazed that this is actually a point of debate. He's wrong how? You think popularity at the moment of release is the only barometer for cultural impact, or how they're judged later on?
Nothing about Die Another Day is good. No specific part, no particular element, no individual moment.
That film is a special form of soulless hell personified.
EDIT: Actually, Toby Stephens was kind of fun.
soldierblue
Member
Anyone else watch the George Lazenby doc on hulu? I really enjoyed it.
plagiarize
Banned
I did. I can't remember if I laughed at it or just groaned a lot, but it was terrible then and it's still terrible now.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Good things in Die Another Day:
- Fencing duel
- Bond Beard
- The idea of Bond being captured to kick off a movie
The last part is pretty much immediately thrown out the window after the opening credits.
I will admit, I've probably hate watched Die Another Day more times than I've earnestly watched Tomorrow Never Dies or The World is Not Enough
- Fencing duel
- Bond Beard
- The idea of Bond being captured to kick off a movie
The last part is pretty much immediately thrown out the window after the opening credits.
I will admit, I've probably hate watched Die Another Day more times than I've earnestly watched Tomorrow Never Dies or The World is Not Enough
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Speaking of Toby Stephens, if you haven't listened to his James Bond in their BBC Audio Dramas, you should. They're all pretty damned good.
Here's Goldfinger (Ian McKellen as Goldfinger, Rosamund Pike as Pussy Galore)
Vinter
Member
Remember watching it in the cinema and hating it from the start. It was better than The World Is Not Enough though. Wanted it to be good, but alas. Luckily the GOAT came out a few years later.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
We laughed at it. I saw it opening night with a group of friends for my birthday.
As a big Bond fan, yeah, it did take a lot of wind out of the series' credibility, big BO or not.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
There are a lot of mediocre Bond movies that start pretty strong and then get dumb.
DAD is one, The World Is Not Enough is another (although it's a lot better than DAD).
Die Another Day was mocked the minute it came out. It was seen as a laughing stock that was destroying the franchise. I saw it opening weekend.
They fired Pierce Brosnan (he wanted to do another film, badly. And was very bitter about being let go in interviews shortly after) and went a completely different direction because Die Another Day was so poorly received.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Ignatz!
I have a proposition for you.
How do you feel about Cults of Personality...
poppedcollar69
Member
Just recently I realized that Chris Cornell was the guy from the Casino Royale theme, and that finally contextualized his death for me a little
Imo that movie was the best Bond film. I read a good article on the subject that I agreed with http://www.gq.com/story/casino-royale-10-years/amp
Crazy that it's been more than 10 years. Sucks that everything since has basically been garbage
Imo that movie was the best Bond film. I read a good article on the subject that I agreed with http://www.gq.com/story/casino-royale-10-years/amp
Crazy that it's been more than 10 years. Sucks that everything since has basically been garbage
Sometimes I wonder if the issue is that the guys have always tried making Bond a sequel machine, when it should really just be a prestige franchise where a new Bond film -- not necessarily a sequel, and not necessarily the same actor as Bond -- comes out when it's good and ready. Like, what kind of world would it be in if we never saw "Bond will return in..." at the end?
I mean think about it, when have we seen the best Bond films in recent memory? After a hiatus when no one expected a sequel. Goldeneye. Casino Royale. When it has to carve out its own territory again to succeed. Perhaps that's where James functions best.
Vampfox
Banned
Skyfall was pretty good too.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Quantum pairs really well with Casino Royale. I just think of it as a long epilogue to that.
DOWN
Banned
It is indeed bizarre that you start with Casino Royale's explosive success and end up with a very unpredictable release schedule.
It's pretty clear that's what it became. The one and only direct sequel in the franchise, and the shortest movie in the franchise. They ended up making a sexy explosive epilogue, which was never meant to stand without Casino Royale in your history for context.
Daniel Craig set to return to Bond 25
So Daniel Craig for James Bond, Adele back for the song, a press conference in August perhaps, and filming from October to February. May have a Scandinavian Bond actress. And the codename is apparently "The Rhythm Machine."
So Daniel Craig for James Bond, Adele back for the song, a press conference in August perhaps, and filming from October to February. May have a Scandinavian Bond actress. And the codename is apparently "The Rhythm Machine."
Alicia Vikander should be a Bond girl.
I wholeheartedly agree on Alicia Vikander.
Hmm, seems like I've lost my rankings list dammit. May as well watch through the entire series again, since there's about seven or so movies I haven't even seen. And might as well open up the "James Bond Archives" book for some background while watching them.
Getting myself ready for Bond 25, betting on it opening next year.
Was Quantum of Solace based on any particular book?
Hmm, seems like I've lost my rankings list dammit. May as well watch through the entire series again, since there's about seven or so movies I haven't even seen. And might as well open up the "James Bond Archives" book for some background while watching them.
Getting myself ready for Bond 25, betting on it opening next year.
Was Quantum of Solace based on any particular book?
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
She'd be coming off Tomb Raider. Maybe they should watch Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation and take notes on what that movie did with Rebecca Ferguson.
My #1 wish for Bond 25 is for them to actually do some creative casting with the villain. No more obvious choices. Go for an actor that'll make me say "Oh, I've never seen them do that before. Interesting."
James Bond Returns... November 2019
Oh, a Funko Pop line was also announced during SDCC.
According to a leak, we'll see Sean Connery, Roger Moore, Daniel Craig, Blofeld, Jaws, Jill Masterson, Jinx and Oddjob.
Oh, a Funko Pop line was also announced during SDCC.
According to a leak, we'll see Sean Connery, Roger Moore, Daniel Craig, Blofeld, Jaws, Jill Masterson, Jinx and Oddjob.
I'd be more concerned about script than anything else. Skyfall and Spectre were trash, alongside their return to the classic formula.
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