Support NeoGAF

[Ninja Scooter]

you'd think Jaws III would have been enough to get SeaWorld shut down forever.

 

[Jaeger]

In full disclosure, my wife works for Seaworld Corporate. I hesitate to say that in threads like this because of all the irrational hate. With that said I obviously dont speak for them or her.

I can tell you that every single person I have met at that company doesnt like animals, they love them. And like many people here, simply want the best for all their animals. Like all of us, they are constrained by budget and size issues with many things. I can tell you every one of their animals gets the best food and vet care in the world. Thats not even close if you compare it to other zoos.

Also, not sure how many of you that hate the place have actually been there or seen it through a childs eyes. My ten year old son just last week had a kids day at work where he petted and fed an otter, and also saw how they were training a young sea lion for the show. He wants to be a marine biologist and believe me, thats 100% because of his interactions there.

I also have a 1 yr old daughter who only wants to watch frozen, elmo, or Mu (how she says shamu) videos on tv. Its cool seeing her wonder at them.

These are kids that are going to grow up picking up litter on the beach and caring for the environment. And that conservancy is preached throughout Seaworld, and has a real value to the world.

With that said, if you are just anti zoos, I get that. At least you are consistent and I respect that opinion. But those that just single out Seaworld based off of Blackfish, you really ought to do a little more research on that film.

I'm paraphrasing, but let me get this straight. Because kids love it, the workers love animals, it's ok to strip orcas from the sea, throw them in a tank, and make them do tricks for 20 years?

 

[Fink]

I can tell you that every single person I have met at that company doesnt like animals, they love them. And like many people here, simply want the best for all their animals.

I consider myself an animal lover. I don't doubt that those people love animals too. And sure, Sea World an it's employees are doing the best they can, but that is with the restriction that they need to keep these animals in captivity to make money. Their quality of life would be inevitably better if they had never been captive in the first place.

Like all of us, they are constrained by budget and size issues with many things.

Should they really be keeping them in the first place then? Would you get a dog if you can't afford to feed it?

Also, not sure how many of you that hate the place have actually been there or seen it through a childs eyes. My ten year old son just last week had a kids day at work where he petted and fed an otter, and also saw how they were training a young sea lion for the show. He wants to be a marine biologist and believe me, thats 100% because of his interactions there.

I also have a 1 yr old daughter who only wants to watch frozen, elmo, or Mu (how she says shamu) videos on tv. Its cool seeing her wonder at them.

These are kids that are going to grow up picking up litter on the beach and caring for the environment. And that conservancy is preached throughout Seaworld, and has a real value to the world.

Do we want to tell our kids that it's ok to treat other living things this way? Doing petty tricks for our amusement? Telling them these animals are simply below us and don't have enough intelligence to live in the wild and do their own thing?

My own admiration of animals came from watching Animal Planet, interacting with domestic animals (dogs, cats, horses, etc) and seeing the wildlife outside my own home. I never needed a dose of exotic animal suffering to inspire me to love animals. I went to SeaWorld once when I was 5 and getting splashed by a whale didn't inspire me anymore than the robotronic dinosaurs at Universal Studios.

 

[HUELEN10]

I'm paraphrasing, but let me get this straight. Because kids love it, the workers love animals, it's ok to strip orcas from the sea, throw them in a tank, and make them do tricks for 20 years?

Good grief, he never said anything about... Ugh.

I'm out.

 

[ShemhazaiX]

"Blackfish" recounts the 2010 death of veteran SeaWorld trainer who was killed by a whale named Tilikum. It challenges the concept of keeping killer whales for entertainment and suggests that Tilikum had been driven to madness by captivity."

I'm sorry, but after watching Frozen Planet, I'm sure it's less to do with Orcas going insane and more to do with them being sadistic murder machines that torture their prey. They're giant aquatic predators. Doesn't it make more sense for that to be the reason they killed someone?

I thought she was killed by a gorilla and had a movie about mists or something made about her.

Also:



Of course they would disagree with her on this. Their $ comes from these shows. They're not going to speak up against that or let anyone take their meal ticket away willy-nilly.

I see what you did there. >:[

 

[Nafai1123]

Is it about dolphin rape?

Dolphin rape would be a Disney movie compared to The Cove.

 

[DoktorEvil]

I'm paraphrasing, but let me get this straight. Because kids love it, the workers love animals, it's ok to strip orcas from the sea, throw them in a tank, and make them do tricks for 20 years?

Did you miss the part where he said he didn't speak for her or the corporation?

 

[FStop7]

Zoos saved the California condor.

But keep lumping all zoos and animal parks into the same bucket, GAF. Never fucking change.

 

[Reeks]

Whatever issues with SeaWorld exist, this is actually presented in a very troublesome way. Jane Goodall as far as anyone knows is not any sort of expert on marine wildlife and therefore has no special reason to present info.

She is an established and highly regarded mammalian behavioral scientist specializing in social behavior.

I NEVER trust documentaries anymore. Most of them are full of lies because they want to make a particular statement and will greatly distort the truth and hide other facts to serve their purpose. I've seen many docs where I find out later that 90% of what was shown was made up...

What about the many interviews with former trainers and employees? In addition to the mistreatment of the orcas, the trainers were also victims of Seaworld's negligence. Did you watch the documentary? I agree that many documentaries contain inflated information, just like the news, which is why I'd suggest fact-checking anything before you believe it.

 

[Wag]

Dolphin rape would be a Disney movie compared to The Cove.

Didn't South Park (or one of the other animated shows) do a parody on The Cove? I don't know, but The Cove has got to be one of the most brutal documentaries I've ever watched.

 

[Jaeger]

Did you miss the part where he said he didn't speak for her or the corporation?

Did I say he was? What I read was a defense for Sea World, where children's wonder and the magic justifies the existence of Sea World. No where did I say he was speaking for his wife. What was even the purpose of your post?

Good grief, he never said anything about... Ugh.

I'm out.

Never said anything about... what? Bye.

 

[ahoyle77]

I'm paraphrasing, but let me get this straight. Because kids love it, the workers love animals, it's ok to strip orcas from the sea, throw them in a tank, and make them do tricks for 20 years?

How you took that from what I wrote...I have no idea. With that said, they dont take any orcas from the wild, and havent for a long, long time. Even when they rescue these animals, its a Govt agency that decides if they are released back into the wild or not. If not, this agency offers them first to the zoo that would provide the best home, then that zoo can accept or not. Many times that happens to be Seaworld. Whether you agree with animals in captivity or not, they are the standard by which others are judged.

Also, do you realize many of their orcas came from other parks that didnt provide proper care?

 

[Pandaman]

aren't most of seaworlds orcas 'rescued' from other parks or born in captivity? i remember reading up on one of their shamu's and how fucked up her treatment at a marineworld was by comparison.

 

[Jaeger]

How you took that from what I wrote...I have no idea. With that said, they dont take any orcas from the wild, and havent for a long, long time. Even when they rescue these animals, its a Govt agency that decides if they are released back into the wild or not. If not, this agency offers them first to the zoo that would provide the best home, then that zoo can accept or not. Many times that happens to be Seaworld. Whether you agree with animals in captivity or not, they are the standard by which others are judged.

Also, do you realize many of their orcas came from other parks that didnt provide proper care?

An aspect that seems to be ignored is what happens to them after they are rescued from other places. Making them performing tourist acts is not what an actual Zoo does. Zoos tend to focus on the care and housing of animals (good ones). Sea World makes performing their focus, or at least that's what it appears to be. As someone pointed out in this thread earlier, Zoos and Sea World aren't the same thing.

One thing I noticed is how some animals are rehabilitated, and released back into the wild. I don't hear of that happening with Orcas. Once they are at Sea World, they are their for the rest of their lives.

 

[ahoyle77]

An aspect that seems to be ignored is what happens to them after they are rescued from other places. Making them performing tourist acts is not what an actual Zoo does. Zoos tend to focus on the care and housing of animals (good ones). Sea World makes performing their focus, or at least that's what it appears to be. As someone pointed out in this thread earlier, Zoos and Sea World aren't the same thing.

One thing I noticed is how some animals are rehabilitated, and released back into the wild. I don't hear of that happening with Orcas. Once they are at Sea World, they are their for the rest of their lives.

You quoted what I said, but did you read it?

If Seaworld rescues ANY animal, they have zero say if said animal is released into the wild, and to where it goes if not. There is a govt agency that does that.

 

[Jaeger]

You quoted what I said, but did you read it?

If Seaworld rescues ANY animal, they have zero say if said animal is released into the wild, and to where it goes if not. There is a govt agency that does that.

I read it. And I doubt that's totally true. There money in that business. Tourist from all over the world go to see those whales perform. I doubt it's strictly all about those whales when decisions like that are made.

 

[Fink]

With that said, they dont take any orcas from the wild, and havent for a long, long time. Even when they rescue these animals, its a Govt agency that decides if they are released back into the wild or not. If not, this agency offers them first to the zoo that would provide the best home, then that zoo can accept or not. Many times that happens to be Seaworld. Whether you agree with animals in captivity or not, they are the standard by which others are judged.

Also, do you realize many of their orcas came from other parks that didnt provide proper care?

Most of these whales can't be released into the wild since they've been captive for so long. SeaWorld might be the best place for a whale in captivity, but that doesn't make whales in captivity a good thing.

Their situation is fine for rehabilitation, but we know that SeaWorld is breeding orcas into captivity for use in their parks. They should let them die out and be done with it.

 

[markofhavoc]

What about the many interviews with former trainers and employees? In addition to the mistreatment of the orcas, the trainers were also victims of Seaworld's negligence. Did you watch the documentary? I agree that many documentaries contain inflated information, just like the news, which is why I'd suggest fact-checking anything before you believe it.

The movie relies on former SeaWorld employees, most of whom have little experience with killer whales, and others who haven’t worked at SeaWorld in nearly 20 years: These individuals, who speak with apparent authority, have little or no firsthand knowledge of the incidents they describe. Most of them had no experience with Tilikum, and several never even performed with killer whales in the water. The film’s “cast” is completely unfamiliar with current conditions and techniques at SeaWorld, and are certainly in no position to critique a trainer of Dawn Brancheau’s caliber or her last interaction with Tilikum.

Thats taken from the website they link to in the commercials. Obviously the Seaworld can be spinning the truth card is obvious, but the problem is Blackfish is obviously spinning the story too. In truth, most of this is silly, because both sides have an obvious agenda, so showing evidence from either side just becomes a tug of war

 

[ahoyle77]

If I am going to give a fact you dont believe, just because...well I'm done.

I'd challenge you, and really anyone that watched Blackfish to watch this...produced by an Orlando news station.

http://m.clickorlando.com/entertainment/seaworld/sea-world-50-years-of-caring/30925646

 

[Griss]

She is 100% correct.

I grew up near a dolphin rehabilitation facility. There was a fenced in area of open water where dolphins would be taken from America and placed for a while (months or years, to be clear) while they learned to catch their own fish, and more importantly interact with other dolphins who would pass by the outside of the net.

There were three dolphins there when I was little, but you weren't allowed to swim with them because the entire point was that they needed to wean themselves off human attention (which they loved, because they didn't know anything else). But you could go out to the centre of operations which was a house boat and watch them swimming around. Eventually they opened the fence but the dolphins refused to leave. They'd leave for a while but come back. One day we went out there and the person said the dolphins were gone. They'd been gone for a month. One of the wild dolphins was a human fanatic, always coming into shore and playing with us. We kind of assumed that the three captive dolphins would end up the same, but they were never seen again. I like to think they made it.

Sadly, the facility was closed down over a decade ago due to lack of funding, and turned into a massive uber-yacht mooring area. Yep. Tragic, but that original place was magical, and we need more places like it.

Dolphins are sentient, intelligent creatures. They deserve to be free.

 

[Fink]

If I am going to give a fact you dont believe, just because...well I'm done.

I'd challenge you, and really anyone that watched Blackfish to watch this...produced by an Orlando news station.

http://m.clickorlando.com/entertainment/seaworld/sea-world-50-years-of-caring/30925646

Rehabilitating animals is good. Making Orcas suffer to do so is not. SeaWorld can improve if they go the way of the Ringling bros and abandon their exploiting of intelligent animals for entertainment and moneymaking purposes. But it seems like they would rather stick to their old ways than adapt to a society that is becoming more wary about how we treat animals.

 

[Myansie]

Whatever issues with SeaWorld exist, this is actually presented in a very troublesome way. Jane Goodall as far as anyone knows is not any sort of expert on marine wildlife and therefore has no special reason to present info. Secondly, this dispute seems easily provable. Measure the sound in the tanks. SeaWorld says they do measure the sound in the tanks and that's it's less than the ambient ocean. If that's true then this is simply presenting bad information and will likely get repeated because SeaWorld is perceived to be unethical.

Sensory deprivation is a form of torture the CIA uses.

The sonar issue Goodall is talking about is different again. Seaworld sidestepped her point and still messed up. When the whale emits a sonar it echoes around the tank. The whale evolved in the ocean, not a cave, so it completely messes with its head.

 

[AkuMifune]

Since this was the last thread where we discussed this crappy organization:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/seaworld-cited-employee-safety-killer-whales-article-1.2206297

SeaWorld cited for employee safety over killer whales by California agency

SeaWorld San Diego was cited by the state’s Occupational Safety and Health division for not showing employees how to "safely interact with killer whales," Cal/OSHA announced.

The marine park was issued four citations Wednesday totaling $25,770 in fines.

Cal/OSHA said it launched an investigation after receiving a complaint and found the San Diego park hamstrung animal trainers by making them sign a confidentiality agreement that kept them from telling management about potential “hazards for fear of reprisal,” the San Diego Union-Tribune reported.

At least they love the animals.

 

[HORRORSHØW]

Since this was the last thread where we discussed this crappy organization:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/seaworld-cited-employee-safety-killer-whales-article-1.2206297



At least they love the animals.

that can't be right. they're fastidious in their care for orcas. it's probably the press twisting the details to fit their narrative.