Digital Gex
Banned
Bundled, but yes, but that isn't the point, the point is the ratio.
Also the N64 was only a comparison point, not sure why you are conflating the two.
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Japanese games may not have been as popular on PS1 in US as the myths had you believe (Sales of PS1 games NPD)
- Thread starter Digital Gex
- Start date
Bundled, but yes, but that isn't the point, the point is the ratio.
Also the N64 was only a comparison point, not sure why you are conflating the two.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Forum popularity =/= sales.
If it did, Frogger wouldn't be ranked 5th in sales. It would be more like 500th. Who the fuck knows how and why Frogger sold so well.
Even in modern days, the best selling games hardly anyone talks about. COD, FIFA, GTV, Minecraft etc.... You hardly ever see people talk about those games.
But then every once in a while someone brings up God Hand or Skies of Arcadia or some old Lunar game like those are awesome games. Maybe they are. But they probably sold terribly.
People got tot talk about them because there's nobody to play with and nobody they knew had them. So their last ditch is talking about it on forums hoping someone else catches on.
Another modern game - Bloodborne. With the amount of talk about that PS4 game, you'd think it sold 10 or 20 million copies. It sure got a lot more discussion than other big Sony franchises. But I think it sold only 3 million. Your average Madden game probably sold just as many copies.
If it did, Frogger wouldn't be ranked 5th in sales. It would be more like 500th. Who the fuck knows how and why Frogger sold so well.
Even in modern days, the best selling games hardly anyone talks about. COD, FIFA, GTV, Minecraft etc.... You hardly ever see people talk about those games.
But then every once in a while someone brings up God Hand or Skies of Arcadia or some old Lunar game like those are awesome games. Maybe they are. But they probably sold terribly.
People got tot talk about them because there's nobody to play with and nobody they knew had them. So their last ditch is talking about it on forums hoping someone else catches on.
Another modern game - Bloodborne. With the amount of talk about that PS4 game, you'd think it sold 10 or 20 million copies. It sure got a lot more discussion than other big Sony franchises. But I think it sold only 3 million. Your average Madden game probably sold just as many copies.
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Digital Gex
Banned
If you mean GTAV people talk about that a lot, and people freak out about COD every year lovers and haters.
Mildudon
Member
It sounds like bundled games in your book. By that logic a handfull of N64 games shound not count. (Games like Mario Kart 64, Super Mario 64 and Pokemon Stadium)
For the n64 13 out of 25= 52% vs PS1 10 out of 25 = 40% that is only a 12& diffrence.
Digital Gex
Banned
Again, the N64 was just a comparison, the ratio is in Japans favor on the N64 list. I have no idea why you are conflating the two lists together.
The difference also is that GT and Crash are right next to each other, yet Crash was less and limited bundling or depending on the game, had zero bundling. Which shows the strength of the Crash brand, but it doesn't take away from GT sales either.
mcjmetroid
Member
Haha do yourself a favour OP and don't check out the Wiiis total game sales and wonder why were not all talking about the classic that is Carnival Games.
Digital Gex
Banned
Considering I explained that multiple times this seems to be an issue with your reading comprehension. Or you're being obtuse on purpose and aren't even trying to read to find out why the N64 list was there.
Digital Gex
Banned
This doesn't work since a lot of the Wii Userbase were fads, and that userbase wasn't talking about Mad World or Red Steel, they were talking about Just Dance, Wii Sports, and yes, Carnival games.
That's a really poor example to use.
John Day
Member
See, this is where i lose you. That need to talk down, and call names. Is all that really necesary at all?
SuperGamer
Member
I like how you ignored the rest of my post where I debunked your irrational nonsensical arguments and only focused on my remaster comment. It makes no difference if Frogger on the PS1 is a remake or remaster. The reason it sold as much as it did is only because of nostalgia for the original Konami arcade game, not because of anything new the PS1 version may have added.
The original arcade Frogger was one of the biggest hits of the arcade golden age in the '80s. Many Americans were familiar with the arcade Frogger. There was even a Seinfeld episode about it in the '90s. The PS1 Frogger sold on name recognition and nostalgia alone. It wouldn't have sold squat if it wasn't for American nostalgia over the original arcade Frogger from Japan. Even today, the original arcade Frogger is far more well-remembered than the PS1 version, which existed solely to cash-in on the fame of the original Japanese arcade game.
Using Frogger to claim that Japanese games weren't popular is one of the silliest arguments I've heard in a while. What next? You're going to claim Godzilla isn't Japanese anymore just because Hollywood remade it? That's just cultural appropriation. Frogger is a Japanese IP, period. Frogger will always be Japanese, just like Godzilla, Pac-Man, Mario, Sonic, etc.
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SuperGamer
Member
Once again, the OP numbers are inaccurate, incomplete and outdated. Here are the more accurate complete NPD numbers:
RaySoft
Member
For starters, the PSX had region lock, so you needed a modchip to play JPN games on a US or PAL machine.
Going by salesnumbers is also quite misleading because of said modchip
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Digital Gex
Banned
You didn't debunk anything You spun the post and added random shit to make it look like you had an argument.
You even went on a random tangent for FFVIII, which was a trap I said because I was originally talking about FFVII the entire thread, the argument doesn't change whether it's FFVII or FFVIII Tony Hawk outsold both no matter what rant you go on.
Then you went on a illogical system seller rant making an excuse for GT's bundling (which wasn't necessary) while ignoring that Crash wasn't bundled and sold near the same and was also a system seller.
When you have a consistent argument then let me know.
Digital Gex
Banned
They aren't inaccurate, magic box PSX sales are unreliable and are missing games from the bigger list. If it was accurate the top 50 on both lists would include the same games but with different numbers, they don't.
Also Frogger PSX is not a "remaster" of 80's arcade game. Don't think I didn't see you try to dodge that fuck up, look up games before discussing them, instead of quickly looking at the first 5 pictures on google images.
SuperGamer
Member
The part of my post which Digital Gex dodged:
You have clearly no clue what a "system seller" is. Or what a "killer app" is. Please go look up what those mean. GT was a killer app. Crash was not. That's why GT was bundled and Crash was not bundled. Sony did not deem Crash to be popular enough to be worth bundling with the PS1. If GT can sell millions of $200-300 PS1 bundles, that's far more impressive than Crash selling millions of standalone $30-50 games.
WikiProject Video games: Sources
The Magic Box is clearly listed as a reliable source. Your source (http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~hokora/index.html) is nowhere to be found. In fact, it doesn't even exist anymore, but is a dead link. The Wikipedia video game community would outright dismiss your source as being completely unreliable
And again, you completely missed the point about Frogger. It doesn't matter if it's a remake or a remaster. It's still a version of Frogger. Updating the graphics or adding new levels doesn't change what Frogger is at its core: a Japanese arcade game. No matter how you spin it, Frogger is Japanese. Attempting to use a clearly Japanese-origin game like Frogger to somehow make a point about Japanese games not being popular enough, that's a self-contradictory irrational argument.
Gex's arguments have been debunked time and time again, by myself and others, yet he keeps repeating the same old irrational rants and fake news like a broken record...
Fake news. As I've already stated above, FFVII outsold every Tony Hawk game in the US, and FF 7-9 each outsold every Tony Hawk game worldwide.
You have clearly no clue what a "system seller" is. Or what a "killer app" is. Please go look up what those mean. GT was a killer app. Crash was not. That's why GT was bundled and Crash was not bundled. Sony did not deem Crash to be popular enough to be worth bundling with the PS1. If GT can sell millions of $200-300 PS1 bundles, that's far more impressive than Crash selling millions of standalone $30-50 games.
Here is a list of sources determined to be reliable sources by consensus from the Wikipedia video game community:
WikiProject Video games: Sources
The Magic Box is clearly listed as a reliable source. Your source (http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~hokora/index.html) is nowhere to be found. In fact, it doesn't even exist anymore, but is a dead link. The Wikipedia video game community would outright dismiss your source as being completely unreliable
And again, you completely missed the point about Frogger. It doesn't matter if it's a remake or a remaster. It's still a version of Frogger. Updating the graphics or adding new levels doesn't change what Frogger is at its core: a Japanese arcade game. No matter how you spin it, Frogger is Japanese. Attempting to use a clearly Japanese-origin game like Frogger to somehow make a point about Japanese games not being popular enough, that's a self-contradictory irrational argument.
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Digital Gex
Banned
I didn't dodge any of this, I addressed it in the post you ignored because you are a projecting hypocrite.
FFVIII wasn't even the game I talked about originally it was FFVIII, you are so weak minded that I got you to go off subject my mentioning FFVIII. Also FFVII did not outsell every Tony Hawk game, Tony Hawk 1 and 2 outsold FFVII you're unreliable magic box is garbage with inaccurate numbers and the full list in your link is missing games. Another problem with your charts unreliability, how the hell would Tony Hawk to be head of Tony Hawk one by a good margin by 2004, when Tony Hawk one had been off the shelf years before, then Tony Hawk one somehow gets ahead of Tony Hawk 2 when PSX sales were low as balls in software and would be dicontinued 2 years later in 2006?
This is the problem, you don't use your brain.
Also yes, it does make a difference if a game is bundled since Crash was a system seller and was statistically tied with GT with less bundle presense with its games, one of which had zero bundles even limited. You don't really have an argument in this case, Crash was a stronger brand and the US would start buying less GT games after GT 2.
This is the same flawed argument Mario 64 fans use to dismiss GoldenEye sales.
Also your NES comparison doesn't work, GT wasn't a full-on bundle it was a numerous but not a massively bundled game, in the US, GT and GT 2 were only bundled with the Psone and while a good many of those bundles were out they were nothing like SMB, Halo, or M64 style bundles were there was an insane load of them. This again, like with the frogger nonsense, shows you have no clue what you are talking about.
Also yes, Frogger PSX is not a japenese game, you being a baby is not going to change that. Just like Kill.Switch or Silient Hill Homecoming are also not japanese games, just because they may "own the ip", that doesn't mean the game was made buy a japanese company. When people play games they decide whether it's good or not based on the game, and the developer is mostly responsible for the quality of the game, especially back then, Konamis name isn't even on the damn case.
And let's not dodge the fact you took 5 seconds looking up the game on google images, didn't see the other levels, other than the highway, and thought it was jsut a 3D remaster of the 80's arcade game.
Keep digging that hole tho.
Umbral
Member
Says who?
Mokus
Member
7 billion people.
Umbral
Member
Eh, I don’t believe ‘em.
SuperGamer
Member
I refuted each and every one of your arguments, fool.
What the hell are you even talking about? Do you even read the garbage you write?
FFVII outsold every single Tony Hawk game, in the US and the world. Fact. Now deal with it.
US Platinum Videogame Chart
Yet again you dodge my argument. I already explained above why your OP source is a bullshit unreliable source with made-up fake numbers:
Fixed that for you, mate.
Now you're just contradicting yourself again. Earlier, you were claiming that most of the GT sales came from bundles. And now you claim most of the GT sales were not bundled. Which is it? And do you even have sources to back up your earlier claim about most GT sales coming from bundles? Of course not, because you were clearly pulling that out of your arse.
It's a remake of a Japanese game. A point you keep trying to dodge. Adding a few new levels doesn't make it a completely different game. It's still a remake of a Japanese game, no matter how you spin it.
Those are not remakes. Frogger PS1 is a remake of Frogger Arcade, a Japanese game.
Yeah, keep digging that hole, mate. Your arguments been already been demolished numerous times, by myself and others. No point wasting anymore time with your nonsensical bogus arguments. I'm done with you, fool.
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Digital Gex
Banned
This is a person who will lie about not addressing them but will not address the posts directly and them and constantly try to change or add new topics to the discussion because they don't know how to argue consistently and wouldn't have an arguent otherwise.
Frogger PSX is not a japanese game, no matter how much your mommy gives you a gold star for participating. There are facts, and there is you going mad, it's not a remaster or a remake of Frogger from the 80's it's a brand new game, this is what happens when a know it all jumps in the thread thinking you know anything.
Your magic box source also is missing games, this is a fact. What else is a fact is that Tony Hawk proskater 1 was off the shelf in 2004 when the OP NPD list was made, your 2007 list which claims to include sales up to 2006 somehow takes Town Hawk 2,which sold significantly more than Tony Hawk 1, and somehow has Tony Hawk one sell significantly more than Tony Hawk 2, during the last two years of the PSX life, when Tony Hawk 1 was already off the shelf. Sorry but I'm going to go with NPD over magic box instead of a missing game and weird ranking that it has. Magic box is somewhat good for Euro estimates and in some cases japanese sales, but not NPD, at least not during the time of the PSX onward. Truth is Tony Hawk 1 and 2 outsold FF7. Heck even the new releases for both withn the last year has Tony Hawk sell more in a shorter time than FF7 remake did. Granted, Skate boarding isn't the fad right now so maybe FF7remake will win with legs, but back in the PSX days that didn;t happen.
Notice how my post actually addressed your original mistakes and BS talking points and I am not just randomly saying "i debunked your shit" when you didn't nor did you rebuke or address the psots against what you want to believe, which isn't true.
All other crap FFVIII trap you fell for put aside, is you trying to move or expand the conversation because your original argument is trash and weak. good day,
(also lol, people are constantly fighting the "wikipedia community" to implement reliable sources they don't want to use, the fact you think that's a reliable "group" is laughable.)
Frogger PSX is not a japanese game, no matter how much your mommy gives you a gold star for participating. There are facts, and there is you going mad, it's not a remaster or a remake of Frogger from the 80's it's a brand new game, this is what happens when a know it all jumps in the thread thinking you know anything.
Your magic box source also is missing games, this is a fact. What else is a fact is that Tony Hawk proskater 1 was off the shelf in 2004 when the OP NPD list was made, your 2007 list which claims to include sales up to 2006 somehow takes Town Hawk 2,which sold significantly more than Tony Hawk 1, and somehow has Tony Hawk one sell significantly more than Tony Hawk 2, during the last two years of the PSX life, when Tony Hawk 1 was already off the shelf. Sorry but I'm going to go with NPD over magic box instead of a missing game and weird ranking that it has. Magic box is somewhat good for Euro estimates and in some cases japanese sales, but not NPD, at least not during the time of the PSX onward. Truth is Tony Hawk 1 and 2 outsold FF7. Heck even the new releases for both withn the last year has Tony Hawk sell more in a shorter time than FF7 remake did. Granted, Skate boarding isn't the fad right now so maybe FF7remake will win with legs, but back in the PSX days that didn;t happen.
Notice how my post actually addressed your original mistakes and BS talking points and I am not just randomly saying "i debunked your shit" when you didn't nor did you rebuke or address the psots against what you want to believe, which isn't true.
All other crap FFVIII trap you fell for put aside, is you trying to move or expand the conversation because your original argument is trash and weak. good day,
(also lol, people are constantly fighting the "wikipedia community" to implement reliable sources they don't want to use, the fact you think that's a reliable "group" is laughable.)
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TheAssist
Member
So they only had the best selling racing games, RPG's, fighters, survival horror and stealth games on the platform.
the reason they are so popular is because the Japanese catered to an audience that wasn't served well with western studios. They delivered new and exiting gameplay and stories that you couldn't get anywhere else. Yeah sure racing games and platformer had a bigger mass appeal compared to a horror, fighting or role playing game, but they sold incredibly well for what they were.
Its hard to compare with Nintendo. They hardly had any support from western publishers to begin with. So this is a very skewed comparison.
the reason they are so popular is because the Japanese catered to an audience that wasn't served well with western studios. They delivered new and exiting gameplay and stories that you couldn't get anywhere else. Yeah sure racing games and platformer had a bigger mass appeal compared to a horror, fighting or role playing game, but they sold incredibly well for what they were.
Its hard to compare with Nintendo. They hardly had any support from western publishers to begin with. So this is a very skewed comparison.
S
SpongebobSquaredance
Unconfirmed Member
games back didn't need to sell multi million copies to make a profit.
Digital Gex
Banned
You do realize the new "gameplay" at the time where the western games right? Outside the Genesis Japanese titles were the common games on home consoles, the reason why the medium increase in audience which became even more apparent with Xbox/PS2.
TheAssist
Member
Yes I remember all the western survival horror games and the western 3D fighting games and the stealth action games and the western japanese role playing games
(maybe not new in general, but new for most of the western market).I'm not saying that western devs didnt put anything new to the table, but for me, a westerner, the japanese stuff was more interesting. Especially during the PS2/XBox time. I mean its a taste thing. And I personally like it.
I guess I just dont know what myths OP is talking about. All the games are kinda where I would expect them to be. Even slightly higher for some franchises. Didnt know tekken was up there. or FF8.