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[Antiochus]

Since the movie only debuted in Japan this past weekend, reactions have been slim in trickling in, but some preliminary reactions:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/japanese-fans-react-ghost-shell-992255

Most fascinating part:

Yuki, a young office worker who watched the film at the same theater, also found it had more style than substance.

"It looked amazing. I think that was the best visuals they could have done in a live-action version," he said. "The story was a bit shallow, though; it didn't go deep into the themes of the anime. But it's a Hollywood version, so that's what you expect."

Yuki, who said he hadn't read the original manga, said Johansson was "probably the best choice" to play the lead character.

"I heard people in the U.S. wanted an Asian actress to play her," he said. "Would that be OK if she was Asian or Asian-American? Honestly, that would be worse, someone from another Asian country pretending to be Japanese. Better just to make the character white."

The Japanese apparently have a much, much, much more different take on identity politics than Asian Americans or any cyber Social Justice Warrior can ever dream of

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

I remember hearing the Japanese weren't too happy a few years ago, when that Geisha movie came out and the geisha was played by a Chinese actress.

 

[DrBo42]

Reactions depend on someone actually seeing it. Feel like there won't be many.

Semi-jokes aside the quoted reaction wasn't too surprising.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Thank God that one Japanese person said that this isn't an issue so that I can say, with confidence, that this isn't an issue. Fucking 'cyber Social Justice Warrior', am I right, OP? LMAO!!!

Spoiler

Please let everyone understand this is sarcasm

Its an interesting take though, funny how he immediately dislikes the idea of people of another Asian heritage playing the character tbh.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

I remember hearing the Japanese weren't too happy a few years ago, when that Geisha movie came out and the geisha was played by a Chinese actress.

Oh was that whats her face from Crouching Tiger?

Yeah there's an asian hierarchy. It'd be like getting a Mexican to play Abe Lincoln or something.

 

[Volimar]

I thought it was pretty good overall. Wasn't expecting much of a storyline so I guess I wasn't disappointed in that regard. The twist ending fell completely flat though.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I'm pretty sure most east asians know far more about our own pretty fucked up identity politics.

 

[Skittles]

white people confirmed to be better than asian actors for asian roles

Spoiler

dat racism from the police officer

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

This move annoyed nearly every camp. I don't think anyone - sjw or otherwise- was happy at such a break from the original story as evidenced by its abysmal box office return. At least hunger games was smart enough to rip off Battle Royals instead of just buying the Japanese name and pumping American school kids into it.

 

[Spaced Harrier]

Asian isn't a thing in Asia, same way European isn't a thing in Europe.

Not to say it's not thing at all but national identity is much, much stronger.

The issues surround the film for better or worse are American.

 

[Bishop89]

I thought the movie was great. Visuals & Score were ace, and I thought the section 9 characters were all fun.

Action was really well done too.

 

[Saya]

There are like two reactions from Japanese people in that article...

 

[Volimar]

Asian isn't a thing in Asia, same way European isn't a thing in Europe.

Not to say it's not thing at all but national identity is much, much stronger.

The issues surround the film for better or worse are American.

Wasn't there a lot of nationalism in the GITS series as well?

 

[Discotheque]

There are like two reactions from Japanese people in that article...

sounds like something a Cyber Social Justice Warrior would say

 

[pa22word]

Its an interesting take though, funny how he immediately dislikes the idea of people of another Asian heritage playing the character tbh.

As another poster pointed out, it's because he primarily sees himself as a Japanese Citizen and not "Asian".

We have the same confusion from people regarding Chinese wanting primarily Chinese Nationals in movies instead of asian americans in movies when that discussion pops up. For as nationalist as the US is it's strikingly odd that people don't understand this more intuitively, really.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I remember hearing the Japanese weren't too happy a few years ago, when that Geisha movie came out and the geisha was played by a Chinese actress.

I keep forgetting that book was written by a white dude. And he got sued by one of the Geisha in the story.

 

[Garruson]

It was a great film, visuals were fantastic, tone was great. Could have been a bit longer and expanded on themes, Scarlett was great.

I really enjoyed the film because I didn't give a fuck Scarlett was the lead actress.

 

[Replicant]

This move annoyed nearly every camp. I don't think anyone - sjw or otherwise- was happy at such a break from the original story as evidenced by its abysmal box office return. At least hunger games was smart enough to rip off Battle Royals instead of just buying the Japanese name and pumping American school kids into it.

I'd say as far as 'adaptation' goes, Hunger Games is one of the better ones out there. Not only it changed its theme a little bit (friendship gone wrong on BR into reality TV gone wrong on HG), HG looks a bit more into the society that encourages this kind of activity, something you don't see much in Battle Royale.

 

[ISOM]

As another poster pointed out, it's because he primarily sees himself as a Japanese Citizen and not "Asian".

We have the same confusion from people regarding Chinese wanting primarily Chinese Nationals in movies instead of asian americans in movies when that discussion pops up. For as nationalist as the US is it's strikingly odd that people don't understand this more intuitively, really.

Yeah Asian Americans themselves don't really intermix in the US at a social level much at least I don't think so.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

i can't get over SJW being used in serious context.

 

[Volimar]

It could always be worse. Remember when Madonna was Eva Peron? Man, people were pissed.

i can't get over SJW being used in serious context.

Whenever I read SJW in someone's argument, my eyes automatically unfocus, sparing me from having to read the rest of the post. It's the best online defense mechanism.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Also as an Asian i would think that it is kind of fucked up if the thinking is "Any East asian can do when we want a specifically Japanese character"

The issue speaks more about the limited roles available for Asian Americans in Hollywood.

 

[Volimar]

Also as an Asian i would think that it is kind of fucked up if the thinking is "Any East asian can do when we want a specifically Japanese character"

The issue speaks more about the limited roles available for Asian Americans in Hollywood.

I think it speaks more at people in the west being so unable to tell the different nationalities apart that they just assume they're interchangeable.

 

[Laieon]

Asian isn't a thing in Asia, same way European isn't a thing in Europe.

Not to say it's not thing at all but national identity is much, much stronger.

The issues surround the film for better or worse are American.

Yep, this is completely accurate.

I think it speaks more at people in the west being so unable to tell the different nationalities apart that they just assume they're interchangeable.

Eh, that's not just the west though. I've been living in Korea for the past 3 years. If I showed my students a picture of a white person from the US, a white person from the UK, a white person from Russia, a white person from Norway, etc..., they would probably have just as much a problem identifying where each of those people are from as most people in the west would with Asia.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

It's always pretty amazing to be reminded of just how racist some Asians are against each other.

Still not sure if I will go see it now that it's out here. It seems about in line with my expectations but I may just wait for the bluray.

Part of me wonders what really would have been the reaction if it starred an Asian actress from day 1.

 

[spekkeh]

I understand the sentiment. As a Dutchman every now and then we get represented in Hollywood films by Germans or even Russians. I'd much rather an American/Canadian like Mike Myers mockingly impersonatesh ush wish a bad akshent, then be grossly misrepresented by people who are kinda blond and ethnic like us. Like the second feels more racist than the first. At least if they cast Scarlet Johansson you know they put in money and therefore effort into your property so that's better than some generic Asian.

 

[Volimar]

I understand the sentiment. As a Dutchman every now and then we get represented in Hollywood films by Germans or even Russians. I'd much rather an American/Canadian like Mike Myers mockingly impersonatesh ush wish a bad akshent, then be grossly misrepresented by people who are kinda blond and ethnic like us. Like the second feels more racist than the first. At least if they cast Scarlet Johansson you know they put in money into your property so that's better than some generic Asian.

Pretty much every country in Europe has been portrayed by Brits in American films.

 

[OSHAN]

I thought this review by Walter Chaw was interesting:

http://www.filmfreakcentral.net/ffc/2017/04/ghost-in-the-shell-2017.html

I love Oshii's Ghost in the Shell. I love its sequel, subtitled Innocence, more. It was one of my favourite films of that year and the most interesting take on the topic of machine identity since Blade Runner--which was, of course, itself the key visual touchpoint for this property. Its genealogy is complicated, right? There's an extraordinary amount of cultural osmosis between the U.S. and Japan. It seems silly to ascribe a definitive cultural specificity to a piece as overtly elastic as this. Its genesis is a commentary on diffusion. This Ghost in the Shell is that tune translated from English to Japanese back to English again. Making it a story about a young woman discovering strength in herself is every Disney Princess's progression. It's the most familiar skeleton on which to hang this foreign flesh, The casting of Johansson wasn't the only concession the filmmakers allowed to get the movie made, to its detriment. I am stunned by this line from Yoshida's essay: "Maybe I don't imagine anyone as Motoko other than myself; maybe I'm not alone in that feeling," because it crystallizes, savagely, emotionally, the essential issue of representation in Western culture for someone like me who is more culturally American than almost any of my white friends, but who sees almost no representation of anyone who looks like me in any of the stuff on which I subsist and rely in large part for my formative identity. I always wanted cinema to make me feel better about the pain of "otherness" I experienced as a child--and still do now and again, when criticism of my criticism leads people to call me "chinky" and infer that my opinions are guided by anything other than an upbringing in rural Colorado where I thought I was white whenever, and for as long as, I could. Film can't do that, alas. I know because I've asked it to.

 

[Chuckie]

Oh was that whats her face from Crouching Tiger?

Yeah there's an asian hierarchy. It'd be like getting a Mexican to play Abe Lincoln or something.

Zhang Ziyi and Michelle Yeoh.

You know what is worst than getting a Mexican to play Abe?

Getting an American to play a Dutch girl!

And guess who was willing to do just that....

 

[nelsonroyale]

Yep, this is completely accurate.



Eh, that's not just the west though. I've been living in Korea for the past 3 years. If I showed my students a picture of a white person from the US, a white person from the UK, a white person from Russia, a white person from Norway, etc..., they would probably have just as much a problem identifying where each of those people are from as most people in the west would with Asia.

...Most Indians don't seem to have a very favourable view of any of the countries, according to that. Also, Japanese view India most favourably out of those...

 

[Izuna]

This thread will be a catalyst to some dumb posts.

To kick start you guys off, Asian racism is on a whole other level and is very real.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Whenever I read SJW in someone's argument, my eyes automatically unfocus, sparing me from having to read the rest of the post. It's the best online defense mechanism.

Same, worst is my brother uses it.

 

[Volimar]

Part of me wonders what really would have been the reaction if it starred an Asian actress from day 1.

We'd be wishing some studio would pick it up. GITS is hugely popular.....in its niche. Making a niche film with no bankable name to sell it to the general public would have been difficult. Not impossible I guess, but probably not with the budget it got. It's kind of neither here nor there I guess now that it has tanked at the BO.

 

[Chuckie]

I understand the sentiment. As a Dutchman every now and then we get represented in Hollywood films by Germans or even Russians. I'd much rather an American/Canadian like Mike Myers mockingly impersonatesh ush wish a bad akshent, then be grossly misrepresented by people who are kinda blond and ethnic like us. Like the second feels more racist than the first. At least if they cast Scarlet Johansson you know they put in money and therefore effort into your property so that's better than some generic Asian.

To be fair....it also works the other way around.

Famke Janssen as the Russian Xenia Onotopp (Goldeneye)

Jeroen Krabbe as a Russian general (The Living Daylights)

Antonie Kamerling as a german soldier (Exorcist: The Beginning)

 

[CaviarMeths]

This move annoyed nearly every camp. I don't think anyone - sjw or otherwise- was happy at such a break from the original story as evidenced by its abysmal box office return. At least hunger games was smart enough to rip off Battle Royals instead of just buying the Japanese name and pumping American school kids into it.

This has no basis in reality. It's just something cool to say if you want to humblebrag about having watched a fairly well-known subtitled movie (and not even a particularly good one).

 

[Fuu]

This move annoyed nearly every camp. I don't think anyone - sjw or otherwise- was happy at such a break from the original story as evidenced by its abysmal box office return. At least hunger games was smart enough to rip off Battle Royals instead of just buying the Japanese name and pumping American school kids into it.

The Hunger Games movies are based on a completely different novel though. Unless you're talking about the novels ripping of BR, but in that case a lot of movies/books have ripped off GitS too, and a ton other Japanese media.

You can bet that if the Hunger Games novels didn't exist someone would have eventually bought the rights for an American adaptation of Battle Royale.

 

[Volimar]

The Hunger Games movies are based on a completely different novel though.

You can bet that if the Hunger Games novels didn't exist someone would have eventually bought the rights for an American adaptation of Battle Royale.

I'm not a huge fan of the films, but the Hunger Games movies have a lot more going on than the teenagers killing each other parts. I could definitely see Battle Royale being an inspiration, but calling it a rip off seems a bit reductive.

 

[shintoki]

Oh was that whats her face from Crouching Tiger?

Yeah there's an asian hierarchy. It'd be like getting a Mexican to play Abe Lincoln or something.

I believe it was Chu talking about Rich Crazy Asians, where in comparison to white or black actors. We're they don't really have to worry about where they came from. You can have an Englishman play Lincoln, A German man play a Southern Slave holder, An American play and Irish Immigrant, an Australian man play a Scot, etc. They have to consider what type of Asian plays who.

 

[Weiss]

You know, I wonder how many of us would have been placated if a Chinese or Korean actress were chosen for this Japanese character.

I mean, Americans play Europeans and vice versa all the time, but I don't know if that's the same thing.

 

[whatsinaname]

Wonder what the take on an all Japanese cast for the Full Metal Alchemist live action movie is.

 

[gogogow]

"Japanese fans reacts", two people.....lol.

But is it really surprising though that (some) Japanese people didn't mind Scarjo playing the major? They love American culture over there, no?

 

[wetwired]

I've not seen this version and I haven't seen the old one in years so my memory is fuzzy but isn't her

Spoiler

consciousness inhabiting another, manufactured body?

If that is the case how is the argument of white washing even relevant? Isn't that entirely the point?

Spoiler

It's not her original body and hence could literally be any appearance?

 

[ReplacementPelican]

As another poster pointed out, it's because he primarily sees himself as a Japanese Citizen and not "Asian".

We have the same confusion from people regarding Chinese wanting primarily Chinese Nationals in movies instead of asian americans in movies when that discussion pops up. For as nationalist as the US is it's strikingly odd that people don't understand this more intuitively, really.

Yeah, I'm British and had to watch Mel Gibson play Braveheart and I wasn't horrified because he was American; I was horrified because he was Mel Gibson.

Also I'm not American so maybe that helps you somewhat. I mean, I don't really see the functional difference in casting a white woman, an American or someone from a different Asian country but the person interviewed seemed to have no issue with the former. I'm not surprised that a Japanese person doesn't consider themselves 'Asian' as a monolithic culture or people, that would be dumb, I'm surprised he's fine with the 'white-washing' but not the latter two things which he does have an issue with.

i can't get over SJW being used in serious context.

Whenever I read SJW in someone's argument, my eyes automatically unfocus, sparing me from having to read the rest of the post. It's the best online defense mechanism.

I do the same thing as well, its just too loaded a term to take anyone seriously if they use it as you know the agenda of people who use it and likely know where their argument is actually leading which, in this case, seems to be 'Japanese person thinks its fine - claims of white-washing being bad disproven.'

 

[Fuu]

I'm not a huge fan of the films, but the Hunger Games movies have a lot more going on than the teenagers killing each other parts. I could definitely see Battle Royale being an inspiration, but calling it a rip off seems a bit reductive.

yeah, I agree. It doesn't really have a reason to be involved in a discussion regarding Hollywood adaptations of anime/manga.

 

[Antiwhippy]

...Most Indians don't seem to have a very favourable view of any of the countries, according to that. Also, Japanese view India most favourably out of those...

They're far enough to not be part of many historical wars in that region.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

You know, I wonder how many of us would have been placated if a Chinese or Korean actress were chosen for this Japanese character.

I mean, Americans play Europeans and vice versa all the time, but I don't know if that's the same thing.

Probably not but not because the actor isn't Japanese. On Neogaf at least because it is an American Film and we preferred the lead was given to an Asian-American as they are severely under represented in film. It's similar case as to why some are annoyed when Hollywood places a Native Chinese actor in a film as opposed to Asian-American in an American produced film.

 

[Volimar]

I've not seen this version and I haven't seen the old one in years so my memory is fuzzy but isn't her

Spoiler

consciousness inhabiting another, manufactured body?

If that is the case how is the argument of white washing even relevant? Isn't that entirely the point?

Spoiler

It's not her original body and hence could literally be any appearance?

You're technically correct, but people are (rightly) seeing through it as a way to try to handwave away the controversy.

 

[spekkeh]

To be fair....it also works the other way around.

Famke Janssen as the Russian Xenia Onotopp (Goldeneye)

Jeroen Krabbe as a Russian general (The Living Daylights)

Antonie Kamerling as a german soldier (Exorcist: The Beginning)

Haha touché.

(Krabbe is the only one excused here because it was from before the collapse of the Berlin Wall).

 

[Forkball]

i can't get over SJW being used in serious context.

Or the word "cyber."

 

[Volimar]

Or the word "cyber."

Whenever a politician uses it. "We must get better at cyber."