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Jason Scheier on DEI Consultants: "Too Much Diversity isnt the problem"
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
What the fuck even means "too much diversity", like the term makes no fucking sense. We achieved already, give it a break. There are black creator game, successful too, there are successful Slavic, Asian games, there are trans related games, depression related games, etc.
UE is free, Unity is free, everyone can create games. Boom utopia achieved
Can we please move on, from this? Especially moved from USA centric view on what diversity is, etc?
I was on board, but nowadays its just political signalling, it has no bearing on what the real world does and what real world is
UE is free, Unity is free, everyone can create games. Boom utopia achieved
Can we please move on, from this? Especially moved from USA centric view on what diversity is, etc?
I was on board, but nowadays its just political signalling, it has no bearing on what the real world does and what real world is
Aenima
Member
Exactly. Most western devs are trying to force the players to accept what they do or GTFO. They make games for themselves not the players. Meanwhile in Asia you have a total different aproach where devs always have the players in mind. And we end getting alot of asian game focus on delivering a fun to play experience. Some might not be able to deliver that but you can see where the focus was placed while making the game.
This ppl forget where the actual money comes from. Just need to take a look at the trailers of all this "games for modern audiences" and see that pretty much all of them have a negative like to dislike ratio. So my question is, how many more studios will need to shut down untill they understand they need to make games for gamers and not to push they political agendas?
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Wildebeest
Member
Does he think that corporations are more likely to use consultancy firms to increase their employees welfare and reduce their workload, or to waste their time and stress them out by humiliating them?
Braag
Member
I too like to dig holes and then pretend like everything's fine when I can't climb out of them.
As I've said before, there's a very big difference between diversity and forced diversity. The latter doesn't feel genuine, it feels like pandering and tries too hard to appeal to a certain audience.
I'm not white and even I feel annoyed by it, a multi-billion dollar corporation trying to pander towards me in the sake of me buying their product.
If diversity is done right and in a way that the developers actually visioned the game to be, then it can be great. But when you have a DEI company telling them "hey this character needs to be race/gender swapped" then it shows and most player see through the bullshit. It's why no one complained about Overwatch's diverse cast, yet everyone hates Concord's cast. Diversity doesn't mean "alienate white people out of the game" either.
As I've said before, there's a very big difference between diversity and forced diversity. The latter doesn't feel genuine, it feels like pandering and tries too hard to appeal to a certain audience.
I'm not white and even I feel annoyed by it, a multi-billion dollar corporation trying to pander towards me in the sake of me buying their product.
If diversity is done right and in a way that the developers actually visioned the game to be, then it can be great. But when you have a DEI company telling them "hey this character needs to be race/gender swapped" then it shows and most player see through the bullshit. It's why no one complained about Overwatch's diverse cast, yet everyone hates Concord's cast. Diversity doesn't mean "alienate white people out of the game" either.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
If you wanna see the most blatant pandering ever, this month is hard to beat. Pride month. Go check out Linkedin and see how many companies adjust their logo rainbow. Then when July comes around they change it back.
My old company did that and we did absolutely zero support for Pride month or LGTQ groups. It's was literally just a logo swap for a month. Probably took the marketing assistant 5 minutes to create it and upload it.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Divsertiy isn't an issue as long as it makes sense and it's organic.
DEI consultancy groups are however a problem.
My main issue with them is that they will advise (dictate) the story and the characters to make the game more diverse. Imagine writing a story for months only for SBI to come in and rip it apart because it doesn't include X group or people or some dialogue is "problematic".
They're also politically biased, which is another massive issue as they'll ensure that their own ideologies are put into games.
DEI consultancy groups are however a problem.
My main issue with them is that they will advise (dictate) the story and the characters to make the game more diverse. Imagine writing a story for months only for SBI to come in and rip it apart because it doesn't include X group or people or some dialogue is "problematic".
They're also politically biased, which is another massive issue as they'll ensure that their own ideologies are put into games.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I suppose Jason Shreier might be right, but it's hard not to notice all these abhorrent games coming out with massive bloated development teams full of virtue signaling xirs and high priced diversity consultants that happen to be the same people that have turned books, movies, and TV shows into ironically homogenous mush.
Resources are finite, and you cannot have two masters. If your primary goal is expanding DEI, it's not making a great product. We've seen too many examples of this across entire industries for it to be refuted by whiny screeching from Schreier types.
Resources are finite, and you cannot have two masters. If your primary goal is expanding DEI, it's not making a great product. We've seen too many examples of this across entire industries for it to be refuted by whiny screeching from Schreier types.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
You don't have to believe anything, the fracture is happening before our eyes. They are on life support thanks to the corporations pushing this: Black Rock, Vangard, and Gubernamental agencies.
These companies are not living on customers' money anymore and that's not even their goal.
captainnapalm
Member
This thread title does make the same mistake that a lot of people make: Thinking that this is just about consultancy groups like Sweet Baby. It's actually a much deeper problem than that because DEI culture and hiring practices are already present at all these studios without the need for any consultancy groups. And it's not just game studios, but most of the corporate world and academia. These consultancy groups just saw a business opportunity precisely because there's already so much of this shit going around.
Just recently a few major American universities finally ditched diversity pledges which were like ideological tests every candidate has to pass to get hired - but most still have them. You basically have to put down on paper that you believe all the same insane things they do about race, sex and gender and then you get the job. And they're common in corporate settings too.
Maybe the gaming world can still stick its head in the sand about this stuff, but look at what's happened to Disney. And Schreier can deny this stuff all he wants - his own profession is dying for many of the same reasons.
Just recently a few major American universities finally ditched diversity pledges which were like ideological tests every candidate has to pass to get hired - but most still have them. You basically have to put down on paper that you believe all the same insane things they do about race, sex and gender and then you get the job. And they're common in corporate settings too.
Maybe the gaming world can still stick its head in the sand about this stuff, but look at what's happened to Disney. And Schreier can deny this stuff all he wants - his own profession is dying for many of the same reasons.
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Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Games Workshop uses Blackrock and Vanguard. Sadly Warhammer 40,000 is heading that way too.
Pretty much every "geek" IP has gone woke and it just gets worse.
Scotty W
Banned
Dei has crippled the movie industry in terms of quality, and has paralyzed academia. It is a cancer. If you have cancer, you don’t treat it like a 1% problem, you utterly destroy it before it spreads.
BigBeauford
Member
The gaslighting and bastardization of this whole thing continues. The movement was to raise awareness that the gaming industry is being infected by consultants who are smothering creativity with their agenda. Then with a little digging, it was found that said consultants despise their primary customers.
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PeteBull
Member
Now u guys see how most of those devs/pubs/journos think in their woke buble, unfortunately for them all the rainbow/purple crowd is tiny% of players, and they dont buy games, which means tons of games bomb/studios closing.
Somehow when nintendo makes new mario or zelda they dont lead with alphabet/transformers agenda, but innovation/quality/fun gameplay of the game, and guess what- their games sell gangsbusters.
Somehow when nintendo makes new mario or zelda they dont lead with alphabet/transformers agenda, but innovation/quality/fun gameplay of the game, and guess what- their games sell gangsbusters.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Day of the Tentacle would like a word with you
Scotty W
Banned
Gay Race Communism
UnravelKatharsis
Member
"Accomplished journalist Jason Schreier" has an opinion.
Werewolf Jones
Member
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Perhaps America is the problem?
France just singlehandedly stole the Xbox show.
France just singlehandedly stole the Xbox show.
Melfice7
Member
It's the same as when a big company publishes your game, the development and marketing costs are covered, so theres really no big risk for the developer even if it flops
In this case its blackrock and others paying if DEI is according to the guidelines, so why bother trying to make a good game and risk flopping if you can make a woke game and get guaranteed money?
PeteBull
Member
I can give u recent example of "too much diversity", lets check newest AC where they had to put black non binary guy as protagonist, imagine the reverse- AC that is playing in some deep african country, and it has white male or asian looking protagonist and give him an afro on top , heads would be falling left and right ;D
Its super out of place
Its super out of place
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March Climber
Member
What is the best way that a 10 year veteran developer (who happens to be trans) could naturally acquire a lead role position at a studio, so that there’s no perceived corporate agenda at play?
This is a genuine question.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
So if that's the case, then "go woke, go broke" is indeed a fallacy. In fact it seems like going woke is doing better for all these companies thanks to Blackrock, etc.
poodaddy
Member
"Annoying fuckin prick addicted to his own flatulence and the sound of his voice" has an opinion.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Diversity in and of itself isn't the problem as much as it's forced DEI stuff. I don't care if a protagonist is male or female and I don't care what race the character is or what their pronouns are. I think most people won't care about the race or gender of characters in a game, but I can accept that it can help some people better relate to games. As long as it's organic it's completely fine.
When developers go out of their way to make sure we know what the pronouns and sexual preferences of characters are, especially in games where those things aren't relevant, it becomes tiresome and looks like the point is trying to meet a quota more than making a fun game. I can see how it could be important to a game where characters form close interpersonal relationships and those things affect relationship dynamics and the outcome of the game. But in a game like a hero shooter where all you do is run around and shoot other characters there's really no reason to explore or include gender identity because bullets don't care about any of that.
When developers go out of their way to make sure we know what the pronouns and sexual preferences of characters are, especially in games where those things aren't relevant, it becomes tiresome and looks like the point is trying to meet a quota more than making a fun game. I can see how it could be important to a game where characters form close interpersonal relationships and those things affect relationship dynamics and the outcome of the game. But in a game like a hero shooter where all you do is run around and shoot other characters there's really no reason to explore or include gender identity because bullets don't care about any of that.
Kacho
Gold Member
Diversity, equity and inclusion, but this is typically limited to women and black people. This is actively being pushed by most companies these days, which is why we’re seeing an over abundance of “diversity” all the sudden. It’s more about forcing change rather than letting it happen organically.
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LectureMaster
Member
My man, if you don't know what DEI is, that means you live in a good society.
As opposed to what, forced exclusion? There can't be an up without a down.
Granted,I do think there can be problems within a solution,but if shit worked how it's supposed to,there shouldn't be problems unless a person or group are being babies.
Nydius
Member
Scherier writes whatever keeps him in the good graces of the industry because he doesn’t want to lose access and/or clout. To me, that makes him a shill, the opposite of a journalist.
True journalism is speaking truth to power, not kowtowing to the people who you’re supposed to be covering. He’s a mouthpiece for the industry, not an independent observer of the industry.
True journalism is speaking truth to power, not kowtowing to the people who you’re supposed to be covering. He’s a mouthpiece for the industry, not an independent observer of the industry.
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Melfice7
Member
which is why it keeps happening no matter how many flops they get, be it in games/movies/shows...
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And it totally doesn't take the passion and soul out of the games, which is one of the main things lacking compared to the past. When you have to design games around checkboxes now instead of your heartfelt ideas.
We are seeing it first hand out of Hollywood as well.
Everything the socio-political agenda touches, turns to shit.
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Dr. Wilkinson
Gold Member
He's literally one of the few last surviving legitimate journalists left, exclusively covering games. I've rarely, if ever, had an issue with him. Not sure what your beef is.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
That makes sense.
Thank you explaining that to me without being condescending or trying to bait me.
It sucks that this seems to be a losing battle. It's only going to get worse.
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Gambit2483
Member
DEI is absolutely ruining Western gaming. It feels Every game features a female lead that is most likely gay or a person of color. That makes every (Western) game feel too homogenized and designed by committee. Nothing feels like it was just made to be fun with interesting gameplay ideas. Everything feels like it is litterally just trying to shove "women are strong" and "look at our representation" agendas down the gamers throat.
That is true to some extent,but those longer cycles could be innovative because the developers had enough time to iron out any bugs,at least in theory.
Nydius
Member
See my above post. Just because he’s run a few post-mortems of high profile flops doesn’t make him a “journalist”. A journalist doesn’t regurgitate industry talking points out of fear of losing access.
Dr. Wilkinson
Gold Member
Yes, obviously.
He's a journalist in absolutely every sense of the word. He's even done something most "journalists" covering games in the modern day don't have, *actual journalism degree*. You can dislike him all you want, but there is no arguing his credentials. The dude's a published author, as well. His entire career is journalism, research, reporting & writing.
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