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[Ragingnight]

Its not 3k for the big games. Last year capcom and NRS put a lot of money into SF4, Marvel, MK9 and SFxT.

3k for the other games I can believe.

But even then its still small. Without those sponsor's pot bonus, the pot would be immensely smaller.

 

[smurfx]

jaxel and spooky are my fav streamers. wish more people watched the break.

 

[Chindogg]

You could just tell me.

EVO pays out top 3: 70, 30, 10 for every game. They like that system and don't change. IIRC AE winner was paid over $7000. This $3000 number is either a misinformed rumor or a total fabrication. I don't know Jaxel personally but his reputation across the community for stirring up drama is very well known.

That said, some of his points should be looked at. However he's painting everyone with an exceptionally wide brush and that's very dangerous for the progression of this community. I know for a fact that Keits, Jebailey, and Shinblanka are not making massive profits from their events. The allegation that everyone in the "Capcom FGC" (another baseless division that only means to further create us vs them factionism and solves nothing) is some sort of scumbag is just straight out slander.

Also, its probably a good idea to outline a contract for payment before performing any work like every other professional streamer available. Unfortunately, it sounds less like people being greedy and more like an individual failing to define proper compensation before the job's completion.

 

[Busaiku]

EVO pays out top 3: 70, 30, 10 for every game. They like that system and don't change. IIRC AE winner was paid over $7000. This $3000 number is either a misinformed rumor or a total fabrication. I don't know Jaxel personally but his reputation across the community for stirring up drama is very well known.

If he's talking about a tournament with 500 entrants, like Soul Calibur (which he's probably talking about), he's not wrong at all.

 

[SolarPowered]

A lot of people are doing the same thing. "Stop acting soft" and "that's something a female does" is what I'm seeing.

Sounds like the normal response you'd expect from casual "fgc" observers.

It's about a year too late for that.

oh you

 

[0xCA2]

You only ever hear awful stories about the FGC. Is there anything to like?

This was my first reaction to this, be it wrong or right.

 

[Chindogg]

If he's talking about a tournament with 500 entrants, like Soul Calibur (which he's probably talking about), he's not wrong at all.

$3000 for a 500 man tournament that has no pot bonuses or anything else is not great but not terrible either. Its almost half of what AE makes (which has twice as many entrants.) Sounds perfectly sound.

That said, there needs to be way better sponsorships for these events across the board to increase payouts. MLG's not gonna cut it. They'll throw money out until they can get a Capcom game and then they'll drop every other fighter off the map. They did it with KoF, they did it with Soul Calibur, they did it with Tekken, they'll do it with everyone else. MLG as an answer is just ill advised.

You only ever hear awful stories about the FGC. Is there anything to like?

There's a lot to like from this community. We've had so many tragedies and tough times happen to members of all factions and the community overall has helped as many as possible. For those of you who don't know, I lost my job back in March. It's been exceptionally rough to pay my bills on my fiance's paycheck and my unemployment. A few weeks ago, we found out our cat had a cracked tooth and an infection from that tooth that climbed up into his nasal cavity. The surgery was over $300 and we just couldn't afford it. I swallowed my pride and asked the community for help. Within 10min I had more than enough to cover the surgery, a new cat tree, and over 4 months worth of food for my cat. DJ Huoshen's donation alone covered the surgery.

That's what makes the community great. Despite all the bullshit drama that people try to constantly pin on the community as a whole, the reality is that everyone's a huge family that takes care of each other. That's the real FGC, not this childish watercooler drama that only select individuals continue to stir up.

 

[kick51]

As for Wiz "not making much" on EVO, I'm not sure I buy that, but I'm not certain. I wouldn't be shocked if some money is kept under the table. venue fees are supposed to cover costs of a place such as equipment.

that was corroborated by James Chen, who has been in on planning of Evo a lot before. he was pretty staunch about it being bullshit that they are making bags of money on Evo. Seems like a trustworthy guy.

 

[alstein]

If he's talking about a tournament with 500 entrants, like Soul Calibur (which he's probably talking about), he's not wrong at all.

Which is why the 3K figure shouldn't be shocked or something anyone is worked up over. That's what winning a 500 man tourney should get you.

Keits and Jebailey aren't the folks Jaxel is complaining about. FR is a quality event, and I've heard much more good than bad about UFGT/CEO.


There's a reason Sega Cup was considered more prestigious than Evo for VF players in the US. We need more companies to sponsor events outside of Evo.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

$3000 for a 500 man tournament that has no pot bonuses or anything else is not great but not terrible either. Its almost half of what AE makes (which has twice as many entrants.) Sounds perfectly sound.

That said, there needs to be way better sponsorships for these events across the board to increase payouts. MLG's not gonna cut it. They'll throw money out until they can get a Capcom game and then they'll drop every other fighter off the map. They did it with KoF, they did it with Soul Calibur, they did it with Tekken, they'll do it with everyone else. MLG as an answer is just ill advised.

MLG dropped KOF because no one was showing up for it.

 

[Busaiku]

KOF had like 20 people when they were getting massive pots, of course they would drop it.
Dunno about SC and TTT2, but I assume it's the same deal.

 

[Jaxel]

EVO pays out top 3: 70, 30, 10 for every game. They like that system and don't change. IIRC AE winner was paid over $7000. This $3000 number is either a misinformed rumor or a total fabrication. I don't know Jaxel personally but his reputation across the community for stirring up drama is very well known.

Like I said, the numbers I have are from "what I heard". I also heard that they paid top 8 at EVO, not top 3.

Also, as for my "reputation" for stirring up drama, you're clearly going back to the dealings we in 2009 when I was trying to defend the Soulcalibur community that CLEARLY got shafted by the NVGA where DancingFighterG misappropriated funds and could not give us the accounting that we were promised.

All this "drama" can be found on this thread: http://8wayrun.com/threads/nationals-what-went-right-wrong.3345/ (it was actually two threads that got merged, so it may be hard to follow at first) It really gets good when I start posting factual numbers and theoretical accounting.

 

[alstein]

KOF had like 20 people when they were getting massive pots, of course they would drop it.
Dunno about SC and TTT2, but I assume it's the same deal.

Pretty much. MLG gave tons of space to an event that wasn't drawing tons of money. They were better off with more DOTA/LOL/Starcraft. Some of that was MLG, some of that was FGC just not showing up.

Ultimately, a community can't trust outsiders to carry it- they have to be able to carry it themselves.

Curious why Jaxel doesn't get into TO'ing instead of just streaming, seems like he has a plan to do it better- why not try it- that's one way to not have to deal with the bullshit- they can't screw you if you're running your own show.

 

[Face it Tiger..]

$3000 for a 500 man tournament that has no pot bonuses or anything else is not great but not terrible either. Its almost half of what AE makes (which has twice as many entrants.) Sounds perfectly sound.

That said, there needs to be way better sponsorships for these events across the board to increase payouts. MLG's not gonna cut it. They'll throw money out until they can get a Capcom game and then they'll drop every other fighter off the map. They did it with KoF, they did it with Soul Calibur, they did it with Tekken, they'll do it with everyone else. MLG as an answer is just ill advised.



There's a lot to like from this community. We've had so many tragedies and tough times happen to members of all factions and the community overall has helped as many as possible. For those of you who don't know, I lost my job back in March. It's been exceptionally rough to pay my bills on my fiance's paycheck and my unemployment. A few weeks ago, we found out our cat had a cracked tooth and an infection from that tooth that climbed up into his nasal cavity. The surgery was over $300 and we just couldn't afford it. I swallowed my pride and asked the community for help. Within 10min I had more than enough to cover the surgery, a new cat tree, and over 4 months worth of food for my cat. DJ Huoshen's donation alone covered the surgery.

That's what makes the community great. Despite all the bullshit drama that people try to constantly pin on the community as a whole, the reality is that everyone's a huge family that takes care of each other. That's the real FGC, not this childish watercooler drama that only select individuals continue to stir up.

Like I said, the numbers I have are from "what I heard". I also heard that they paid top 8 at EVO, not top 3.

Also, as for my "reputation" for stirring up drama, you're clearly going back to the dealings we in 2009 when I was trying to defend the Soulcalibur community that CLEARLY got shafted by the NVGA where DancingFighterG misappropriated funds and could not give us the accounting that we were promised.

All this "drama" can be found on this thread: http://8wayrun.com/threads/nationals-what-went-right-wrong.3345/ (it was actually two threads that got merged, so it may be hard to follow at first) It really gets good when I start posting factual numbers and theoretical accounting.

This is all very.. schway.

 

[Karsticles]

Jaxel, thank you for sharing your experiences. I think we could all benefit from less secrecy about these matters.

 

[Passive Assassin]

$3000 for a 500 man tournament that has no pot bonuses or anything else is not great but not terrible either. Its almost half of what AE makes (which has twice as many entrants.) Sounds perfectly sound.

That said, there needs to be way better sponsorships for these events across the board to increase payouts. MLG's not gonna cut it. They'll throw money out until they can get a Capcom game and then they'll drop every other fighter off the map. They did it with KoF, they did it with Soul Calibur, they did it with Tekken, they'll do it with everyone else. MLG as an answer is just ill advised.



There's a lot to like from this community. We've had so many tragedies and tough times happen to members of all factions and the community overall has helped as many as possible. For those of you who don't know, I lost my job back in March. It's been exceptionally rough to pay my bills on my fiance's paycheck and my unemployment. A few weeks ago, we found out our cat had a cracked tooth and an infection from that tooth that climbed up into his nasal cavity. The surgery was over $300 and we just couldn't afford it. I swallowed my pride and asked the community for help. Within 10min I had more than enough to cover the surgery, a new cat tree, and over 4 months worth of food for my cat. DJ Huoshen's donation alone covered the surgery.

That's what makes the community great. Despite all the bullshit drama that people try to constantly pin on the community as a whole, the reality is that everyone's a huge family that takes care of each other. That's the real FGC, not this childish watercooler drama that only select individuals continue to stir up.

Best EX Whiteboy!

 

["God's Beard!"]

I would like to hear more from both sides, and when the dust settles if this puts the FGC in a negative light then too bad. You need to build awareness to create positive change and I think most players want to build the community. I don't want it to stagnate again.

 

[Jaxel]

Actually, I think I'm confusing Chindogg with Chingachook and they are not the same person... sorry about that.

 

[FlyFaster]

I was (am still but not active) member of SRK for years. But their shit got out of control with all the audio-autoplay-popup-screencovering-ads on the site and the blind hatred of the community of the evil of "esports"

There was this thread, which was quickly shut down down by one of the Cannons.

MLG Stream Sets a Dangerous Precedent

HAV, one of the few great "OG" posters on SRK who gets it had this to say during all of it which is somewhat relevant.

Dude, the FGC itself is ALREADY trying to become ESPN.

Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, but there is WAY more censorship going on now, than in the past. Fucking Alex Valle is a nice guy now! Alex Valle was just a COACH on a show. There was a time (not too long ago) when coaching from Valle would have been "step your shit up scrub", or "go play on the other machine. You're not built for this".

If you don't think we've already lost a ton of our identity, and people in position of influence aren't DYING to get rid of more of it, you're insane.

One of the MAJOR pillars of the scene was an every-man-for-themselves mantra, and an extremely abrasive stance on newcomers. New guys were cool, as long as they were willing to deal with the harsh nature of the scene. Nobody would help you, unless you showed impressive desire to help yourself first. No special treatment. No coddling. Jump in the ring with the pitbulls, or fuck off if you're scared. That's gone.

To me, that WAS the scene... well, along with racism and sexism that wasn't necessary at all, but even that was kinda cool, in so much as it was REAL. The FGC used to be so organic. So honest. The incredible diversity, obviously gave way to uglier points, but that was seemingly offset by the simple purity of the meritocracy that was our scene. Yeah, you had people saying racist shit... but whether you liked Japanese players or not, when Bas came and beat our ass in Alpha 3, you had to respect it. You could hate Black people, but when Sanford's Sentinel was stomping on your head, you couldn't do shit but appreciate the fact that Black people dance better than you. Sexism was around, but if some girl came around and beat all of our asses, that would have given way to sheer respect as well. Not coming out in favor of bigotry... I AM coming out in favor of honesty though, and harmless fun. VERY few people are in this scene popping off with racist/sexist comments that they are REALLY serious about

But now everything has the cater to that most worthless generation of kids born in the 90's, that had their mothers peel the crust off of their sandwiches until their 21st birthdays. The most sensitive, worthless fucks ever in life. ZERO appreciate for excellence, since they came up in the everyone-gets-a-trophy world, and they've been afforded respect and adulation they never had to earn. I miss the meritocracy. If you won, you earned respect. That still happens, but it used to be the ONLY way. Now, if you come up with a catch phrase, a dance.. or you have some prop to use in a planned victory celebration, you're the shit. If you look like Nick Cage, and make videos saying obvious shit (despite the fact that you don't even compete), you're the shit. Players come up with on-screen personalities... players have become ENTIRELY different people, because of the attention... shit is NOT the same, already. It just isn't.

We sold out so much of ourselves, to make the scene more accessible for the most pussified generation of kids to ever walk the Earth. This is just a fact. We sold out, to attract pussies (that won't turn to winners, ever), to get numbers up, so we could add $1K to the pot. We sold out to get "sponsors" that don't actually give anybody any actual money. This is what we've ALREADY done. Trying to cling to what's left now is silly. It's already gone. Bring on MLG.

I agree with him.

I also agree with Jaxel -- these guys are so caught up in keeping the pennies they are earning they don't want players to find out that there could potentially be real money to be earned in other formats, namely "esports". There is a backlash against it so they can keep the money flowing to them and keep things the way they are.

anyway, FUCK SRK. I stopped going their about a year ago and don't plan on going back. They don't even have the strangle hold on good info anymore since Youtube has blown up in the intervening years since I joined, any kind of info you could possibly want you can find elsewhere.

 

[Amagon]

The stream monsters were right... the Illuminati IS keeping the FGC down.

And water is wet. What else is new?

 

[Chindogg]

Actually, I think I'm confusing Chindogg with Chingachook and they are not the same person... sorry about that.

No worries, I have no quarrel with you personally. Hell I plugged your site when I did Injustice commentary at UFGT. I just want facts properly represented when a whole new thread about an entire community is represented by a few select individuals who allegedly wronged you.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

For it to avoid stagnation, public statements need to be based on facts, not rumors and gossip. Jaxel himself said that the $3000 number was from what he heard, not what he knew.

Which, through reading comprehension, is read as a rumor and not a fact.

 

[Immortal Technique]

I can't believe anybody could read the OP and ask whether it's worthy of its own thread. HUH? Eh... maybe they didn't read it. TLDR and all that.

 

[Chindogg]

Which, through reading comprehension, is read as a rumor and not a fact.

Then he further equates select individuals as the "Capcom FGC." Not exactly accurate.

 

[SolarPowered]

I edited a bit and added that the mainstream press doesn't really pick up on the good stuff, whether it's FGC or other scenes.

For example, I had no idea that speedrun marathons pull in serious charity donation cash on a regular basis. But I'm sure if a speedrunner farted the wrong way, a kotaku writer would be there to record it.

Screw them

GAF is getting bigger and bigger every single day. If you've got a positive story to put out there then make sure it makes a splash on GAF at the very least. Having played SG for a year I learned not to depend on anyone, but those closest to you, your game and your particular scene.

 

[kick51]

Then he further equates select individuals as the "Capcom FGC." Not exactly accurate.

Yeah...this seems to get a little more wavy as things go on. It's one thing to bring this stuff out, but it should be done the right way. Not "here's the facts and a whole bunch of bloating stuff to mess around with the facts." Even the thread title throws everybody who organizes tournies in the FGC under the bus...

 

[def sim]

EVO pays out top 3: 70, 30, 10 for every game. They like that system and don't change. IIRC AE winner was paid over $7000. This $3000 number is either a misinformed rumor or a total fabrication.

I assume you meant 70/20/10. The pay out for AE shows how small the FGC is in comparison to the rest of competitive gaming. Interesting to know.

Input from other sources would be appreciated. It's a shame the approval process here can take a while.

 

[Seasoned Badger]

MLG dropped KOF because no one was showing up for it.

No one was watching it too which is way worst than no one showing up. Which just proves that those 10k, 20k, 80k viewers watching top 8 of persona, tekken, SCV, KOF, etc are just waiting for Marvel/SF4 to start.

 

[Chindogg]

I assume you meant 70/20/10. The pay out for AE shows how small the FGC is in comparison to the rest of competitive gaming. Interesting to know.

Input from other sources would be appreciated. It's a shame the approval process here can take a while.

Yeah it was a typo lol.

Honestly, I think its just difficult to sponsor fighters because its difficult to sell things though sponsorships. For everything other competitive game, they're almost all PC based. That means selling mice, keyboards, graphics cards, memory, processors, etc. What can a fighting game player shill? Arcade sticks, pads, and maybe monitors? Tshirts? The variety is just very difficult to figure out at this point.

Maybe this'll change if fighters become more and more based on the PC platform, but right now their most entry friendly aspect (only needing a stick, game, and console) can also be their biggest obstacle when it comes to sponsoring.

Keep in mind this is just a theory, I could be completely off base and full of it lol.

 

[Jaxel]

Yeah it was a typo lol.

Honestly, I think its just difficult to sponsor fighters because its difficult to sell things though sponsorships. For everything other competitive game, they're almost all PC based. That means selling mice, keyboards, graphics cards, memory, processors, etc. What can a fighting game player shill? Arcade sticks, pads, and maybe monitors? Tshirts? The variety is just very difficult to figure out at this point.

Maybe this'll change if fighters become more and more based on the PC platform, but right now their most entry friendly aspect (only needing a stick, game, and console) can also be their biggest obstacle when it comes to sponsoring.

Keep in mind this is just a theory, I could be completely off base and full of it lol.

You seem to be echoing things I've been saying on my stream for years now.

 

[alstein]

Screw them

Having played SG for a year I learned not to depend on anyone, but those closest to you, your game and your particular scene.

That is how VF does it. I think the fact that communities like VF and Skullgirls pretty much entirely care about their own game and growing it over the drama stuff is why I like the VF and SG community so much.

I just wish more people would give the smaller fighters and smaller FGC's a chance. That doesn't mean being hipster and liking a small game because it's small though.

And I'm also hoping for PC next-gen, but I've already decided that I'm going to pass on next-gen consoles (though I reserve the right to change my mind if SC6 goes back to what made SC good or VF6) I just don't like online paywalls.

I assume you meant 70/20/10. The pay out for AE shows how small the FGC is in comparison to the rest of competitive gaming. Interesting to know.

Input from other sources would be appreciated. It's a shame the approval process here can take a while.

the payout from FGC events is mostly from entry fees. The payout from e-sports is mostly prize money sponsorships. It's more the FGC is poor/less sponsored.

The FGC is to e-sports is like comparing the WSOP to golf.

 

[Chindogg]

You seem to be echoing things I've been saying on my stream for years now.

Then you realize why MLG just won't work out for us. We can't sell their stuff like other games can. We gotta do it on our own.

Does this mean all roads lead to EVO? Not necessarily, but right now that's the standard because no one else really wants to or can afford to step up. This is why we need to grow as a whole instead of tearing each other down with baseless factionism.

 

[Jaxel]

Then you realize why MLG just won't work out for us. We can't sell their stuff like other games can. We gotta do it on our own.

Does this mean all roads lead to EVO? Not necessarily, but right now that's the standard because no one else really wants to or can afford to step up. This is why we need to grow as a whole instead of tearing each other down with baseless factionism.

Yes, you are right, MLG will not work for us, which is what I've also said many times. What I also said is that opportunities like MLG will not come along often, because of these specific issues. So for the FGC not to take advantage of these opportunities while they can, is simply foolish.

 

[call_kotaku]

This is why we need to grow as a whole instead of tearing each other down with baseless factionism.

But if someone isn't a top player or a TO how else can they participate in the fighting game community

#Kappa

 

[Face it Tiger..]

Yeah it was a typo lol.

Honestly, I think its just difficult to sponsor fighters because its difficult to sell things though sponsorships. For everything other competitive game, they're almost all PC based. That means selling mice, keyboards, graphics cards, memory, processors, etc. What can a fighting game player shill? Arcade sticks, pads, and maybe monitors? Tshirts? The variety is just very difficult to figure out at this point.

Don't forget the energy drinks!

 

[Chindogg]

But if someone isn't a top player or a TO how else can they participate in the fighting game community

#Kappa

I'll admit, I laughed.

 

[Shouta]

Even if there's no actual "Capcom FGC" it's still a pretty interesting phenomenon in the greater scope of it all.

 

[Rice-Eater]

that was corroborated by James Chen, who has been in on planning of Evo a lot before. he was pretty staunch about it being bullshit that they are making bags of money on Evo. Seems like a trustworthy guy.

Not saying that I think James is lying. But EVO has grown so much over the past 4 years and from the looks of it, the production value hasn't increased that much. Back in 09 they had 1000+ show up because SF4 revived the scene. At $50 a pop on average, they raked in 50k to pay for the venue, stream, and whatever else they have to pay for. Last year 3500+ showed up and at 50$ a pop again that should be 175k minus whatever it cost to pay for venue and so on. This time though they probably made quite a bit more from sponsors the compared to 2009 for sure. Yes the production value went up for sure, it just doesn't feel like 100k+ up since they're still running things in a nice large ballroom instead of a convention center. But I don't know all the fact, I'm just doing some basic math.

Basically if they're actually making a lot of money, I'd just rather they admit it instead of hiding behind the "we're spending tons of hours for the love of the community and only breaking even" line. But most TO's say they're not so that's all we can go by since they're not going to show us the receipts. But it's something I've been curious about for a while now. Would be nice if someone was willing to break down the numbers to shut everybody up. But they have no prerogative to do so.

 

[Chindogg]

Not saying that I think James is lying. But EVO has grown so much over the past 4 years and from the looks of it, the production value hasn't increased that much. Back in 09 they had 1000+ show up because SF4 revived the scene. At $50 a pop on average, they raked in 50k to pay for the venue, stream, and whatever else they have to pay for. Last year 3500+ showed up and at 50$ a pop again that should be 175k minus whatever it cost to pay for venue and so on. This time though they probably made quite a bit more from sponsors the compared to 2009 for sure. Yes the production value went up for sure, it just doesn't feel like 100k+ up since they're still running things in a nice large ballroom instead of a convention center. But I don't know all the fact, I'm just doing some basic math.

Basically if they're actually making a lot of money, I'd just rather they admit it instead of hiding behind the "we're spending tons of hours for the love of the community and only breaking even" line. But most TO's say they're not so that's all we can go by since they're not going to show us the receipts. But it's something I've been curious about for a while now. Would be nice if someone was willing to break down the numbers to shut everybody up. But they have no prerogative to do so.

You do realize how much it costs to rent out multiple ballrooms at a place like Caesar's Palace right?

 

[Ragingnight]

Yeah it was a typo lol.

Honestly, I think its just difficult to sponsor fighters because its difficult to sell things though sponsorships. For everything other competitive game, they're almost all PC based. That means selling mice, keyboards, graphics cards, memory, processors, etc. What can a fighting game player shill? Arcade sticks, pads, and maybe monitors? Tshirts? The variety is just very difficult to figure out at this point.

Maybe this'll change if fighters become more and more based on the PC platform, but right now their most entry friendly aspect (only needing a stick, game, and console) can also be their biggest obstacle when it comes to sponsoring.

Keep in mind this is just a theory, I could be completely off base and full of it lol.

I heavily disagree. Look at some of MLG sponsors. A lot of them are not even video game related.

Gootecks hit the nail right on the head. The demographic for our scene is 16-late 20's. If those are the only things that can sell then you're doing it wrong.

Look at how big it was when EG and papa johns hooked up. Look at how much awareness it brought both of them.

Music, Food, Drinks, Clothing, anime, stream equipment, system peripheral, tablets, phones, alcohol and all that are potential markets. And if there is a market there is a chance of potential sponsors.

You do realize how much it costs to rent out multiple ballrooms at a place like Caesar's Palace right?

But they also get a cut for promising X amount of rooms to be booked. Thats why they have a deal on them to begin with.

 

[Rice-Eater]

You do realize how much it costs to rent out multiple ballrooms at a place like Caesar's Palace right?

No idea whatsoever. That's why I'm just playing the numbers game as simple minded as that is. MS and Sony aren't going to break down the PS4 and Xbone for us so we know how much it cost to put these machines together and I don't expect the Cannon's to break down EVO to us either. It would be very interesting to hear though and shut everybody up if they did.

 

[Chindogg]

But they also get a cut for promising X amount of rooms to be booked. Thats why they have a deal on them to begin with.

This is actually a common misconception, booking X amount of rooms basically sets the price of the venue, let alone the venue even allowing the event in the first place. If this was true, then every TO would be making money hand over fist (which now makes me understand why there's such a misconception about how much a TO actually makes on these events.)

No idea whatsoever. That's why I'm just playing the numbers game as simple minded as that is. MS and Sony aren't going to break down the PS4 and Xbone for us so we know how much it cost to put these machines together and I don't expect the Cannon's to break down EVO to us either. It would be very interesting to hear though and shut everybody up if they did.

Honestly I'd love for a TO to put up some sort of documentary over the process of running a tournament. It would then finally pull back the curtain on how much these events actually cost. I'm really surprised Jebailey hasn't done it yet lol.

 

[Hazaro]

First:
Thanks for supporting Xenforo and spreading tech on that and stream setups. I think I commented before, but I'll say it again. Thanks for dropping some knowledge.
If you ever want to verify some hardware choices lmk.

Oh, and as someone who has done a bit more and seen more on the production side, streaming, and Tournament Organizing. It's not easy. People take this shit for granted way too much.

Is that why when they ran fighting games during these past few years, they hired people from WITHIN the community to make sure everything gets run straight? They got people from the FGC to run the tournaments, as well as hired commentators from the FGC to make sure everything was run straight. In fact, when they were deciding on stuff for Soulcalibur, they came to ME and asked for my opinions. They went out of their way to appease the FGC. They did the same for the Mortal Kombat community.

Not to mention, the idea that MLG events conflict with FGC events is actually wrong. MLG has to not only schedule around FGC events, but around other eSports events. There are TONS of eSports events all year round, and they make sure not to conflict. MLG runs on the same weekends EVERY year and their events are announced WAY in advance, and FGC TOs know this, they know the dates of MLG events way before their schedule their events, but THEY are the ones that schedule on top of MLG.

They ran great events for the PLAYERS, lots of space, good air-conditioning, free drinks and goodie bags, as well as lots of stuff to do in your free time. Not to mention they treated everybody well and not a single player I know who attended MLG said they had a bad time. yes, during their FIRST FGC event, the stream was not well, but thats because their stream was designed for 30 minute Starcraft matches and they were used to the speed of fighting games yet. They learned from their mistakes for future events and fixed the issues.

First place at EVO was $3K (some people told me it was only $1.5K, but I heard $3k), with 1000 people entering... and first place for MLG is $12K with 128 people entering; and MLG happens every 3 months, instead of only once a year. They valued their players more and made sure they had a great time at every event.

That's cool to hear. I wasn't sure how much MLG invested. I was at MLG Anahiem, chilled with some of the FGC players a bit. Pretty hilarious to see the FGC guys on the left with tons of empty seats (Basically only players and people taking a break) and 100% full SC II and LoL. They stand out a bit too.

As you said there were was some stream iffyness, but they had a dedicated camera guy, casting booth behind and got JuiceBox and the Mexican guy (mind's blanking) to do casting for some great KoF.
It's just not the right audience now. :/

Bum is saying I'm full of shit, putting words in my mouth... like saying that I don't make money off youtube, which I never said. I said I don't make money off youtube on 3D FIGHTING GAMES.

Is that due to gaming partner websites simply not allowing monetization of those titles? Have there been any talks with devs/publishers to enable monetization like MineCraft/Valve/Blizzard allows? It's so obvious it is positive.

Honestly, I think its just difficult to sponsor fighters because its difficult to sell things though sponsorships. For everything other competitive game, they're almost all PC based. That means selling mice, keyboards, graphics cards, memory, processors, etc. What can a fighting game player shill? Arcade sticks, pads, and maybe monitors? Tshirts? The variety is just very difficult to figure out at this point.

Maybe this'll change if fighters become more and more based on the PC platform, but right now their most entry friendly aspect (only needing a stick, game, and console) can also be their biggest obstacle when it comes to sponsoring.

Keep in mind this is just a theory, I could be completely off base and full of it lol.

Bingo. And the FGC being what it is, is very hard to make non-endemic advertisers attracted to. And that's something eSports is slowly trying to make happen.

Yes, you are right, MLG will not work for us, which is what I've also said many times. What I also said is that opportunities like MLG will not come along often, because of these specific issues. So for the FGC not to take advantage of these opportunities while they can, is simply foolish.

Yeah the protective lashing out at what a giant organization is completely understandable, but I felt like more could have been worked out. Oh well. FGC is FGC.

 

[Ragingnight]

This is actually a common misconception, booking X amount of rooms basically sets the price of the venue, let alone the venue even allowing the event in the first place. If this was true, then every TO would be making money hand over fist (which now makes me understand why there's such a misconception about how much a TO actually makes on these events.)



Honestly I'd love for a TO to put up some sort of documentary over the process of running a tournament. It would then finally pull back the curtain on how much these events actually cost. I'm really surprised Jebailey hasn't done it yet lol.

I think I said that all wrong. Yeah they get a cut off their venue fee (not a cut from the sales of the rooms). Its not a 100% cut/free venue but its definitely cheaper.

Also I don't see why a venue wouldn't allow any legal event that doesn't damage their brand/reputation if they get paid for it.

A big problem with the FGC is that people are very bad at marketing it and/or themselves. ChrisG is dominating the whole marvel scene but yet he has poor marketability compared to somebody like Wong, Fchamp, or fanatiq. Idra in SC2 wasn't winning tournamnets in the longest time but yet was still paid very well compared to FGC standards due to his fanbase and personality (Before he fucked that all up).

 

[Tripon]

You do realize how much it costs to rent out multiple ballrooms at a place like Caesar's Palace right?

If its so expensive, then why have it in Las Vegas, and Caesar's Palace in the first place?

Evo picked one of the most expensive cities, and one of the most expensive hotels to run their tourney. To then cry poverty is a bit much.

 

[KingofSarus]

You guys...

...seriously...

...made a thread of this.

 

[Ragingnight]

You guys...

...seriously...

...made a thread of this.

Who are these "you guys" bub

 

[JDdelphin]

.....snitchers?

 

[Hazaro]

I think I said that all wrong. Yeah they get a cut off their venue fee (not a cut from the sales of the rooms). Its not a 100% cut/free venue but its definitely cheaper.

Also I don't see why a venue wouldn't allow any legal event that doesn't damage their brand/reputation if they get paid for it.

A big problem with the FGC is that people are very bad at marketing it and/or themselves. ChrisG is dominating the whole marvel scene but yet he has poor marketability compared to somebody like Wong, Fchamp, or fanatiq. Idra in SC2 wasn't winning tournamnets in the longest time but yet was still paid very well compared to FGC standards due to his fanbase and personality (Before he fucked that all up).

Brand is very important. Say you crossbook a FGC event and 3 business conferences. Could there be an impact and lost clients? Sure.

FGC also needs things to market. EG is the best in the business at what they do. I was browsing for RAM on Amazon and see this:

Horrendous, but that player endorsement is there. ChrisG was at E3 probably doing some work for the PDP booth and MadCatz in some fashion so it extends beyond a simple product endorsement I'm sure. But, I also wouldn't be surprised if he couldn't leverage his current status more. But does he even want to?

/OT

 

[Chindogg]

If its so expensive, then why have it in Las Vegas, and Caesar's Palace in the first place?

Evo picked one of the most expensive cities, and one of the most expensive hotels to run their tourney. To then cry poverty is a bit much.

I don't think anyone's crying poverty. The misconception is that EVO is making massive profits, which isn't true. Most of the money is really made from SRK ad revenue.