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[Shouta]

When i said $3k, I was NOT in any way accusing EVO/SRK of misappropriated funds. I was simply making a point about how MLG payouts are far greater than that of the FGC. As I've also said before, the $3K number is only hearsay. The number itself is not important, only that its far less than what MLG was offering, and every 3 months instead of once a year. Even if the EVO first place payout was $6k, the argument remains the same. People are arguing the $3K number because they can't argue the real point of what I was saying.

Ah, that makes sense.

I would recommend you be a bit more careful in how you construct the statement next time. In a war of words, a misplaced word or a awkwardly phrased sentence can be misunderstood by folks to be something that it is not. It's something I've learned being on this forum for so long.

I think the problem is that many people were quick to get upset and quickly forgetting the FGC is pretty good sometimes.

That and not clearly reading statements. Jaxel's gotten some flak for talking about all TOs when he only said the big ones, even going so far as naming them.

 

[nycfurby]

Well, err do you mean going ham for an audience that isn't at the events? 'cause I'm sure he's not going ham on them as he hasn't said much or anything about the stream monsters. He did make Yo Kappa and the awesome multiviewer for us so I'm sure Jaxel loves him his stream monsters.

I'm sure there are crazier things that are more serious from a community perspective, no doubt. This is more of a personal issue he has that he wanted to bring to light. I'm really certain he's not putting all TOs on blast, so it's just a matter of scope of the discussion. Because Jaxel does a lot of stuff for the community by being a streamer and doing more beyond that and he loves the folks that he interacts with. So I don't think he'd try and alienate them outright.

Also, we need to play some SFxT at Evo man! You haven't been on the PS3 or the IRC channel much.

The problem with this discussion as well is that it's based on Jaxel's word/hearsay rather than solid evidence as well. It's not like Big E or Larry or Shinblanka can even defend themselves, none of them have GAF accounts to even post, so its extremely one sided.

E3 and the constant tournaments over the past 3 weeks burnt me out, so I'm resting up. Gonna get back into the swing of things sometime this week though.



Jaxel will have to clarify himself on that. I assumed pot bonus but I don't know if that's what he meant. 3k for first place in a 1000-man event is missing a few thousand bucks though with the other payouts factored in.[/QUOTE]

So the moral of the story is "everyone has an agenda".

My agenda is CPM so that I can continue to go to more events, and basically self-sustain myself like I've always been doing the past year or so. haha

 

[A Pretty Panda]

I think it would have helped if you had added in the OP that this info was posted in another thread, and that since Jaxel can't make his own threads yet you posted it for him. It can help the discussion if you make it easier for people not to reach the wrong conclusion (that this represents your own opinion or that you are stating it as fact).

I thought the blurb I had at the top and that each quote lead to his posts would relieve that, but sure I'll add that.

 

[Shouta]

The problem with this discussion as well is that it's based on Jaxel's word/hearsay rather than solid evidence as well. It's not like Big E or Larry or Shinblanka can even defend themselves, none of them have GAF accounts to even post, so its extremely one sided.

If they want an account to respond to this, I'm certain something can be arranged.

And if they do decide to respond, I'll take the active position and moderate the discussion so it doesn't get out of hand.

 

[gutabo]

Because the FGC is still running on a buddy-buddy mentality when it comes to business. A lot of folks do things for the community to make it better without worrying about those kinds of details as it still can be rough in some areas.

I think it's still Jaxel's fault but as a developer I can relate to many of the issues with getting everything on paper. I've had issues even with big companies and most of the times you just have to yield and do more or you might lose the job. Sometimes it's people not really knowing what you do and not giving your work the value it has. Sometimes it's people just wanting to squeeze you and your work for pennies. I've had "disagreements" growing into legal matters and even if I won the legal battles I ended up losing in the long run, even being shunned from other possible jobs.

Also getting TOs to post real numbers... they can lie, make up numbers, post fake receipts... good luck with that. Just an answer from TOs(and from Big E) would be great. We already have Jaxel's side, and we have seen some of his apps(btw his streaming apps are great).

 

[A Pretty Panda]

If they respond to this via twitter or something else I'll gladly add their comments to the OP.

 

[Dahbomb]

If they respond to this via twitter or something else I'll gladly add their comments to the OP.

Well you can start by adding the Viscant comments in the OP as he has made more direct comments on the issue.

 

[Chindogg]

Argument

I understand what you're saying, and I was pretty sure that I stated that it wasn't everyone, or even a majority. I'm one who believe in being responsible for what you make public. You notice how much of a tizzy this thread has already created and how a lot of community members are flat out saying "bullshit." Its well within Jaxel's right to say whatever he wants to say, however it should be considered that its one guy's voice and shouldn't be displayed as some kind of news. That's my issue with it.

I'm not upset with Panda honestly, but he seems to think my call for skepticism and responsible posting is somehow whining. All I said that it wasn't his right to create a thread on it then have it displayed as some sort of official fact without any disclaimer or other indication that its just an opinion/testimony only, which is why so many are reaching these crazy conclusions. Yeah he's not a journalist, but when you make a thread you should be held responsible for the contents. Many other thread makers have been slammed before for posting inaccurate or lacking information.

Personally I don't care what he thinks of me, but taking shots at me every chance he has does speak for his own character.

 

[Jenga]

one time I fought MrWizard on SF4 online


he was very laggy

knew he was up to no good

 

[Isaccard]

one time I fought MrWizard on SF4 online


he was very laggy

knew he was up to no good

That son of a so and so

 

[knee]

Well you can start by adding the Viscant comments in the OP as he has made more direct comments on the issue.

...but he's not a TO?

 

[lolmark]

The sad part is... Empire isn't shady at all. At least not TriForce; I can't speak for others in EMP.

In the spirit of skepticism, why haven't we examined this post?

 

[Shouta]

Well you can start by adding the Viscant comments in the OP as he has made more direct comments on the issue.

Uh, why? His comments add nothing nor do they refute anything Jaxel says.

In the spirit of skepticism, why haven't we examined this post?

That's a pretty good point but it could just be that Jaxel's dealings with TriForce have been on the up and up. I don't really know the full situation on what's going on with him but there always a lot of story about what TriForce is up to. It'd be nice to see some real evidence to prove he's actually shady.

 

[irfaanator]

haven't seen ultradavid post in here yet. He would be one that could drop some knowledge on this stuff

 

[nycfurby]

If they want an account to respond to this, I'm certain something can be arranged.

And if they do decide to respond, I'll take the active position and moderate the discussion so it doesn't get out of hand.

PM'ed you on Neogaf with a few of the TO's mod names that have been pending approval.

 

[Jaxel]

That's a pretty good point but it could just be that Jaxel's dealings with TriForce have been on the up and up. I don't really know the full situation on what's going on with him but there always a lot of story about what TriForce is up to. It'd be nice to see some real evidence to prove he's actually shady.

Yes, I do deal with TriForce, and I respect him as a person. TriForce owes me a LOT of money, but I will continue to deal with him because he's a professional and I know if he COULD pay me, he would. The "shady" part of TriForce most people talk about is the accusations that TriForce is leaching from top players in the empire and basically boosting himself up. That he is using these players and returning them nothing. The difference is that people don't quite understand what teams were back in the day during the heyday of fighting games.

I used to be part of a team called "Crooked Jester", does that mean I was sponsored by crooked jester? No, it does not. Empire was the same way, TriForce was never a sponsor to these players, he was just a team manager. TriForce would go out of his way to try to help these players, foster their skills and marketability. He would be looking out for them, trying to find the team sponsors so that one day, maybe the players could make a living off of video games.

All this, while he was letting a large part of the players in EMP live in his house! He always had tons of people from the empire living in the arc; is it really that wrong for him to be asking them to help pay the rent? However, many of the players never payed the rent, and instead kept asking TriForce to pay for their trips to tournaments around the country. He's lost so much due to trying to help players in the EMP, and sees very little gratitude in return.

 

[Infinite]

In the spirit of skepticism, why haven't we examined this post?

Triforce says some crazy and often wrong shit but I haven't seen anyone prove he is shady, whatever that means to you.

 

[Horseress]

I don't understand, Jaxel only said SRK and BigE treated him unprofessionally and Henry Cen made an unprofessional move on The Break, and Art, Viscant, and everyone else is just focusing on an assumption that the payout "could be" 3K, when he was clearly just making a comparison with MLG payouts, while preferring to not talk about the important, and very disappointing, stuff he said.

You, FGC guys, are making the FGC even more shady than Jaxel is stating it is

And BigE and however wanna talk, can talk. People are posting Viscant tweets here. They can express themselves.

 

[Jaxel]

People don't understand... when I talk about this kind of stuff, expose these people, I'm not expecting it to get better for me. I'm not posting and asking for an apology, nor am I expecting people to be on my side. I post because I know it's already over for me,I have nothing left to lose or gain for myself. I post for the person who comes after me, so that these kind of issues are in the back of there mind, so they can be prepared, and ready to deal with the politics where I wasn't.

 

[Rentahamster]

Yikes, sorry to hear about your bad experiences, Jaxel. Your stream had good quality and was decently put together.

Fuckin' Wind Jammers, man

 

[Camp Lo]

People don't understand... when I talk about this kind of stuff, expose these people, I'm not expecting it to get better for me. I'm not posting and asking for an apology, nor am I expecting people to be on my side. I post because I know it's already over for me,I have nothing left to lose or gain for myself. I post for the person who comes after me, so that these kind of issues are in the back of there mind, so they can be prepared, and ready to deal with the politics where I wasn't.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

All I said that it wasn't his right to create a thread on it then have it displayed as some sort of official fact without any disclaimer or other indication that its just an opinion/testimony only

But none of it is presented as fact as I've stated before.

The title 'Jaxel- On the big Tournament Organizers in the Fighting Game Community' is pure opinion. I'm saying "here's this person, here's what he has to say on a matter".

Here are the facts that are in the OP.

1) That Jaxel said this, this, and that.
2) I explained who Jaxel is
3) I later put in that he's a junior so I posted the thread for him.

The "the big Tournament Organizers" part does make for I blanket statement that I did not intend for, I'll admit. But the "you're presenting this all as fact!" is dumb and you should stop.

 

[Dahbomb]

Uh, why? His comments add nothing nor do they refute anything Jaxel says.

He's refuting the claim that TOs make a "killing" off of tournaments and he is refuting the pay outs of EVO claimed by Jaxel as he himself won EVO.

I mean I just think we just need more perspectives in the OT to present a balanced view. People like Art and Chindogg have chimed, they should be represented too.

I mean if one person is saying "TOs make a killing, almost 30 grand" while another person says "not even close to that amount, its not a big profitable venture at all" then I feel something like this needs to be pointed so we can get to the bottom of it and see who is full of shit.

 

[Negator]

Damn, Jaxel. I've heard you say this while streaming other games but seeing it again in text on this forum really brings it home. Sorry that you had to go through all this, but I appreciate what you've done and still enjoy watching your stream.

 

[Shouta]

He's refuting the claim that TOs make a "killing" off of tournaments and he is refuting the pay outs of EVO claimed by Jaxel as he himself won EVO.

Refuting with what? Need something to back it up beyond just his word. That is is a losing proposition, as I said earlier, but it's the fastest way to prove it beyond all this he said/she said

Jaxel already commented on the 3k being a number he heard and that it was less about the exact number and more the exact situation an FGC major has compared to MLG.

 

[Face it Tiger..]

He's refuting the claim that TOs make a "killing" off of tournaments and he is refuting the pay outs of EVO claimed by Jaxel as he himself won EVO.

Dah,

I think you are too stuck on the numbers.. rather than the message itself.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Longer followup post from Viscant.

https://www.facebook.com/Viscant/posts/482799905130123

I can't believe I got dragged into this crapstorm but I'll respond a little and what I have to say is too long to tweet so we'll use this space. Feel free to cut and paste this wherever it needs to go.

The way this discourse is going is proving my point. Multiple people have expressed their desire to respond to Jaxel's false accusations but can't because they don't have access to the arena the conversation is taking place in. As has been said in the thread, the "silence" makes it seem like they have something to hide when the reality is they are unable to respond. As I said on twitter, it's classic Fox News style reporting. You present one side with wild claims and accusations in an arena where the discussion moderators treat said wild claims with utter seriousness and no rebuttal. The presentation leads the user to believe something they wanted to believe anyways (and the more they want to believe, the more wild your accusations can be since you're really just telling them they were right all along).

Secondly this discussion is presented as though someone needs to "refute" what Jaxel is saying. In plain and simple terms, this is BS. That's not how this process works. You make a huge claim, you need to back it up. He has claimed that Evo is underpaying their players (refuted, which he has already backpedaled away from claiming that "that wasn't his point" when he just didn't expect to be caught in a lie this early), he has claimed that he's being unfairly blackballed from other events (unsubstantiated, no proof he was blackballed from VxG for the reason he claimed), he has claimed that BigE is the one who is blackballing him (unsubstantiated) and has claimed that tournament organizers are "making a killing". What's there to rebut here? He's provided no hard facts or figures except in the evo payouts case where he was slapped down very quickly. If he provided other hard figures then we could have a discussion and see how much (or how little) of a point he has.

Because I don't have any personal knowledge of BigE's finances, I'll let someone else take care of that, but it shouldn't have to be pointed out how utterly STUPID the accusation of tournament organizers profiting huge is. Running a major tournament is basically like having a part time minimum wage job with huge amounts of risk. The best case scenario is you make a couple thousand for months of work, don't have anything explode in your face, don't have people back out on you last minute, don't have any serious hiccups with things beyond your control and don't lose your shirt. Which can happen. Look at Jedirobb. His goal was to provide a great tournament and he got screwed over. He didn't "make a killing" on Devastation, he got run over.

It's not up to TOs to disprove that they "made a killing", it's up to the person making the stupid claim to come up with hard numbers proving what he says taking all realistic expenses, risks, down payments and organization costs into effect. You want to bring it into the light, bring it into the light. Unless of course you don't have these figures and just want to stir up some trouble.

Really can't believe I wasted this much time on everyday drama...

 

[Chindogg]

Edit: looks like someone beat me to it.

So now that Jay's basically repeating what I've been saying, is it still whining?

 

[Chavelo]

From Viscant's FB:

https://www.facebook.com/Viscant/posts/482799905130123

EDIT: Beaten, posted link to FB

If we can PLEASE put some more info on the OP from both sides, I'll appreciate it. Although I agree with a few points from Jaxel, is does look skewed because some people are not able to post at the moment. Yes, their account may be approved a few weeks from now, but by then this will probably fizzle out.

Also, I would recommend that the title is changed to reflect on the whole issue about TOs, not just one's view about the matter. I don't want GAF to be seen as a place where "classic Fox News style reporting" happens.

 

[Dahbomb]

Dah,

I think you are too stuck on the numbers.. rather than the message itself.

Its not about the numbers, its about the claims. If you make a claim that a TO is making a killing off of the players and events while several other people say the opposite then I feel that needs a more balanced perspective so we can get to the bottom of this. This isn't about Jaxel or Viscant or whoever... it's bigger than any one individual or event.

Edit: That Viscant FB post should at least be linked in the OP. If not someone is going to make a counter thread about it... lol

 

[SixMachine]

I don't know any specifics or anything with TOs but what is the big deal if they make 30k at an event like EVO? As long as the numbers balance out and the prize money is properly allocated, then I don't see the problem when someone makes money off an event. I know people will say to put it back in the fgc, put its a private venture by an organization, so they should be able to do whatever with their profits. Sort of how if other gaming events make way more than they put in (I don't if this is true for most), people don't bat an eye if Riot makes money off the leagues and events they throw.

 

[Professor Beef]

How does one get the tournament numbers on their profits and stuff if nobody is willing to disclose them?

 

[Passive Assassin]

In the spirit of skepticism, why haven't we examined this post?

... Hahahahahaha

 

[Mabans]

People don't understand... when I talk about this kind of stuff, expose these people, I'm not expecting it to get better for me. I'm not posting and asking for an apology, nor am I expecting people to be on my side. I post because I know it's already over for me,I have nothing left to lose or gain for myself. I post for the person who comes after me, so that these kind of issues are in the back of there mind, so they can be prepared, and ready to deal with the politics where I wasn't.

I'm a web developer too, been doing it almost 20 years and you made a lot of ROOKIE mistakes. Taking you at your word, for the sake of argument, you had every opportunity to put a stop the the mistreatment you felt. You didn't, that's not their fault, it's yours. Never and i mean NEVER under sell yourself, make compromises, concessions but never undersell yourself. Someone talks to you sideways, you ask for respect in a professional manner than garners it. For whatever reason you didn't it but if you did it because you thought it was betterment of the community, then thank you but acting out this way because "I have nothing left to lose or gain for myself" shows me, just me, that you were as in it for what they are supposedly in it for, money; now are pissed because you didn't get your fair share. Remember 7 years is a long fucking time to realize that you are in a bad business relationship, especially when dealing with seemingly per diem, non contract work.

The only issue now are these claims you've made with little evidence and backpedaling. Till then, take your tantrums, lick your wounds and man up. You're the not the 1st

 

[Spiderjericho]

I've read all the posts in this thread. I feel for Jaxel's situation. And if the issue is his business dealings with SRK and Big E. His rant/argument should've been focused squarely on that.

Now, all his unsubstantiated facts and opinions have taken away from that. Sad.

 

[Dahbomb]

How does one get the tournament numbers on their profits and stuff if nobody is willing to disclose them?

That's the problem. Right now its purely a game of he said, she said... we are purely at the mercy of taking other people's word on the matter. Until someone throws out documented hard numbers, I remain skeptical on all fronts. That's probably not gonna happen though.

 

[zon]

If what you're saying is true then I feel for you, but I don't understand why you kept doing streams/recording matches for Big E for 7 years if he treated you this badly.

 

[Mabans]

If what you're saying is true then I feel for you, but I don't understand why you kept doing streams/recording matches for Big E for 7 years if he treated you this badly.

He was expecting bread off the table.

 

[Spiderjericho]

That's the problem. Right now its purely a game of he said, she said... we are purely at the mercy of taking other people's word on the matter. Until someone throws out documented hard numbers, I remain skeptical on all fronts. That's probably not gonna happen though.

But what does that matter? His issue was with his poor business relationship with the Cannons/Mr. Wizard and Big E.

I also agree. You offer a service, there is good a faith period or taking a loss at first, but I, personally, would've cut my ties or said I wouldn't do any work until I got what was owed to me. Also, the devil is in the details, that's why it's good to have a contract or statement of work.

Jaxel obviously has many talents (web design, streaming and organizing), so I don't think this is the manner the situation should've been handled.

 

[kazuo]

Look at Jedirobb. His goal was to provide a great tournament and he got screwed over. He didn't "make a killing" on Devastation, he got run over.

Hey, did Jedirobb finally pay out all of the players he owes money to? 'Cause, man, those players sure got screwed over.

TriForce owes me a LOT of money, but I will continue to deal with him because he's a professional and I know if he COULD pay me, he would.

So you're okay with TriForce not paying you, but Big E not paying you is somehow worthy of you engaging in spewing the equivalent of diarrhea all over the Internet? Based on your own rant, Big E never said he would pay you--you, yourself, said you streamed for him "for free"--but it's okay for TriForce to promise to pay you, and then not pay you?

This, coupled with absolutely NO proof of the claims you've made thus far, which include, but are not limited to:

1. EVO not paying players out properly
2. TOs making big money
3. Big E pulling strings to keep you from streaming VxG
4. Inventing all stream technology that FGC streamers use

Prove that you are just running around, crying "wolf!" because you realized how much of your time you wasted working for people without receiving anything in return, and now you're upset about it. It's clear to me, at least, that perhaps you have a personal agenda here, which you've now twisted into a rant against the FGC as a whole for not accepting/embracing/paying/worshipping you or whatever the issue is. At this point, any TO who chooses to work with you should re-evaluate their ability to make rational decisions, because I would never hire you based on this immature ranting you're engaging in.

Provide tangible evidence for your claims or please stop talking. You're making yourself look more and more like a fool each time you open your mouth.

 

[Seasoned Badger]

How does one get the tournament numbers on their profits and stuff if nobody is willing to disclose them?

Yup, not even Viscant was wiling to disclose the amount he won from getting 1st place in MVC3, just that he "cashed the check for a 1000-man tournament" so listen to him and not Jaxel.

All I remember was that Wolfkrone said he got a few hundred dollars ($300?) for 7th place in EVO 2011.

edit: This is not to say that Viscant is lying, just that no one is willing to disclose any numbers.

 

[Chev]

After. You can't tell the rate before the work starts because you don't know how long it will take... not to mention SRK had TONS of extra stuff they had me program in for their special cases

While I can understand how someone would be enthusiastic enough about contributing to the community to accept such a deal, this is nothing but setting yourself up for trouble. Don't do it unless you're understanding from the beginning that they'll likely not pay you and you'll do this for the benefit of contributing to your fandom.

The right, professional way to go about is to agree on initial specifications, put a price on them and have it specified that every additional case they request is subject to a new price negotiation. If you don't know how long it'll take, you agree on an hourly rate and a minimum price based on a gut estimate of how long it'll take you to implement the base features.

Sure, it may mean that they won't give you the work after seeing how much you ask for it, but better that than not getting paid for your work. Not putting a price tag on your work beforehand is basically telling the client there's no price tag.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Yup, not even Viscant was wiling to disclose the amount he won from getting 1st place in MVC3, just that he "cashed the check for a 1000-man tournament" so listen to him and not Jaxel.

All I remember was that Wolfkrone said he got a few hundred dollars ($300?) for 7th place in EVO 2011.

edit: This is not to say that Viscant is lying, just that no one is willing to disclose any numbers.

Viscant tweeted that he made 7500+ from Evo.

https://twitter.com/JayViscant/status/348709792832954369

 

[Seasoned Badger]

Viscant tweeted that he made 7500+ from Evo.

oops, I'm only going by what I see in this thread.

 

[Renegade_Civil-War]

I don't really have many direct dealings with Jaxel, we were in negotiations to bring him to Civil War this year, but he asked for more money than I could afford.

A lot of his assertions at TO's and the community are flat out wrong. Hotels usually do not give out venue space for free. They can give you a discount for booking rooms, sure, but free is hard to come by. Even then, it's not a risk free venture, you have to guarantee a large number of room nights rented, otherwise you're on the hook for the event space and/or rooms... and that's a pretty huge price tag. I'm pretty sure Big E took a huge bath on that Summer Jam when a hurricane hit the east coast.

It's really easy to criticize TOs and say they're making a "killing" when all you look at is final numbers and don't really look at the hours of work or the risk involved.

If you think all TO's have to is show up and collect money, you're dead wrong.

I made a small profit the last two Civil War tournaments. These are the first two tournaments in my 11 years running events that I've actually made what could be considered a paycheck on. 11 years running tournaments... two paychecks.

We had 250 people for Civil War 4 and 400 for Civil War V, so it's a fairly large tournament, a step under the UFGTs, CEOs, and ECTs of the scene.

It's really hard to get 400 people to come to an event. You have to build that over years and have to have a proven track record.

And guess what? Neither of those tournaments went in the black until people showed up and paid at the door. Think you can sell a business proposition to run a concert or something and not know if you'll profit or be shelled for stacks until the day of the event?

No freaking way. That's why ticketmaster exists. We have to charge $40 at the freaking door b/c otherwise NO ONE would pre-register and make running huge tournaments almost impossible.

Anyway, what's my pay per hour? WAAAY under minimum wage. I'm pretty sure for this CW it was under $5 and Civil War IV was under $1. Guys like Keits who put way more money in their tournament (and it shows) is even less per hour.

For my venue? I couldn't get a discount on the event space because the room blocks were being rented out at discounted rates ($65 a night). In order to get discounted event space, I'd have to have rooms booked at standard rates and I wasn't willing to do that to the players.

Anywho, him asserting that the "big TOs" are trying to "fleece the community" is just a load of hogwash. There's nothing to fleece.

Case and point: there are NO (zero) professional Tournament Organizers. The closest is Big E, since he runs 3 large events a year. (This is why his hotel probably gives him better rates and he has more equipment than anyone on the EC). But even E has day jobs and night jobs.

If it was such "free money" why isn't everyone else doing it? Why do most TOs seem reluctant, jaded, and frazzled? Because it's more work than it's worth financially, and it's pretty much love of community that keeps it going.

Anywho, on to Jaxel here.

Well, I take it you're retiring from your "streaming career" at major FGC events... cuz I'm not really sure who would want to pay you money now. If you don't like what's going on, you go air it out on the internet instead of person to person. Talk about unprofessional.

What's ironic, is that he even says the knock against him is that he's "unprofessional"... and tries to dispute that by airing all of his dirty laundry on public forums that most TO's aren't a part of.

He tries to knock Big E and said he hasn't been paid for 7 years, but NO streamer really got paid before 2010. Remember when Spooky was "Kings of Poverty". Also, I think Jaxel has enough DONATE buttons all over his pages... even had a damn tip jar at WB7.

CLASSY!

He's not even a "primary" streamer. He'll always want to run streams for HIS game, Soul Calibur, which is a B list draw at best, over what the schedule says. Which is what he did at WB7.

If you look at the archives, the games he streamed the most? Soul Calibur and freaking Windjammers. Meanwhile both Namco and Team Ninja were there wanting TTT2 and DOA5 to be promoted...

And he praises Smash and MLG events, which is hilarious. MLG events aren't great so no one goes unless they want that Esports money... and if Smash events are so great, why'd they pony up $100,000 to get into EVO? Cuz most of their tournaments are adhoc shitshows that rely on randoms to bring gamecubes and 13" CRT TV's and expect Round Robin for everything. Oh, and then they steal a bunch.

Real awesome.

But the cake is saying Triforce isn't shady. He may not be "con artist" shady, but he's going to ask for every favor he can get. He's the only person to ask for special treatment at Civil War just for the honor of having EMP show up.

However, I did have to put up KnuckleDu in a hotel because Triforce flew a 16 year old kid into a city he didn't know without money or a place to stay. He didn't even have a damn cell phone. Bonus: Triforce didn't even show up until the next day.

I'm out. I have no personal issue with Jaxel, I'm just posting to provide some alternative perspective. And express that I'm glad he didn't stream my event. This is not a good look.

 

[nycfurby]

Why is it okay that Triforce owes Jaxel thousands of dollars but it's okay, then blow up Big E and other TO's for $$$? Subjective as hell.

 

[Shouta]

I'm a web developer too, been doing it almost 20 years and you made a lot of ROOKIE mistakes. Taking you at your word, for the sake of argument, you had every opportunity to put a stop the the mistreatment you felt. You didn't, that's not their fault, it's yours. Never and i mean NEVER under sell yourself, make compromises, concessions but never undersell yourself. Someone talks to you sideways, you ask for respect in a professional manner than garners it. For whatever reason you didn't it but if you did it because you thought it was betterment of the community, then thank you but acting out this way because "I have nothing left to lose or gain for myself" shows me, just me, that you were as in it for what they are supposedly in it for, money; now are pissed because you didn't get your fair share. Remember 7 years is a long fucking time to realize that you are in a bad business relationship, especially when dealing with seemingly per diem, non contract work.

The only issue now are these claims you've made with little evidence and backpedaling. Till then, take your tantrums, lick your wounds and man up. You're the not the 1st

Yeah. Basically taking it all these years is pretty foolish and that's on Jaxel's plate. Doesn't really excuse getting screwed out of some cash as he has, of course, but there's ownership Jaxel has to take for letting it happen.

But do note that Jaxel does a lot for the community out of his own pocket. That should never be in doubt. He's put a up a lot of great things and supported games and their groups that get very little love from the greater community.

So you're okay with TriForce not paying you, but Big E not paying you is somehow worthy of you engaging in spewing the equivalent of diarrhea all over the Internet? Based on your own rant, Big E never said he would pay you--you, yourself, said you streamed for him "for free"--but it's okay for TriForce to promise to pay you, and then not pay you?

Because it sounds like TriForce treats him with respect where as Big E stopped doing so. Or maybe he never did in the first place? i don't know.

For some folks not getting cash isn't a big deal as long as they're getting respected. I assume Jaxel is the same. I'd probably take the same stance tbh. I don't mind losing a bit of cash for something I do to help the community (which I did recently) but if I was getting disrespected, I'd probably be livid too and call up stuff that I'm owed.

This, coupled with absolutely NO proof of the claims you've made thus far, which include, but are not limited to:

1. EVO not paying players out properly

He didn't make the claim that Evo did not pay players out properly, it was inferred by other people. I misunderstood his point in that post as well because I read it without thinking about the rest of it. He cleared it up later. Go back and read his talk and add in the correct numbers, it doesn't change his original point.

Why is it okay that Triforce owes Jaxel thousands of dollars but it's okay, then blow up Big E and other TO's for $$$? Subjective as hell.

Respect, probably. Sounds like Tri-Force is ok to deal with for Jaxel and he can trust him to get the money eventually. Whereas that wasn't the case in the end for Big-E.

He tries to knock Big E and said he hasn't been paid for 7 years, but NO streamer really got paid before 2010. Remember when Spooky was "Kings of Poverty". Also, I think Jaxel has enough DONATE buttons all over his pages... even had a damn tip jar at WB7.

For reference, Jaxel said he was paying for streaming out of his own pocket all of WB7. Also donate buttons mean really little if no one actually donates, lol.

 

[Professor Beef]

Renegade, make sure to give back the brush you're using to paint the Smash community back to Jaxel afterwards.

Why is it okay that Triforce owes Jaxel thousands of dollars but it's okay, then blow up Big E and other TO's for $$$? Subjective as hell.

My guess is how Triforce treats Jaxel compared to how BigE has treated him.

 

[Triple Da G.O.D!]

Oh, more that familiar sounding shit.

Carry on.

 

[BronsonLee]

I'm out. I have no personal issue with Jaxel, I'm just posting to provide some alternative perspective. And express that I'm glad he didn't stream my event. This is not a good look.

-> has no personal issue with Jaxel
-> shittalks him in the same post right before this

And yeah way to paint the entire Smash community as thieves, that's some hot fire right there

FGC drama, shocking. What a mess.

The only person I believe 100% in this is Jay, and that's because he's white as the driven snow and is just as pure

Spoiler

Also he's a good dude and has no reason to lie. But holy shit is he white. Sheamus told him to get a tan!