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Jay Z to Be the First Rapper inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame

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E

Erv

Member
I love when people go on these long rants like they're some hip hop historian but they just show they are delusional 🙄
 
B

Bounceounce

Member
Erv said:
I love when people go on these long rants like they're some hip hop historian but they just show they are delusional 🙄
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I'm not a Hip Hop historian, I have facts.
The premise of his comment was that Jay created a narrative of Biggie being one of his best friends post-death and he used an argument (that he wasn't in the Ready To Die linear notes) that anyone who knows much of anything bout Jay and Biggie would see as being as solid as air.
If I didn't have video, photo, song, and interview evidence then maybe you'd have a point about my "rant", but otherwise you're just defending someone posting blatant falsities to defame a man they don't like.
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
Jay fell off as an MC nearly as hard as Eminem, but the front half of his catalog is fire & he's arguably got multiple classics under him. glad to see dude get it, he stays a top 10 artist.

#NasWon for reasons not limited to still being able to put out a great album, but let the camel have his day~

LionPride said:
He just ain't ever make good music to me. Like beats wise...nope, Lyrics wise...hell nope, I just don't like him. Or Common
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that's some really unfortunate taste you've got there

Bounceounce said:
- First thing's first, if you knew anything about Jay or Biggie you would know that they did not associate with each other until either late 95 or early 96 when Jay was I the middle of making Reasonable Doubt:
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man, as a huge biggie fan, it's sad seeing you have to lay out history like this...this stuff should really be well known

say what you want about jay (i clearly just did, haha) but it's crazy to diminish what he brought or act like he tainted shit. i mean, even when cam'ron was on about being a biter/not a writer like half the bars jay was accused of jacking, i never got the beef with: it's like, jay purposely took shit that's really well known, and would try to spin it into his own shit.
that's homage. tons of MC's (especially form that era) did that, never knew why jigga got singled out on it
 
L

LionPride

Banned
FadedRevolution said:
Its cool to dislike the dude but to deny his status bruh? Nah
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I think Nasir Jones ain't shit. I think his music is trash and is propped up as good by people who don't actually listen to what is going on with those trash ass songs amd just base it off of their nostalgia. Nas isn't good. Has never been good.
 
B

Bacon

Member
LionPride said:
I think Nasir Jones ain't shit. I think his music is trash and is propped up as good by people who don't actually listen to what is going on with those trash ass songs amd just base it off of their nostalgia. Nas isn't good. Has never been good.
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I didn't listen to illmatic until 2014 and think it's one of the best albums of all time. The nostalgia argument is weak as fuck my dude.
 
L

LionPride

Banned
IrishNinja said:
we know, you've said it like ten times in here and apparently elsewhere, let's get back to the camel
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Fuck Nas. That's all. Am a big Rakim fan tho
Bacon said:
I didn't listen to illmatic until 2014 and think it's one of the best albums of all time. The nostalgia argument is weak as fuck my dude.
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Nah, most folks I've been around saying Nas is good are old heads who think current hip-hop is terrible. Just my life experience
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
LionPride said:
Fuck Nas. That's all. Am a big Rakim fan tho
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i mean, at least we agree on that

Nah, most folks I've been around saying Nas is good are old heads who think current hip-hop is terrible. Just my life experience
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as a boom-bap dusthead: you're gonna get this from fans of ghost, reggie and a lotta NY MC's from that era that are still at it, yeah...that's kinda to be expected though

Andrew Korenchkin said:
Rakim is one of the best, as is Kool G Rap.
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G Rap is that dude i bump 4,5,6 endlessly & need to hear more of this discography, i think i have like one other album by dude
 
P

Psychological Intellect

Banned
Bounceounce said:
1) Why shouldn't he talk up his album? it's his album, if he believes it has that level of quality and the people judge him correct then why shouldn't it be considered a classic, especially with the influence he's had on rappers that came after him/the level his career has reached?

2) You're mentioning ether, irrelevant but a common tactic for Jay hater's (not people with constructive criticism) who want to break the man down or act as though Ether has bearing on anything beyond the battle, makes me want to discount everything you're saying even more.

3) Fact, Jay Z is loved by many of his peers and is considered one of the greatest rappers of all time.

4) No shit Jay lost the battle to Nas, so fucking what?

5) None of the people you listed match Jay on a technical or poetic basis other than Nas.

6) Attack Jay for something involving white people, you're just checking off the Jay bashing check list, it's sad that his fame precedes him to the point where many people don't want to give him credit/act as though he's not very talented.

7) Doesn't mean Jay is undeserving.

8) Jay is attacked for being friends with Biggie like you're doing, it's just salt even though it's irrelevant towards Jay's skill.

Now here's the fun part, let's bring it back to the Biggie point, fool's like you will always use his association with him and your ignorance as to the actualities of their relationship/dynamic to bash on Jay as if that somehow props up the memory of Biggie, as if Biggie represents some higher level of Hip Hop that Jay corrupted or that Jay was just his sidekick, but I'm talking fact's so let's talk facts, not baseless narratives:

- First thing's first, if you knew anything about Jay or Biggie you would know that they did not associate with each other until either late 95 or early 96 when Jay was I the middle of making Reasonable Doubt:

https://gumbomonster.wordpress.com/blog-stew/tizzo-tips/how-biggie-and-jay-z-first-met/

The circumstances behind their meeting are backed up by multiple other accounts as well, and contradict the narrative of Jay being the one chasing after Biggie, they met as equals.

It was about for the last 2 or 2 and 1/2 years of Big's life.

-Biggie was a fan of Jay's Dead Presidents 1 record prior to meeting him:

"DJ Clark Kent spoke on having the first and second versions of ”Dead Presidents" on repeat while touring with The Notorious B.I.G.  Singing Jay-Hova's praises, Big and the rest of the tour bus were sick of hearing Kent say that Jay could out rap the King of New York.  When Big finally gave a listen to the aforementioned tracks, he changed his tune.  ”After Big heard that, this is before they met to do ‘Brooklyn's Finest,' he was like, ‘Clark, that dude got it. He got it. He got it.' That let me know that I wasn't crazy."

Also talked about here starting at 6:35:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7_UvBv6ao

(The Dead President's thing from someone other than Clark Kent, and he talks about how close they were)

-That is probably why he Biggie opted to appear in the video for the track as well as why he appeared in the "Aint no nigga" video as well despite Jay being an unknown artist, even if it meant traveling out of country, he respected him despite not being featured, there was no BK Finest video because Dame wouldn't let them use it as a single.

- According to Lil Kim:

”(Biggie) and Jay Z just had this adorable friendship — it was the cutest. They were so competitive with each other, but it was such a friendly competitiveness, and I loved it because that's how it's supposed to be when you like somebody."

”B.I.G. admired Jay on the hustling level. I think he saw Jay was gonna be able to maneuver the game the way he is. I think he always seen that in Jay."

Also there's another interview where she talks about how they talked daily until the day that Big died, dinners, partying, including just phonecalls while Big was on tour, they had a bromance which is backed up in other sources (I'll try to find the interview).

Also performing together:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B21D-aKuWAs

(more pictures of them on google performing together in other places as well)

- If you want a Nas source since you seem to care about him, he mentions Biggie admiring Jay from how Big talked about him to him/what he saw on "Last Real Niggaz Alive".

- Biggie didn't bring Jay back on I Love The Dough (which was supposed to be their first video) and I Love The Dough because he wasn't tight with Jay, their rapping competitiveness was brotherly.

- That's why Biggie wanted to make The Commission with Jay as his right hand man right?

- That's why Biggie said ”Asked My Man Jigga, My Ace Boon Coon..." on a non-I Love The Dough track (which is slang for #1 friend or best friend)

-Big featured Jay on Lil Kim's first album even though he wasn't a big artist yet/

-Also on Biggie's last interview on Rap City days before he died they asked him to give shouts out, and he only said His son, Daughter, Junior Mafia and "JAY Z, PLAYBOY JIGGA, THAT'S IT", his word.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA7J3Mq9gTo

Jay was an unofficial bad boy member and Biggie planned on staying with Jay for the ride.

Their closeness is one of the reasons Lil Cease is always at Jay events.

-Biggie would say Jay Z is the future

-According to Jay, Biggie called him to ask why he wasn't out in California partying with him on the night that he died.

And so much more solidifying their close relationship, you don't want to buy it or act like you're championing the memory of Biggie by bagging on Jay, but let's be clear, I have the facts, I don't have the narrative against Jay and vendetta to make it seem like he undeservedly stumbled into success.

Jay came in the game a boss unlike Biggie, would he have been as unchallenged had Biggie lived? Nope, but he wouldn't have failed and would have continued to rise as a rapper and a businessman.

You guys are always creating narratives born from ignorance of Jay's life and fill in the blanks with things to make him look bad.

What are your thought's on being wrong on everything involving Jay and Biggie just because you want to hate on Jay?
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whew go easy on em
LionPride said:
I think I ain't shit. My opinions on music are trash and is propped up by trash. I am trash. I've never been good.
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LionPride said:
Fuck me. That's all. I am trash-incarnate.
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wow
 
D

DasPenguin

Member
Marquis said:
Just further proving that he is the GOAT. As if we even needed anymore evidence.
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Personal opinions and all. Started listening to hip hop in 1986. When Reasonable Doubt came out it was an "ok" record for me. Jay is like Mariah Carey or Michael Jackson: you don't think you own a lot of his records, then you look and you have like a pile of them.

Still not even close to being my GOAT and none of his albums would make my top ten list.
 
B

Bounceounce

Member
IrishNinja said:
Jay fell off as an MC nearly as hard as Eminem, but the front half of his catalog is fire & he's arguably got multiple classics under him. glad to see dude get it, he stays a top 10 artist.

#NasWon for reasons not limited to still being able to put out a great album, but let the camel have his day~



that's some really unfortunate taste you've got there



man, as a huge biggie fan, it's sad seeing you have to lay out history like this...this stuff should really be well known

say what you want about jay (i clearly just did, haha) but it's crazy to diminish what he brought or act like he tainted shit. i mean, even when cam'ron was on about being a biter/not a writer like half the bars jay was accused of jacking, i never got the beef with: it's like, jay purposely took shit that's really well known, and would try to spin it into his own shit.
that's homage. tons of MC's (especially form that era) did that, never knew why jigga got singled out on it
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Biggie was my favorite rapper prior to it being Kendrick and then Jay.
Big isn't in my top five anymore but he's still one of favorites so I try to be on the up and up for both of them.
It's a common tactic to try and use Biggies memory to either discredit Jay's rise to success, act as though Big was his father, or act as though they were never really friends.
 
N

NEO0MJ

Member
LionPride said:
I think Nasir Jones ain't shit. I think his music is trash and is propped up as good by people who don't actually listen to what is going on with those trash ass songs amd just base it off of their nostalgia. Nas isn't good. Has never been good.
Click to expand...

I'm not a big hip hop fan but I agree. Jay was better, just like Big was better than Pac.
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
ActWan said:
Well I guess he deserves it for Reasonable Doubt, at least.
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good album but Black Album >>>>>
you could make an argument for Blueprint as well

Bounceounce said:
It's a common tactic to try and use Biggies memory to either discredit Jay's rise to success, act as though Big was his father, or act as though they were never really friends.
Click to expand...

i mean fuck, The Commission was set to be those 2 and who again, Charli Baltimore? they're on shared tracks & almost were in a supegroup, anyone arguing this just doesn't know their shit
 
2

2real4tv

Member
LionPride said:
I think Nasir Jones ain't shit. I think his music is trash and is propped up as good by people who don't actually listen to what is going on with those trash ass songs amd just base it off of their nostalgia. Nas isn't good. Has never been good.
Click to expand...

You are a rare breed I have never heard anyone say Nas is trash.
 
T

The Salt Life

Banned
End of the day Jay is overrated AF when compared to his peers when it comes to skill and flow. I'm not going to argue with Touchdown about this anymore. Congrats to Jay-z I guess? Seems political and SAFE as shit choice though.

Guess they can't put Nas or Rakim up there, they might go off script when accepting it.
 
B

Bounceounce

Member
GodOnlyNose said:
End of the day Jay is overrated AF when compared to his peers when it comes to skill and flow. I'm not going to argue with Touchdown about this anymore. Congrats to Jay-z I guess? Seems political and SAFE as shit choice though.

Guess they can't put Nas or Rakim up there, they might go off script when accepting it.
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Yah because Nas and Rakim are more black than Jay and do/care more about uplifting Black America than Jay.
Jay's been preaching and acting out the same message he stated in the last line of Can't Knock The Hustle since day one.
Though I guess people want Jay to compromise his capital and become a hotep activist or something.
This isn't a competition between Jay and Nas.
Do you even know what he's tackling currently?
 
S

Smooth Operator

Member
He's right. Pac was a good poet, good rapper, good actor, etc...

Big was just a rapper, but he was better at it than Pac. Better skills, better storytelling...
 
T

The Salt Life

Banned
Bounceounce said:
Yah because Nas and Rakim are more black then Jay/do and care more about uplifting black America than Jay.
Jay's been preaching and acting out the same message he stated in the last line of Can't Knock The Hustle since day one.
Though I guess people want Jay to compromise his capital and become a hotep activist or something.
This isn't a competition between Jay and Nas.
Do you even know what he's tackling currently?
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I don't want Jay to be an activist, but it wouldn't hurt for him to drop a "Black Zombies" every now and then. You know, drop something with substance

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8zHMmvYrLNo

I would love to point out that Jay has a history of being shitty to his friends and allies, but he is just as bad as Nas in that regard.
 
B

Bounceounce

Member
GodOnlyNose said:
I don't want Jay to be an activist, but it wouldn't hurt for him to drop a "Black Zombies" every now and then. You know, drop something with substance

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8zHMmvYrLNo

I would love to point out that Jay has a history of being shitty to his friends and allies, but he is just as bad as Nas in that regard.
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So drop a Shiny Suit Theory, We Made It, or Murder To Excellence, Devil Is A Lie, FUTW, or Oceans etc?

And I largely disagree with the belief that Jay is bad to his friends/allies and believe that a lot of the circumstances used to label Jay a snake are more nuanced than most claim or are just false.
Not that he's faultless or anything, but that he's not the devil and or a bad friend.
There's also the fact that most times I see people attacking Jay for being a "snake" or whatever seem to believe he has no friends or brought no one with him when Jay has plenty of pre-rap friends still with him today that they're ignorant to existing.
Glad you mentioned Nas's personal issues, people seem to just ignore them or accepting that he's right in those situations while attacking Jay right as Nas if making diss tracks totally breaking them down.
Not that I agree with him being especially bad either, just the unfair differences in public perception.
 
S

StylusX

Member
Jay most definitely deserve to be in there but not before people like Rakim, nas, KRS-One, Posdnuos, Pharoahe Monch, Ice Cube, Common...
 
T

The Salt Life

Banned
Bounceounce said:
So drop a Shiny Suit Theory, We Made It, or Murder To Excellence, Devil Is A Lie, FUTW, or Oceans etc?
I largely disagree with the belief that Jay is bad to his friends/allies/believe a lot of the circumstances are more nuanced than most claim or are just false, not that he's faultless but that he's not the devil and or a bad friend.
Glad you mentioned Nas's personal issues, people seem to just ignore them or accepting that he's right in those situations while attacking Jay right as Nas if making diss tracks totally breaking them down.
Not that I agree with him being especially bad either, just the unfair differences in public perception.
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Jaz/Dehaven/Dame/Beanie and Freeway

That's a list of people who either put him on, gave him street cred, helped him succeed in the business or were his attack dogs when he was too timid to go at his rivals. Stabbed all of them in the back. (Remeber when he shunned freeway from the group picture from all the rich white people down in Philly? Lord, photoshops for days) using Biggie's death as marketing. Unreal. If Big was alive he probaby would have burned him too.

I mean Nas was no better, he burned everyone in QB one way or another. Cormega (whom if he had a better flow would be better than Nas) Nature, Screwball, the list goes on.

Safe pick by people who dont know jack about hip hop is totally expected.
 
T

The Salt Life

Banned
Enter The 36 Chambers said:
Since when does being a good friend have anything to with being a good emcee
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Nothing, but it shows character, and makes some of those lyrics sbout being loyal to your crew sound utterly ridiculous in hindsight.

My point still stands, people that know nothing about hip hop voted him in. Popularty does not mean skills.
 
P

Psychological Intellect

Banned
Jay gets a lot of hate from nobodies because of his popularity. Anyone saying Jay is overrated or doesnt deserve this should listen to his discog. His pen game cannot be questioned.

One of the best writers of our tike.
 
E

Enter The 36 Chambers

Member
GodOnlyNose said:
Nothing, but it shows character, and makes some of those lyrics sbout being loyal to your crew sound utterly ridiculous in hindsight.

My point still stands, people that know nothing about hip hop voted him in. Popularty does not mean skills.
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So you think jay z isn't skilled?

Seems like your basing your opinion on his character rather than the objective fact that he's a talented emcee
 
B

Bounceounce

Member
GodOnlyNose said:
Jaz/Dehaven/Dame/Beanie and Freeway

That's a list of people who either put him on, gave him street cred, helped him succeed in the business or were his attack dogs when he was too timid to go at his rivals. Stabbed all of them in the back. (Remeber when he shunned freeway from the group picture from all the rich white people down in Philly? Lord, photoshops for days) using Biggie's death as marketing. Unreal. If Big was alive he probaby would have burned him too.

I mean Nas was no better, he burned everyone in QB one way or another. Cormega (whom if he had a better flow would be better than Nas) Nature, Screwball, the list goes on.

Safe pick by people who dont know jack about hip hop is totally expected.
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Why is Jay at fault in any of the situations you listed?
Please post your arguments.
I have an answer to them but I need to know why you believe what you believe.
Where's the evidence that Jay mistreated Jaz, where's the evidence that he mistreated De'Haven, why are Beans and Dame saintified, and what the hell did he do to Freeway?
I know what Jay's accused of doing to those other people, but you're literally putting Freeway (who Jay is still friends with) who continues to praise Jay, performed/hung out with him, and has joked about the situation you're referencing up there why?

Jay literally invited him out to the festival and called him on stage personally:
http://www.sohh.com/freeway-breaks-...hia-photo-snub-people-wanna-make-jokes-video/
 
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