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[BaronLundi]

Gibson certainly doesn't portray all indians as evil savages. The movie makes a sharp distinction between the peaceful tribe the protagonist belongs to, and the antagonistic tribe that enslaves hem so they can ritually sacrifice them. Jaguar Paw, his pregnant wife and his tribe were portrayed as good people living in an idyllic world, it's almost a paradise. The view of the conquistadors' ships was only a reminder the world that was shown in the movie was going to change for ever. Nothing more. It's just silly how you can conclude from just that shot of a few boats that Gibson meant to say that all indians were inherently evil and that Christianity is going to save them. Ridiculous.

Besides that, there have been indian civilizations including the Aztecs in south America that did sacrifice humans by the thousands. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice_in_Aztec_culture The Aztecs did fight wars in order to capture people for their ceremonial sacrifices. Pleas read up on the Flower Wars.

Mixing up Aztecs with Maya is as negligible as confusing Romans with Celts or Turks with Arabs.

Thank you for proving my point.

Not to distinguish between those civilizations is ridiculous, to consider they are not even worth being differentiated is insulting. It would be like saying the tens or hundreds of different civilizations populating "America" all kinda look the same so let's call them all indians. Oh wait...

Most western fiction depicts those people as if we didn't know anything about their history before Spanish conquest. And Apocalypto is a fine example of just that : basic entertainment at the expense of knowledge. Those people and their language are just a pretext.

By the way, the Spanish conquest is, in the film's own words, absolutely pivotal : "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within". Please consider the subtext of this opening quote with regards to the final shot of those "few boats" that would later bring conquistadors and to what we know about the arguments used to justify the colonisation and conversion.

Anyway, enough derailing the thread.

 

[EricHasNoPull]

Wow just read your post and I think with your "superior taste" and knowledge of the cinematic arts you totally changed my mind about this movie. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

I certainly consider it a very poor piece of cinematography.

I know what you mean, I mean how hard is it to shoot scenes of massive crowds (slaves) and pyramids from different elevations and such? too easy, what about on foot chase scenes in a thick jungle involving not just humans also a frikin Jaguar! how easy is that to shoot successfully? piece of cake! any mediocre filmmaker can do these, then there's also the waterfall scene, don't even get me started on that...

First, as a period piece it fails miserably since the depiction of Mayan civilisation is not only inaccurate but a completely dishonest fantasy.

Like Totally! I mean considering how Hollywood always gets Period pieces spot on with historic accuracy! See Troy, Dances with Wolves, Saving Private Ryan etc. I have no idea why this one was way off! and you would think a Good writer and director would be able to cover everything about, an ever evolving and changing civilization that lasted nearly 35 centuries in a two hour movie right?! but he doesn't. how sad is that?

I wouldn't mind if the movie presented itself just as mindless fun but it doesn't.

I know! there's nothing better than taking real ancient civilizations from our rich History and making mindless fun movies about them, I mean look how awesome the Mummy movies are right?
Maybe he should've made a sequel to "Apocalypto" two years later and called it "The Jaguar King", half panther half Mayan, all awesome! that would've kicked huge ass!

It pretends to give the viewer a glimpse of pre-colombian society and life : it's actually no more than a representation of a western's (and christian's) man fantasy. Gibson's is making everything up according to his own religious beliefs :

I know eh, subliminal Christian messages all over the place, the way they were torturing and whipping those slaves, it was definitely suppose to symbolize the torture of Jesus from his previous movie, right? and the Jaguar Paw is like the hand of the Christian God! totally dude!

Plus who says period pieces are allowed to take on any artistic licenses by telling a decent story, they should all be shot like documentaries and try to be as accurate as possible or they should not at all take themselves seriously and make "The Jaguar King".

how those savages were inherently evil and violent (and yet he is himself clearly and pathologically fascinated by violence) and how the conquistadors will eventually save them etc.

Yeah this movie totally ruined my view of the Mayans forever, before going into this movie, I thought Mayans were a peaceful , fun loving civilization that sang Kumbaya on top of the Pyramids and only ate veggies.

Meanwhile what does Mel Gibson make them do? he makes them brutally and violently capture and sacrifice slaves by pulling their beating hearts out and worship the sun, how evil, barbaric and inaccurate is that?

Although I don't exactly remember a scene where the conquistadors save them, I just remember them reaching the shore at the very end of the movie, and the main character telling his wife "we should retreat back into the forest and start a new beginning" Maybe you saw the extended version? The Director's Cut?

And then there's the stupid violence, which I don't mind in movies that don't take themselves seriously.

I will start keeping my eye open for violence in movies and make sure these movies aren't taking themselves seriously, if they are, I will just stop watching them right away, thanks for the tip

Gibson movies should actually be found in the "Christian Gore" section of horror flicks. Seriously

I didn't know such section existed in (video stores) sounds fun , is there a "Buddhist Gore" section? I am more inclined towards Buddhism, that would definitely get me excited!

Anyway thanks man, you really enlightened me with your impressive insight on this film.

It was a very honest, educated and unbiased take on the film, it wasn't at all fueled with your rage and hatred of Christians and the filmmaker, thanks, I'll keep an eye out for you in the Movie threads.. you know to learn...more.

 

[teruterubozu]

Just finished The Bounty (1984). Awesome flick. Wonder how Gibson felt during love scenes with the brown-skinned island girl.

 

[jaxword]

Anger

Why does his opinion make you so enraged? That post looked like it took an hour to write at least.

 

[EricHasNoPull]

Why does his opinion make you so enraged? That post looked like it took an hour to write at least.

half hour, well I am a fan of the film, anger hardly but you might say I am a little disturbed by people who think they are king sh*t when it comes to critiquing movies and they should be next in line to take Roger Ebert's job or something :lol

Spoiler

I'm merely having fun trolling this dude.

 

[BaronLundi]

:lol

Wow dude ! You sure know how to make a man feel extra special.

 

[EricHasNoPull]

thanks! Enjoy it while you can homie, since this is the last post I'll ever see from your bigoted ass...cheers

 

[Fusebox]

It was a good effort Eric, but ultimately futile considering BaronLundi is a movie-snob cliche.

I use him like a reverse movie review system, whenever he doesn't like a movie there's a very strong chance that I will like it.

 

[SUPREME1]

Not sure I can believe the word of a cash register dodger.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Whoa whoa whoa EricHasNoPull, in what way was Saving Private Ryan historically innacurate ouside of the obviously fictionalised character created to navigate through that history?

 

[BaronLundi]

It was a good effort Eric, but ultimately futile considering BaronLundi is a movie-snob cliche.

I use him like a reverse movie review system, whenever he doesn't like a movie there's a very strong chance that I will like it.

Always glad to be of use. I'd recommend you to watch "The last Airbender" if you haven't yet. It's total crap.

Whoa whoa whoa EricHasNoPull, in what way was Saving Private Ryan historically innacurate ouside of the obviously fictionalised character created to navigate through that history?

For Saving Private Ryan to be as historically inaccurate as Apocalypto it would only need feature the landing of chinese troops on the sandy beaches of Switzerland.

thanks! Enjoy it while you can homie, since this is the last post I'll ever see from your bigoted ass...cheers

EricHasNoPull
Banned
(12-20-2010, 04:04 PM)
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Well, I'm guessing it'll go both ways.