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[remember_spinal]

I can't believe there are people and JOURNALISTS who think Sony must put new God Of War and all future games
day one on PS+ so that gamers can buy it for 15$. because a lot of people would do that.
how many people would need to buy it for 15$ so that Sony could actually earn any money from that game ?
we are talking about 150-200 million dollar games, right ?
two games cost 120$. you pay 120$ a year for this service and get like 5 exclusives in one year. what sense does that make

btw. I would buy Capcom or Ubisoft. Ubisoft has a lot of teams around the world.
Deviation Games guys sound very positive and happy about their project. I have faith in that team. Sony should grab them while they are cheap

Deviation seems like a lock at this point, they already opened a second studio in Canada.

 

[ethomaz]

Just buy Take 2 already.
Makes the world burn.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

How about they invest in the studios they already have so they can become bigger? 1 or 2 games per generation is not good, Mr. Ryan.

I don't think you know how growth works here.

They are investing in the studios they already have, but internal growth can be limited. You have to make sure you're hiring the right people and maintaining your company culture. You aren't going to double the size of Naughty Dog overnight.

These games take so much time, it's really difficult to put out more than a couple AAA games (from scratch) a generation from each studio.

It's easier to buy a smaller studio and build it up and not directly impact the culture of an existing studio by throwing a bunch of new people into it, who might not fit or drastically change the culture. That said Naughty Dog has 61 open positions right now. That's more than some of these smaller studio's entire staff

 

[vivftp]

No template is needed, it's all about resources.

There are many times during a game's development when resources aren't being utilized and people have a lot of downtime. As games become more and more expensive, this is prohibitive.

By having multiple projects happening at a time, you can best utilize resources in a studio, especially as they grow.

I think this is another reason why Sony has invested in acquiring some support studios, who can help get games across the finish line without having to crunch.

With Valkyrie and Nixxes, Sony can maximize returns on their games, while keeping resources focused on what they do best.

I'm sure even Bluepoint can help some studios tremendously.

That's important yes, but having a proper management and organizational structure in place to allow multiple teams where people can flow from one project to another smoothly and efficiently is important. It seems SIE has struggled with this before and all of a sudden once Insomniac is acquired we see multiple SIE teams going multi-project. That's why I suspect they've taken lessons learned by Insomniac and adapted them to their other teams.

 

[adamsapple]

Just buy Take 2 already.
Makes the world burn.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Deviation seems like a lock at this point, they already opened a second studio in Canada.

I agree, I think Deviation is a high-value target. Based on LinkedIn they should have at least 118 employees already. That's sizable.

For context, 200 people work for Treyarch. 444 employees work for Infinity Ward, and 160 work for Sucker Punch.

They were founded in November of 2019 right before the pandemic started. They signed their publishing deal with Sony less than two years later. I don't think they're going to have much to show for a long time though. Looks like their game didn't enter into production until this year. I think you're looking at 2025-2026 release.

But that's the thing with these new studio acquisitions, they're almost certainly for the future i.e. PS6, future subscription services, than they are about PS5.

Bungie unlike Deviation games gives you what they have in their pipeline today. This is the longest Bungie has gone without publishing a game. I think that is significant and I also believe that they're going to have something to show extremely soon as a result.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I honestly think if deal with Activision goes through regulators, this is a move Sony has to make.

I think you get Take2 and you make the deal with Fifa for the Fifa license.

 

[Tarkus98]

Still think they should go for FromSoft. Take 'em out from under their existing parent co. if possible. They've done a lot of work with them. Hell grab Namco Bandi too.

 

[Godot25]

Gimme some of the organic growth again

/s

Didn't Hulst said that they are not in acquisition race with Microsoft few months ago?

But tell me last time when Sony exec said something and then make exactly opposite thing

 

[Mibu no ookami]

That's important yes, but having a proper management and organizational structure in place to allow multiple teams where people can flow from one project to another smoothly and efficiently is important. It seems SIE has struggled with this before and all of a sudden once Insomniac is acquired we see multiple SIE teams going multi-project. That's why I suspect they've taken lessons learned by Insomniac and adapted them to their other teams.

That just isn't based in reality.

For example, Naughty Dog had teams working on Last of Us and Uncharted 3. They then continued with Last of Us 2 and Uncharted 4.

It literally has nothing to do with Insomniac and has to do with Sony's studios reaching maturity.

The team that did Infamous or Sly Cooper could never have done Ghost of Tsushima. They've reached a new level of maturity. The game also took 6 years to make, which is a tremendous undertaking.

SIE has struggled with studios making multiple games, because they weren't consistently able to even have their studios put out games that were successful in the first place. You have to look at the entire history of SIE and their individual studios and see how they've come along or haven't come along.

They never had this level of success before and they've never had this level of investment before.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Still think they should go for FromSoft. Take 'em out from under their existing parent co. if possible. They've done a lot of work with them. Hell grab Namco Bandi too.

Why would Kadokawa sell FromSoftware, which is easily their most valuable asset as a company?

Do you know how much Namco Bandai would cost? What would the return be? What is their best studio? What IP do they own that would justify buying them?

 

[xHunter]

I honestly think if deal with Activision goes through regulators, this is a move Sony has to make.

I think you get Take2 and you make the deal with Fifa for the Fifa license.

Fifa license is a waste of money. People will still buy EAs game.

 

[remember_spinal]

Only reason I want a Fromsoft acquisition is because i want them to upgrade their engine and trade whatever tech Bluepoint has for their next game.

But on the other hand, all that can be done with a simple exclusive deal for their next game. I just don’t see why from or Kadokawa wouldn’t want to sell considering they are always looking for publishing for their games.

 

[March Climber]

one day sony and microsoft will buy every fucking studio until there is no one left to buy XD .

I've seen this movie before. It was awesome.

 

[Godot25]

I honestly think if deal with Activision goes through regulators, this is a move Sony has to make.

I think you get Take2 and you make the deal with Fifa for the Fifa license.

I'm sure Sony could muster 50 billions for Take 2...

/s

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Gimme some of the organic growth again

/s

Didn't Hulst said that they are not in acquisition race with Microsoft few months ago?

But tell me last time when Sony exec said something and then make exactly opposite thing

This was before the Activision deal that has very much triggered an arms race.

You act like making a statement means that it will always be true for the rest of time.

 

[DForce]

"MuH orGaNiC sTUdIO grOWTH!!" -Sony fans that aren't hypocrites rn

"SoNy CaNt AfFoRd ToO mAnY aCqUisItIoNs"- Xbox fanboys in every single Acquisition thread.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Fifa license is a waste of money. People will still buy EAs game.

EAs game will still be popular, but this gives you an opportunity to create a very successful if not market leading competitor to EA's game. That's obviously worth it for the right company. Soccer is the largest sport in the world and is growing rapidly in North America.

 

[Godot25]

This was before the Activision deal that has very much triggered an arms race.

You act like making a statement means that it will always be true for the rest of time.

He said it in late June. They were talking to Bungie for 6 months. I'm sure you can count.

From June they acquired 5 studios. I'm not saying they should not purchase anybody for a rest of time, but it is clear they were bullshiting. It's not first time this gen...

 

[vivftp]

That just isn't based in reality.

For example, Naughty Dog had teams working on Last of Us and Uncharted 3. They then continued with Last of Us 2 and Uncharted 4.

It literally has nothing to do with Insomniac and has to do with Sony's studios reaching maturity.

The team that did Infamous or Sly Cooper could never have done Ghost of Tsushima. They've reached a new level of maturity. The game also took 6 years to make, which is a tremendous undertaking.

SIE has struggled with studios making multiple games, because they weren't consistently able to even have their studios put out games that were successful in the first place. You have to look at the entire history of SIE and their individual studios and see how they've come along or haven't come along.

They never had this level of success before and they've never had this level of investment before.

Whatever the reality of the situation is, we can all agree that more studios becoming multi-project is a win for everyone. We're only guessing at how things played out.

Why would Kadokawa sell FromSoftware, which is easily their most valuable asset as a company?

Do you know how much Namco Bandai would cost? What would the return be? What is their best studio? What IP do they own that would justify buying them?

Sony buying all of Kadokawa is far more likely given their push into anime.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Only reason I want a Fromsoft acquisition is because i want them to upgrade their engine and trade whatever tech Bluepoint has for their next game.

But on the other hand, all that can be done with a simple exclusive deal for their next game. I just don’t see why from or Kadokawa wouldn’t want to sell considering they are always looking for publishing for their games.

I think you have to look at the history of FromSoftware and Kadokawa here. Kadokawa is not a major video game publisher and to date there hasn't really been an opportunity for them to do so.

Kadokawa bought FromSoftware in 2014.

At this point their most popular game is Dark Souls, which is IP owned by Namco Bandai not Kadokawa. Bloodborne was already in development when Kadokawa bought them. And Sekiro was probably in discussions.

Elden Ring is a sign to Kadokawa that they can probably do this without Namco Bandai or any other publisher and make serious money. So we'll see now what their next steps are. My guess is that they'll look to cut out the middle man soon, so unless someone buys Kadokawa, I think they'll go out on their own in the near future. Maybe not their next game if they've already signed a deal, but soon after that at least.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I'm sure Sony could muster 50 billions for Take 2...

/s

I mean, yeah, that wouldn't be difficult lol

 

[Dick Jones]

"MuH orGaNiC sTUdIO grOWTH!!" -Sony fans that aren't hypocrites rn

The only purchase Sony made recently where there wasn't an almost exclusive partnership was Bungie. Bungie will operate independently post acquisition and be able to publish on any platform they desire. I'm okay with that method, don't know why you have an issue.

The only difference is Sony can harness Bungie's expertise with other Sony Studios with difficulty breaking GAAS and first person shooters. No one is losing with that acquisition.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Whatever the reality of the situation is, we can all agree that more studios becoming multi-project is a win for everyone. We're only guessing at how things played out.



Sony buying all of Kadokawa is far more likely given their push into anime.

Studios becoming multiproject is good if the quality is good.

I do think Sony would have to buy Kadokawa in order to buy FromSoftware and I think their publishing of manga and anime would have to be taken into consideration. Makes way more sense for Sony Group than it does for SIE.

 

[remember_spinal]

I think you have to look at the history of FromSoftware and Kadokawa here. Kadokawa is not a major video game publisher and to date there hasn't really been an opportunity for them to do so.

Kadokawa bought FromSoftware in 2014.

At this point their most popular game is Dark Souls, which is IP owned by Namco Bandai not Kadokawa. Bloodborne was already in development when Kadokawa bought them. And Sekiro was probably in discussions.

Elden Ring is a sign to Kadokawa that they can probably do this without Namco Bandai or any other publisher and make serious money. So we'll see now what their next steps are. My guess is that they'll look to cut out the middle man soon, so unless someone buys Kadokawa, I think they'll go out on their own in the near future. Maybe not their next game if they've already signed a deal, but soon after that at least.

Like someon else said Kadokawa and Sony have a lot of overlapping business, not just in gaming but other media like anime. Theres no way I believe that Kadokawa would just sell Fromsoftware and wipe their hands of it. If anything Sony proper would just buy Kadokawa and SIE would publish Spike Chunsoft and Fromsoftwares games.

Kadokawa isn’t a huge company either, they would be around the same price as Bungie.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I'm sure Sony could muster 50 billions for Take 2...

/s

Not sure where you got 50 billion for Take2.

Their market capital is 17.53 billion. That's a huge premium to get to 50 billion.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Like someon else said Kadokawa and Sony have a lot of overlapping business, not just in gaming but other media like anime. Theres no way I believe that Kadokawa would just sell Fromsoftware and wipe their hands of it. If anything Sony proper would just buy Kadokawa and SIE would publish Spike Chunsoft and Fromsoftwares games.

Kadokawa isn’t a huge company either, they would be around the same price as Bungie.

Their market cap alone is 4.59 billion, with a modest premium you're looking at at least 6 billion dollars, not including retention and for what? Primarily FromSoftware?

Hidetaka Miyazaki is 48 years old. What happens if he retires, gets poached by another company, leaves to start his own company, gets hit by a bus?

 

[DeadOblivion78]

I've seen this movie before. It was awesome.

That is a great movie. His best work imo.

 

[Godot25]

Not sure where you got 50 billion for Take2.

Their market capital is 17.53 billion. That's a huge premium to get to 50 billion.

17.53 billion is without Zynga since that merger is not yet completed. Zynga is 10 billion. So you are at approx 30 billion without premium.

So yeah. 45-50 billion is realistic. Expecially since GTA is targeting 2024 and expectation of success of this game will drive stock price up.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Insomniac has proven capable of amazing productivity, no doubt about it, in only a few months they released Miles Morales, Spider-Man Remastered and Ratchet and Clank RA. Unfortunately that hasn't been the case for other studios, Santa Monica and Polyphony have developed just one game last gen and others like Sucker Punch, Guerrilla and Naughty Dog just two. All of them very high quality titles that I really enjoyed, and of course I know quality takes time, but come on...

Correction: Naughty Dog actually put 4 games last generation: TLOU remastered (+ Left Behind DLC), Uncharted 4, Uncharted Lost Legacy, and TLOU II.

Also, Sucker Punch released InFamous: Second Son, InFamous First Light, and Ghost of Tsushima (+ standalone GoT Legends). They also wasted some time working on that canceled new IP, Prophecy.

 

[Rivet]

They've been growing all their studios for the past 3 years and many of them are now multi-project. That's the organic part. The thing that many people miss is that each time they've said "organic growth" it was immediately followed by "and select acquisition". The internet seems to have selective amnesia when it comes to that which is why we keep seeing this nonsense being brought up over and over.

Yes, among all the dumb things fanboys say, this thing about organic growth is one of the most stupid ones.

Sony never said they would only do organic growth. Nearly every successful corp does both organic growth AND acquisitions. I don't see where the problem is outside of idiotic fanboyism. They never said otherwise.

Sony is still growing most of their teams organically by the way.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

17.53 billion is without Zynga since that merger is not yet completed. Zynga is 10 billion. So you are at approx 30 billion without premium.

So yeah. 45-50 billion is realistic. Expecially since GTA is targeting 2024 and expectation of success of this game will drive stock price up.

Not how it works lol

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Sony overpaid for Bungie because Bungie checks A LOT of boxes for them.

Say Elden Ring sells 20 million copies (I doubt it will, but let's conjecture).

That's 1.2 billion dollars in revenue, but now you have to account for the balanced equation. Elden Ring sold 40% of it's 12 million copies so far on PlayStation consoles. That's 4.8 million copies. If we assume Elden Ring sells 20 million copies and maintains that ratio, that would be 8 million copies on PlayStation consoles.

8 million * 60 (assuming that everyone buys it at full price, which we know they won't) is 480 million in revenue, 30 percent of which belongs to sony already (though we know not everyone bought digitally) That's 144 million dollars in revenue.

So Sony gets 144 million in revenue without spending a dime on Kadokawa vs getting 1.2 billion after spending 6 billion dollars on them.

Now we have to assume whether Sony owning From via Kadokawa could make a sequel to Elden Ring (without using the Elden Ring name) and have it be as successful, paying for the development of the game, and even if that game went on to sell 20 million copies it would only generate at most 1.2 billion dollars. It'll take a long time to get back to 6 billion.

Does the rest of Kadokawa's revenue mitigate the risks involved here? I don't know.

Is there greater ROI to be had with smaller purchases and bigger purchases? I think so.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

17.53 billion is without Zynga since that merger is not yet completed. Zynga is 10 billion. So you are at approx 30 billion without premium.

So yeah. 45-50 billion is realistic. Expecially since GTA is targeting 2024 and expectation of success of this game will drive stock price up.

That isn't how market capital works and the value of GTA6 may already be baked into Take2's current stock price.

Not how it works lol

You beat me to it.

 

[Captain Toad]

Thought he believed in growing studios organically? What happened jim?

Whynotboth.jpg

 

[xHunter]

EAs game will still be popular, but this gives you an opportunity to create a very successful if not market leading competitor to EA's game. That's obviously worth it for the right company. Soccer is the largest sport in the world and is growing rapidly in North America.

The Fifa license only gives the publisher access to the name. Everything else they have to buy too. The name alone is not worth the 250 million dollars per year Fifa wants.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The Fifa license only gives the publisher access to the name. Everything else they have to buy too. The name alone is not worth the 250 million dollars Fifa wants.

It's worth it if it works.

 

[ToadMan]

It can take months for deals to finalize and go through regulatory approval. They can't legally say they own Bungie til it's done hence the mention of being in talks.

Not yet. The deal is not final yet.

They continue growing them organically: all their internal teams have a lot of job positions open and have been hiring a lot of people in the recent months or years. Their goal is allow their studios work in more games at the same time.

Other than this, most of the recently acquired teams like Housemarque, Firesprite (+Fabrik), Blue Point, Nixxes, Valkyrie, Bungie or Lasengle also have a long tradition of partnering with / working for them.


Means that during months they have to do paperwork and regulatory approvals, as happens with any big acquisition.

It hasn't closed. The deal was announced pending closing conditions and regulatory approval, so you can expect it could take some time. They can't really do business with them until the deal closes, which is why you won't see anything announced by SIE for Bungie until it does.

Thanks guys. Yes I get the way the process works - but “in discussions” just seem like the wrong words to describe where the status of this transaction now. Discussions is what one might do before getting down to negotiations, which themselves precede a deal agreed subject to regulatory approval.

The deal is agreed subject to regulatory approval - it’s a contractual and regulatory matter, not still in discussions with Bungie as I understood it. So that’s why I asked. Anyway ok I guess

 

[Arioco]

Correction: Naughty Dog actually put 4 games last generation: TLOU remastered (+ Left Behind DLC), Uncharted 4, Uncharted Lost Legacy, and TLOU II.

Also, Sucker Punch released InFamous: Second Son, InFamous First Light, and Ghost of Tsushima (+ standalone GoT Legends). They also wasted some time working on that canceled new IP, Prophecy.

TLOU wasn't a new game, just a remaster from PS3, and The Lost Legacy and First Light are expansions to Uncharted 4 and InFamous Second Son more than new games.

Do you consider Left Behind as a new game for PS3? Well, for the same reasons I'm not including First Light.

 

[SlimySnake]

Thought he believed in growing studios organically? What happened jim?

Where have you been the past few years with MS gobbling up entire publishers? 8 studios in Zenimax alone. Another 20 in the Activision acquisition.

Time for organically growing anything is gone. If he wants to survive, he needs to spend. Hell, it might be too late as it is. They are probably acquiring everyone under the sun so they can repackage the PS brand and sell it after acquiring more value.

 

[MonarchJT]

i mean there isnt a single player in publisher world that will say "we are done with acquisitions".....ok we saw you get the new studio of jade r.

 

[tmlDan]

Where have you been the past few years with MS gobbling up entire publishers? 8 studios in Zenimax alone. Another 20 in the Activision acquisition.

Time for organically growing anything is gone. If he wants to survive, he needs to spend. Hell, it might be too late as it is. They are probably acquiring everyone under the sun so they can repackage the PS brand and sell it after acquiring more value.

that last part is one of the dumbest things i've read on this forum.

 

[Swift_Star]

Reading the thread you can see that some people are panicking over this. I thought acquisitions were good.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Thanks guys. Yes I get the way the process works - but “in discussions” just seem like the wrong words to describe where the status of this transaction now. Discussions is what one might do before getting down to negations, which themselves precede a deal agreed subject to regulatory approval.

The deal is agreed subject to regulatory approval - it’s a contractual and regulatory matter, not still in discussions with Bungie as I understood it. So that’s why I asked. Anyway ok I guess

It's also pending closing conditions that we aren't aware of.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

June.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Jim wouldn't just say in a random pr statement that they are looking for a publisher. It wouldn't make sense.

When you buy a publisher it's because of the studios they have. That's what you want to get...

Makes sense, I think they should considering publishers like Activision getting bought.


And you also buy a publisher for the IP’s.
Certain IP’s have the power to keep you in the gaming industry for a long time. IP like Resident Evil, Tekken, Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter, are gonna always sell decent if developed half well.

 

[SlimySnake]

that last part is one of the dumbest things i've read on this forum.

I am devastated by that.

 

[Infamy v1]

Reading the thread you can see that some people are panicking over this. I thought acquisitions were good.

It's always hilarious to see comments like this from fanboys projecting. There is nobody "panicking" over what was known for a long time now. Jim hasn't stated anything new and Sony absolutely needs to acquire to stay toe-to-toe with Microsoft, who is 100% guaranteed to make more acquisitions after ABK. Sony also wants to be more GaaS heavy and their aspirations are not possible with their current studios (hence why they overpaid so much for Bungie and gave concessions for the first time ever). Acquisitions are a given.

 

[MHubert]

He also "believed in generations" and look how many cross-gen playstation exclusives that bagged us.

Which is no different from how they have been doing it for the past 25 or so years. I dont get why some of you think that statement means that all games were going to be next gen exclusive.

 

[Infamy v1]

Which is no different from how they have been doing it for the past 25 or so years. I dont get why some of you think that statement means that all games were going to be next gen exclusive.

Can't tell if you're that gullible or if you are pretending that Jimmyboy didn't push that narrative right when Xbox was getting a metric ton of flack from gamers and media for their cross-platform messaging, all the while hiding all the PS5 cross-platform news (which was actually more egregious) until way after the fact.

That's the reason "we believe in generations" is mocked, FYI. But something tells me you already know that.