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[LuchaShaq]

For example, with Dragon's Crown, someone who has issues with the Amazon & Sorceress visuals but who still wants to play the game might think they'll avoid the problem by just picking a different character, not realizing that the female NPC art is just as bad.

.

Ding ding ding.

I almost bought it off amazon before reading her review and just figured I would play as the Fighter/Elf since the amazon/dwarf/sorceress designs were grotesque and super duper creepy in my eyes.

The fact that it has similar/worse shit with NPC's means I'll wait for it to be on ps+ in 2 years or gamefly.

 

[MogCakes]

Thumbs up to Atlus's PR. Especially the 'respect their opinion and form your own' part. Emphasis on 'form your own'.

 

[antitrop]

Ding ding ding.

I almost bought it off amazon before reading her review and just figured I would play as the Fighter/Elf since the amazon/dwarf/sorceress designs were grotesque and super duper creepy in my eyes.

The fact that it has similar/worse shit with NPC's means I'll wait for it to be on ps+ in 2 years or gamefly.

Why don't you just not play it at all? I can't possibly fathom how moral outrage factors into how much money you're willing to spend on something.

 

[RMI]

Ding ding ding.

I almost bought it off amazon before reading her review and just figured I would play as the Fighter/Elf since the amazon/dwarf/sorceress designs were grotesque and super duper creepy in my eyes.

huh? what's creepy about the dwarf?

 

[Riposte]

I'm just making fun of Jim since he's bad at reviewing games, too.

Yeah, he is a Gies tier reviewer. Terrible. He should probably just stick to the whole "complaining about things outside videogames" thing since he seems pretty good at it though.

 

[Pikma]

Yo Jim, don't make the same mistake as some posters on here and assume that GAF is a single entity. There are a lot of different people who do not participate in this nonsense.

Only the bad people matters yo, we're all cro magnon and shit in this forum, didn't you know.

 

[KingKong]

huh? what's creepy about the dwarf?

makes me question if I even lift

 

[Andrew.]

makes me question if I even lift

 

[NoirVisage]

Yeah, he is a Gies tier reviewer. Terrible. He should probably just stick to the whole "complaining about things outside videogames" thing since he seems pretty good at it though.

I'll have to stop you there, Jim actually plays games. Comparing Jim to Gies is like comparing a egg MCmuffin to feces on a stick.

Ding ding ding.

I almost bought it off amazon before reading her review and just figured I would play as the Fighter/Elf since the amazon/dwarf/sorceress designs were grotesque and super duper creepy in my eyes.

The fact that it has similar/worse shit with NPC's means I'll wait for it to be on ps+ in 2 years or gamefly.

Are you waiting for the uproar to die down so no one will care enough about it to tell you to be offended?

 

[Karsticles]

Yeah, he is a Gies tier reviewer. Terrible. He should probably just stick to the whole "complaining about things outside videogames" thing since he seems pretty good at it though.

He was kind of questionable to me when I first started reading him, but I could see where he was coming from sometimes.

Then I read his Kid Icarus review:
http://www.destructoid.com/review-kid-icarus-uprising-224073.phtml

That is literally the best original handheld game of all time, right next to TWEWY. A goddamn 5/10 because he couldn't figure out the controls?

You are right that his non-gaming stuff is usually better. He may just be a reasonably intelligent person who is bad at video games.

Spoiler

AKA the average GAF poster.

 

[meltingparappa]

Got me good, you two.

 

[Lyot]

Ding ding ding.

I almost bought it off amazon before reading her review and just figured I would play as the Fighter/Elf since the amazon/dwarf/sorceress designs were grotesque and super duper creepy in my eyes.

The fact that it has similar/worse shit with NPC's means I'll wait for it to be jon ps+ in 2 years or gamefly.

Better to play some mass murderer simulators , and keep your moral ground clean.

 

[RoninChaos]

Better to play some mass murderer simulators , and keep your moral ground clean.

I guess every character you hit with an axe in this game is just knocked out, huh?

 

[Coffee Dog]

Ding ding ding.

I almost bought it off amazon before reading her review and just figured I would play as the Fighter/Elf since the amazon/dwarf/sorceress designs were grotesque and super duper creepy in my eyes.

The fact that it has similar/worse shit with NPC's means I'll wait for it to be on ps+ in 2 years or gamefly.

I love that you aren't offended enough not to play the game at all. What's the price tag on your morals? $15?

 

[Lyot]

I guess every character you hit with an axe in this game is just knocked out, huh?

That's not the problem he has with this game. He's clearly offended by boobs, not with a dwarf smashing heads.

 

[NoirVisage]

That's not the problem he has with this game. He's clearly offended by boobs, not with a dwarf smashing heads.

until its cheaper of course.
naturally.

 

[antitrop]

I love that you aren't offended enough not to play the game at all. What's the price tag on your morals? $15?

It's almost as ridiculous as factoring moral outrage into a review score!

 

[Lyot]

until its cheaper of course.
naturally.

Needs to be free, like porn on the Internet. I'd be morally upset to pay for a Tori Black DVD.

 

[ToyBroker]

Jim throwing down life lessons from his white throne above us peons.

"If I can handle not getting upset over a bad review, you can too!"

 

[NoirVisage]

Needs to be free, like porn on the Internet. I'd be morally upset to pay for a Tori Black DVD.

Ha HA!
That's more an Ethical issue

 

[Shai-Tan]

Yeah, he is a Gies tier reviewer. Terrible. He should probably just stick to the whole "complaining about things outside videogames" thing since he seems pretty good at it though.

Arthur Gies is very outspoken but I think his reviews are generally pretty good. What objectionable review has he written? Most of the controversial reviews I've read on the site were written by other people.

Jim Sterling is a provocateur so this kind of commentary gig is more suited to him as it gets page hits and he can be as tendentious as he wants. When he was reviewing the only way to get a lot of hits was to be intentionally contrarian.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Arthur Gies is very outspoken but I think his reviews are generally pretty good. What objectionable review has he written? Most of the controversial reviews I've read on the site were written by other people.

Jim Sterling is a provocateur so this kind of commentary gig is more suited to him as it gets page hits and he can be as tendentious as he wants. When he was reviewing the only way to get a lot of hits was to be intentionally contrarian.

You really feel that declaring Diablo III makes Diablo II irrelevant isn't controversial (which Gies said in his review)?

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

You really feel that declaring Diablo III makes Diablo II irrelevant isn't controversial (which Gies said in his review)?

I call it comedy.

 

[Hooflung128]

I watched the video and then went to Polygon to read the review afterwards. I didn't even know Polygon gave the game a low score until I watched Jim's video.

After reading it, I can totally understand why the reviewer gave it the score they chose but it was also reviewed by a woman. I'm curious how the actual guys on the crew feel about it. That being said, she is completely welcome to criticize the game for it's art style and objectification of women (which, let's be honest, it totally is sexist) and I see nothing wrong with the review on that basis.

The only problem I had with the review is that she didn't seem to talk about a lot of the deeper gameplay mechanics and spent too much time talking about the art style; however, if the art style was the deciding factor of the quality of the game, I'm sure it would have received a much lower score than it did.

I remember before Uncharted 3 came out, people flipped out over a couple of lower review scores before the game released. Now that it has been on store shelves for a couple of years, most people consider it the worst of the series and probably would have scored it the same, if not lower. Ironic, dontcha think?

Except that men deal with just as much objectivity as women every single day. It is getting real old, real quick the amount of intellectual dishonesty a lot of people have in this day in age. No one ever complains about the 7 foot breeding stock warrior who has muscles with muscles unless it is to justify the hyper realized female critique.

Men deal with just as much shit as women when it comes to gender roles and expectations and when they are hyper realized. No one complained about the warriors in the old dungeons and dragons capcom game where Beefcake McGee wields swords and axes of justice with 18 pack abs. Why now when it is Boobs O'hoolihan's turn to take the LCD spotlight. Thin skins and a whoa is me society.

 

[BanGy.nz]

Hooflung128 - It's not the same, it just isn't. I'm sorry you can't see that but it isn't the same.

 

[Velcro Fly]

Except that men deal with just as much objectivity as women every single day. It is getting real old, real quick the amount of intellectual dishonesty a lot of people have in this day in age. No one ever complains about the 7 foot breeding stock warrior who has muscles with muscles unless it is to justify the hyper realized female critique.

Men deal with just as much shit as women when it comes to gender roles and expectations and when they are hyper realized. No one complained about the warriors in the old dungeons and dragons capcom game where Beefcake McGee wields swords and axes of justice with 18 pack abs. Why now when it is Boobs O'hoolihan's turn to take the LCD spotlight. Thin skins and a whoa is me society.

Not even close. Not even in the same solar system as the amount of shit women have to deal with. I'm no feminist, but I'm not blind either.

 

[Hooflung128]

Not even close. Not even in the same solar system as the amount of shit women have to deal with. I'm no feminist, but I'm not blind either.

That is a ver intellectually dishonest thing to say. I am not talking about the last hundred years I am talking about the last 30 or so sitcom era. Male upbringing in the US is just as bad as women's with the social stereo types. For you to say they are not even close demonstrates the point clearly. I am not talking about women's equal rights here. I am talking about objectification something that affects both genders equally. To imply that males have it easy while poor helpless women are still fighting like it was the 20s is putting blinders on and is easily more shovanistic as the material in question.

Edit: the type of discrepancy you imply simply doesn't exist and is just a lack of cross cultural communication.

 

[timetokill]

Oh boy oh boy oh boy
It's a good thing this thread has matured to this point or the dogpile would be rather severe.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Men deal with just as much shit as women when it comes to gender roles and expectations and when they are hyper realized.

I know I'm tired of being objectified into the female fantasy of the strong, intelligent, leader, hero, superpowered bad mother fucker. I am more than just muscles and good looks, damnit. I am not just some object to come protect and pleasure you women!

Damn it!

 

[FUME5]

Cho Aniki x Dragon's Crown. Winter 2015.

 

[Kinvara]

Are you waiting for the uproar to die down so no one will care enough about it to tell you to be offended?

I love that you aren't offended enough not to play the game at all. What's the price tag on your morals? $15?

Geez.

Lucha probably doesn't want to support the game financially due to the controversial designs so he'll either rent, buy it used, or get it for free thanks to PS+.

Just because a book, video game, film etc. has something you find offensive in it doesn't mean you'll never watch/read/play it. For example, if a film has a racist content in it, I won't pay to see it but if it is made available for free (like on cable tv) I might watch it to see how bad it really is so I have a truly informed opinion on it.

 

[Midou]

Holy shit, it's not about the score. This is why Jim is so irritating. It's not about the score, it's the reasons for the score, and the ridiculously offensive things that were said in the review. Any member would get banned here for calling Dragon's Crown what that reviewer said about it, and rightfully so. It's just disrespectful to a large number of people.

Yet there will surely be other people who have an opinion like that. If a part of a game causes a person to be upset by it and not be able to enjoy the game, they very well could dock it points. Like Jim also said, great graphics and art styles get praised and boost scores, if someone is offended by an art style, which is purely a subjective thing, it may be a huge negative to them.

Someone may be 'wrong' about a game, but unless they are factually incorrect (i.e saying you can't perform an action that you can perform) they are still entitled to believe or say whatever they want. You may proceed to ignore them and move on, and not get so upset about what someone who you don't consider credible says.

 

[Jimrpg]

Seems to me they are just after clicks... the review creates controversy...

if people really hate the review they won't go back to the site.... but they always do... just look at IGN.

 

[fallagin]

Jim, wheres podtoid? Podtoid? Podtoid? Podtoid.

Also pretty good video. Polygon did use some inflammatory language, no reason to totally obsess over it though.

 

[demidar]

That Uncharted 3 flipping out on Gaf was really the worst thing ever, and I'm glad Jim pointed that shit out. Jesus fucking Christ what an embarrassment.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Seems to me they are just after clicks... the review creates controversy...

if people really hate the review they won't go back to the site.... but they always do... just look at IGN.

It really doesn't seem like it to me reading the review. I've never been to their site before, and am all over the Arthur Gies hate train. But, the review itself seems pretty even handed in the positive/negative ratio, and I refuse to believe 6.5 is a "bad" score no matter how hysterical it makes certain people.

 

[ReiGun]

Seems to me they are just after clicks... the review creates controversy...

if people really hate the review they won't go back to the site.... but they always do... just look at IGN.

See, I don't get this. How does dissenting opinion = click bait? Especially with a review like this one that very clearly outlines the problems the reviewer had with the game that contributed to said score.

I hate this idea that all reviews must reflect the same thing and anyone who says otherwise is trolling/after clicks. There should be room for dissenting opinions without the suspicion of ulterior motives.

 

[Hooflung128]

I know I'm tired of being objectified into the female fantasy of the strong, intelligent, leader, hero, superpowered bad mother fucker. I am more than just muscles and good looks, damnit. I am not just some object to come protect and pleasure you women!

Damn it!

You can make a joke about it and try to imply I said it was a women's fantasy but I find it hard to suspend critical analysis and intellectual honesty in discussion about this topic.

I think it is more chauvinist to focus on the female struggle and to consider it taboo to think the problem could equally affect males. The struggle against what media has deemed quality, attractive and successful is there for all people and shades. If people cannot see the gap has been shortened to next to non-existent in the last 30 years then I can not say much more.

Just remember the next time you see an Al Bundy or a Donkey Lips around your town he's got it better than any woman could every hope to have it. /sarcasm

 

[PAULINK]

Its surprising that it took so long for someone prominent in the gaming media to point this out. The shitfest that happened all over the internet over the whole Twilight Princess 8.8 debacle made me feel uncomfortable, based on how immature every single person who cried over the review score and started bashing Jeff over a game they have never even played. Hilarious, but made me realize how childish it is to be offended by a low score.

Plus, Jim gives low scores here and there, so I'm surprised it's taken him so long to address this based on just that. I used to have a friend that was convinced that Jim purposely gave games low reviews because he was a hipster (I don't know either).

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

You can make a joke about it and try to imply I said it was a women's fantasy but I find it hard to suspend critical analysis and intellectual honesty in discussion about this topic.

I think it is more chauvinist to focus on the female struggle and to consider it taboo to think the problem could equally affect males. The struggle against what media has deemed quality, attractive and successful is there for all people and shades. If people cannot see the gap has been shortened to next to non-existent in the last 30 years then I can not say much more.

Just remember the next time you see an Al Bundy or a Donkey Lips around your town he's got it better than any woman could every hope to have it. /sarcasm

We have veered so far from the thread topic, and about something I usually give about no fucks about. But, seriously, I don't know how you could possibly think the plight of men in society is equal to women.

Men are told by media that they are to be strong and intelligent leaders. Women are told they are to be obedient and sexy objects for men to conquer and protect. Which one of those is kind of offensive?

 

[Dolphin_Butter]

I agree with Jim in terms of internet reaction, though I can't help but feel deflated when I lend a game to a friend and they say didn't enjoy it when they return it.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Ding ding ding.

I almost bought it off amazon before reading her review and just figured I would play as the Fighter/Elf since the amazon/dwarf/sorceress designs were grotesque and super duper creepy in my eyes.

The fact that it has similar/worse shit with NPC's means I'll wait for it to be on ps+ in 2 years or gamefly.

I guess you will vomit if you ever see a Game of Thrones episode if you find this game creepy or grotesque.

For example, with Dragon's Crown, someone who has issues with the Amazon & Sorceress visuals but who still wants to play the game might think they'll avoid the problem by just picking a different character, not realizing that the female NPC art is just as bad.

As bad? Her example is not only fully clothed but it's inspiration goes to classic art. Is the Venus of Milos porn by the reviewer standards then?.

Damn, this thread is like rewatching that Simpsons episode

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

As bad? Her example is not only fully clothed but it's inspiration goes to classic art. Is the Venus of Milos porn by the reviewer standards then?.

I'm sure a lot of people don't care that it's a reference, like that should somehow make it okay? If I say some offensive shit, but then say it was a reference to something, does that really make it okay? Especially since 90% of the audience isn't going to know it's a reference, they are just going to think it's another of the many overly sexualized women in the game.

And I kind of want to be clear since I've been posting in this thread a fuck ton all day, I'm not offended by this game. I think the girl with the crazy big chest is extremely stupid looking, but I don't find it offensive. If I still had a Vita I'd be buying this awesome looking game tomorrow. But, I get why some people do find it offensive, and I think it's okay for a reviewer to think it and communicate it in their review.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I'm sure a lot of people don't care that it's a reference, like that should somehow make it okay? If I say some offensive shit, but then say it was a reference to something, does that really make it okay? Especially since 90% of the audience isn't going to know it's a reference, they are just going to think it's another of the many overly sexualized women in the game.

And I kind of want to be clear since I've been posting in this thread a fuck ton all day, I'm not offended by this game. I think the girl with the crazy big chest is extremely stupid looking, but I don't find it offensive. If I still had a Vita I'd be buying this awesome looking game tomorrow. But, I get why some people do find it offensive, and I think it's okay for a reviewer to think it and communicate it in their review.

What's so offensive by a girl fully clothed on that pose which mimics classic art, except pure and stupid puritanism? What's more, classic art has way more nudity that every piece of Katamari's work in this game. Lumping this game in the same bin as DOA and most other otaku games with generic artstyle is te offensive thing here.

Being ignorant is neither a reason to find art offensive. Or at least it shouldn't be.

 

[MarkusRJR]

tbh I kind of hated Jim when he reviewed Kid Icarus: Uprising (because that game sold less than stellar since reviews were all negative despite the game being one of the best Nintendo games ever), but his video content has been really fantastic.

 

[medze]

I dont know where people get the ideas that reviews need to be completely objective. Is there some kind of reviewer's handbook you all have access to that I haven't seen? I think it'd be pretty awful if reviewers didn't give their own opinion on the game.

Some people would find Danielle's review insightful, including many people on GAF. How exactly does her opinion affect your enjoyment of the game?

Kudos to Sterling on this commentary, I'm glad someone with some clout brought up this embarrassing issue that often plagues the gaming community. He couldn't be more right.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

Did people flip out about soul calibur?

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

What's so offensive by a girl fully clothed on that pose which mimics classic art, except pure and stupid puritanism? What's more, classic art has way more nudity that every piece of Katamari's work in this game. Lumping this game in the same bin as DOA and most other otaku games with generic artstyle is te offensive thing here.

Being ignorant is neither a reason to find art offensive. Or at least it shouldn't be.

Because there is allegedly far more in the game then the one piece of work you are referencing, and people have already been all over this game since the sorceresses chest burst onto the scene.

Again, I'm not saying you are a pervy piece of shit if you are okay with every/any thing in this game. But, trying to pretend that there is absolutely nothing that can be viewed as sexist and offensive to women in the game is a stretch. I can get why someone, a woman especially, could look at this game and go "what the fuck!?" And all I've seen is the artwork for the main characters, which this person in their review says is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Htown]

Did people flip out about soul calibur?

You mean when it came out fifteen years ago? I don't know.

If you mean more recently, then yes, people have "flipped out" about the sexualization of the characters before:

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

^
Is her breast size really upgraded between two and three?