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[RoninChaos]

It is an easy target tbh, niche Japanese developer with a small publisher. I really doubt we would hear about this if it was EA or Activision tbh. Its a conspiracy theory sure, but I really do feel that way.

Do you have ANY proof to back up this notion? Because, frankly, we've seen what happens when big publishers have "controversial" things in their games. If we saw EA do this it would be covered by a lot more news outlets. Look at all the shit EA got for letting same sex relationships happen in a game. People were threatening to boycott their games, they were talking about it on the nightly news, etc.

If a giant publisher did this they'd catch major shit for it. Any time a major publisher doesn't something of note or something that could be found offensive, it's covered by the news. Look at the No Russian level, the hot coffee issue with San Andreas, etc. I don't even understand how you could say "Oh, they're going after the niche japanese developer! This wouldn't happen to anybody else" with a straight face. There are mountains of evidence to the countrary. If the game and it's depection of women doesn't offend you, that's fine, but it obviously does offend quite a few other folks and that's fine too. That's why we're having the discussion. But seriously, don't act like this is only happening because the developer is a small japanese company. That's utter horse shit.

 

[RoninChaos]

Is specific..., exactly like going after Dragon's Crown specifically. At least if you gonna aim at a single game, at least aim at the game that can have more impact.

Don't you think that a successful GTA game with a female lead character couldn't have way more benefit that bullying small japanese niche games?. It's about priority.

How is it bullying? That's an incredibly interesting word to use in regards to this discussion. Especially considering the outrage for this started with a review that gave the game an average score, and resulted in a heated discussion on this forum. There's been numerous examples given on why people feel the way they do. That's not bullying.

 

[frequency]

How is it bullying? That's an incredibly interesting word to use in regards to this discussion. Especially considering the outrage for this started with a review that gave the game an average score, and resulted in a heated discussion on this forum. There's been numerous examples given on why people feel the way they do. That's not bullying.

People always say that critics of anything are just nitpicking or specifically targeting whatever company unfairly.

Like any less than 9/10 Naughty Dog game for example. It's not possible that the person enjoyed the game less or had problems with the game. It must be an ulterior motive and that site or reviewer is really just out to get Sony!

When God of War Ascension was being discussed for "Bros before hos", people accused Adam Sessler and Polygon of unfairly targeting that game too.

It doesn't matter what game it is. If a person is a fan, they're going to feel like you're specifically targeting it and being unfair no matter how valid your points are.


Also the notion that we should turn a blind eye to things that are of concern just because the developer is smaller is ridiculous. Being small doesn't exempt you from criticism.

 

[Lyot]

Also the notion that we should turn a blind eye to things that are of concern just because the developer is smaller is ridiculous. Being small doesn't exempt you from criticism.

Nobody's said that. Many of us are stating what will probably occur; that a major game won't be called out for this (in the press) and it will be a big missed opportunity for a feminist standpoint.

 

[RoninChaos]

Nobody's said that. Many of us are stating what will probably occur; that a major game won't be called out for this (in the press) and it will be a big missed opportunity for a feminist standpoint.

Can you Name one mainstream game by a major publisher that has the same art style and sexual undertones that dragons crown has?

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Fans of the game shouldn't be upset at any controversy. It'll sell more copies because of it.

 

[Taiser]

When you get knocked down or stunned in Odin Sphere, you are not in any of these positions:

>snake biting the amazon in the tits

 

[Kinyou]

Man, that Uncharted 3 8.0 debacle was fucking terrible :lol

"You are the Electronic Arts of people" got me good

That was so embarrassing. Sometimes do the hardcore ND fans really scare me

 

[frequency]

Nobody's said that. Many of us are stating what will probably occur; that a major game won't be called out for this (in the press) and it will be a big missed opportunity for a feminist standpoint.

But people do not ignore it with major games. There was a lot of noise, for example, about "bros before hos" trophy and violence against women in God of War Ascension. It is true that gaming press did not make note of any of these issues in the past, but this is kind of a new thing that the press has started to pay attention to.

Outside of the gaming press, major, small, and anything in between has been discussed where issues exist. Just no one was listening. The case of Dragon's Crown is not really anything special. Those who speak against these kind of things are doing what they always do. The difference is forums like NeoGAF have been so vehemently defending it at every turn and so the conversation goes on and on rather than dying out as they usually do due to no one listening. (And I guess for that I am thankful)

Gaming press tackling of feminist issues is relatively new. I see it as a sign of the industry growing and acknowledging social issues in the art (as in any other art form). I guess we will see if the press continue to discuss this in other games going forward. But even if they do not, the conversation continues and people still call out problems when they exist. Just because you don't pay attention to them doesn't mean they're not speaking.

We should also note that I think only one review (from a site NeoGAF repeatedly states is trash and useless) has discussed this as a major negative of the game. I don't see any concerted effort to attack Dragon's Crown by the press.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I'm talking about now. Not months ago. That blog was posted now. Not months ago.

I don’t buy Jimmy John’s and I don’t pay for jiggly boobs. So maybe I am unfairly pointing out jiggly boobs here. It’s not so much the boobs that jiggle, but what they represent. The gratuitous sexuality and sexism that runs rampant in games. If your idea of making a female character better is to spend untold hours and dollars on making breasts jiggle and sway in time with music or some such foolishness then you apparently don’t want me to buy your game. I have nothing against breasts. I have a couple myself, but I am more than my breasts and I want the female protagonists in the games that I play to be more than theirs.

The blog goes on to talk about Lightning Returns and Toriyama's comments about how Lightning's breast jiggle. You're talking about the poses but that wasn't ever mentioned in the blog at all. That blog even goes on to specifically mention " Are we really back at a point where woman with overdeveloped (and ill covered) breasts and butts are seen as being acceptable in games" when talking about DC. Like I said, the main controversy was and still is (at least for the most part) surrounding DC is in how busty the Sorceress is. Not the poses that her or the Amazon are in during certain instances in the game.

 

[Raist]

While I agree with Jim that the overreactions about a game not getting perfect or near-perfect scores are rather silly, I think in this particular review's case it's the cries against sexism. I find it rather silly, considering that the character art is overall exagerated, and not just for women, nor entirely, as the elf isn't exactly sporting giant boobs/ass.

I don't get Kotaku's crusade against this game, as there are much more obvious and serious examples of sexism in gaming in general, and "trashing" the game just because of this seems rather stupid to me. If they want to go down that path, why not criticize the game some more for not having a native american or black character or something. IS the game racist because of that, Kotaku?

 

[frequency]

The blog goes on to talk about Lightning Returns and Toriyama's comments about how Lightning's breast jiggle. You're talking about the poses but that wasn't ever mentioned in the blog at all. That blog even goes on to specifically mention " Are we really back at a point where woman with overdeveloped (and ill covered) breasts and butts are seen as being acceptable in games" when talking about DC. Like I said, the main controversy was and still is (at least for the most part) surrounding DC is in how busty the Sorceress is. Not the poses that her or the Amazon are in during certain instances in the game.

I think we are interpreting her writing differently. Jiggling, by the way, is an animation. The rest of her blog or article or whatever talks a lot about action. I do not see her ever implying just a picture of large breasts is the worst thing ever. Her examples are of actions and representations and not of still art images.

I have nothing against breasts. I have a couple myself, but I am more than my breasts and I want the female protagonists in the games that I play to be more than theirs.

As an RPG junkie I have NEVER played a Penny Arcade game even though I think that I would be intrigued at the very least. Based on Penny Arcade‘s sexism, homophobia, and embracing of rape in their comics and forum it is no surprise to me that there are regularly reported sexual assaults at PAX cons. And while the folks in charge at PA, Tycho and Gabe, say that they don’t support any kind of violence against women or prejudice in general the very tone of their whole outfit uplifts it. How in the hell do they think that glorifying fruit raping robots, dickwolves, and other casually thrown about misogynistic, homophobic, and racist references not foster a community of bigots. And that is a community that will not be supported by my gaming dollar.

I couldn’t bear to play Red Dead Redemption after the prostitute was taunted, raped, and murdered in the middle of the street because I couldn’t save her fast enough

 

[Mzo]

Trying way too hard because of current trends.

Jim is right, talk about how great the game is and the positive reviews and let them wallow in their negativity.

edit: LOL @ Penny Arcade's "embracing of rape," hahahaha. What a deluded psycho.

 

[Kinyou]

I couldn’t bear to play Red Dead Redemption after the prostitute was taunted, raped, and murdered in the middle of the street because I couldn’t save her fast enough

Raped in the middle of the street? I don't recall anything like this ever happening. There are some scenes where prostitutes get attacked by some guy with a knife which I assumed was a nod to Eastwood's 'unforgiven'

 

[Lyot]

Can you Name one mainstream game by a major publisher that has the same art style and sexual undertones that dragons crown has?

Art Style doesn't equate sexual undertone. It could happen that a certain Art Style has some sexual undertones, the same way it features some greek architecture. You've been given in this thread the example of similar things happening with previous Vanillaware games and nobody giving a fuss about it; or other games having worst cases of sexism (unless you consider sexual undertones = sexism) without being called for it by the press. Read the thread.

But people do not ignore it with major games. There was a lot of noise, for example, about "bros before hos" trophy and violence against women in God of War Ascension. It is true that gaming press did not make note of any of these issues in the past, but this is kind of a new thing that the press has started to pay attention to.

And we're talking about the gaming press, not people, who, of course, are usually more receptive about some issues. This thread is about Jim, a press member, talking about the outrage of a review from the press, and the reactions of the readers of the press, wondering why doesn't the press have the same reactions against other cases of sexualism or sexism in games.

Let me doubt about the last line of your post; the press has started to pay attention, but they won't criticize big AAA titles from the US or Europe. They didn't do anything in recent times, and they won't do it in the future, because they won't bite the hand that feeds.

Vanillaware and Suda51 isn't going to pay the press for reviews, so they're a easy target. That's what we (or at least, I) are complaining about.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I think we are interpreting her writing differently. Jiggling, by the way, is an animation. The rest of her blog or article or whatever talks a lot about action. I do not see her ever implying just a picture of large breasts is the worst thing ever. All her examples are of actions and representations and not of still art images.

She also mentions that she was once excited about it and then saw pictures of it and it made her stomach churn. Unless she just saw pictures of it within the past two weeks then she didn't see those poses because that's when the artwork was released. The previous pics in general weren't showing knockdown animations and such.

Then you take her comments about Lightning Returns, in which she isn't at all talking about actions in the game. She's purely talking about the fact that they're animating her breasts. That's why I brought up Odin Sphere and its artwork. I just don't see how someone could be turned off of DC while praising OS at the same time. Their artwork is very much in line with one another. But like I mentioned earlier, the main difference is that they're brought those characters front and center as playable characters instead of just being characters you'd occasionally see. But they were absolutely still there.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I think the biggest problem with discussions like this and others revolving around sexuality, sexism, and perception is that far too often, proponents of one side resort to vilifying the other, without listening to or attempting to understand their respective positions.

I personally feel that sexualized, or even extremely sexualized depictions are not inherently bad or wrong, but I also understand that many feel the industry is sexist. I can understand and appreciate the position of those who dislike it. However when I, as part of a group of people who don't take issue with these depictions, or even enjoy them, get insulted or called "adolescent," "perverted," or "basement-dwelling virgins," I'm less likely to listen intently to what follows.

I also think it's important to consider the context of games individually, and realize the differences in cultures informing individual games. Dragon's Crown is a Japanese game, created by a man who enjoys fantasy and sexualized women. Most non-Western cultures do not take issue with sexual depictions to the extent that Western cultures do. The fantasy genre already has sexualized characters as tropes; he has just applied his style and exaggerated them. The game itself is not meant to be a new cornerstone of gender relations in the industry-it's a fantasy beat'em up. While there is ample room for the industry to better consider its treatment of women, both in and out of games, games like these are not the place to start.

Anyway, Schreier and Kamitami were able to come to an understanding, after an admittedly juvenile spitball fight, when they decided to actually listen to and respect each other. It would be nice if gamers could do the same.

 

[Mononoke]

Well, I for one love the art animation in this game. I think it's gorgeous, and I really like the over exaggerated character models (I actually kind of find them grotesque). But it just works so well with the overall art direction of the game. I might even say, this is one of the best looking games I've ever played.

That said, I think there is a legitimate discussion to be had about the over-sexualization of the female characters. I'm not the best one to have that debate, but I see the points being made. Personally, I don't get any sexual gratification when playing this game. I've been playing the Elf character though (which is more covered up and doesn't have her body as exaggerated). But I played the Sorceress for a couple hours last night, and didn't even notice the sexualization of the character when playing, or at least it had no impact on me when playing. That doesn't mean it doesn't impact others differently though. I'm not being dismissive of how the art design impacts others.

 

[frequency]

Raped in the middle of the street? I don't recall anything like this ever happening. There are some scenes where prostitutes get attacked by some guy with a knife which I assumed was a nod to Eastwood's 'unforgiven'

I don't know. I haven't played RDR.

She also mentions that she was once excited about it and then saw pictures of it and it made her stomach churn. Unless she just saw pictures of it within the past two weeks then she didn't see those poses because that's when the artwork was released. The previous pics in general weren't showing knockdown animations and such.

Then you take her comments about Lightning Returns, in which she isn't at all talking about actions in the game. She's purely talking about the fact that they're animating her breasts. That's why I brought up Odin Sphere and its artwork. I just don't see how someone could be turned off of DC while praising OS at the same time. Their artwork is very much in line with one another. But like I mentioned earlier, the main difference is that they're brought those characters front and center as playable characters instead of just being characters you'd occasionally see. But they were absolutely still there.

Hmm perhaps. I may be reading more into it her writing than I should be. I don't even think the blog/article was really well written or really said much of anything. I just didn't think Odin Sphere and Dragon's Crown are really on the same level in terms of portrayal of women.

But I'll concede because I may totally just be misunderstanding authorial intent.

For the record, I don't really care about the Amazon or the Sorceress proportions. Though the animations do raise some questions because the male counterparts don't have anything even remotely similar to that in their animations. But with that said, I have the game and I'm not going to be returning it. I actually considered the Sorceress despite her proportions because I love playing as magic classes.

Also I'm totally getting Lightning Returns.

But some of this stuff is still pretty creepy and I lament it but it is pretty widespread and I'm not going to quit games over it.

 

[Coxy]

Can you Name one mainstream game by a major publisher that has the same art style and sexual undertones that dragons crown has?

I can name a game with a similar style in the very same genre by a huge publisher that has jiggling tiger testicles and would love to see an article about how it's sexualizing tigers

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

How is it bullying? That's an incredibly interesting word to use in regards to this discussion. Especially considering the outrage for this started with a review that gave the game an average score, and resulted in a heated discussion on this forum. There's been numerous examples given on why people feel the way they do. That's not bullying.

This is not the first time the game suffered another unfair attack on it's art and sexualism:

http://kotaku.com/game-developers-really-need-to-stop-letting-teenage-boy-472724616

The review is just the culmination of nitpicking this game for it's sexualization, without care in quality in art and other aspects.

 

[njean777]

Do you have ANY proof to back up this notion? Because, frankly, we've seen what happens when big publishers have "controversial" things in their games. If we saw EA do this it would be covered by a lot more news outlets. Look at all the shit EA got for letting same sex relationships happen in a game. People were threatening to boycott their games, they were talking about it on the nightly news, etc.

If a giant publisher did this they'd catch major shit for it. Any time a major publisher doesn't something of note or something that could be found offensive, it's covered by the news. Look at the No Russian level, the hot coffee issue with San Andreas, etc. I don't even understand how you could say "Oh, they're going after the niche japanese developer! This wouldn't happen to anybody else" with a straight face. There are mountains of evidence to the countrary. If the game and it's depection of women doesn't offend you, that's fine, but it obviously does offend quite a few other folks and that's fine too. That's why we're having the discussion. But seriously, don't act like this is only happening because the developer is a small japanese company. That's utter horse shit.

Can we go back to when games were just fun and not all political. Look at how angry you are, its saddens me. I want this in general, all of you people that bring politics into gaming are just angry people it seems. Then again our current political climate in America doesn't help either.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I've been thinking about all this in the context of Dragon's Crown specifically for a while. At this point, the one thing that bugs me is the feeling the game is being fixated on in the same way the Bechdel Test can be misapplied to films. When it's an issue of trends in media, it becomes dicey to single out a given work.

It doesn't mean nobody has a right to be offended at Dragon's Crown. People can be offended by virtually anything, it's their prerogative. I do think Dragon's Crown remains a pretty poor choice to have been held up as a significant example of everything that's wrong with female portrayals in game media tho.

It just seems there are more pervasive problems with how females are represented in games than what is effectively an interactive Boris Vallejo painting.

 

[Raist]

Can you Name one mainstream game by a major publisher that has the same art style and sexual undertones that dragons crown has?

Different artstyles completely, but...:

MGS4 (and MGS in general)
DoA (I mean they even made a beach volleyball game spin-off)

I don't recall major outrages for these.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Different artstyles completely, but...:

MGS4 (and MGS in general)
DoA (I mean they even made a beach volleyball game spin-off)

I don't recall major outrages for these.

Can I have your versions of MGS?

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Can I have your versions of MGS?

In MGS 4, you can take photos of dying females in sexy poses, in tight clothes. They do sexy poses for you, pure fanservice with no other meaning. Noami continous sideboob and bouncing, you can make Rose boobs bounce on a call, the playboy magazines, etc...

And I'm not even gonna bother with PW.

 

[Raist]

Can I have your versions of MGS?

NSFWish

http://abload.de/img/urlhttp3a2f2fcache.kogyapq.jpg

 

[Pyronite]

Just think of the game if the role reversed here. If I bought Dragon's Crown and the art style included a bunch of naked dudes with bulging shlongs running around and ejaculating on people with their giant wieners, I think I would be weirded out by the game a little too.

This needs to be quoted more—both because it's a good point, and because of the giant weiners.

 

[Atomski]

Yo Jim, don't make the same mistake as some posters on here and assume that GAF is a single entity. There are a lot of different people who do not participate in this nonsense.

I dont think anyone actually means its a single entity.. I think they mean that major portion of that user base.. Which is pretty obvious.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

This needs to be quoted more—both because it's a good point, and because of the giant weiners.

If you think that's a good point...well, nothing I could say would matter.

 

[meltingparappa]

This needs to be quoted more—both because it's a good point, and because of the giant weiners.

That's a separate issue of social homophobia.

And "ejaculating on people" is not remotely an equivalent.

The 12 year old mentality isn't serving any side of this discussion any.

 

[Sword Familiar]

Fans of the game shouldn't be upset at any controversy. It'll sell more copies because of it.

Pretty hard to prove if that's true or not. How can you be sure the "scared away from buying it" crowd is less than the "drawn in by the controversy" crowd`?

 

[MogCakes]

Pretty sure I've already said it, but Kamitani/Vanillaware weren't aiming to hit blockbuster status with DC. They knew the risks going in. Obviously Kamitani wasn't deterred by it. If the art style isn't to your liking and turns you off the game, so be it. That is not good or bad. Insinuations that Vanillaware will be relegated to a hack studio because they'll lose revenue for their sexy depictions of girls are completely erroneous, given that the attention has actually boosted the game's popularity and the name Vanillaware has gotten much more exposure.

The big problem is that this whole discussion was started off in one of the worst ways possible, by the Kotaku piece in April, which was framed as an attack on both the art style and Kamitani himself, calling him an immature 13 year old boy. It has remained framed that way ever since and the arguments over the Polygon review are a continuation of that at heart.

 

[Pau]

I'm almost speechless.
A good character must now be just a cheap power fantasy kids can see as a shallow role model? Wow.

If that's the standard we're trying to achieve here, color me completely disappointed.

i'd have to imagine that Heather Mason is also a shitty female character, because it shows some weaknesses, Maria from Silent Hill 2 too, 'cause she's partly a stripper.

Talk about missing the forest for the tree.
--
It's not way off at all, it tells me how the definition of "good character" (male OR female) i have is dramatically different than what you (and those who agree with you) have.
And it also tells me that i want a very different gaming landscape (hell, art & entertainment in general) than you do.

I would certainly be not satisfied by a female character that is only "empowering" by virtue of kicking the bad guys' asses and not showing her tits, i think creating a worthwhile character is much more than having a nice puppet the kids can look up to.

The thing about all of those characters, except for Bonnie, is that they are defined by their female sexuality. And yeah, as a woman who loves video games, it's fucking annoying when the defining characteristic of most female characters in video games is what's happening with their vagina.

 

[SousedLouse]

Pretty sure I've already said it, but Kamitani/Vanillaware weren't aiming to hit blockbuster status with DC. They knew the risks going in. Obviously Kamitani wasn't deterred by it. If the art style isn't to your liking and turns you off the game, so be it. That is not good or bad. Insinuations that Vanillaware will be relegated to a hack studio because they'll lose revenue for their sexy depictions of girls are completely erroneous, given that the attention has actually boosted the game's popularity and the name Vanillaware has gotten much more exposure.

The big problem is that this whole discussion was started off in one of the worst ways possible, by the Kotaku piece in April, which was framed as an attack on both the art style and Kamitani himself, calling him an immature 13 year old boy. It has remained framed that way ever since and the arguments over the Polygon review are a continuation of that at heart.

Exactly. Even though Kamitani and Schreier have come to an understanding, the initial dust-up that article created has hung overhead of every recent criticism of the game, as well as other niche games that are kind of similar to it, tinting the way that some people look at it and how they look at people who examine it. These discussions don't exist in a vacuum; they spill into one another, and people are just as likely to take their comments, arguments and emotional baggage from one discussion into another, even though it would be a lot easier to deal with each discussion on its own terms. That's probably why the whole consistency angle is repeated so often - to some, it's just the same shit on a different day.

 

[Karkador]

Different artstyles completely, but...:

MGS4 (and MGS in general)
DoA (I mean they even made a beach volleyball game spin-off)

I don't recall major outrages for these.

There has been plenty of criticism of these games for their sexualized points. I think the only time there's ever an "outrage" about anything is when there's the very vocal and flabbergasted pushback and defense against the criticism. I guess no one even wanted to bother trying to defend DOA, while MGS4 had way bigger problems.

 

[MogCakes]

There has been plenty of criticism of these games for their sexualized points. I think the only time there's ever an "outrage" about anything is when there's pushback and defense against the criticism. I guess no one even wanted to bother trying to defend DOA, while MGS4 had way bigger problems.

Kotaku's piece in April caused the outrage over DC. No quotes on outrage.

 

[Karkador]

Kotaku's piece in April caused the outrage over DC. No quotes on outrage.

People concurring that something looks pretty dumb and juvenile is an outrage?

 

[MogCakes]

People concurring that something looks pretty dumb and juvenile is an outrage?

It's not simple concurrence.

http://kotaku.com/game-developers-really-need-to-stop-letting-teenage-boy-472724616

 

[Karkador]

I'm not sure what you mean to say

 

[MogCakes]

I'm not sure what you mean to say

I'm saying the reaction to the article was one of outrage over the game's art.

 

[mentallyinept]

This is an issue as old as the hills, and is the basis of the argument that game reviews should stop using the 1-10 scale altogether.

Personally, I think it suggests that the roles should be reversed, like Pandora.

The number should actually come from the reader instead of the reviewer.

Read the review, and at the bottom, registered/confirmed users would be asked, "Based on the review, how would you rank the game?"

Then the site could suggest other games that you may be interested in based on their sites' reviewers' style and tendencies.

Of course, it would still depend on the reviewers to be at least as objective as the Polygon review. Stuff like Zero Punctuation couldn't really function with this type of system.

 

[Lombax]

simplest solution to this "problem" is to give fuck all about reviews in general. Its been working great for me for the past 5 years.

 

[RoninChaos]

Art Style doesn't equate sexual undertone. It could happen that a certain Art Style has some sexual undertones, the same way it features some greek architecture. You've been given in this thread the example of similar things happening with previous Vanillaware games and nobody giving a fuss about it; or other games having worst cases of sexism (unless you consider sexual undertones = sexism) without being called for it by the press. Read the thread.

I've been responding for the last three pages. Instead of being a snarky asshole, take your own advice.

I'll rephrase to make it simpler. Name one mainstream game that has the same issues with it's presentation as dragon's crown. Name one that has a character like the amazon falling face down and ass up.

Name one that has had questionable animation sets like this:

and show me where the mainstream media gave it a pass. Please provide appropriately similar examples that the media just let go. Please show me when this has happened numerous times and provide proof that this really isn't about the sexuality presented in the game, it's just that people want to beat up on some small japanese developer.

Please.

 

[StayDead]

Please tell me how people wouldn't end up in those positions when falling down naturally.

 

[RoninChaos]

Can we go back to when games were just fun and not all political. Look at how angry you are, its saddens me. I want this in general, all of you people that bring politics into gaming are just angry people it seems. Then again our current political climate in America doesn't help either.

So... you can't give me an example?

 

[mentallyinept]

I've been responding for the last three pages. Instead of being a snarky asshole, take your own advice.

I'll rephrase to make it simpler. Name one mainstream game that has the same issues with it's presentation as dragon's crown. Name one that has a character like the amazon falling face down and ass up.

Name one that has had questionable animation sets like this:

and show me where the mainstream media gave it a pass. Please provide appropriately similar examples that the media just let go. Please show me when this has happened numerous times and provide proof that this really isn't about the sexuality presented in the game, it's just that people want to beat up on some small japanese developer.

Please.

Maybe Skullgirls?

Admittedly, I didn't read a lot of reviews about the game, but I don't recall widespread criticism of the art style like Dragon's Crown.

 

[frequency]

Please tell me how people wouldn't end up in those positions when falling down naturally.

Please tell me how only females fall and end up in those positions. There are no animations of the male characters in equivalent positions.

And I am female. I've fallen on occasion. I don't fall like that. I don't know what position you would need to be standing in to fall like that. My back does not automatically arc nor do my legs automatically spread when I am no longer balanced on my feet.

Women are no more likely to end up in such positions than men are.

 

[Kinyou]

Debating sexism in video game is pretty useless until we have more female pressence in the industry. Just wait until we have some female game designer or director then probably we could have somethin better to debate for.

What actually many people tend to forget is that the creative director and head writer of the Uncharted Series is a woman.

 

[michaelius]

Just think of the game if the role reversed here. If I bought Dragon's Crown and the art style included a bunch of naked dudes with bulging shlongs running around and ejaculating on people with their giant wieners, I think I would be weirded out by the game a little too.

And it would be wholy your fault if you bought something like this willingly and knowing what it is.