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[RoninChaos]

This is not the first time the game suffered another unfair attack on it's art and sexualism:

http://kotaku.com/game-developers-really-need-to-stop-letting-teenage-boy-472724616

The review is just the culmination of nitpicking this game for it's sexualization, without care in quality in art and other aspects.

So Kotaku, the same site that originally brought this to light did a follow up and that's an attack?

Look, Muscle, you DO realize why some people would feel this way, right? Let's strip away the review score and all that other bullshit. Look at this:

Can you NOT see why people would be coming to the conclusions that they are? Yes or No? Can you tell me, under any circumstances how someone would even fall over in the ways depicted in that picture? Compare that to the Dwarf. He's not falling over, balls flapping out or anything like that.

There isn't some giant media campaign saying this game needs to be burned or taken off the shelves. I'm not sure where other people in this thread have been able to conflate the kotaku articles as a blatant attack is a little bit crazy. Conflating a review, which is someone's OPINION, as an unfair attack is crazy. How is it unfair? I realize you may not think the game is sexist, but can you see why some people would? That's the key here.

I don't wish Vanillaware ill will or anything like that. Pointing out something that could be considered sexist isn't an attack. Pointing these kinds of things out with the picture above isn't attacking the company or saying the game sucks. Where are you getting this? People seem to be reacting like the game got banned or something.

 

[NullPointer]

Please tell me how people wouldn't end up in those positions when falling down naturally.

Hahahahaha.

C'mon now. There's exaggerated sexual features and poses in this game - can we at least start with a recognition of that fact? It's not accidental, or just a side effect of some adherence to realism or physics.

Everything in this game is exaggerated to mythical proportions, but the innuendo is also purposeful. That doesn't automatically make it a bad thing either.

I don't see a problem with it personally, and found it to be far worse in Bayonetta, enough that it bugged me. It doesn't bug me in this game though, but I wouldn't hold anything against people avoiding it or criticizing it for its style and approach.

 

[Lombax]

Hey guys,
This art style is fucked up as well

I do not understand at all why the art style of this game has gotten more attention than the awesome game itself!
This is how the lead artist interprets anatomy, yes its over the top but so is this.

and don't get me started on this!

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Pretty hard to prove if that's true or not. How can you be sure the "scared away from buying it" crowd is less than the "drawn in by the controversy" crowd`?

I can't but I think the game is getting noticed more than it would have without all this talk and coverage. I'm basing it on the idea that the more people hear about it = more sales. It's like a form of advertising. Just compare the size of the threads about the controversy to the ones about the trailers or reviews. Muramasa and Odin Sphere got nowhere near as much coverage as this game has.

 

[Bethany]

I think the biggest problem with discussions like this and others revolving around sexuality, sexism, and perception is that far too often, proponents of one side resort to vilifying the other, without listening to or attempting to understand their respective positions.

I personally feel that sexualized, or even extremely sexualized depictions are not inherently bad or wrong, but I also understand that many feel the industry is sexist. I can understand and appreciate the position of those who dislike it. However when I, as part of a group of people who don't take issue with these depictions, or even enjoy them, get insulted or called "adolescent," "perverted," or "basement-dwelling virgins," I'm less likely to listen intently to what follows.

And that's totally fair -- I imagine your reaction upon hearing terms like those is very similar to my reaction upon being accused of things like prudery and hating men. Why do these discussions so frequently and quickly turn into an insult echo chamber?

For my part, I try not to get bogged down in it, but it does admittedly get tough to keep my patience when I read comment after comment after comment of someone not getting it and turning the discussion into a demonstration of why women shouldn't talk about sexism in games at all. I mean, if we're just going to sit here yelling at each other to shut up, I think we've already moved well past any chance of productive discussion.

I also think it's important to consider the context of games individually, and realize the differences in cultures informing individual games. Dragon's Crown is a Japanese game, created by a man who enjoys fantasy and sexualized women. Most non-Western cultures do not take issue with sexual depictions to the extent that Western cultures do. The fantasy genre already has sexualized characters as tropes; he has just applied his style and exaggerated them. The game itself is not meant to be a new cornerstone of gender relations in the industry-it's a fantasy beat'em up. While there is ample room for the industry to better consider its treatment of women, both in and out of games, games like these are not the place to start.

Welllll now wait just a finger-licking minute here. One minute you're expressing a really important observation about how off-putting and conversation-damaging it is to throw out insults at people -- but the next minute you're about a hair's breadth away from calling westerners "prudes." I know you didn't say it, but it's kind of lurking in there just beneath the surface. I mean, here's the thing with cultural relativism: it's a western value. Which means it's pretty much a self-defeating proposition. Respecting that other people come from a different place is totally a legitimate exercise, but subtly hinting that respect equates to letting one value trump another (here, you're suggesting that we allow multiculturalism to trump gender equality) is kind of dismissive.

Why should women's not wanting to be viewed through a sexist lens take a backseat to a Japanese game designer's not wanting to be viewed through a western lens?

 

[RoninChaos]

Hahahahaha.

C'mon now. There's exaggerated sexual features and poses in this game - can we at least start with a recognition of that fact? It's not accidental, or just a side effect of some adherence to realism or physics.

Everything in this game is exaggerated to mythical proportions, but the innuendo is also purposeful. That doesn't automatically make it a bad thing either.

I don't see a problem with it personally, and found it to be far worse in Bayonetta, enough that it bugged me. It doesn't bug me in this game though, but I wouldn't hold anything against people avoiding it or criticizing it for its style and approach.

That's the only thing that's bothering me; people are acting like the exaggerated sexualization isn't there. It IS there. It's blatant. Why pretend that it isn't? Why not say "yeah I could see that, but it doesn't bug me"? If people were then this discussion would have pretty much stopped like 6 pages ago.

 

[meltingparappa]

What actually many people tend to forget is that the creative director and head writer of the Uncharted Series is a woman.

And Bayonetta was designed by a woman!

 

[koryuken]

SEXIST and biased against big women!!!

 

[Bethany]

That's the only thing that's bothering me; people are acting like the exaggerated sexualization isn't there. It IS there. It's blatant. Why pretend that it isn't? Why not say "yeah I could see that, but it doesn't bug me"? If people were then this discussion would have pretty much stopped like 6 pages ago.

Because admitting that would mean they'd have to acknowledge that their real objection is to the fact that other people (mostly but not exclusively female people) have different points of view, which is an uncomfortable thing to have to acknowledge because it suggests the need to engage in self-reflection.

 

[NullPointer]

That's the only thing that's bothering me; people are acting like the exaggerated sexualization isn't there. It IS there. It's blatant. Why pretend that it isn't? Why not say "yeah I could see that, but it doesn't bug me"? If people were then this discussion would have pretty much stopped like 6 pages ago.

Yeah, that would drive me nuts too.

Its an obvious artistic decision and style, the innuendo, the poses, the titillation. People who think its a side effect or that only a prurient eye sees it are only fooling themselves.

Of course, whether it bugs any individual is on a case by case basis. I mean, I can't really explain why Bayonetta bothered me with its hypersexuality, while seeing the DC witch with stew drippings spattered on her boobs doesn't, and I'm not about to claim there is any real meaningful difference there. Its a vibe thing I guess.

In short: Your mileage may vary, and its not a strange thing to see people who love the art style and others who don't want to have anything to do with it.

 

[Krev]

And Bayonetta was designed by a woman!

Catering to the demands of a male director though.

 

[RoninChaos]

Because admitting that would mean they'd have to acknowledge that their real objection is to the fact that other people (mostly but not exclusively female people) have different points of view, which is an uncomfortable thing to have to acknowledge because it suggests the need to engage in self-reflection.

We're you the one that posted up a blog post that said PAX is a hotspot for sexual assault?

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I've been responding for the last three pages. Instead of being a snarky asshole, take your own advice.

I'll rephrase to make it simpler. Name one mainstream game that has the same issues with it's presentation as dragon's crown. Name one that has a character like the amazon falling face down and ass up.

Name one that has had questionable animation sets like this:
Please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUq65rm4RK4

Unless making sexy animations for the player to take photos is better than some animations being sexualized.

Also that article was done way beyond those animations where made public, it was directly and exclusively directed to the art and designs.

 

[Lombax]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUq65rm4RK4

Unless making sexy posses for the player to take photos is better than some animations being sexualized.

Also that article was done way beyond those animations where made public, it was directly and exclusively directed to the art and designs.

No you see that's cool because its not Dragons Crown...

 

[RoninChaos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUq65rm4RK4

Unless making sexy posses for the player to take photos is better than some animations being sexualized.

Also that article was done way beyond those animations where made public, it was directly and exclusively directed to the art and designs.

Is the character you linked (can't see it on my phone) a main character? Are the majority of their animations (that constitute their available actions) even remotely comparable to the amazon? Are the sexy poses things like being face down ass up? Is this a tiny part of the game or a huge part like the character of the amazon?

 

[njean777]

So... you can't give me an example?

I am not gonna argue with you. I said my peace, get over it and move on.

 

[SousedLouse]

Maybe Skullgirls?

Admittedly, I didn't read a lot of reviews about the game, but I don't recall widespread criticism of the art style like Dragon's Crown.

People ragged on it pretty hard, yeah. I know it was pretty much seen as a collective failure of western society that a game like Skullgirls could even be published over at The Escapist. And people still criticize and mock the game now; I remember when one of the threads for the fundraiser was still active on this site, someone posted something along the lines of how it was too bad that a game with such disgusting sexualized art hadn't crashed and burned yet.

Not that it's bad to do so - critiques are fine, and if you've got an issue with any game like that, it's better to say it outright than tiptoe around it. The stray comment I mentioned earlier was a little shitty, but the thread ignored it and it just sort of languished on the first page; why that doesn't happen more often, I'll never know.

Welllll now wait just a finger-licking minute here. One minute you're expressing a really important observation about how off-putting and conversation-damaging it is to throw out insults at people -- but the next minute you're about a hair's breadth away from calling westerners "prudes."

Why use insults when implications get the job done without getting you banned?

I know you didn't say it, but it's kind of lurking in there just beneath the surface. I mean, here's the thing with cultural relativism: it's a western value. Which means it's pretty much a self-defeating proposition. Respecting that other people come from a different place is totally a legitimate exercise, but subtly hinting that respect equates to letting one value trump another (here, you're suggesting that we allow multiculturalism to trump gender equality) is kind of dismissive.

Why should women's not wanting to be viewed through a sexist lens take a backseat to a Japanese game designer's not wanting to be viewed through a western lens?

Maybe it's an appeal to balance, or something. I've seen that idea comes up from time to time, and sometimes it makes sense when it comes to pandering or trying to suss out what demographics developers from other countries are keeping in mind when they make games, but I'm at a loss as to how it fits in here as well.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Is the character you linked (can't see it on my phone) a main character? Are the majority of their animations (that constitute their available actions) even remotely comparable to the amazon? Are the sexy poses things like being face down ass up?

You're narrowing the conditions to a point you're asking a perfect mirrowed case which is almost impossible. The question is: Is MGS4 questionable too regarding it's use of sexuality (included animations) and women portrayal or not?

I can answer the fact, that the way they walk and move are pretty much done to emphatize their sexyness. The design also, is part of Kojima ADN in making games, he likes to include a good amount of sexualization in his game (in one game you can grope the tits of every female you encounter), but no major media did called him juvinile and gross because of his tastes when designing games and portraying characters in a certain way.

 

[frequency]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/8079-Hideo-Kojima-and-Women

2010. Metal Gear Solid. Major gaming personality.

People were always talking about this. The difference is you weren't paying attention.

 

[RoninChaos]

I am not gonna argue with you. I said my peace, get over it and move on.

So that's. "no"?

 

[Karkador]

You're narrowing the conditions to a point you're asking a perfect mirrowed case which is almost impossible. The question is: Is MGS4 questionable too regarding it's use of sexuality and women portrayal or not?

Yes. Kojima is clearly not above using dumb stuff, too, as we've seen in several of his recent games. I think it would be disingenuous to say it's as "in your face" as Dragon's Crown, as much of it is a little more relegated to Easter Egg stuff, but it's still there. And as frequency pointed out, people have talked about it.

MGS4 just has a slew of other issues that distract from the sexualized characters, like the story being awful. On the other hand, Dragon's Crown looks pretty damn solid otherwise.

 

[Noray]

All of this will go away as soon as people get it through their thick skulls that a review is an opinion. You know, a subjective thing.

That is to say, never.

 

[njean777]

So that's. "no"?

Yep

 

[RoninChaos]

You're narrowing the conditions to a point you're asking a perfect mirrowed case which is almost impossible. The question is: Is MGS4 questionable too regarding it's use of sexuality and women portrayal or not?

I'll let you know when I look at the video when I'm home but Kojima has always been a bit off when it comes to women. Most likely yes, to your question. It is also most likely tame compared to things like the amazon falling face down ass up, but I'll let you know when I get home.

Also, with that said, Kojima and his depiction of women has been brought up in the past by different media outlets. I truly don't think you could find a major publisher who had some "questionable" content in their game to the degree of Dragon's Crown that wouldn't be called on it. To the point I can't think of a game in the past that was as blatant as DC is with the sexualization and objectification of the majority of the females in the game.

Can you admit that their is sexualization in the art of this game? Please see my previous post that was directed to you.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Welllll now wait just a finger-licking minute here. One minute you're expressing a really important observation about how off-putting and conversation-damaging it is to throw out insults at people -- but the next minute you're about a hair's breadth away from calling westerners "prudes." I know you didn't say it, but it's kind of lurking in there just beneath the surface. I mean, here's the thing with cultural relativism: it's a western value. Which means it's pretty much a self-defeating proposition. Respecting that other people come from a different place is totally a legitimate exercise, but subtly hinting that respect equates to letting one value trump another (here, you're suggesting that we allow multiculturalism to trump gender equality) is kind of dismissive.

Why should women's not wanting to be viewed through a sexist lens take a backseat to a Japanese game designer's not wanting to be viewed through a western lens?

That's a pretty good observation. It wasn't my intent to put one ahead of the other. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that since there is no "global culture," you can't really expect someone from Japan to hold the values of Americans, even if their games are now sold internationally. That's not to say they can't learn to respect those values, especially if they're operating internationally. I'm not familiar with the idea of cultural relativism, but I would think (and hope) respecting and realizing that other cultures are different is just a value, not necessarily western. I think all creators should consider gender equality better, but the discussion that has been going on with regard to this particular game has not been constructive.

I also don't think women not wanting to be viewed through a sexist lens should take a backseat to anything. But if I enjoy playing this game, does that mean I view women through a sexist lens? I didn't buy Dragon's Crown because of the Amazon or Sorceress; I just wanted to play a good beat 'em up, and I like Vanillaware art and their previous games. I don't want to be demonized for my entertainment choices, or have it assumed that I'm a sexist pig. When two of my friends, who are both hardcore gamers and women, said that they didn't want to play DC because of the female art, I understood and respected their choice. I didn't insult them or call them prudes, and they didn't insult me or call me a sexist pervert.

 

[RoninChaos]

Yep

Hey now, don't get angry.

 

[MogCakes]

The more posts I read I see that all but one conversation is devolving into a 'us vs them' mindset.

 

[Bethany]

We're you the one that posted up a blog post that said PAX is a hotspot for sexual assault?

???

I don't believe so, although if I posted a link to something that had comments about PAX somewhere on the page, it certainly wouldn't have been my reason for posting it; to the contrary, my understanding is that PAX was an early adopter as far as putting some serious affirmative effort into making gaming conventions more welcoming to women. I know Mike gets himself embroiled in controversy from time to time, but I have no beef with Penny Arcade, and even if I did I'm not sure how it would be germane to this discussion.

 

[ReiGun]

That MGS4 photoshoot thing is...icky. Why is that even in the game? (Asking as a guy whose never played MGS in his life)

All of this will go away as soon as people get it through their thick skulls that a review is an opinion. You know, a subjective thing.

That is to say, never.

Hey, who gives a fuck about people's opinions? Metacritic scores are on the line here!

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/8079-Hideo-Kojima-and-Women

2010. Metal Gear Solid. Major gaming personality.

People were always talking about this. The difference is you weren't paying attention.

Is a very tame article (not juvenile accusations) and still his games didn't suffered to getting less score for it's sexualization. And its actually after and mostly about PW not even MGS4.

 

[njean777]

Hey now, don't get angry.

Not angry at all, I am enjoying Dragons Crown, great game and great art.

 

[meltingparappa]

Catering to the demands of a male director though.

That's quite the assumption that robs acknowledgement of her ability to make creative decisions.

 

[RoninChaos]

???

I don't believe so, although if I posted a link to something that had comments about PAX somewhere on the page, it certainly wouldn't have been my reason for posting it; to the contrary, my understanding is that PAX was an early adopter as far as putting some serious affirmative effort into making gaming conventions more welcoming to women. I know Mike gets himself embroiled in controversy from time to time, but I have no beef with Penny Arcade, and even if I did I'm not sure how it would be germane to this discussion.[/QUOTE
Sorry, I'd go back and look but navigating this thread is a bit difficult on my phone. A few pages back someone posted something from a woman who said that pax was something of a breeding ground for sexual assault. I wanted to get some elaboration on that.

 

[Taiser]

was showing tits and ass

before it got mainstream

 

[Karkador]

That MGS4 photoshoot thing is...icky. Why is that even in the game? (Asking as a guy whose never played MGS in his life)

The appearance of the bosses in MGS4 is based on some models they hand-picked to essentially appear in the game in digital form. So you fight them as "Beasts" in some kind of robotic suit, and then when you defeat them, their robot parts fall off and its' just them as "Beauties" in a skin-tight suit, writhing around in pain and trying to latch onto you, generally being terribly implemented characters.

So, as an easter egg, and I guess because they are models, the game will go into a photoshoot mode and the girl will pose for you if you happen to take out the digital camera item during their writhing.

 

[frequency]

Is a very tame article (not juvenile accusations) and still his games didn't suffered to getting less score for it's sexualization. And its actually after and mostly about PW not even MGS4.

?

So were you asking for someone that was in rage mode screaming "YOU ARE ALL SEXIST"?

There were issues with how women are portrayed and someone spoke about it. Contrary to the narrative some are trying to sell where the media is totally out to get Dragon's Crown and is mysteriously hush when other games have similar things in them.

And this review in question has been tame. It never called Vanillaware or any players sexist. That is something people here attributed to it because the reviewer was like, "I totally don't like this because ______, ______, and _______."

Saying a game is an "unapologetic adolescent fantasy" is not saying anything about you the player. Say you like Adventure Time, a kids show. It is described as a kids show. Saying it is a children's show is not saying all Adventure Time fans are children.

Yahtzee goes way further in that article when calling out Kojima than the review does.

 

[mentallyinept]

People ragged on it pretty hard, yeah. I know it was pretty much seen as a collective failure of western society that a game like Skullgirls could even be published over at The Escapist. And people still criticize and mock the game now; I remember when one of the threads for the fundraiser was still active on this site, someone posted something along the lines of how it was too bad that a game with such disgusting sexualized art hadn't crashed and burned yet.

Not that it's bad to do so - critiques are fine, and if you've got an issue with any game like that, it's better to say it outright than tiptoe around it. The stray comment I mentioned earlier was a little shitty, but the thread ignored it and it just sort of languished on the first page; why that doesn't happen more often, I'll never know.

Thanks for the info.

I guess I missed the outrage, or at least, it didn't seem nearly as loud as the roar Dragon's Crown has been subjected to.

 

[faceless007]

Is a very tame article (not juvenile accusations)

Just to be clear, you're criticizing the writer for not being an insulting and pompous flamethrower and using snarky name calling? 'Cause, uh, I'd say that's a good thing.

You keep harping on that ill-conceived (as even the writer admitted) Kotaku blog post like you expect every piece of the discourse to follow that example henceforth. It's not going to. Why should it?

and still his games didn't suffered to getting less score for it's sexualization. And its actually after and mostly about PW not even MGS4.

Scores are down to reviewers. Not every review needs to follow the Polygon reviewer's mindset.

Really, there's no grand conspiracy here to single out anything. It's just different writers at different outlets reacting to different aspects in different games. "Games reviewing" is not a hivemind. One reviewer cannot be held responsible for what another reviewer decided not to talk about.

 

[Kai Dracon]

That's quite the assumption that robs acknowledgement of her ability to make creative decisions.

This analysis of Bayonetta always made me think that the creative control of a female designer was the most potent force in the character's construction.

 

[Sword Familiar]

I can't but I think the game is getting noticed more than it would have without all this talk and coverage. I'm basing it on the idea that the more people hear about it = more sales. It's like a form of advertising. Just compare the size of the threads about the controversy to the ones about the trailers or reviews. Muramasa and Odin Sphere got nowhere near as much coverage as this game has.

Although I'm not saying you're wrong, I think it's a bit unfair to compare the game to Muramasa/Odin Sphere (unless you're comparing the art, which is similar) since they are different genres and Dragon's Crown has multiplayer. DC was probably going to sell better than both of them on that basis alone, I think, even if the art was less "aggressive". The question is whether or not the aggressive standpoint of the art made people turn away from a game they would otherwise have bought it or if it is, indeed as you say, actually boosting sales. Just getting noticed more is one thing, but if it's mostly bad publicity I'm not so sure if people will buy into it. I'm just saying it's pretty hard to prove as we don't know what the sales would have been without the added publicity.

Just FYI though, I'm in the camp that will probably buy this game despite not really liking the art as I can see myself having fun with it regardless.

 

[NullPointer]

Saying a game is an "unapologetic adolescent fantasy" is not saying anything about you the player. Say you like Adventure Time, a kids show. It is described as a kids show. Saying it is a children's show is not saying all Adventure Time fans are children.

Can't agree with this.

Describing a game as an "unapologetic adolescent fantasy" is implying that its audience is made up of people who enjoy unapologetically adolescent fantasies. Some would definitely take that as an insult, and rightfully so.

 

[frequency]

Can't agree with this.

Describing a game as an "unapologetic adolescent fantasy" is implying that its audience is made up of people who enjoy unapologetically adolescent fantasies. Some would definitely take that as an insult, and rightfully so.

But this means if you are talking about a game (or anything for that matter), you are talking about the fans. You can not in any way describe a game then without also calling the players this?

If a game is "dumb fun" are you saying only dumb people play it? I don't understand this mindset at all where you become the game you are a fan of and so all critique against it is critique against you personally.

 

[MogCakes]

Saying a game is an "unapologetic adolescent fantasy" is not saying anything about you the player. Say you like Adventure Time, a kids show. It is described as a kids show. Saying it is a children's show is not saying all Adventure Time fans are children.

I disagree somewhat. AT is classified as a children's show because it is aimed at children. DC is not aimed at adolescent teenage boys. It demographic would be in their 20's at the least considering its throwbacks to brawlers of ye olde 90's and earlier. Going by the system you're using "young adult male's fantasy" would fit better.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Just FYI though, I'm in the camp that will probably buy this game despite not really liking the art as I can see myself having fun with it regardless.

If by art you mean the controversial art and not the Vanillaware style in general, I recommend it. There are only about 3 cut ins that I've seen so far that might be considered offensive, and the Amazon and Sorceress don't show up unless you choose to have them.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Can't agree with this.

Describing a game as an "unapologetic adolescent fantasy" is implying that its audience is made up of people who enjoy unapologetically adolescent fantasies. Some would definitely take that as an insult, and rightfully so.

And they'd be idiots for being insulted by that. Or very insecure, at least. I'm a grown woman and I'll play the game (when Amazon decides to ship it already, grr) and I'm sure I'll enjoy it. It's okay to enjoy "unapologetic adolescent fantasies" just as it's okay to enjoy children's shows or porn or all manners of things. Some people really need to get over themselves...

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I'll let you know when I look at the video when I'm home but Kojima has always been a bit off when it comes to women. Most likely yes, to your question. It is also most likely tame compared to things like the amazon falling face down ass up, but I'll let you know when I get home.

Can you admit that their is sexualization in the art of this game? Please see my previous post that was directed to you.

I disagree how some animations being sexualized is worst than a female actively doing sexy animations for the player.

And I think I already admited that, yes, sexualization is part of the game, but it's not the whole art filled of influences like classic art and modern art. But in other games is the same and sometimes they are much bigger part of the game itself. The attention and criticism the game (being called juvinile and basically degrading it's artist, a very good one, and the people who plays it) got to the point of being discounted points in a review is unfair, that's what I'm saying, not because some people think may deserve it, because in gaming and way more maintream games are similar cases that deserves the same attention, but gaming journalism (not random blogs) ignore almost in block, because they don't want to bite the hand the feeds them.

 

[Sword Familiar]

If by art you mean the controversial art and not the Vanillaware style in general, I recommend it. There are only about 3 cut ins that I've seen so far that might be considered offensive, and the Amazon and Sorceress don't show up unless you choose to have them.

To clear things up: I mean the controversial portions of the art. Won't stop me from playing with the sorc/amz though. I'm not super impressed by vanillaware art in general though. They are good stills, by they sometimes animate awkwardly. At least imo.

I'm not offended by it, just find it unnecessary.

 

[NullPointer]

It's okay to enjoy "unapologetic adolescent fantasies" just as it's okay to enjoy children's shows or porn or all manners of things. Some people really need to get over themselves...

I never said it wasn't OK. Enjoy what you want, and I'll do the same.

I'm just saying that the reviewer is casting aspersions, as I'm pretty sure it wasn't meant in a positive way.

 

[MogCakes]

was showing tits and ass

before it got mainstream

Dat ass. Also provides some evidence for Ronin up there.

But this means if you are talking about a game (or anything for that matter), you are talking about the fans. You can not in any way describe a game then without also calling the players this?

If a game is "dumb fun" are you saying only dumb people play it? I don't understand this mindset at all where you become the game you are a fan of and so all critique against it is critique against you personally.

Yes actually, going by that system you assign connotations to the target audience of said game. Note that I am not advocating one should feel offended by such connotations.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

And they'd be idiots for being insulted by that. Or very insecure, at least. I'm a grown woman and I'll play the game (when Amazon decides to ship it already, grr) and I'm sure I'll enjoy it. It's okay to enjoy "unapologetic adolescent fantasies" just as it's okay to enjoy children's shows or porn or all manners of things. Some people really need to get over themselves...

This is not DOA Beach Volleyball, it's a game aimed at adults, is like saying the Simpsons is a kids show because it's animated. Not to say the that whole phrase had negative connotattions (or it wouldn't rested points...)