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[Pyrrhus]

He doesn't deserve rehabilitation. You can go too far and cross the line to the point where there is no coming back.

Today's judgment is an example.

Co-signed.

 

[Sean]

I'm not exactly sure he disagrees with the penalty, after all he wanted to die.

I don't like this. It is probably what he wanted anyway.

Not so sure about that. He could've killed himself in the bombings. He could've claimed responsibility for the bombings. He could've went out in a blaze of glory.

Instead he returned to normal life, tweeted crap like "stay safe Boston" and then went on a game of hide and seek after the FBI identified him. His actions seem more like a scared kid rather than a fearful martyr. He didn't want to get caught and didn't want to die.

 

[JHoNNy1OoO]

Disagree with the ruling. I'm 100% against the Death Penalty. We shouldn't be killing anyone, put him in a cell for the rest of his natural life. I don't want the government killing anybody(innocent or guilty) in my name. This is not justice, this is just revenge.

 

[dabig2]

Why are we murdering a religious extremist? It's exactly what he wants. He can have his martyrdom, he can go to his heaven, and he doesn't have to suffer decades of solitary confinement in ADX Florence.

He's probably ecstatic. So what's the point of killing him again? Religious extremists are already set to die. You're not deterring shit. And if it's for revenge, wouldn't it be better to not give him what he wants? Motherfucker was smiling when he was led out.

 

[Raxus]

Shame, I wanted him to rot in his cell for the remainder of his days.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

He doesn't deserve rehabilitation. You can go too far and cross the line to the point where there is no coming back.

Today's judgment is an example.

This was never a case of rehabilitation.

It's not like he had a chance to get out of prison, he was going to be in that cell for the rest of his life where he can ponder things as the world forgets he's even there.

Why are we murdering a religious extremist? It's exactly what he wants. He can have his martyrdom, he can go to his heaven, and he doesn't have to suffer decades of solitary confinement in ADX Florence.

He's probably ecstatic. So what's the point of killing him again? Religious extremists are already set to die. You're not deterring shit. And if it's for revenge, wouldn't it be better to not give him what he wants? Motherfucker was smiling when he was led out.

Ehhh, considering their actions where they abandoned the bombs I doubt they were that crazy on dying. They were trying to escape and get away, so I don't buy that he actually wants to die.

 

[Kysen]

Good riddance, hopefully no long appeals process. Also by offing him, he won't be able to radicalise others in jail.

 

[Buzzati]

The death penalty is not a deterrent. The last thing you're thinking about when you're in the act of murdering someone is what the potential legal punishment might be in the relevant jurisdiction if/when you're caught and found guilty.

States without a death penalty had a lower murder rate than those with the death penalty.

Also, a 2009 survey of criminologists revealed that over 88% believed the death penalty was NOT a deterrent to murder.

This isn't conclusive enough to prove or disprove causation in deterrence. You cannot just average out murder rates in places like Hawaii, Alaska, Vermont, Rhode Island, and...North Dakota and then clap the dust off your hands and announce that the Death Penalty is not a deterrent. Look at the populations in those states. The reason those murder rates are lower is because the populations are significantly less criminal for a complex assortment of reasons.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

We have police and standing armies (force employed by the state) and yes, even executions. The state having the authority to kill convicted criminals has always been the case, back to the very origins of the state.

I can understand and even empathize with modern movements to reduce or ban capital punishment outright but lets not act surprised by it.

Police and armies have the authority to stop threats.

What threat does a person in a places like a supermax prison present? Who is he going to harm? There is no justification besides feeling like this is "justice" which its hard for me to feel can ever be justified.

And its not surprising 60 years ago but most of the world has stopped the practice. Just like with women's equality, the labor movement, LGBT rights norms change fast and we shouldn't use history to justify the fact its not yet left our earth

 

[m_shortpants]

Not so sure about that. He could've killed himself in the bombings. He could've claimed responsibility for the bombings. He could've went out in a blaze of glory.

Instead he returned to normal life, tweeted crap like "stay safe Boston" and then went on a game of hide and seek after the FBI identified him. His actions seem more like a scared kid rather than a fearful martyr. He didn't want to get caught and didn't want to die.

That was so weird.

 

[God Dayumm]

He can be put to use in prison

This is typically my stance but then people still complain about exploitation.

 

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

Which begs the question: What's the alternative to either of those, then? (Not trying to start an argument, just discussion)

There can be imprisonment without the 'let him rot' part. This man should not be free again, but there could be a level of personal rehabilitation, and maybe remorse. He should be studied to help understand why he did this. Even if that is not possible, killing him in retribution can only bring about more hatred. Nothing good can come from his death.

 

[Salmonax]

Sigh. Well, we barely pretend to be a civilized country anymore anyway. And I'm dumbfounded by assertions in 2015 that the death penalty serves as a deterrent. We've known for ages that it doesn't.

 

[btrboyev]

He doesn't deserve rehabilitation. You can go too far and cross the line to the point where there is no coming back.

Today's judgment is an example.

Really? There have been people who have been sentenced for crimes just as bad if not worse and have been released. What he did was horrible and absolutely unexcusable. I'm not defending him at all, but there have been dudes who have brutalized, murdered and raped women who have been rehabilitized and released from prison.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

This "missing stat" of deterred murderers is not even missing. It is implicitly included in comparisons of the murder rate between death penalty states and non-death penalty states. If the number of deterred murderers was large enough to make a difference, there would be less murders in death penalty states and more in non-death penalty states. But the reality is the exact opposite.

 

[Lemaitre]

I find that people who are pro capital punishment usually have their choice conjured from an emotional reaction, clearly ignoring the obvious facts of the matter (that the death penalty is not a deterrent). Kind of reminds me of religious belief........

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Technically this was the federal government that is deciding on the penalty. Mass has no death penalty, but he was tried by the Feds, not the State of Massachusetts.

I think the DP is gross. But we need SCOTUS intervention to abolish it completely.

I meant the "state" in a philosophical context. As in the government.

 

[Ferrio]

Even the small small small chance that he might regret his actions while staying in prison is better than the death penalty. To me having someone labeled a terrorist coming out and speaking out against those actions is a way more powerful message than killing them.

 

[eBay Huckster]

I meant the "state" in a philosophical context. As in the government.

John Fugelsang had the same issue earlier.

 

[Mad Season]

Disagree with the ruling. I'm 100% against the Death Penalty. We shouldn't be killing anyone, put him in a cell for the rest of his natural life. I don't want the government killing anybody(innocent or guilty) in my name. This is not justice, this is just revenge.

have to disagree. This guy could be HAPPY spending his life in jail while families still suffer

 

[Brawndo Addict]

This isn't conclusive enough to prove or disprove causation in deterrence. You cannot just average out murder rates in places like Hawaii, Alaska, Vermont, Rhode Island, and...North Dakota and then clap the dust off your hands and announce that the Death Penalty is not a deterrent. Look at the populations in those states. The reason those murder rates are lower is because the populations are significantly less criminal for a complex assortment of reasons.

You know murder "rates" are not the same thing as murder "totals" right?

 

[Siegcram]

This isn't conclusive enough to prove or disprove causation in deterrence. You cannot just average out murder rates in places like Hawaii, Alaska, Vermont, Rhode Island, and...North Dakota and then clap the dust off your hands and announce that the Death Penalty is not a deterrent. Look at the populations in those states. The reason those murder rates are lower is because the populations are significantly less criminal for a complex assortment of reasons.

I mean, you could also look at the rest of the world. Or all of history.

Claiming a deterring effect is nothing short of moronic at this point.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

The fuck??? How so?

Because prisons are some of the most violent places in the world and someone with a life sentence/on death row has nothing left to lose? That's not to say that he necessarily will be violent, but you can't say he's "no further threat to anyone."

 

[Lemaitre]

I meant the "state" in a philosophical context. As in the government.

Correct.

So much for the greatest country on earth. We are so middling mediocre.

 

[NullPointer]

What threat does a person in a places like a supermax prison present? Who is he going to harm? There is no justification besides feeling like this is "justice" which its hard for me to feel can ever be justified.

Why are you looking for a current or future act to justify his sentence? Its already been done. He made his life forfeit when he blew people up to begin with. That's what this judgment is a response to, not some current or future risk. His actions were final enough to the victims and nothing we do at this point is a solution, only a penalty.

 

[Buzzati]

You know murder "rates" are not the same thing as murder "totals" right?

You know "populations" is not "population totals", right?

 

[Deleted member 125677]

Not a fan of the barbaric death sentence, even in extreme cases like this. Civilized society really needs to rise above un-civilized actions undertaken by its members if there's to be any hope of progress

 

[Pyrrhus]

Good riddance, hopefully no long appeals process. Also by offing him, he won't be able to radicalise others in jail.

An excellent point. Everybody should google Prison Imam.

 

[btrboyev]

Why are we murdering a religious extremist? It's exactly what he wants. He can have his martyrdom, he can go to his heaven, and he doesn't have to suffer decades of solitary confinement in ADX Florence.

He's probably ecstatic. So what's the point of killing him again? Religious extremists are already set to die. You're not deterring shit. And if it's for revenge, wouldn't it be better to not give him what he wants? Motherfucker was smiling when he was led out.

He doesn't want to die though, if he did he would have offed himself when he had the chance.

 

[Future PhaZe]

Not so sure about that. He could've killed himself in the bombings. He could've claimed responsibility for the bombings. He could've went out in a blaze of glory.

Instead he returned to normal life, tweeted crap like "stay safe Boston" and then went on a game of hide and seek after the FBI identified him. His actions seem more like a scared kid rather than a fearful martyr. He didn't want to get caught and didn't want to die.

yea this

if the kid wanted to die, he had a ton of chances to do so

 

[eBay Huckster]

This isn't conclusive enough to prove or disprove causation in deterrence. You cannot just average out murder rates in places like Hawaii, Alaska, Vermont, Rhode Island, and...North Dakota and then clap the dust off your hands and announce that the Death Penalty is not a deterrent. Look at the populations in those states. The reason those murder rates are lower is because the populations are significantly less criminal for a complex assortment of reasons.

Then it's a good thing that "non-death penalty states" figure includes such sparsely populated and crime-free wastelands as Illinois (#5), Michigan (#10), Maryland (#19), New Jersey (#11), and the District of Columbia.

 

[Lemaitre]

Because prisons are some of the most violent places in the world and someone with a life sentence/on death row has nothing left to lose? That's not to say that he necessarily will be violent, but you can't say he's "no further threat to anyone."

That's clearly reaching considering the fact that he would have been isolated for 23 hours a day. And the one hour he wasn't he'd be bound in leg/arm cuffs.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

You know "populations" is not "population totals", right?

Uh, "populations" are "population totals". You said look at the populations of the various states. That is a fixed number.

The murder rate is not a number it is a rate of per 100,000.

 

[Buzzati]

I mean, you could also look at the rest of the world. Or all of history.

Claiming a deterring effect is nothing short of moronic at this point.

Criminality in the US is a demographic issue: the death penalty has nothing to do with it.

 

[Pepiope]

You know "populations" is not "population totals", right?

It's per 100,000 people. You can certainly use that.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

The Onion ‏@TheOnion 26s27 seconds ago

Tsarnaev Death Penalty A Warning To Any Other Religious Fanatics Hoping To Be Martyred http://www.theonion.com/r/50451tsd

Oof.

 

[Lemaitre]

Criminality in the US is a demographic issue: the death penalty has nothing to do with it.

Rationale is that you?

Hmm. This is always a fun discussion when death penalty's come up. It's a lot more intense when our government mandates it though, people get even more rabid.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

My only concern is that he's getting what he wants in the end. Assuming he wants to die for his beliefs.

 

[Buzzati]

Uh, "populations" are "population totals". You said look at the populations of the various states. That is a fixed number.

The murder rate is not a number it is a rate of per 100,000.

Looking at populations means looking at populations. For example, you can look at a population of one people in Idaho and look at a population of one people in Illinois and then compare and contrast. It does not strictly mean, "Look at the amount of people here", rather it means "Look at this group of people vs this group of people"

 

[Tenebrous]

How the hell does the death penalty cost more than life in prison in the US? If you're intent on killing the guy, then just lob his head off with a great big axe.

 

[Lemaitre]

Oof.

The Onion can really hit some homers still. Beautiful.

 

[NintendoGal]

Because prisons are some of the most violent places in the world and someone with a life sentence/on death row has nothing left to lose? That's not to say that he necessarily will be violent, but you can't say he's "no further threat to anyone."

I have a friend who works in a prison and yep. Scum of the earth that will try anything to gain an advantage over the guards. I'm always worried for them in the back of my mind because of the very real threat.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Looking at populations means looking at populations. For example, you can look at a population of one people in Idaho and look at a population of one people in Illinois and then compare and contrast.

I assumed that your point was that you can't compare states with small populations to states with large populations because the small states will have less murders. That would be correct if we were talking about murder totals but since we're talking about rates it's not relevant.

If that's not the context of your comment then I struggle to see what your issue with the data even is unless you think that the majority of criminologists don't know how to use statistics correctly.

 

[eBay Huckster]

How the hell does the death penalty cost more than life in prison in the US? If you're intent on killing the guy, then just lob his head off with a great big axe.

Due process includes the appeals process and that tends to cost a fuckton of money.

 

[Daniel Jackson]

If he really wants to die as a martyr and abandons all of his appeals, he could be dead in just a few years.

 

[Escalation]

Great news. I'm glad his defense didn't fool the jury. I don't care one bit about his bullshit religious beliefs or deterrence. The sooner the better.

 

[Ferrio]

How the hell does the death penalty cost more than life in prison in the US? If you're intent on killing the guy, then just lob his head off with a great big axe.

Lots of appeals, which is good cause the system isn't perfect and we've killed innocent people in the past. Which is another reason why the death penalty sucks.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

My only concern is that he's getting what he wants in the end. Assuming he wants to die for his beliefs.

I honestly don't think he thought of the consequences.

He fled and allegedly even ran over his brother trying to get away.

He was captured alive.

He could have died for the cause a lot earlier than he will.

 

[Buzzati]

Rationale is that you?

Hmm. This is always a fun discussion when death penalty's come up. It's a lot more intense when our government mandates it though, people get even more rabid.

The demographic of Idaho or North Dakota isn't even comparable to the demographic of New Mexico. What don't you agree with? Wait, do you think demography strictly points at race? That's not what demographic means.

 

[eBay Huckster]

The demographic of Idaho or North Dakota isn't even comparable to the demographic of New Mexico. What don't you agree with? Wait, do you think demography strictly points at race? That's not what demographic means.

You don't seem to have addressed the fact that "non-death penalty states" as a separator includes several of the most populous in the country. I'm not sure why you're limiting your posts to smaller states!

(I'm not even going to get into isolating the homicide rates for the states in question because DC alone is not going to be fun to look at.)