LyleLanley
Banned
He will.
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Jury has reached verdict in Dzhokhar Tsarnaev trial - sentenced to death
- Thread starter ActStriker
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He will.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
His plan was to have his brother die in a shootout and him try to escape and be captured alive so the US would execute him making them look bad and him look good???
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Good. 3 meals a day would have been too lenient a punishment.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/178790/americans-support-death-penalty-stable.aspx
A minority of Americans want to get rid of the death penalty. For whatever reason, Americans feel it is a moral, political, or economic good. If the research is inconclusive about deterrence, then we should do the democratic thing and hold off making a policy decision that betrays American voters. People that live in their own state and are familiar with the criminality in their own state, vote in their own interests as members of that state.
Fallible courts shouldn't make irreversible decisions. It's that simple.
Doubly so if they've shown predisposition to impose said judgement on minorities and the occasional disabled person.
While being tortured. Like making him be naked in a room full of ants for a few hours a day.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
I'm against the death penalty but I was never convinced Dzhokhar was genuinely into the ideological part of this whole thing. It seemed like his brother roped him into a lot of this shit and he's dead. Plus, Dzhokhar has been withering away in jail. I don't think he's going to be focusing on the martyr bullshit when they lead him out for execution. I think he's going to be a frightened kid.
LOL What do you think life is like for a TERRORIST in a US prison anyway?
I'd rather be dead.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
NullPointer
Member
Lethal injection - the very method used in assisted suicides - and only after due process legitimizes setting off explosives in crowds of innocents?The major problem with the death penalty imo is not about authority, but that the barbaric action of intentionally murdering a convicted criminal legitimizes the barbaric action he's found guilty of on a very fundamental level
One thing is for sure, capital punishment is a very heartfelt issue and deserves to be kept in the spotlight of public attention.
Yeah, it's not like he left an ideological message for us or anything.
This is one of the few cases where I support the death penalty.
We have unequivocal proof that he committed the crime and he's a mass murderer.
I don't believe it's a deterrent to others and it doesn't make me feel good. I just believe someone like this doesn't deserve to live in our already crowded prison system. We have enough people who don't deserve to be there toiling away. Just give this guy the death he asked for instead of having him join them.
We have unequivocal proof that he committed the crime and he's a mass murderer.
I don't believe it's a deterrent to others and it doesn't make me feel good. I just believe someone like this doesn't deserve to live in our already crowded prison system. We have enough people who don't deserve to be there toiling away. Just give this guy the death he asked for instead of having him join them.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
A majority of Americans used to believe segregation was appropriate too, that doesn't mean it's in keeping with the principles of democracy or human rights to keep it going. That's the tyranny of the majority at work. This is just one of many issues where a majority of constituents want something that their elected representatives should not give into.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
Method is completely irrelevant. My argument is that it removes intentional murder from the sphere of things we should absolutely not do, and instead makes it into a question of "who has the authority to decide if somone deserves to be killed". This is a very dangerous path to go down, because that is a question that different people will have different opinions on
flaxknuckles
Member
but mah tax dollas
Really though, if we aren't going to rehabilitate the dude then what is the point of spending money to keep him in prison forever? So people can get their vengeance at terror they experienced behind a computer screen?
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Sometimes I wonder if those opposed to the death penalty ever think of the victim or their families.
Like I said previously, most of those people in this situation were opposed to the death penalty.
I think you have issues, dude.
What does it accomplish for the family? What's the net gain here?
As for the victim(s), well ...
I have that same nagging question but towards people who support the death penalty. Do they even know or care about the victims of the family? Or is this more about justifying the state sanctioned murder of people, using the victims family as a prop?
Edit; Beaten by a better response
NullPointer
Member
Its not though. As a society we have sought out the most humane methods possible to end a person's life. That intent does matter, especially when it comes to accusations of bloodlust and barbarism for sport being tossed around by some.
This is a path we've been on from the very beginning. Our entire history as tribes and societies of people has been down that very road.
Not to say we can't or shouldn't change things, but this is no slippery slope. Its as old as the conception of justice itself.
I'm not opposed to eliminating the death penalty, but I'm not convinced that it is as untenable a position to have as racism is, and so I would defer to voters to decide what they think is best for them. I can potentially see how someone can be for the death penalty and still be in keeping with the habitus of American liberty and law...but I can't see how someone could reconcile a policy of racial inequality.
I don't really get where this idea comes from. Is he actually being treated like a martyr? Honest question, I've never heard of any extremists or terrorist groups singing this kid's praises and wishing him a safe trip to the afterlife
Brawndo Addict
Banned
But the death penalty is still implicated in racial inequality because it is disproportionately targeted against minorities. And it is not in keeping with liberty and law to allow the death penalty to exist given the number of innocents who have sentenced to death.
This only just happened, so that doesn't surprise me. But yeah, people in the nat'l security community have spoken out about it:
http://wgbhnews.org/post/killing-tsarnaev-part-one-experts-warn-cost-martyrdom
The Incarnation
Member
oh well, that's the risk you take when you do something psychotic.
And sentencing him to death is giving him the easy way out.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
Disagree. To me, injecting lethal poison into someone is just as barbaric and perverse as cutting his throat or whatever. But as I said, this is not really about method for me, which ultimately, in matters of life and death, is a trivial matter, no?
It's a path most civilized socities has transcended a good while ago. USA is the odd one out, really.
Netherscourge
Banned
When I see this comment, it makes me wonder...
If we execute him, he's a martyr.
If he spends the rest of his life in jail, when he finally does die, he's still a martyr.
If he lives a long, miserable, lonely, horrible existence in jail, in his mind, he'll be rewarded even more when he dies because of all the "suffering" he had to endure at the hands of the infidels who he tried to kill in the first place. He'll think he's a "Job" figure of sorts. Suffering just to prove his faith to his god.
So at the end of the day, is there nothing we can do to actually punish this guy and make him feel guilty for his crimes?
If not, then why are we so worried about what HE thinks or wants? Shouldn't we be more concerned with justice and what OUR society thinks about his crimes? And if killing this guy somehow coincides with his own thinking or wants, so be it. But we should not be taking into any consideration what HE wants or believes. In fact, it should be ignored completely because he will only be a martyr to himself and whoever else believes his nonsense.
To the victims and the survivors of his crimes, he will be dead. And that's all that matters.
NullPointer
Member
I think method is very important, but we can just hold an honest disagreement on that point and tackle the larger issue.
One thing I'm fine with is that the burden of justification falls on the pro-death penalty side, and its something that should be done anew with each case rather than relying purely upon historical norms and institutional inertia. Its not at all a trivial thing to take a life. To that extent the anti-death penalty movement can be a very positive force to check the state's power. I'd like to think we can reach a place where these executions are incredibly rare while also not going full on Norway.
GoldenEye 007
Member
It's really not that shocking. The justice system worked here properly I think.
Now I fully understand the overall system has major issues and I wouldn't be upset if the death penalty ended.
And inmates are perfectly capable of causing more harm. Either to others physically or by spreading their message outside.
That is your ethics. But there are arguments that exist for the death penalty that see it as being congruent with liberty and law. You probably disagree with them, but they can be made: Closure, utility, etc. Some have even argued that it is the ideal answer for murder precisely because it regards life as sacred - it is a specific punishment for a specific crime, whereas imprisonment is not. Do I agree with this? Not necessarily, but to many people that's a tenable argument for upholding the sanctity of life in America. Others point to the lengthy and expensive appeals process as a reason for the death penalty being the ultimate punishment - Ted Bundy famously appealing his death multiple times and had even strategized piece-meal negotiations by helping law enforcement catch other killers in order to extend his life. For as many innocent people you can count that were put to death by capital punishment, another could find the amount of people that were potentially spared by murderers who didn't want to pick up a sentencing in a death-penalty state -- Which maximizes the most liberty? I really don't have a position on the matter - so I can't really argue on behalf of pro-penalty voters.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
If we're proposing that we should use the death penalty, there should be good reasons to use it that also outweigh the consequences. But all I see are platitudes that ignore the reality of how it works. It is emblematic of the entire justice system's racist structure and has had a large number of innocent citizens sentenced to death. We know that these things have happened. We don't know and probably can't ever know who "potentially" was saved by it who wouldn't otherwise have been saved by life in prison. If we're weighing a known versus an unknown, then the known loss of liberty clearly outweighs a merely "possible" gain of liberty. International Law is also clearly trending towards a global ban as well.
joeygreco1985
Member
He's probably going to be in his 30s by the time the execution goes down. People sit on death row for years
Lone Wolf
Member
It didn't take long for Timothy McVeigh to be executed.
NullPointer
Member
Six years from the act, four years from conviction, so yeah, pretty quick.
Yeah, because killing people ALWAYS makes the victims feel better.
Lone Wolf
Member
Wouldn't that be torture?
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Also when you poll Americans about whether they support the death penalty or an alternative like life in prison without parole, then support for the death penalty drops significantly.
Other studies found a majority favored alternatives:
Other studies found a majority favored alternatives:
sure, throw in 1 hour waterboarding everyday too
death penalty is so unimaginative... totally primitive
KINGofCRA5H
Member
I don't know if this has been posted or not, if it has then I apologize
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