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[Buzzati]

Also when you poll Americans about whether they support the death penalty or an alternative like life in prison without parole, then support for the death penalty drops significantly.



Other studies found a majority favored alternatives:

They ought to get rid of the death penalty in their state then. I hope they succeed. I think is a much easier road than the one to the Supreme Court. Also, I don't understand the quote:

Sixty-one percent of registered voters said they would favor a punishment for murder other than the death penalty, according to a survey made public on Tuesday by the Death Penalty Information Center

- Is this all of the US? This contradicts what I've read. If true, then there seems like there's overwhelming support to get rid of capital punishment federally - which sounds fine to me. EDIT: It's a DPIC poll, which might (or might not) have a biased readership.

 

[HariKari]

will that be after 20 years on death row? we should have figured out a way to make his life as miserable as possible on earth. fucking scum.

Life in the supermax in Colorado is pretty miserable.

 

[Condom]

sure, throw in 1 hour waterboarding everyday too

death penalty is so unimaginative... totally primitive

Torture is disgusting.

People who think this dude can't be rehabilitated are minsinformed, nearly everybody without extreme anti-social disorder can be rehabilitated.
Anyway, that's a whole different discussion on the way we punish criminals.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

Beyond forgiveness. Agreed.

Bleh. I would rather he spend years in a box though. Take out the trash or let it stink up a room, I don't care either way.

 

[Omikaru]

I don't know if this has been posted or not, if it has then I apologize

Heartbreaking.

I don't think the state/nation/whatever should have the right to kill those in its custody. I also feel the death penalty is more about revenge than justice, or a deterrent, or whatever. As for the costs... well, we'll see how much Tsarnaev's appeal costs come to and I bet it'll dwarf the cost of him spending his life behind bars.

Honestly, I find no justifiable reason for a government to kill another person who doesn't pose an immediate threat to innocents. As a civilised and developed country, the U.S. shouldn't stoop to the same levels as those who would murder innocents to push their fucked up ideology. It just strikes me as abhorrent, regardless of what he did.

Though maybe that's just my European perspective. The death penalty is pretty much eradicated on our continent.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Not a fan of the death penalty, but I certainly won't shed any tears for this guy.

 

[RiccochetJ]

I'd rather them send him over here to Colorado and our supermax prison.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

- Is this all of the US? This contradicts what I've read. If true, then there seems like there's overwhelming support to get rid of capital punishment federally - which sounds fine to me. EDIT: It's a DPIC poll, which might (or might not) have a biased readership.

No it seemed like an outlier to me too at first, but apparently it does track with some state polling that mimics the extended alternatives option.

A February 2013 poll of 600 North Carolina voters, about three-quarters of whom identified themselves as conservative or moderate, provided strong evidence:

68 percent favored replacing the death penalty with life in prison without parole if offenders were required to work and pay restitution to their victims’ families. As long as they are on death row, inmates cannot earn money to pay off their debts.
63 percent supported ending the death penalty if the money spent on capital punishment were redirected to crime fighting.
55 percent supported ending the death penalty if the money were spent on solving cold cases and victim services.

So it may be a situation where we're really at the mercy of how the question is asked and how many alternatives are offered. The big pollsters seem to stick to the "this or that" of death penalty vs life without parole, but it seems that things might swing the other way when you include more alternatives/details. That said, it may be providing too much in that they're responding more to where they want more money spent as opposed their opinion on the death penalty itself.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Sometimes I wonder if those opposed to the death penalty ever think of the victim or their families.

Uhhhg, I'm gonna try to bite my tongue here.

I think it's pretty low to try to speak for the families of those who have been forced to live with the events of horrific violence to attempt to justify ones point on matters like the death penalty.

Eye for an eye isn't how the justice system works, having the victims hate and personal trauma dictate punishment is a horrible idea and is why we have the jury system to begin with, as well as laws that dictate punishment for accusations. We don't kill people who commit 1st degree murder most of the time, even if the family wants that man dead.

Not to mention, as others have pointed out, not every victim even wants the death penalty, which is why trying to pull the card you just pulled is even more silly.

 

[kmax]

Sometimes I wonder if those opposed to the death penalty ever think of the victim or their families.

 

[freakzilla149]

Sometimes I wonder if those opposed to the death penalty ever think of the victim or their families.

It doesn't FUCKING matter what the victim or their family think.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

I'm not a fan of the death penalty in general because it takes too long and is a waste of money with appeals. In this case I hope they find a way to just expedite the process. Fuck this dude.

 

[BBboy20]

I think method is very important, but we can just hold an honest disagreement on that point and tackle the larger issue.

One thing I'm fine with is that the burden of justification falls on the pro-death penalty side, and its something that should be done anew with each case rather than relying purely upon historical norms and institutional inertia. Its not at all a trivial thing to take a life. To that extent the anti-death penalty movement can be a very positive force to check the state's power. I'd like to think we can reach a place where these executions are incredibly rare while also not going full on Norway.

I'd imagine Norway would be the ideal but the way we are made up, we would have to commit to different measures and strategies to get there.

 

[Pezking]

Heartbreaking.

I don't think the state/nation/whatever should have the right to kill those in its custody. I also feel the death penalty is more about revenge than justice, or a deterrent, or whatever. As for the costs... well, we'll see how much Tsarnaev's appeal costs come to and I bet it'll dwarf the cost of him spending his life behind bars.

Honestly, I find no justifiable reason for a government to kill another person who doesn't pose an immediate threat to innocents. As a civilised and developed country, the U.S. shouldn't stoop to the same levels as those who would murder innocents to push their fucked up ideology. It just strikes me as abhorrent, regardless of what he did.

Though maybe that's just my European perspective. The death penalty is pretty much eradicated on our continent.

Thank you. I completely agree with you.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

It doesn't FUCKING matter what the victim or their family think.

It does to the courts.

 

[Ferrio]

It does to the courts.

No, actually it doesn't. Unless the families of the victims were on the jury or something.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Honestly rather die then live in SuperMax.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

It does to the courts.

Not really.

Those families can testify of the incident, but if they even hint of something like "I hope he fries on the chair" the defense is going to object and that person is going to be dismissed.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

No, actually it doesn't. Unless the families of the victims were on the jury or something.

Ever heard of victim impact statements???

Maybe not relevant here but they happen in sentencing/death penalty cases.

 

[Corronchilejano]

Sometimes I wonder if those opposed to the death penalty ever think of the victim or their families.

Everyone knows the "Ritual of Victim Reviving" requires the death of the killer.

Spoiler

Does the death of the killer really bring solace to the victims' loved ones? Serious question. I don't know of any studies on the matter.

 

[VaultBoy101]

It didn't take long for Timothy McVeigh to be executed.

McVeigh waived appeals and asked to be executed ASAP.

 

[Netherscourge]

Everyone knows the "Ritual of Victim Reviving" requires the death of the killer.

Spoiler

Does the death of the killer really bring solace to the victims' loved ones? Serious question. I don't know of any studies on the matter.

Each person has their own idea of closure. That's why it's such a hard thing to debate.

Some victims want captial punishment, some don't. Some don't care either way.

There is no right or wrong in this instance. It's just majority rule making the laws. State by state.

 

[Tevious]

People who think this dude can't be rehabilitated are minsinformed, nearly everybody without extreme anti-social disorder can be rehabilitated.
Anyway, that's a whole different discussion on the way we punish criminals.

I don't get this stance. Rehabilitate someone who committed mass murder and release them back into society? Or do you mean to rehabilitate them and keep them in prison for life? What's the point? Why waste resources on someone like that? What kind of message does that send?

Someone who actively seeks to take away multiple lives I think doesn't deserve to keep their own. Even life in prison is far too generous, IMO. We got homeless people in this country, yet we're providing shelter and keeping all the bellies full of all the murderers in prison. From my perspective, I don't see any logical reason to keep someone like that alive. As long as there's no reasonable doubt that they're guilty, then just give them a quick death and be done with it. Maybe delay their death and quietly execute them if there's serious concerns about martyrdom.

 

[Ferrio]

I don't get this stance. Rehabilitate someone who committed mass murder and release them back into society? Or do you mean to rehabilitate them and keep them in prison for life? What's the point? Why waste resources on someone like that? What kind of message does that send?.

He could speak out to others who are like minded that they shouldn't do such a thing? I mean at this point he's going to go to his grave thinking what he did was right, and anyone who is in the same mindset will too. If there's even the slightest possibility of him regretting his decisions later in life and speaking out against them, that's a way better alternative.

 

[Ayt]

Ah Norway, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiZUvDMdnik, for killing that many kids. It seems a nice place, lot of people would kill, pun intended, to be in a place like that.

Nice utoob video. Now compare how successful their criminal justice system is to that of the US.

 

[Austriacus]

I don't get this stance. Rehabilitate someone who committed mass murder and release them back into society? Or do you mean to rehabilitate them and keep them in prison for life? What's the point? Why waste resources on someone like that? What kind of message does that send?

Someone who actively seeks to take away multiple lives I think doesn't deserve to keep their own. Even life in prison is far too generous, IMO. We got homeless people in this country, yet we're providing shelter and keeping all the bellies full of all the murderers in prison. From my perspective, I don't see any logical reason to keep someone like that alive. As long as there's no reasonable doubt that they're guilty, then just give them a quick death and be done with it. Maybe delay their death and quietly execute them if there's serious concerns about martyrdom.

What exactly do you not get? not everyone ascribes to utilitarianism like you are doing here.

You keep them alive because they are humans, thats the only reason there needs to be.

 

[Tevious]

He could speak out to others who are like minded that they shouldn't do such a thing? I mean at this point he's going to go to his grave thinking what he did was right, and anyone who is in the same mindset will too. If there's even the slightest possibility of him regretting his decisions later in life and speaking out against them, that's a way better alternative.

There's no guarantee of any of that. Being regretful shouldn't pardon you from the consequences of your actions. I just see that as being overly optimistic and too forgiving. Even if he did get rehabilitated and spoke out against terrorism, I don't see that swaying any extremists. They'll just believe he was coerced into saying that or he'll be so far removed from the problems of ~2055 (or whenever he'd get out) that his opinion won't be relevant to future would-be terrorists. It also sends a message that you get off incredibly easy for doing such heinous crimes.

Having both brothers caught and killed is as much of a deterrent as you can hope for. It sends a clear message that you're not going to get away with it and the consequence will be your life. Everyone has a natural fear of death. Even determined people who are trying to commit suicide give into that fear and fail to kill themselves all the time. I bet somewhere in his mind he already does regret it after being caught and knowing his life is over.

What exactly do you not get? not everyone ascribes to utilitarianism like you are doing here.

You keep them alive because they are humans, thats the only reason there needs to be.

It doesn't make any sense to try to rehabilitate someone who took multiple innocent lives. I mean seriously!? Just give them some time in prison, some therapy, then set them free when they're good and sorry enough for what they did and all is forgiven? Or if they're kept in prison, then why bother to rehabilitate them at all? I think its naive to believe that all human lives are precious, even murderers. And I think a quick death is more humane than a life in prison.

 

[vas_a_morir]

It doesn't FUCKING matter what the victim or their family think.

lol, you emphasized the WRONG word.

 

[LyleLanley]

Sentencing is today, right now victims are making their impact statements. There are some truly sad and powerful things being said.

Here are a few quotes from the sister of officer Sean Collier:

Collier's sister Jen talks about being victim of media just as much as anything, having to hear from people who "knew him."

Jen Collier: "The defendant has not only taken Sean away he has taken me away from me." #Tsarnaev

"I will drink whiskey in his honor and cry with grown men," Jen Collier, sister of Sean. #Tsarnaev

Jen Collier: "He showed no remorse while their victims and their families stood in front of him. He hid behind a dead man." #Tsarnaev

"He ran his brother over with a car no wonder he had no issue shooting mine in the head," Jen, sister of Sean Campbell.

"He spit in the face of the American Dream," Jen Rogers says.

Sean Collier's sister, Jen Rodgers ends her impact statement asking for #Tsarnaev to get life in prison instead of the death penalty.

These were taken from @SusanZalkind , @MiltonValencia & @GarrettQuinn

 

[Ivan 3414]

"He ran his brother over with a car no wonder he had no issue shooting mine in the head," Jen, sister of Sean Campbell.

Had no idea this dude killed his own brother

 

[LyleLanley]

Had no idea this dude killed his own brother

I believe his brother was already dead when he ran him over.

 

[Warm Machine]

We seem to want ISIS firebombed thousands of miles away but we struggle over this guy getting the death penalty? He willingly and knowingly and joyfully blew people up. In doing so stole away the victims human rights. This is a guy who doesn't deserve to be on the planet.

 

[FStop7]

Sentencing is today, right now victims are making their impact statements. There are some truly sad and powerful things being said.

Here are a few quotes from the sister of officer Sean Collier:

Collier's sister Jen talks about being victim of media just as much as anything, having to hear from people who "knew him."

Jen Collier: "The defendant has not only taken Sean away he has taken me away from me." #Tsarnaev

"I will drink whiskey in his honor and cry with grown men," Jen Collier, sister of Sean. #Tsarnaev

Jen Collier: "He showed no remorse while their victims and their families stood in front of him. He hid behind a dead man." #Tsarnaev

"He ran his brother over with a car no wonder he had no issue shooting mine in the head," Jen, sister of Sean Campbell.

"He spit in the face of the American Dream," Jen Rogers says.

Sean Collier's sister, Jen Rodgers ends her impact statement asking for #Tsarnaev to get life in prison instead of the death penalty.

These were taken from @SusanZalkind , @MiltonValencia & @GarrettQuinn

Jen Rodgers is a better person than 99% of the rest of the world, I'd say. She eloquently frames the horrific harm that he caused, yet she still asks for him to be given mercy.

I believe his brother was already dead when he ran him over.

Nope. He killed his own brother.

Watertown Sergeant Jeffrey Pugliese described tackling Tamerlan Tsarnaev after the suspect appeared to have run out of ammunition and struggling to handcuff him when a fellow officer screamed that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was speeding towards them in a black Mercedes the brothers had carjacked hours earlier.

"I reached down and I grabbed Tamerlan by the back of the belt. I was trying to drag him out of the street to prevent him from being struck," Pugliese said. "I looked to the right and the headlight was almost there."

He rolled out of the way but Tamerlan was run over, his body pulled into the wheelwell and dragged for about 20 feet (6 meters). After Tamerlan, a trained martial artist, was thrown free, he continued to wrestle with Pugliese and another officer.

Tamerlan died later that day.

 

[collige]

We seem to want ISIS firebombed thousands of miles away but we struggle over this guy getting the death penalty? He willingly and knowingly and joyfully blew people up. In doing so stole away the victims human rights. This is a guy who doesn't deserve to be on the planet.

Who is "we"? I'm pretty sure the people arguing against the death penalty don't want more pointless violence in the Middle East either.

 

[LyleLanley]

We seem to want ISIS firebombed thousands of miles away but we struggle over this guy getting the death penalty? He willingly and knowingly and joyfully blew people up. In doing so stole away the victims human rights. This is a guy who doesn't deserve to be on the planet.

Regardless of what I think of the death penalty in this scenario or in general I think that comparing how the government deals with active terrorists to this case doesn't really make much sense.

Nope. He killed his own brother.

Damn, I didn't know that.

 

[Stet]

We seem to want ISIS firebombed thousands of miles away but we struggle over this guy getting the death penalty? He willingly and knowingly and joyfully blew people up. In doing so stole away the victims human rights. This is a guy who doesn't deserve to be on the planet.

I'm sure if we could feasibly put everyone in ISIS in a prison for the rest of their lives, it would be preferable.

 

[Pezking]

We seem to want ISIS firebombed thousands of miles away but we struggle over this guy getting the death penalty?

Would you want to firebomb imprisoned ISIS members in US custody?

 

[LyleLanley]

Tsarnaev is going to address the court.

 

[params7]

Sometimes I wonder if those opposed to the death penalty ever think of the victim or their families.

I do. I still think that I would be against basic bloodlust. I'm not saying I wouldn't fantasize about the guy suffering, but I would try my best to rise above the need for retribution. We are not above him by putting him to death and that is a fact. There are countries in this world that already believe in rehabilitation treatment for all. USA isnt one of thrm, but I think that's the way forward for humanity.

 

[KDR_11k]

As long as there's no reasonable doubt that they're guilty, then just give them a quick death and be done with it.

If there's reasonable doubt they don't get ruled guilty in the first place. All those innocents who were found guilty (whether they got put on death row or not) at some point? The court and jury thought at the time that there was no reasonable doubt.

 

[Piggus]

Would you want to firebomb imprisoned ISIS members in US custody?

I'd push the button myself. ISIS is a virus that needs to be exterminated.

I do. I still think that I would be against basic bloodlust. I'm not saying I wouldn't fantasize about the guy suffering, but I would try my best to rise above the need for retribution. We are not above him by putting him to death and that is a fact. There are countries in this world that already believe in rehabilitation treatment for all. USA isnt one of thrm, but I think that's the way forward for humanity.

I don't particularly like the death penalty, but painlessly (most of the time) ending someone's life via lethal injection is hardly what I would call "bloodlust" compared to packing a pressure cooker full of explosives and ball bearings and painfully murdering innocent people. It's also a much better fate than the alternative punishment (life in the ADX). And that's great that other countries have success with rehabilitating prisoners, but people here would be absolutely outraged if someone like Tsarnaev were given the chance to lead a relatively comfortable life on taxpayer dollars after what he did. If people in Norway are okay with paying for a comfy dorm room for a guy who murdered over 70 young people, then fine. I respect that. But I don't think we are willing to provide that kind of life to a murderer when there are millions (if not billions) of innocent people around the world who don't live nearly that comfortably. We simply have different values on the matter, and it's a bit ironic that Europeans get outraged when we kill a domestic terrorist painlessly while at the same time our countries are allied in an effort to kill as many members of ISIS as possible, without trial.

 

[trh]

Jen Rodgers is a better person than 99% of the rest of the world, I'd say. She eloquently frames the horrific harm that he caused, yet she still asks for him to be given mercy

To some, like myself, life behind bars in a maximum security prison is a worse punishment than death. Really gives you time to reflect on what you've done.

 

[Princess Carl]

Cool, pleas to emotion that should have zero place in the administration of criminal justice.

 

[Lan Dong Mik]

Tsarnaev is going to address the court.

Any idea if there will be any live feed of it?

 

[LyleLanley]

Gives praise to Allah.
I want to ask forgiveness for Allah.
If you have thanked the people, you have not thanked God.
#Tsarnaev


Thanks his attorneys.
"Made my life the last two years easy. I cherish their companionship."
Thanks those who testified for him.
#Tsarnaev

Id like to thank the jury.
I would like to apologize to the victims and the survivors.
#Tsarnaev

Immediately after the bombing that I am guilty of, I learned of some of the victims, their names, their faces,t heir age.
#Tsarnaev

More of those victims were given names in this trial.
All those who got up there on the witness stand…related to me…something that
#Tsarnaev

Strenght, with patience with dignity.
Told us how unbearable it was.
Not enough time in the day…
I have respect for people
#Tsarnaev

I am sorry for the lives I have taken…the damage I have done….(showing emotion). I am Muslim. My religion is Islam.
#Tsarnaev

I pray to Allah, to bestow his mercy on those affected in the bombing and their families…I pray for your healing…
#Tsarnaev

I ask allah to have mercy on me my brother and my family.
I ask Allah to have mercy on the Umah.
Thank you.
#Tsarnaev

- @GlobeCullen

 

[DrForester]

Jen Rodgers is a better person than 99% of the rest of the world, I'd say. She eloquently frames the horrific harm that he caused, yet she still asks for him to be given mercy.

Given where he'd be going if he got life, I don't know if it could be called mercy...

 

[Arkeband]

What a weird address... this is why faith leaves such a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Enron]

We seem to want ISIS firebombed thousands of miles away but we struggle over this guy getting the death penalty? He willingly and knowingly and joyfully blew people up. In doing so stole away the victims human rights. This is a guy who doesn't deserve to be on the planet.

Yep. Fuck this guy.

 

[oreomunsta]

I don't know if this has been posted or not, if it has then I apologize

A teacher of mine had an idea that I thought could have some merit in not only keeping the public safe from someone like that, but also potentially driving it home what it is that they had done and how it's affected their community: Record all of the testimonials like the one you quoted, collect images of the families and those who were hurt, and then expose these materials to the culprit every day that they are in prison. In the case of this kid, he should have this man's testimonial, played along with video of him giving it and photos of his son and daughter, in the kid's room once a day. He shouldn't be forced to keep his eyes open, or anthing like that, but should be reminded every day of the damage that he has done, at least until he shows that he is wanting to change and improve.

 

[Man]

Wasn't Dzhokhar abused in prison? I remember a news story showing a bloody toilet stall.

Death sentence might not be the worst outcome for him all things considered.