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Just finished Paper Mario: TTYD

P

Prospero

Member
Well, I liked it enough to keep playing, but now I'm going to criticize it.

Paper Mario: TTYD is one of the most frustrating experiences I've had with a game recently, because there was so much that was good about it, but those good things were mixed in with so much crap in just about every single instance. Great level design marred by endless backtracking. A fantastic final stage marred by a cheap final boss and several unskippable cutscenes. An arena that's not optional, but mandatory. It's like the game had everything that's good about RPGs and everything that's bad about RPGs. And then every once in a while something would come along like
a Super Mario Bros. stage where you play as Bowser
, and it'd make me say to myself, "Well, I won't shelve this quite yet." And then the backtracking and fetch quests would start up again.

It was worth the $20 I paid for it, but if the designers had just taken out the time-extending parts of the gameplay, the resulting fifteen-to-twenty-hour game would have been pure bliss. The N64 Paper Mario was a lot better--I might dig that out again.
 
I have 4-5 crystal stars so far. The boss fights are pretty fun, but inbetween the game isn't that great :P

Highly overrated, as was the original Paper Mario. SMRPG shits all over them both!
 
miyuru said:
I have 4-5 crystal stars so far. The boss fights are pretty fun, but inbetween the game isn't that great :P

Highly overrated, as was the original Paper Mario. SMRPG shits all over them both!
Click to expand...

I don't know about this newest one, but for me, Super Mario RPG, Paper Mario, and Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga are all pretty much equal in their greatness. I've only finished two out of the three though (Mario RPG and Mario & Luigi)
 
See, I'm not conceptually opposed to anything game designers do. Anything from random battles, to turn-based combat, to linear gameplay, to having to look at an environment more than one time -- those are things that can be done in an entertaining way and I think it's folly to just say that there "are things you don't do anymore." Not everything is action-based, not everything is open-ended like GTA, etc.

Paper Mario is, I think, one of Nintendo's few remaining really cool IPs. Since I'm design-concept agnostic, the quibbles come down to execution. I thought the problem with Paper Mario was that new wrenches were rarely thrown into the battle system. The power ups were weak (take 1hp less damage!), the enemies rarely surprising, and the strategy rarely complicated. I was so, so bored killing a monster with 6hp for the 100th time using the stupid goddamn jump attack.

But, really, I thought the rest was so enjoyable. The dialogue and characters were so stunningly well-written and funny that I didn't *want* to skip any cutscenes and I didn't just hit B to get through the talking bobble heads. That's a big deal for an RPG.
 
Different strokes for different folks. The PM games have always felt somewhat shallow versus other RPGs. There's some really great ideas in the games though, and for the most part the combat is more enjoyable than in other games too.

I always found the pacing of the story to be a bit lagging, perhaps that's it. I mean compare the pacing of PM2 to RE4 - I rarely finish games, but RE4 had a non-stop feel to it, I just had to finish it. It's like reading the Da Vinci Code: the chapters are only about 2-3 pages long, one of the fastest books I've ever read, where fastest refers to the pacing. Makes a huge difference in any form of entertainment, and it's something I believe PM could work on.
 
Both Paper Marios are on a completely differently level than either SMRPG or Mario and Luigi...(I should probably clarify...that's a higher level). In terms of combat structure, nothing in the latter two remotely approaches the value in swapping sidekicks, variety in abilities, and the pretty-darn-well implimented star special attacks to act as something beyond your typical HP/MP system.

I think I liked Paper Mario 64 a little better between the two though, just because I thought it was more interesting how the sidekicks were a little more dependent on Mario taking the attacks rather than the other way around. And the the designs were better. I mean, Watt is soooo much cooler than Flurrie...
 
GREAT game.

Who's cooler, Goldbob or Pennington?

On the one hand, Pennington is a fucking penguin. On the other hand, Goldbob is a fucking golden bob omb with a moustache and a top hat.
 
I just finished it and I really enjoyed it. Finished it in just a hair under 29 hours. The only problem was the Poshley Heights star. I got the real one and I was "wtf?" because it was so easy to get.

The game's puzzles were non-obvious in the obvious sort of way. I don't know how to describe it but its pretty much that.

I give it a 9/10.
 
I always felt the backtracking elements in the Paper Mario games were similar to the way you have to backtrack in the Zelda games. There is nothing cooler than having to revisit an old town only to find that you can explore more of it thanks to a new power you've unlocked.

So that said, complaints about backtracking = lame.
 
These backtracking comments are weak. Every RPG has backtracking to a degree. The entire game oozed with charm and personality, and was so refreshingly different from the slew of other RPGs this generation. I rarely have time for a game of this length nowadays, but with PM2 I made time, I enjoyed it so much.
 
Man, I couldn't put this game down. Backtracking is such an RPG staple, it didn't bug me to find it in Mario. At least you found new stuff to do, and the game also gave you a decent amount of shortcuts to get where you were going.

Don't get where the final boss was cheap either, I had no problem with it.

One of the best games last year.
 
I loved the hell out of this game. Very few games get enough playtime from me to finish them; this was one of them. I was more than happy with it at full price, and even if I found little to like about the Gamecube otherwise, I'm glad I got to experience this game.
 
The only backtracking that pissed me off was when you were looking for that person and you had to visit every single town only for someone to say "err, I think he's gone to that other town". All the rest of the backtracking was totally natural for an RPG, and I didn't think it was as bad as Mario & Luigi RPG in terms of backtracking either.

The stadium was integrated into the story pretty well, and made good use of the different abilities. I think of it as more a fighting tutorial than anything else, because up to that point you didn't have to use so many different attacks.
 
I really loved Thousand Year Door. The writing, though light-hearted, is superb and genuinely funny at time. It's also a bit like a fanboy lovefest - enough Mario references to fill you up for some time (that's part of why I love my Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga as well... the last dungeon there gave me SMB3 LOVE). It does have some irritating backtrackin', but it's par the course for this genre at this point. God, I love the battle system too AND I liked the arena part (particularly all the other fighters that you meet and talk to).

As to the points of yours I do agree with, it'd be the unskippable cutscene at the end. I wouldn't call the final boss difficult (everything in the game seemed easy to me as it should be here), but losing even once and having to go through that long tedious scene with the
princess turning MWA HA HA
... annoying. But not enough for it to be even remotely not worth the full price tag I paid for it.
 
This summer, I will finish this game...I started it, and then pretty much forgot about it. Overall, I think Superstar Saga is a better game, but Thousand Year Door, deserves a ton of respect as well.
 
They're all amazing games, but they're each terrific in their own way, although nothing has yet to come close to the feeling I got when playing Mario RPG on SNES.

To be honest, I wasn't a huge Paper Mario fan on N64, but I think the newer one is kickass. Mario & Luigi is great too. It's obvious Paper Mario and M&L are going to be their own ongoing series.. it'd be nice if we could get a 3rd series in Mario RPG. Heh.

I wouldn't doubt us seeing a new one on DS or Rev in the future, from Square even.
 
It's fun, but hardly captivating as an adventure. Intelligent Systems has a gift for creating excellent battle systems. I would give it an 8.7.
 
Probably the best dialogue in an RPG that I've ever played. Also, I love the great art style in the game, and how different areas had different art stlyes. The sprites are all hi res, and the game's ability to throw hundreds of characters at once on the screen is a treat.

I had fun with this game, definately worth playing.
 
I liked it. And just because you made this thread, I'm going back and playing through the arena. Maybe I'll try the 100 level thing or whatever.
 
Spencerr said:
I liked it. And just because you made this thread, I'm going back and playing through the arena. Maybe I'll try the 100 level thing or whatever.
Click to expand...

Yeah I can't wait to try that after I finish it.
 
I liked that your decisions mattered. Dialogue continued even if you picked the "silly" or less popular answer, and for the first time since Dragon Warrior, perhaps,
you can pick to side with the final enemy, and the game accepts your choice! You get a little message and a game over, but that's something I've joked about before with games, so to see Paper Mario TTYD allow that blew my mind, I loved it. Did make the unskippable cinemas around that point a bit tiring the second time, though.


One thing about one of the retro Bowser levels... I think the last one, that's sort of an underground level... there's a bit with a springboard you use to go up top-side with a staircase and all that, but it looked like there was more afterward you could get to if you were the correct size and leaped over the springboard. I tried it a few times with no luck (the jump's a bit fiddly), is that possible, or is it just a tease?
 
As for those of you who say that backtracking is common in RPGs--SMT: Nocturne, Shadow Hearts, and Shadow Hearts: Covenant (the last three RPGs I've played before Paper Mario) have almost none, and when it does exist it's not nearly as obviously implemented as it is in Paper Mario: TTYD (like the bit when you have to
visit every single area of the game to find that one Bob-omb character
). Anyway, just because a number of console RPGs do have backtracking doesn't make it right.

As for the final boss--to be fair, I was under-leveled by one or two levels when I got to it. But still, the
three turns' worth of invincibility, and the ability to heal itself halfway through the fight, so that what you do for those first 75 hp doesn't matter:
I was displeased by that. I didn't have any problem with the boss the second time through, when I
saved my items for the second, true phase of the fight
.

That said, I did like the dialogue in TTYD (though I didn't have too many laugh-out-loud moments, as I did with Mario and Luigi). And though the concept of a world made out of paper wasn't as well-implemented as it was in N64 Paper Mario, it was still nice to have a change in graphical style from the usual polygon-pushing games.
 
miyuru said:
I have 4-5 crystal stars so far. The boss fights are pretty fun, but inbetween the game isn't that great :P

Highly overrated, as was the original Paper Mario. SMRPG shits all over them both!
Click to expand...
I thought the original PM was fantastic, but this one was lacking.

If I had to rank, M&L > PM > Mario RPG > PM2
 
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