gundamkyoukai
Member
GoW did nothing new it was more refinement and better looking gfx .
People calling for innovation but all the eg i seeing are refinement and the natural progression of having better tech .
"Just looked like a last gen game with next-gen graphics, who cares?"
- Thread starter Amir0x
- Start date
GoW did nothing new it was more refinement and better looking gfx .
People calling for innovation but all the eg i seeing are refinement and the natural progression of having better tech .
I can't think of too many co-op squad based third person shooters outside of Brute Force, and the less talked about that game the better. I'm a PC guy foremost, but it'd be disingenuous to say there were many games doing what Gears was doing, especially on that graphical scale. The original commercial was pretty much a cultural phenomenon. The Order is a great looking game, gorgeous, but personally, it's not something I'd drop $400 for. The Order is looking like a dime a dozen, with an interesting setting, but I can only blow up set pieces so many times, before next gen smoke looses it's wow factor.
DangerMouse
Member
Agreed. Also, nothing wrong with a better version of a type of game I loved combined with truly next-gen graphics.
Rising_Hei
Member
The jump just isn't just powerful enough to bring new experiences "that easily"
And that's perfectly fine, but lets not go crazy if a next gen game is criticized for not using the power of next gen to deliver new gameplay experiences to us.
If there's an expextation for next gen graphics, then why is it a problem for gameplay?
DangerMouse
Member
Good job Amirox.
Well said. Both are good.
And that's fine too, plenty of room for that as well!
But not every game is going to have it or need it. Some games just refine what came before them to be even better, some games want to try something different or that doesn't fit so they have to do something different. Also, even when games do aim for different gameplay it doesn't prevent them from being raked over the coals for it either.
Well said. Both are good.
And that's fine too, plenty of room for that as well!
But not every game is going to have it or need it. Some games just refine what came before them to be even better, some games want to try something different or that doesn't fit so they have to do something different. Also, even when games do aim for different gameplay it doesn't prevent them from being raked over the coals for it either.
Great Puma
Member
In my opinion, what a lot of people (myself included) are looking for is something they haven't seen before and couldn't currently imagine. That's a high bar, but honestly, I think it's fair given that we've all been asked to pay big money to start over with new consoles that, so far, haven't fully proven they were needed.
That's not to say that well-excecuted versions of current game types don't have value -- of course they do. But so far this new console generation has showed the smallest leap forward in history, so I think there's still this feeling of waiting for the fireworks to go off -- the explosion of Super Mario 64, Metal Gear Solid 2, Halo, or hell, even Wii Sports.
I think that's also why many people (again, myself included) are so hopeful of VR. Morpheus could be that game-changing, history-making element.
That's not to say that well-excecuted versions of current game types don't have value -- of course they do. But so far this new console generation has showed the smallest leap forward in history, so I think there's still this feeling of waiting for the fireworks to go off -- the explosion of Super Mario 64, Metal Gear Solid 2, Halo, or hell, even Wii Sports.
I think that's also why many people (again, myself included) are so hopeful of VR. Morpheus could be that game-changing, history-making element.
Randolph Freelander
Member
I could not care less about innovation. In fact, within a series, I'd prefer they not change a thing about the way the game plays between iterations. From series to series, obviously they are free to do whatever they like, but I'm not specifically asking for anything there, either.
As such, it does not bother me if anything on PS4 is not all that different from PS3, just as it did not bother me when games on Xbox 360 weren't all that different from OG Xbox. Through the transitive property, PS4 games could play exactly like PS2 games and I would be fine with it.
I only ask that game developers get better at stories. The better they become, the more likely I am to continue participating in this hobby.
In short, leave gameplay alone, it doesn't bother me. Leave graphics alone, too, for all I care, but I guess that's a different topic (but it follows that improved graphics aren't a draw, which is why I have no problem just continuing with PS3 for now). Tell new stories, and get better at doing it. That's all I care about.
As such, it does not bother me if anything on PS4 is not all that different from PS3, just as it did not bother me when games on Xbox 360 weren't all that different from OG Xbox. Through the transitive property, PS4 games could play exactly like PS2 games and I would be fine with it.
I only ask that game developers get better at stories. The better they become, the more likely I am to continue participating in this hobby.
In short, leave gameplay alone, it doesn't bother me. Leave graphics alone, too, for all I care, but I guess that's a different topic (but it follows that improved graphics aren't a draw, which is why I have no problem just continuing with PS3 for now). Tell new stories, and get better at doing it. That's all I care about.
for me the cinematic trailer bits or whatever of the order looked so impressive that when they showed gameplay and it was just generic tps i was kinda like "huh"
like "oh right, videogames"
sorta feels like the visuals are a waste or something
i think it's like the moment when you see gameplay and it is a white dude shooting dudes in an alley reloading behind cover and i dunno i think my eyes went glassy and out of focus
that's just me tho, i was never that invested in it though so whatevs
like "oh right, videogames"
sorta feels like the visuals are a waste or something
i think it's like the moment when you see gameplay and it is a white dude shooting dudes in an alley reloading behind cover and i dunno i think my eyes went glassy and out of focus
that's just me tho, i was never that invested in it though so whatevs
I don't know. I don't know what next gen gameplay is until I see it. And when I see it, I'll KNOW it. Pretty much instantly. I will say "That is something that simply could not be done in the next generation." I know what "standard" feels like and looks like. I've been playing it for over a decade. It's the developers selling us the game who have to show us what next gen gameplay is.
I'm not a person that will dismiss standard gameplay. However, if you are rocking something that's pretty bog standard, everything else around it better be some high level shit. Some real game changing features or something. Otherwise, it's a rental.
See, it comes down to money. These platform holders and these developers are attempting to force a new generation (as it goes of course) and people will always step back and go "why is this worth my money? Show me something I don't believe was possible last time around for you to earn this money." Money not only for your system, but your game and your subscription service. Why should I invest in this?
Platform holders dragged out the last gen for eight years. Consumers and gamers have seen a lot in that time frame. Now you want them to spend more money to invest again. These developers have to show them why.
So far, few have. They will. Sooner or later. But with something like The Order (for example, one among many)...from what they (Sony) have chosen to show me, I have no reason to invest. Pretty graphics are nice and all but they have never been enough. You get used to it. However, the gameplay offers me nothing more than a rental. It's a fling. A one night stand. Maybe a couple. But that's it.
That next gen gameplay is something we know when we see it. Otherwise, I could stick with my Vita and indies, spend a 1/4 of the money and be A-okay!
fatigues_gasolini
Member
I'm still trying to figure out what next gen gameplay is
IncandescentPrecept
Banned
I'm sorry if you bought into a marketing term. Games haven't come out that's only possible now for years.
CadetMahoney
Member
Dat first post.
EmptySpace
Banned
boom headshot.
most don't even know what they want. if they don't want something they've already played before, that doesn't mean every genre or game will suddenly be "lolz last gen".
it just means you want to play nontraditional games, which does not require a new gen.
what game last gen was so far ahead nit couldn't be pulled off on ps2? as far as i'm concerned, shadow of the colossus had better gameplay than the next-gen assassins creed. guess which game was on the next gen?
technologies play a key role in game design, but tech can't do without ideas, in the same way that great ideas can work with old tech.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Omotesando
Member
People want their next gen gameplay along with their Ass Creed and CoD.
It's about balance.
It's about balance.
EmptySpace
Banned
basically they want something else to play, which doesn't need next gen nor is it exclusive to next gen.
new ideas can come from anywhere. why are you faulting a game because you want something else entirely? worse, why are people singling out this game when plenty has had "lolz last gen gameplay"?
Some peeps just dun care about shiny new graphics an wanna keep on playing their fave game series without bumping into a mandatory $400~ish paywall. I know that if VF5, Yakuza 3, DMC4, etc. had also come out on PS2, I wouldn't have gotten a PS3 as early as I did. None of 'em shook thing up gameplay-wise over their predecessors which couldn't have reasonably been replicated on PS2 so why not make 'em for that system to? I dun need games in a series to wildly shakeup the gameplay experience each an every time but I'm no graphics whore either. People may not really want super new gameplay things, they just buy a new system begrudgingly cause the previous ones being abandoned, so they gotta gripe about something an that something is "why do I gotta buy a new system to play the same crap?". All these cross-gen ports floating about this time around prolly ain't helping matters either!
I have no idea what what 'next gen gameplay' really means. Maybe part of that is simply being a PC first gamer and so evolutionary changes to game types really don't stand out to me as 'next gen gameplay'. So added some RPG bits like leveling/unlocks to shooters didn't really seem like some grand achievement of gameplay for instance.
I guess something that might be 'next gen gameplay' would be a completely different attitude to AI versus presentation in terms of development and hardware resources.
I guess something that might be 'next gen gameplay' would be a completely different attitude to AI versus presentation in terms of development and hardware resources.
backbreaker65
Banned
Gamers killed Games.
Can someone tell me if they have ever heard this "last-gen gameplay" argument before this current gen? I've been visiting game forums since ~2001 and I've never heard this type of complaint before until only a few months ago. Have people complained about "Last-gen gameplay" in the PS3, PS2 era and before?
Xenon
Member
Funny how these threads always pop up once a hotly anticipated game receives lack luster reception. There are a lot of different opinions being expressed here but I'd like to address a few.
I don't think most people want innovation for it's own sake in established series. A graphical bump, some new features and tweaking will keep most fans of a series happy. That does not mean change for the better is not appreciated, especially when thing have gotten a little stale.
Last gen has destroyed this gen as far as new and innovated titles go. It really is shame what were getting with these new machines. It seems like consoles manufacturers have left innovation to the indies, which for me does not cut it.
Innovation does not have to be some huge dramatic change in how games are played. Ryse and Knack get shat on for their simplicity, But they both did a great job of blending good old fashion gaming into a seamless cinematic package. Note: Both these games have their own depth if you care to look for it.
New IP's do need to be scrutinized on what original content they bring to the table. I feel that just bringing graphics is not enough. If that's all you want, good for you. I want more! Graphics are not the reason I haven't bought many games in the last few years.
I would rather see people call out studios for lack of creativity, than bitch about frame-rate and resolution. If the game is good and playable, who cares?
I don't think most people want innovation for it's own sake in established series. A graphical bump, some new features and tweaking will keep most fans of a series happy. That does not mean change for the better is not appreciated, especially when thing have gotten a little stale.
Last gen has destroyed this gen as far as new and innovated titles go. It really is shame what were getting with these new machines. It seems like consoles manufacturers have left innovation to the indies, which for me does not cut it.
Innovation does not have to be some huge dramatic change in how games are played. Ryse and Knack get shat on for their simplicity, But they both did a great job of blending good old fashion gaming into a seamless cinematic package. Note: Both these games have their own depth if you care to look for it.
New IP's do need to be scrutinized on what original content they bring to the table. I feel that just bringing graphics is not enough. If that's all you want, good for you. I want more! Graphics are not the reason I haven't bought many games in the last few years.
I would rather see people call out studios for lack of creativity, than bitch about frame-rate and resolution. If the game is good and playable, who cares?
Ya don't remember the Xbox 1.5 stuff when a bunch of its early games were last-gen ports? Even NES to SNES was like hey theres Mario for the 40th time but now he can ride a dino/dragon!! Next-gen...?
EmptySpace
Banned
no because people are trying to associate mechanics with generations, which is stupid.
oh gosh you can now go in and out of cover! new gen!
wait, this 2014 game lets you in and out of cover? ew that's so last gen.
there are designs that would naturally arise with tech, especially the proliferation of online mechanics in games like demons souls or borderlands or whatever. then there are mechanics and designs that don't arise from new tech. mass effect gameplay was done before ps3 era. mirrors edge gameplay was first explored on the ps1, minecraft can run on old laptops, etc.
farmerboy
Member
I play games to go places I've never been and to do things I've never done, so immersion is the thing I rely on most in games. Graphical fidelity certainly helps with that, so if a game plays like last gen but looks better I don't have a problem, so long as it's a solid game.
We will get the games we really want as the generation progresses and developers take more risk. I think that maybe we have seen all there is to see and true innovation will be further and further apart. So let's enjoy what we have for all it's good points instead of tearing things apart for some perceived bad points.
It's better than "next-gen graphics". If I'm going to buy a console it's got to offer me something over a shiny coat of paint, as I'm perfectly content with the previous generation's graphics.
Maybe we should take a look at the upcoming games where the developers are choosing not to support PS3 or Xbox 360 for ostensibly gameplay-related reasons. Right now cross-gen games are the norm, but we're seeing announcements where the developers are actually telling us what they're making isn't possible on the old hardware.
The Witcher 3
Evolve
Assassin's Creed Unity
The Division
and others...
Maybe some of those are current-gen-only because the developers want to work with a certain graphical ceiling. CDprojekt said TW3 would have to be a different game on PS3 and 360. The guys making Evolve said the way the environment looks plays a lot into the gameplay, and it's just too complex to do on older consoles. Maybe that's just refinement up to a point where it needs more hardware. Maybe all we're gonna get until we move up to a better control interface is bigger worlds with more things going on in those worlds.
You know what? You are goddamn right.
Imagine if 2014 THIEF really was just Thief II with today's graphics.
The Witcher 3
Evolve
Assassin's Creed Unity
The Division
and others...
Maybe some of those are current-gen-only because the developers want to work with a certain graphical ceiling. CDprojekt said TW3 would have to be a different game on PS3 and 360. The guys making Evolve said the way the environment looks plays a lot into the gameplay, and it's just too complex to do on older consoles. Maybe that's just refinement up to a point where it needs more hardware. Maybe all we're gonna get until we move up to a better control interface is bigger worlds with more things going on in those worlds.
You know what? You are goddamn right.
Imagine if 2014 THIEF really was just Thief II with today's graphics.
In the same way people are tired of playing call of duty and halo and music games. These trailers probably have the best five minutes of the game to try and sell it to consumers and if that's boring, then you can't blame people for saying meh. I'm not saying the order is a bad game, but the trailers have looked boring. Same for watch dogs, infamous, killzone, knack. Drive club before the delay looked like ass and played like any other racing game.
People have wowed at uncharted, the last of us, gta V recently so I think neogaf in general are pretty good judges when it comes to reading between the lines.
People have wowed at uncharted, the last of us, gta V recently so I think neogaf in general are pretty good judges when it comes to reading between the lines.
Dr. Buni
Member
This next-gen gameplay thing is something I never understood. People are too obsessed with innovation, when most of the best games out there weren't innovative.
If that is the case, then I am glad we don't get games with "next gen gameplay" anymore.
DangerMouse
Member
Interesting, then it may indeed turn out good because despite some of the loudest saying their same criticisms multiple times, criticisms not entirely dissimilar to those thrown at Uncharted (and TLOU) at times, many were indeed wowed by The Order video. Just look at the reactions while it was playing. Not to say that the game will be for everybody ofcourse. Some people may not like the setting, art style, or TPS games.
pillowtalk
Member
The last time I felt I was playing "next gen gameplay" was with AR games coupled with GPS trackers. Didn't really think it was all that fun, but I think there's still room for exploring/improvements in that field, but no one I know (including me) would want to play it more.
DangerMouse
Member
Agreed.
Many of those people acting like cover is "so last gen" would be the first to go "why the heck am I just standing out in the open getting shot at when there's freaking cover, why can't I use it?!". "This is next-gen I should be able use cover dammit! We could do it last gen, are we going backwards?!". Case in point, while the game may or may not have good AI, many of the enemies use cover but the one AI guy on the balcony who stands there for a moment before shooting (which somehow some people missed despite the bullet trails) perhaps only because the difficulty setting is on easy draws most of the ire.
But cover's so last gen... Cover can't be both last gen and want better AI that does stuff like using it properly.
Also "next-gen gameplay" can come from anywhere including indies, which many of the same people choose to write off entirely ironically because of no next-gen graphics even when they look pretty.
Or as backbreaker65 just said, the "WTF is this shit" reaction to some of these games even when they do have next-gen graphics.
Yup, and yet Watch Dogs is regularly raked over the coals (perhaps not by the same people) cause doing new things (despite some GTA similarity, since nowadays everything is similar to something) isn't good enough either. I think it really comes down to you can't please everybody.
Also, perhaps I don't need it in every game since I'm more of a third person character action/adventure/platformer game and JRPG gamer so the biggest draws for me are unique setting, story, art style, characters first and then some innovation, some new unique combat bits specific to said character's style, perhaps some re-invention of old things in new ways, etc, rather than outright innovation. But I enjoy outright innovation too.
The Order had such a unique style and setting, it's pretty devastating to learn that it's just another game where I sit behind a box waiting for some other dude who is sitting behind a box to poke his head out so I can shoot him. The original trailer made me think I would be fighting the unholy forces of darkness and instead I am just fighting some other guys that have guns. What happened?
Developers don't need to completely invent new genres, but they need to be making clever amalgamations of old ones with refreshing mechanics and art styles. Titanfall and Sunset Overdrive would be great examples of games that draw from multiple influences to create something cool and fresh that plays pretty uniquely. It's hard to watch videos of those games and not get excited to play them. It's conversely quite difficult to watch a game that plays like Gears of War Part 8 and get particularly jazzed about it.
Metal Gear Solid V feels like a pretty apt re-invention of the stealth genre, with its open-world conceits and flow. The "reflex" time thing is cool but not to the point where you can abuse it relentlessly, and the radio chatter that got stale-as-fuck in previous MGS games has been almost completely removed.
Developers don't need to completely invent new genres, but they need to be making clever amalgamations of old ones with refreshing mechanics and art styles. Titanfall and Sunset Overdrive would be great examples of games that draw from multiple influences to create something cool and fresh that plays pretty uniquely. It's hard to watch videos of those games and not get excited to play them. It's conversely quite difficult to watch a game that plays like Gears of War Part 8 and get particularly jazzed about it.
Metal Gear Solid V feels like a pretty apt re-invention of the stealth genre, with its open-world conceits and flow. The "reflex" time thing is cool but not to the point where you can abuse it relentlessly, and the radio chatter that got stale-as-fuck in previous MGS games has been almost completely removed.
It's not about when you're fighting them, its about the stealth in a crowd mechanic, and the way the city and crowds work in relation to what the player has to do. An open world game like that on the xbox or ps2, with any crowds at all would be nigh impossible to pull of, especially ones where you could be contextually sensitive to the degree you can in assassins creed. I'm not saying that dead rising can't be done on the ps2, just saying it would suck in comparison to the 360 (hence my wii comparison), as goes for left 4 dead.
The evolution of this sort of game is to increase the contextual and gameplay aspect of more dynamic systems, giving life to a city in gta with not only smarter ai, but ai that think in act in a way predictable within the entire context of the environment. People buy groceries, there's traffic patterns, banks are busier at noon, police maybe less willing to act in a rundown-poor neighborhood than a rich one. These are concepts were starting to delve into now in game design in meaningful ways. Follow a target from home to work to home again, he lives in a house, does a job, he matters in the context of the city and doesn't just spawn around the nearest corner.
graphics will come regardless, but if thats all people want then why do people care so much about new IP's, why doesn't Microsoft just remake halo 1-3 and call it a day, do that every 2 years. New ip's offer a glimpse at potentially new concepts. People are excited about the prospects of games like the division and watch-dogs because of new gameplay opportunities as much as new graphics.
I think the reason The Order in particular gets slammed is that it's gameplay looks like the type of game that was already dying out at the end of last generation.
It's Sony's big new action IP for their big new console. Usually new IPs, first party games, and games at the dawn of a new generation are expected to push lots of boundaries, so this seemingly not doing so, and also leaning in on a style that defined the beginning of last gen, extracts a stronger response than normal. If we combine this with the general lack of other announced AAA action games from Sony, it's harder to write off as part of a diversified line-up that includes both the new and the old.
Ryse over on Microsoft's end got similar complaints. Both titles have wonderful graphics and production values, but don't spark the imagination of what the new consoles can offer beyond that.
It's Sony's big new action IP for their big new console. Usually new IPs, first party games, and games at the dawn of a new generation are expected to push lots of boundaries, so this seemingly not doing so, and also leaning in on a style that defined the beginning of last gen, extracts a stronger response than normal. If we combine this with the general lack of other announced AAA action games from Sony, it's harder to write off as part of a diversified line-up that includes both the new and the old.
Ryse over on Microsoft's end got similar complaints. Both titles have wonderful graphics and production values, but don't spark the imagination of what the new consoles can offer beyond that.
What happened is they haven't shown everything yet, obviously. There were glimpses of mysterious creatures in the initial reveal. What else would you like to do in the game?
What doors were opened in the previous generation that couldn't be done the gen before with visual downgrades?
Honestly, this current gen gameplay complaint is a misnomer. There's no such thing as next gen gameplay, and there never has been. Add to that, innovation does not necessarily make a great game, to the contrary, some of the highest rated games of all time are simply games that do more of the same but better, e.g. Last of Us, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Half Life 2, GTA V, Resident Evil 4, Uncharted 2, Read Dead Redemption, Gran Turismo 3: A Spec, The Legend of Zelda: Major's Mask and so on and so on.
Anyway, great OP Amir0x.
According to Ready at Dawn, their biggest inspirations are the ND games, Uncharted and Last of Us. Given Last of Us's success in both sales and reception, I don't think it's fair to say that that this type of game was already dying out at the end of the last generation. Last of Us instead lit a fire under the ass of the genre.
I was hoping for some interesting and unconventional steampunk inspired weaponry, some melee combat options, perhaps some spells or interesting powers and abilities. I was hoping to see interesting battles between our intrepid crew and demons, ghosts, vampires, witches, etc.
I'm sure there's more to be revealed, but the recent footage has had such a strong focus on gameplay concepts that are at best generic and at worst played out. It's hard not to be discouraged.
I think if they were showing what felt like immediately obvious jumps in the gameplay mechanics of the genre the way TLOU's debut did there would be notably less complaints.
The game could be brilliant with all sorts of gameplay revolutions, but they have to make those shine through loud and clear if they exist and want people to know about them.
3rdamention
Member
I haven't read the entire thread, but I would live a definition of "next gen gameplay" that reviewers keep wanting to see
Xisiqomelir
Member
Gameplay > Graphics, always and forever.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
The weekend has only just began.
Really good OP.
A good example, I thought, of a game that doesn't foolishly attempt to "innovate" for its own sake, and instead simply is just a really good "standard" game is the new Wolfenstein (judging by the glowing posts in the W:TNO OT). It just takes what makes shooters good and makes a good shooter.
I actually think we need more games that get established formulas of mechanics and design down perfectly. Far more.
You could be right, though I do seem to recall many people complaining about LoU's debut gameplay looking too scripted and linear, others saying it just looked like a slower paced Uncharted etc. People can be quite cynical and often judge prematurely. Though I do agree that none of the gameplay shown of The Order makes any where near the impact that Last of Us's initial demo did, at least for me personally, beyond the graphics that is.
Here's hoping they have a killer gameplay demo lined up for E3.
Oh for sure, there will always be some complaining about anything simply due to the range of possible opinions on a subject.
I'm just suggesting this is why I feel we have more complaining than your average debut.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
And this is why the we want new IPs crowd is overrated. You can make all the new IPs you want but it better not be a fresh coat of paint over an existing ip damnit.
LightofRohan
Member
Wow. I like the new Amir0x. I've been saying this in my head all day... this entertainment thing is a really odd thing. Gamers seem to only care about what new mechanics are brought to the table that completely alter the game space...
If only the game had a DDR Dance minigame every time you reload, then it would be unique and interesting! Also, people need to understand that this is still the beginning of the generation and it takes a lot to develop and iterate on new hardware.
Why can people no longer appreciate the evolution of art, tech, sound, concept, performance? I'm not saying abandon all preference and just go for visuals, but this is still art being created and you are literally contributing nothing (when watching a video), can't you just admire without being so hyper-critical and dismissive of a game?
Criticism and critiques are fine, but the aloof angsty pessimistic attitude is just so destructive and arrogant.
If only the game had a DDR Dance minigame every time you reload, then it would be unique and interesting! Also, people need to understand that this is still the beginning of the generation and it takes a lot to develop and iterate on new hardware.
Why can people no longer appreciate the evolution of art, tech, sound, concept, performance? I'm not saying abandon all preference and just go for visuals, but this is still art being created and you are literally contributing nothing (when watching a video), can't you just admire without being so hyper-critical and dismissive of a game?
Criticism and critiques are fine, but the aloof angsty pessimistic attitude is just so destructive and arrogant.
paperspace
Member
I'm not sure if there's a thing called next-gen gameplay, but I'm definitely interested in some new and unique gameplay mechanics. I'm tired of seeing the standard Gears of War/CoD gameplay being used in every other game. I'd like to be challenged, give me something that requires me to think, don't treat me like I'm an idiot and reward me for doing nothing.
Bluemercury
Member
Its about experiences, and these next gen systems have yet to give anything really compellingly different and exciting when compared to previous consoles...besides the new tech...