Support NeoGAF

[adamsapple]

The Last of Us was pretty funny, I agree.

You know Ellie, we really are the last of us.

 

[Gambit2483]

Imagine being a gamer and being anti Gamepass

Best thing in gaming for a long time now.

Imagine being forced to pay hiked prices for a subscription service and never owning your games

 

[ungalo]

I'll never understand those statements and debates.

Microsoft offered a good deal and that's it. Why are we talking about sales or saying "it's going to save AA games" ? It's basically Microsoft giving money to studios.

 

[adamsapple]

Imagine being forced to pay hiked prices for a subscription service and never owning your games

No one's forcing you

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Imagine being forced to pay hiked prices for a subscription service and never owning your games

Don’t subscribe and buy your games at $70 a pop so you can “own” them

Good thing we have options.

 

[Punished Miku]

I'll never understand those statements and debates.

Microsoft offered a good deal and that's it. Why are we talking about sales or saying "it's going to save AA games" ? It's basically Microsoft giving money to studios.

It's discussing the impact of a new revenue option for lesser known games, such as this one. Without GP, try and predict the sales trajectory of this game. MC was 61 at launch. New IP. No marketing. AA game.

What do you think would have happened?

 

[Magic Carpet]

Imagine being forced to pay hiked prices for a subscription service and never owning your games

I don't understand this post. You can still buy the games whenever you want. They are even on sale while they are on Gamepass.
WTF?

 

[ProtoByte]

Games like High On Life and Pentiment are clearly leagues better than the drizzling shits most AAA companies have put out recently. If GamePass gives me a High On Life sequel, and kills off any more Saint's Row games, then it'll be doing god's work.

So much better that no one, "hardcore enthusiasts" in this very thread self-admittidely included, would've ever bought either of them.

By the way, can we stop citing Pentiment like it's some revolution that would be impossible without Gamepass? Disco Elysium managed to sell more than fine on its own merits 3 years ago.

 

[Punished Miku]

By the way, can we stop citing Pentiment like it's some revolution that would be impossible without Gamepass?

Probably not, considering the director of the game publicly said the opposite of what you're pushing. But I'm sure you are the authority somehow.

 

[Ozriel]

It's doing well on Steam and that's probably driven in part by strong word of mouth, but that's really the only SKU where they're gonna see significant sales, since it's console exclusive.

I heard Roiland saying something like "I hope it does well so we can make more," which makes it seem like whatever they paid for it they are hoping for it to sell a lot on top of that and I wonder if just Steam will be enough for that. Do people actually buy games like this on Xbox when they are in Game Pass Day One?

A lot of Xbox owners aren't on Gamepass

By the way, can we stop citing Pentiment like it's some revolution that would be impossible without Gamepass? Disco Elysium managed to sell more than fine on its own merits 3 years ago.

All he said is its a great game. You imagined the other argument since it doesn't exist in his post.

 

[MOTM]

Imagine being forced to pay hiked prices for a subscription service and never owning your games

Are you responding to this from 1998 or something?

 

[ungalo]

It's discussing the impact of a new revenue option for lesser known games, such as this one. Without GP, try and predict the sales trajectory of this game. MC was 61 at launch. New IP. No marketing. AA game.

What do you think would have happened?

My point is what's implied when he talks about "7 times the sales". It's completely misleading. It makes you believe Gamepass is a global model like Spotify that any studio would and could use because it would boast the numer of sales or even just the number of players. But a game like High on Life doesn't benefit at all to have a low barrier of entry, it has no microtransactions or anything.

So it's just about that particular deal. It could have been a good old exclusive deal or anything (the game is also exclusive so that's probably a part of it), it would have limited the risks in the same way. It is just completely obvious that if Microsoft gives you a lot of money, having your game in the Gamepass is worth it, i don't get why it's even worth mentioning everytime.

To make a distinction between indies/AA and AAA makes no sense, it works exactly the same way. It's just that for Microsoft it's more interesting to have multiple small deals rather than one very big deal for an AAA game, so it works better with those games in the service. But even with a hundred small deals, you cannot call this a system that works on its own. Everyone can't sneak into it if Microsoft is not willing to give money. And the fact it is sustainable or not to me is still very unclear.

 

[ProtoByte]

Probably not, considering the director of the game publicly said the opposite of what you're pushing. But I'm sure you are the authority somehow.

If Josh Sawyer had ever said that Pentiment is a revolution in game design, he would a self aggrandizing liar, and facts are the authority. The number of point andnclick adventure games with semi-unconventional artstyles, and/or with multiple story paths is quite large if you look at what's come out just recently.

He has suggested that it wasn't possible without Gamepass. Common sense and history are the authorities, and they say that that's bs.

Again, since you've ignored it the first time, let's name Disco Elysium, and also name Oxenfree and Night in The Woods, Mutazione, Kentucky Route Zero, and the list goes on.

All of these games were developed by no names with little in the way of experience. You're telling me that Obsidian, with all of its resources, experience and name recognition, isn't able to match them, even with or without Microsoft and certainly without Gamepass? If anything they should well exceed them.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that people weren't willing to actually pay for smaller scale indie games before Gamepass came along.

To make a distinction between indies/AA and AAA makes no sense, it works exactly the same way. It's just that for Microsoft it's more interesting to have multiple small deals rather than one very big deal for an AAA game, so it works better with those games in the service.

If there ever comes a point where there's no distinction to be made between indies and AAA publishers in this context, Microsoft would have entirely obliterated their audience's propensity to buy games. It's looking like they're on their way to that depending on which publishers you're talking about, but for now, let's put that aside.

There is absolutely a distinction right now though. I'd wager that Roiland's game would've done fine without Gamepass, but certainly not as many people would've jumped in to try it for however many minutes they did (though I think even less people will actually pay for the game now). Instead of building on moderate success independently, he decided to take Microsoft's guaranteed cash and some Gamepass clout. That's his prerogative.

For publishers like Ubisoft or something, there's nothing to be gained by putting your game on a subscription service day one. No reasonable amount of Microsoft's guaranteed cash can replace the revenue they would get from just selling the next Assassin's Creed or something.

 

[Hendrick's]

I don't understand this post. You can still buy the games whenever you want. They are even on sale while they are on Gamepass.
WTF?

The illogical hate for Game Pass from some people is truly baffling.

 

[Gambit2483]

Don’t subscribe and buy your games at $70 a pop so you can “own” them

Good thing we have options.

It's called conditioning.

That's like telling everyone to unsubscribe from Netflix and Hulu and just go buy all our DVDs again (oh and DVDs now all cost $40 each)

People have already been conditioned to no longer buy physical games on Xbox anymore. Give it 3 more years and it'll be 90% digital sales on Xbox with over 70% owners on Gamepass. Once you have people that hooked and conditioned consumers are at the mercy and whim of the subscription service.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

It's called conditioning.

That's like telling everyone to unsubscribe from Netflix and Hulu and just go buy all our DVDs again (oh and DVDs now all cost $40 each)

People have already been conditioned to no longer buy physical games on Xbox anymore. Give it 3 more years and it'll be 90% digital sales on Xbox with over 70% owners on Gamepass. Once you have people that hooked and conditioned consumers are at the mercy and whim of the subscription service.

Digital is growing on every platform, has nothing to do with Xbox. Also your doomsday scenario for GamePass growth far exceeds Microsoft’s own idea for its maximum market share. In other words it’s bullshit.

 

[RPS37]

"And I ultimately came to the conclusion based off of what I had heard that it is– it’s a value-add. Because essentially, there’s a lot of people that would otherwise not have picked up the game and played it."

I wouldn't have. Not at $60, certainly not. Games like these are one of the reasons why I churn out the Rewards points every day to stay subscribed to Game Pass year round.

We are brothers.
I used to think GP was worthless because “if I really want to play it, I can just buy it”
Now I’m dabbling in tons of decent to good games and I’m paying for it by getting achievement points.

 

[Ozriel]

It's called conditioning.

That's like telling everyone to unsubscribe from Netflix and Hulu and just go buy all our DVDs again (oh and DVDs now all cost $40 each)

People have already been conditioned to no longer buy physical games on Xbox anymore. Give it 3 more years and it'll be 90% digital sales on Xbox with over 70% owners on Gamepass. Once you have people that hooked and conditioned consumers are at the mercy and whim of the subscription service.

You really haven’t been paying attention to digital splits for every platform these days, have you? both first and third party data.

Your talking points are hopelessly outdated.

 

[Chupanibre]

It's called conditioning.

That's like telling everyone to unsubscribe from Netflix and Hulu and just go buy all our DVDs again (oh and DVDs now all cost $40 each)

People have already been conditioned to no longer buy physical games on Xbox anymore. Give it 3 more years and it'll be 90% digital sales on Xbox with over 70% owners on Gamepass. Once you have people that hooked and conditioned consumers are at the mercy and whim of the subscription service.

When you're dead and gone all these things you "own" are meaningless, and whether you enjoyed your hobby via a digital-only subscription or you fought against the evil will only matter to you.

Enjoy what you can while you can how you can. Some of you guys make this a way bigger deal than it actually is. For better or worse, we now have better access and more options to enjoy this hobby than ever before.

Stop telling the kids to get off your lawn and maybe just join them and have fun while you can.

 

[Chukhopops]

It's called conditioning.

That's like telling everyone to unsubscribe from Netflix and Hulu and just go buy all our DVDs again (oh and DVDs now all cost $40 each)

People have already been conditioned to no longer buy physical games on Xbox anymore. Give it 3 more years and it'll be 90% digital sales on Xbox with over 70% owners on Gamepass. Once you have people that hooked and conditioned consumers are at the mercy and whim of the subscription service.

PC is 98% digital and people still buy games. The push towards digital and the push towards sub model are two different things happening for different reasons.

The Last of Us was pretty funny, I agree.

I know I laughed during the zebra scene, it was so fucking forced I couldn’t help it.

 

[Gambit2483]

PC is 98% digital and people still buy games. The push towards digital and the push towards sub model are two different things happening for different reasons.

PC has steam, where games are constantly on sale and there's no constant monthly subscription fee.

Sorry if I prefer to have more control over what I do and don't own on console and how much I get screwed (or not) on a monthly basis from a monopoly based subscription service.

Once MS has everyone conditioned and cornered into their and ONLY their subscription service I'm sure they will become the most pro consumer business in the videogame space....yea no thanks

 

[adamsapple]

PC has steam, where games are constantly on sale and there's no constant monthly subscription fee.

Sorry if I prefer to have more control over what I do and don't own on console and how much I get screwed (or not) on a monthly basis from a monopoly based subscription service.

Once MS has everyone conditioned and cornered into their and ONLY their subscription service I'm sure they will become the most pro consumer business in the videogame space....yea no thanks

Games go on sale on consoles as well and there is no subscription needed to play your owned games.

What are you even talking about here ?

 

[Gambit2483]

Games go on sale on consoles as well and there is no subscription needed to play your owned games.

What are you even talking about here ?

I'm talking about the current and future Xbox ecosystem where physical sales are all but dead and everyone is being conditioned to sign up to a subscription service that will ultimately have them by the balls.

And saying you can buy games discounted on Gamepass is like Netflix offering users to "buy" movies to own at a heavily discounted rate. Sure it's there, but no one's really doing it.

 

[adamsapple]

I'm talking about the current and future Xbox ecosystem where physical sales are all but dead and everyone is being conditioned to sign up to a subscription service that will ultimately have them by the balls.

And saying you can buy games discounted on Gamepass is like Netflix offering users to "buy" movies to own at a heavily discounted rate. Sure it's there, but no one's really doing it.

GamesIndustry.biz presents… The Year In Numbers 2022

Sign up for the GI Daily here to get the biggest news straight to your inbox 2022 has been a busy year for GamesIndustr…

www.gamesindustry.biz

The gulf between physical and digital is world wide and the Xbox ecosystem is not the only place where that is happening.

And to your second point, the CHOICE is there for users. They can buy to keep the games permanently with a discount. There isn't any game that is *only* available on game pass.

Your anger is misguided here.

 

[Chukhopops]

PC has steam, where games are constantly on sale and there's no constant monthly subscription fee.

Sorry if I prefer to have more control over what I do and don't own on console and how much I get screwed (or not) on a monthly basis from a monopoly based subscription service.

Once MS has everyone conditioned and cornered into their and ONLY their subscription service I'm sure they will become the most pro consumer business in the videogame space....yea no thanks

I don’t see how that responds to my post in any way.

Nobody’s forcing you to sub or buy digital, you just made up this alternate future where somehow it becomes the only way to play games. But so far there’s absolutely zero sign of it, no exclusive content for subscription services, no early access, nothing - it’s just a fantasy.

 

[jakinov]

"We are an indie studio. We're small"

That is the point of GP. (small projects)

The issue arises when taking about AAA Day one Games.

Now we shall see how High on Life sells on xboxs.

What issue?

The point of GP isnt small projects it’s to sell access to a bundle of games that are budget agnostic under a subscription.

Whether an outside game developer makes more money making a GP deal or selling directly is a case by case basis. There’s a higher ceiling for an individual project being sold but there’s significant less risk, more reach, and in some cases guaranteed profitability by making a deal.


It’s a trade off not an issue. It works the same way video streaming works except there’s a lot going for gaming that makes things even more economical, e.g. no residuals, no profit participants, no powerful unions, cheap to operate core service, historically nobody blocking other revenue streams, etc.

 

[Jimmyisback]

I'm talking about the current and future Xbox ecosystem where physical sales are all but dead and everyone is being conditioned to sign up to a subscription service that will ultimately have them by the balls.

And saying you can buy games discounted on Gamepass is like Netflix offering users to "buy" movies to own at a heavily discounted rate. Sure it's there, but no one's really doing it.

You are making shit up in your mind.

 

[Gambit2483]

http://[URL][URL]https://www.gamesindustry.biz/gamesindustrybiz-presents-the-year-in-numbers-2022

[/URL][/URL]

The gulf between physical and digital is world wide and the Xbox ecosystem is not the only place where that is happening.

And to your second point, the CHOICE is there for users. They can buy to keep the games permanently with a discount. There isn't any game that is *only* available on game pass.

Your anger is misguided here.

The Xbox ecosystem is accelerating that gulf in the console market, by far. I'm sure more than 60% (maybe even 70%) game sales are digital on Xbox

Right, The choice to own content is there just like the choice is there to buy or rent movies on Amazon Prime/YouTube....