Wait. Shit gets real in kpop gaf?
Nope. Just frosty.
Wait. Shit gets real in kpop gaf?
"A hug vs a kick in the nuts? You think hugs are better? Yeah, well... that's just, like... your opinion, man...."
you know some people pay women to kick them in the nuts right?
I fail to see how fetishes, the most literal and potent manifestation of irrational personal bias, have any relevance to the discussion of making fair evaluations of general quality. Flat contradiction of an example ≠ refutation of argument.you know some people pay women to kick them in the nuts right?
I fail to see how fetishes, the most literal and potent manifestation of irrational personal bias, have any relevance to the discussion of making fair evaluations of general quality. Flat contradiction of an example ≠ refutation of argument.
I'm not arguing with you dice, you don't have to justify your kara fetish to me.
Nope, I'm already doing it. I have written down opinions on each member and all the songs/concepts from the first album. Moving on to second album now.
Wait. Shit gets real in kpop gaf?
Thread is getting boring. Please don't contribute with more boredom.
Did I say there has to be only one way, or that there is an ultimate, objectively best way? No, I said that things can be evaluated by greater measures of understanding. That is why I pointed out that I respect Peru's tastes which are often different from mine. I think if your subjective evaluation takes more into account and is more fair and clear about the whats and the whys of putting one over the other, then that subjective evaluation is objectively better than one which does not. That's how it is with everything in the entire world. Otherwise, there would be no such thing as value. And with that said...
I disagree. There is a lot of taste involved, but as I said, subjectivity is limited by perspective. I think many people would notice their tastes changing if their perspective were expanded by listening to more types of music, studying the nature of music, trying it out themselves, etc. Then that change which happens in their tastes can easily be called development.
Seriously?"A hug vs a kick in the nuts? You think hugs are better? Yeah, well... that's just, like... your opinion, man...."
Claiming that subjectivity puts everything on the same level with nothing but purely arbitrary preference separating them is that stupid to me. Nobody has made any sort of case to argue how it could be otherwise, they are just asserting that with pop groups that is the case. I can only assume that this is because they don't care enough to actually substantiate their claims, even though they often want to pass judgement on me according to those claims. If I ever seem a bit too strongly indignant because of this, I think you should be able to guess why. Beyond the annoyance to me, they contradict such a mindset every day by presenting their stances on anything in life.
You see? It's not so hard after all. This is something I could begin to respect. If people were open about admiration for these sorts of things bleeding over to create unfair favoritism when it comes to their musical endeavors, I'd gladly accept that. That's like the sort of things I say when it comes to Kara.
Sorry if this bores people,
Nope. Just frosty.
Brah I know you live in Queensland. Our state is being economically and socially dismantled. All distractions are good.
I disagree with that too
To tell the truth, I miss Hwayoung. She was finally starting to look good and this new girl doesn't do anything for me. Is she supposed to be the rapper now? meh
It's funny that some people thought she would ruin the group they added her and she did, just not in the way that was expected. KKS is the Korean Shyamalan.
EDIT: To the dude that made the holocaust joke. Do you papi, don't let these haters get you down. Post how you want, hwaiting!!
I disagree. There is a lot of taste involved, but as I said, subjectivity is limited by perspective. I think many people would notice their tastes changing if their perspective were expanded by listening to more types of music, studying the nature of music, trying it out themselves, etc. Then that change which happens in their tastes can easily be called development.
It's interesting, because while Peru is one of the people I seem to most often have disagreements with, I also end up respecting his views more because he does demonstrate well developed reasons for liking and not liking what he does, even though he frequently says people should just enjoy music in simple heart and not overcomplicate the process.
What I don't understand and find it hard to respect is the stanning of SNSD. They have done some good things, and they are rather professional in performing, and I try to account for taste, but the blatant hyperbole surrounding everything they do (with the prevailing attitude that it's simply plain as day that they stand well above all other groups) is often a bit much. So I openly disagree, and then people tell me I'm insane or an irrational antifan who couldn't possibly be thinking clearly. Really? Do you really think SNSD is that good that no one could rationally feel as I do when reading such things?
Can you share any examples? I really don't understand this claim at all. In terms of my opinion of SNSD, I provide clear explanations as to why my dismissal can become quite pointed. In terms of Kara, I do enjoy them very much in a general sense rather than for specific things, but I think I pretty fairly evaluate their strengths and weaknesses when the discussion comes to that.
Cuts to health and community services before raising (unusually low) taxes ? And large-scale sackings predicated on a deliberately alarmist, mendaciously exaggerated, and kindergarten-level understanding of state debt ?
Naw man. The public service needed drawing back, but this is just a conservative ideological fantasy/experiment with a nonsensical economic pretext. The idea that this manner and scale of retraction will recover the state's AAA credit rating -- and even the notion that the AAA rating really matters as a condition or indicator -- is bogus.
Campbell = KKS.
[Most people I know who are involved were either definitely safe or bailed out months back. Still, bad times for a bunch of people.]
I was initially sucked into kpop because I love beautifulgirls.asian
You're doing it right.
Sooyoung said:
of fucking course we're in debt. It's not intrinsically a dangerous or deleterious condition for a state government to be in.
But this is a tangent.
I will start watching this today. Thank you.
Watch it bro, not just for Raina but for After School as a whole. They are barely in any variety shows as a group as it is and that show is top tier. Made me fall in love with them even more.
Alright, fine, fuck it. I'll just stop airing my opinions or listening to those of others because it's 100% personal and means absolutely nothing to address.
For some reason it seems to really bother people when I say SNSD is mediocre, but that's not because they think I'm making a real claim. They apparently know full well that opinions are meaningless statements of vanity. When they bitch at me for being so crazy as to not absolutely adore SNSD over all others, they don't actually think there is anything wrong with my opinion, because it's just a preference and there is no reason to have one preference or the other. It's just a personal happenstance.
In fact, because everyone understands this so well, they are clearly just dicking around because hey, it's the internet, and no words mean anything on the internet. Apparently I've just been out of the loop. This is a place where we speak and act like we believe things and hold disagreements, but in reality we all just like what we do for no reason at all except whatever feeling magically springs up out of nothing while we experience it. We challenge others, but if they actually want to have any sort of rational discourse we'll run back into the relativistic shelters we were busy tearing down just minutes prior.
Yep, because opinions and musical preference just come from nowhere for no reason (definitely having no relation to technical, creative, or expressive qualities) and can in no way be shared or truly understood by others, because they are not us. We don't actually give a shit about the experience of others, because it isn't ours. We just pretend like we do, and mostly when it's about SNSD, and especially when it's someone is saying they don't like them as much as other groups.
RIGHT.
GOT IT.
I also don't remember you ever taking issue with me thinking they're mediocre, so I don't see how that post was directed to you.I gave you a legit response
I totally missed this (hONG <3)
Shin Dong Yup and Hong Suk Chun chosen as MCs for Korea’s first transgender talk show
groundbreaking shit right there
they already tried with a Coming Out program for gays but i donnow how it ended
Meh, i'm having a convo with dice that is easier carried out in this format, as this is where it started. Sorry if this bores people, but here's a massive post.
Frst thing, to claim that you can be more objective on a subjective and personal opinion is largely false where theres no other bias coming into play. You can on the technical aspects, but not the subjective.
Secondly, thats exactly what you did claim in the second part of your paragraph.
What youre inferring is that just because people dont know better, they think Soshi are great. Its a fallacy. Firstly, no opinion on an entirely subjective (and music that you like to listen to is, entirely, subjective) is wrong. They can be wrong about the technical merits, but not the subjective.
Subjectivity towards a group also doesn't have to change just because your perspective has been broadened.
Yes, peoples tastes do change. Thats not being contested.
Yes, who you are as a person this second is limited by your life experiences (perspective).
But the studying of music doesn't necessarily increase any one persons enjoyment of music. You can increase your knowledge on the topic of music immensely, but still be drawn into the most inane pop songs purely because they're catchy.
I've spent many years learning piano both practical and theory, do i enjoy the music I hear more than the next person? No. Not in anyway. Do i plan on breaking these songs down? No. I personally find making an in depth study of things like this, destroys my enjoyment of them. It means i start worrying about the tiniest flaws and technical quibbles, where I could just simply listen to the music and enjoy it for what it is. If i don't like how it sounds? Move on to something i do enjoy.
You also infer that just because people don't want to write a dictation on the music they listen to, that they don't have the same or larger body of knowledge or are enjoying it as much. I generally don't really care to break down most music in the slightest. Years of theory have left me devoid of interest in doing so. I still know what i like and what i don't. And it doesnt make yours or my opinion on the music any more or less valid on whether we prefer one group over another.
Yes, youd be right if you were talking purely about the technical aspects of music. But pop music in particular is not all about the technical aspects.
Seriously?
Theres 3 parts to this paragraph.
1, Yes, on an entirely subjective topic on preference of music, every single opinion holds the same weight on whether they like something or dont.
2. Most people dont find that they have to write essays to enjoy their music.
3. The instance where people start declaring things like preference of one, over another, perspective comes into play, when that person hasnt bothered to listen to enough of the other group. It wouldnt mean their opinion is wrong for them, but that yours would hold more weight. But if they have, then yes, their opinion holds the same subjective weight, yours does.
Also, if youre taking peoples digs at you on the internet, about your taste in music personally, youre doing the internet wrong. I like some utterly terrible music, but the noise it makes, I enjoy. Hell, I like happy hard core when Im in the right mood. And thats some of the cheesiest shit around. And have quite rightly been mocked for it.
You say this like me, and others, haven't said this 100 times before. In multiples of ways. Soshi arent just a music act.
But youre leaving out a part of this whole conversation that Subjectivity isnt just based on one thing, on one aspect. Subjectivity is made up of your perspective, feelings, beliefs, and desires. Soshi do a great job at creating a group that people identify with both in their music, and really well outside of it. But its the same for just about all pop groups. You dont see any 200kg girls running around in any of these groups do you?
Its probably heightened more in kpop where these groups do tons of variety shows. And get slammed for the oddest trivial slights But the subjectivity of one opinion of a musical group isnt just necessarily limited to your perspective/feelings/beliefs/desires of that group as a musical group. Yes, similar to your Kara stanning.
Perspective plays a role when you want to make declaratives or comparisons. But theres also comes a point where increasing your perspective isnt going to matter as much. Ive listened to enough f(x) , maybe 80% of their work, [not all of their stuff, lord help me] to know, Ill enjoy soshis music more.
Alright, fine, fuck it. I'll just stop airing my opinions or listening to those of others because it's 100% personal and means absolutely nothing to address.
For some reason it seems to really bother people when I say SNSD is mediocre, but that's not because they think I'm making a real claim. They apparently know full well that opinions are meaningless statements of vanity. When they bitch at me for being so crazy as to not absolutely adore SNSD over all others, they don't actually think there is anything wrong with my opinion, because it's just a preference and there is no reason to have one preference or the other. It's just a personal happenstance.
In fact, because everyone understands this so well, they are clearly just dicking around because hey, it's the internet, and no words mean anything on the internet. Apparently I've just been out of the loop. This is a place where we speak and act like we believe things and hold disagreements, but in reality we all just like what we do for no reason at all except whatever feeling magically springs up out of nothing while we experience it. We challenge others, but if they actually want to have any sort of rational discourse we'll run back into the relativistic shelters we were busy tearing down just minutes prior.
Yep, because opinions and musical preference just come from nowhere for no reason (definitely having no relation to technical, creative, or expressive qualities) and can in no way be shared or truly understood by others, because they are not us. We don't actually give a shit about the experience of others, because it isn't ours. We just pretend like we do, and mostly when it's about SNSD, and especially when it's someone is saying they don't like them as much as other groups.
RIGHT.
GOT IT.