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[jman2050]

I can appreciate that but doesn't your friend feel exploited? Doesn't he feel weird being reminded that people with his condition are seen as fetish targets? Or that they can be added to a game in order to drum up hype that otherwise wouldn't be there if the characters were "normal"?

Eh, this is sort of like saying that a character who, say, lost their parents in a car accident when they were young and the story centers around him dealing with that is "exploitative." Either way you have a character who has an exceptional abnormal circumstance in their life that was beyond their control and which requires special attention to deal with. Drama is all about exploring situations that you might not deal with or even be familiar with.

For me, I feel like just trying to pretend that a disability doesn't exist is also quite damaging, but all in all it's a sensitive subject for all involved and some people will have reservations when these types of subjects are dealt with. Totally understandable, so I don't really think you're crazy for feeling this way. Nevertheless, it's not your place to force that opinion on others. If you don't like it, don't play it, make your position known if you feel you must, and then just let everyone else decide what they want to do. Nothing more is needed.

 

[LiK]

That's so much better! Even the seiyuu is hot!

man, that bird is so hot.

 

[Papercuts]

You say "so what" to my main point and then try to turn my argument into something it isn't. I feel exploited. Are you ever going to say something about that? How about you treat me like a human being with normal desires instead of basically saying I'm wrong for feeling offended?

I -- and other disabled people, at least the ones I've talked too -- just want to be treated like anyone else. We don't really want to feel special or different. Some people want to stand out. I feel like most disabled folks want to blend in more than anything.

Can you see how a game like this isn't exactly conducive towards that?

The game actually handles the stuff maturely, atleast based on the first act. It tackles the specific issue you're talking about, not treating them any different.

 

[Thoraxes]

oh well then it's ok



You say "so what" to my main point and then try to turn my argument into something it isn't. I feel exploited. Are you ever going to say something about that? How about you treat me like a human being with normal desires instead of basically saying I'm wrong for feeling offended?

I -- and other disabled people, at least the ones I've talked too -- just want to be treated like anyone else. We don't really want to feel special or different. Some people want to stand out. I feel like most disabled folks want to blend in more than anything.

Can you see how a game like this isn't exactly conducive towards that?

Actually, the game tackles that issue pretty good if you give it a chance, and that theme is wholly present throughout.

 

[GrizzNKev]

I can appreciate that but doesn't your friend feel exploited? Doesn't he feel weird being reminded that people with his condition are seen as fetish targets? Or that they can be added to a game in order to drum up hype that otherwise wouldn't be there if the characters were "normal"?

No, it's a game with an interesting story that he can relate to. It makes him more comfortable, not less. This time, the state and motivation of the main character doesn't have to be a fantasy to him.

 

[Cirdan]

Been playing it. Liking it so far. My prior experiences with VNs just mostly involve a lot of cooking scenes so I can't really judge if it's that great or not, but for an indie-ish VN project it seems nice.

 

[LiK]

You say "so what" to my main point and then try to turn my argument into something it isn't. I feel exploited. Are you ever going to say something about that? How about you treat me like a human being with normal desires instead of basically saying I'm wrong for feeling offended?

I -- and other disabled people, at least the ones I've talked too -- just want to be treated like anyone else. We don't really want to feel special or different. Some people want to stand out. I feel like most disabled folks want to blend in more than anything.

Can you see how a game like this isn't exactly conducive towards that?

can you please play the game instead of blindly attacking it to death? we got your point.

 

[Izayoi]

GIVE ME THE CHOCOLATE HISAO

 

[Brazil]

You say "so what" to my main point and then try to turn my argument into something it isn't. I feel exploited. Are you ever going to say something about that? How about you treat me like a human being with normal desires instead of basically saying I'm wrong for feeling offended?

I -- and other disabled people, at least the ones I've talked too -- just want to be treated like anyone else. We don't really want to feel special or different. Some people want to stand out. I feel like most disabled folks want to blend in more than anything.

Can you see how a game like this isn't exactly conducive towards that?

You don't seem like one of them.

Have you even tried the game? Or do you just want to start a crusade?

 

[hamchan]

There's two different kind of Eroge.

The first which I generally call Bishoujo games (Pretty Girl games) or Bishounen games (Pretty Boy games) are focused on the story and character developtment. Sexual content comes secondary and usually is very sparse. Most often when your characters have fallen in love and have consensual sex. This is after like 20+ hours of game play on one route.

The other is Nukige. These are the sex romp games. Generally very short compared to the former. Sexual content is the main theme here.

Katawa Shoujo is the former.

I believe we call it Rule 34.

That aside, it seems this is a VN (as opposed to Eroge), where it focuses on the story of the characters more than anything. The fact they included an option to forego any of the sexual content is kind of nice. Though, they could've probably left it out all together if they really wanted to (and maybe should have).

Nukige/Bishoujo is also another way of putting it like Troj points out.

The game actually handles the stuff maturely, atleast based on the first act. It tackles the specific issue you're talking about, not treating them any different.

Zane has already stated that he doesn't care how good the story is or how tastefully it's done though. :-/

At this point it's easier to just not argue about it anymore and to let him leave this thread.

 

[Orayn]

You don't seem like one of them.

Have you even tried the game? Or do you just want to start a crusade?

It's so much easier to crusade than to understand.

 

[PataHikari]

I can appreciate that but doesn't your friend feel exploited? Doesn't he feel weird being reminded that people with his condition are seen as fetish targets? Or that they can be added to a game in order to drum up hype that otherwise wouldn't be there if the characters were "normal"?

Except that the concept was never to "drum up hype" the concept for the project existed from very start.

Several years ago a doujin artist drew up some pictures, discibing some disabled girls. It was a mock up concept for a visual novel. Never meant to be made. A few years later it was colored and posted on 4chan.

Now, somehow this ended up attracting the attention of people on the site. Eventually, after five years of blood, sweat, tears, and drama, they finally made the game. Now there may be people just going in it for the fetishes (and will be dissapointed because it's not a fetish peice) but I can say with confidence that the creators of this had nothing but good intentions.

 

[fudgey_lumpkins]

The people playing the game do, though!



Yeah I'm missing out on soooo much, I'm sure.

It's not about you "missing out". It's about you knowing what it is you are complaining about. Based on the counter arguments of the people in this thread, it's starting to seem like you really need to at least give this thing a look. Right now you're just being Fox News.

 

[Zane]

Actually, the game tackles that issue pretty good if you give it a chance, and that theme is wholly present throughout.

That sounds great! Only I feel maybe the game's objective and its audience, and actually its mere existence, are completely contradictory. I feel that despite the game's best intentions, it's only going to serve as fuel for the same sort of people I'm speaking out against. And again, the simple fact that people are becoming interested in this game simply because they see cute disabled girls significantly bothers me. It's less about the game's content and more the message that its existence sends.

 

[Dresden]

That sounds great! Only I feel maybe the game's objective and its audience, and actually its mere existence, are completely contradictory. I feel that despite the game's best intentions, it's only going to serve as fuel for the same sort of people I'm speaking out against. And again, the simple fact that people are becoming interested in this game simply because they see cute disabled girls significantly bothers me. It's less about the game's content and more the message that its existence sends.

There are people aroused by the sight of tall buildings, I wonder how the architects feel.

 

[Instro]

Pink hair girl will be my waifu.

 

[Basileus777]

That sounds great! Only I feel maybe the game's objective and its audience, and actually its mere existence, are completely contradictory. I feel that despite the game's best intentions, it's only going to serve as fuel for the same sort of people I'm speaking out against. And again, the simple fact that people are becoming interested in this game simply because they see cute disabled girls significantly bothers me. It's less about the game's content and more the message that its existence sends.

It's an obscure eroge that will only be played by a small group of people. It doesn't have the reach to send a message or fuel anything. Acting like this VN is going to have some sort of effect on society is absurd.

 

[StayDead]

mai waifu is shizune and I got her best ending on one try. I'm basically finished with the game now, quite a nice story for her. ^^

 

[dreamfall]

Oh Hanako! So pretty, so upset to startle her all the time! Really enjoying it thus far. The dialogue is really well paced and the music is beyond wonderful!

 

[Jintor]

That sounds great! Only I feel maybe the game's objective and its audience, and actually its mere existence, are completely contradictory. I feel that despite the game's best intentions, it's only going to serve as fuel for the same sort of people I'm speaking out against. And again, the simple fact that people are becoming interested in this game simply because they see cute disabled girls significantly bothers me. It's less about the game's content and more the message that its existence sends.

You're offended because I want to know more about fictional disabled people?

 

[mollipen]

I -- and other disabled people, at least the ones I've talked too -- just want to be treated like anyone else.

I am baffled that you can't see that you're asking for the exact opposite of that. You don't want to be treated like everybody else, because you're saying that for some reason you should be exempt from every being fetishized—unlike every other group out there who at times is fetishized themselves.

 

[Thoraxes]

It's at times like these that I wish I could define moe into words properly.

The music in this game is superb.

Dat Nurse's Theme and the sax. So good.

 

[PataHikari]

oh well then it's ok



You say "so what" to my main point and then try to turn my argument into something it isn't. I feel exploited. Are you ever going to say something about that? How about you treat me like a human being with normal desires instead of basically saying I'm wrong for feeling offended?

I -- and other disabled people, at least the ones I've talked too -- just want to be treated like anyone else. We don't really want to feel special or different. Some people want to stand out. I feel like most disabled folks want to blend in more than anything.

Can you see how a game like this isn't exactly conducive towards that?

I meant "so what" as in "so what are you trying to say" because as far as I can tell your offended simply by people writing stories about disabled people. I wasn't trying to dismiss your.argument, I simply disagree with it.

Pink hair girl will be my waifu.

She has no route. So fall into dispair.

 

[GrizzNKev]

I am baffled that you can't see that you're asking for the exact opposite of that. You don't want to be treated like everybody else, because you're saying that for some reason you should be exempt from every being fetishized—unlike every other group out there who at times is fetishized themselves.

Glad someone finally said it. Like I said, my friend with the heart condition absolutely loves KS, and if you really didn't want to be treated differently then you wouldn't make your argument that you're offended because the characters in this game are different from those in any other game.

 

[Zane]

I am baffled that you can't see that you're asking for the exact opposite of that. You don't want to be treated like everybody else, because you're saying that for some reason you should be exempt from every being fetishized—unlike every other group out there who at times is fetishized themselves.

Okay. No one should be fetishized for their circumstances, then.

 

[Jintor]

All I'm really asking is that you play the game before you launch into your tirade.

 

[Electivirus]

Real men choose Hanako's route.

 

[GrizzNKev]

Okay. No one should be fetishized for their circumstances, then.

Thank you for being honest. Sadly, that's not going to change, so the discussion on your campaign against it likely isn't going to go anywhere in your favor.

 

[wonzo]

I've only just started Hanako's route. The redone music and sound effects helped make it feel fresh even though I had already played the demo. So far so good.

GIVE ME THE CHOCOLATE HISAO

That sounds great! Only I feel maybe the game's objective and its audience, and actually its mere existence, are completely contradictory. I feel that despite the game's best intentions, it's only going to serve as fuel for the same sort of people I'm speaking out against.

People manage to fetishise all kinds of shit. From particular body parts to inanimate objects. Using the fact that someone may get off to something and holding it against a piece of fiction that you haven't even bothered to read/play/whatever is absurd.

 

[Femmeworth]

If I can't play as a girl, then no sale. If I'm going to play a game about waifu obtaining, then I at least want lesbian waifus.

 

[Jintor]

If I can't play as a girl, then no sale.

I definitely want to see more VN's with female protagonists.

(Also it's not for sale, so just download it, you silly goose)

 

[Brazil]

My character doesn't know what Risk is?!

I can't do this anymore.

 

[jman2050]

My character doesn't know what Risk is?!

I can't do this anymore.

Risk is a bullshit game. Strategy wins my ass!

 

[The Awesomest]

I definitely want to see more VN's with female protagonists.

Is it ok if they are dating pigeons?

 

[Zane]

Thank you for being honest.

I mean, does that change my argument at all? No one wants to be fetishized. Like, duh.

I meant "so what" as in "so what are you trying to say" because as far as I can tell your offended simply by people writing stories about disabled people.

I'm offended by the people who want to play the game for the cute disabled girls and that there is yet another thing for these people to channel their fetishes towards.

yeah i'm backpedaling. deal wif it.

 

[CSX]

Will play once walkthrough appears. This has gotten me interested.

Googled around some history of the game. Apparently, the artist who drew the initial sketches of the girls many years ago knows of this game and he worked on Valkyria Chronicles :O

 

[Thoraxes]

Risk is a bullshit game. Strategy wins my ass!

Defense was overrated

 

[GrizzNKev]

I mean, does that change my argument at all? No one wants to be fetishized. Like, duh.

I'm offended by the people who want to play the game for the cute disabled girls and that there is yet another thing for these people to channel their fetishes towards.

yeah i'm backpedaling. deal wif it.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't mind being fetishized. I have a specific trait that some people find sexually appealing to an extreme level? YES!

 

[PataHikari]

I'm offended by the people who want to play the game for the cute disabled girls and that there is yet another thing for these people to channel their fetishes towards.

yeah i'm backpedaling. deal wif it.

Then be mad at those people. But this game really isn't a fetish peice. And I'm actually kind of sad that they're scaring you off a game that you might be able to relate with

Edit: I'm glad you clarified your opinion and I respect it.

 

[flowsnake]

It's ok to be offended.

 

[Brazil]

Risk is a bullshit game. Strategy wins my ass!

Of course it's about strategy! I think I win 2 out of each 3 matches I play with my friends... And I'm not that lucky.

Either way, it's the best board game ever.

... Now, back to the VN. Can all of them be my waifus?

 

[Hot Coldman]

This Hicchan guy is a boring fuckwit.

 

[Edgeward]

Eh, I wasn't gonna try this but seeing some being offended by it makes me want to try it now.

 

[shintoki]

So... I like died 3 times in a row. Is this like Dark Souls?

 

[Jintor]

Is it ok if they are dating pigeons?

It's always okay if they're dating pigeons!

 

[PataHikari]

... Now, back to the VN. Can all of them be my waifus?

No.

So... I like died 3 times in a row. Is this like Dark Souls?

H-how... what?

 

[Hot Coldman]

So... I like died 3 times in a row. Is this like Dark Souls?

YOU DEFEATED

 

[br0ken_shad0w]

Eroges aren't really my thing, but I'll definitely play one from writers who know their audience better. I've kept up with the development for a while and I'm so amazed that it actually got released.

Spoiler

unlike a certain Half-Life 2 mod

And yeah it is fetishizing because it's an eroge. Doesn't mean the developers are tasteless. IIRC, they researched the disabilities extensively and it's accurately portrayed. (unlike Hollywood and other media)

 

[Femmeworth]

I definitely want to see more VN's with female protagonists.

(Also it's not for sale, so just download it, you silly goose)

I'm very well aware of that.

 

[Fou-Lu]

Either way, it's the best board game ever.

You really need to play some real board games.