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[runningjoke]

Haha. Yeah I would never get mad at a movie for doing anything other than what equates to the best entertainment and drama, but it is fun kind of knowing what makes it more or less believable. Even worthless things like the Destiny loading screens. Why would the ships constantly be burning their engines during the intermediate time between planets? They barrel roll down into the atmosphere like it is Top Gun. Again, doesn't change the game, but funny to see how silly it all is when you start to understand orbital mechanics via KSP

Are they some kind of warp engines? Those would need to be on for the duration of the trip. If they do add velocity, maybe you want to get to your destination very quickly and thus fire the engines constantly, you'd have to start retro burning half way through.

 

[Crispy75]

Are they some kind of warp engines? Those would need to be on for the duration of the trip. If they do add velocity, maybe you want to get to your destination very quickly and thus fire the engines constantly, you'd have to start retro burning half way through.

The ships in The Expanse do this, which I really like. It gives them a credible reason for "gravity" on board, and a nice dramatic device - if you want to change your course, you have to go through a weightless period while the ship is reoriented for a new burn.

 

[gutterboy44]

That is the problem with the idea of warp speed engines. If you were able to accelerate a craft to that speed, you would need a tremendous amount of energy to decelerate it too. You can't just go near light speed and take your foot off the gas when you get near your destination. To capture the orbit of a planet, you'd have to burn near light speed retrograde as well. Objects just don't magically decelerate in space because the engines turned off.

If ships were going to be dogfighting and jumping from orbit to orbit with high maneuverability, you'd more likely see equal sized engines at the front and the back of the ship as to prevent the need to rotate your ship every time you want to burn prograde or retrograde. Humans are used to the way things work on earth so when we think fast, we think big engine at the back. But a bunch of engines pointed in one direction is not the best design if you wanted to make actual space fighters. I think Scott Manley has a youtube video where he goes into this. That real life orbital mechanics make for shitty dogfight action or very weird looking ships to allow for the maneuverability we associate with dogfights. I feel like the most common cop out is making the retro thrusters very small in comparison to the main engines yet somehow they generate the same thrust, if not more because they only need to fire briefly. If the retro thrusters are that damn efficient, why wouldn't the main engine be the same as tiny supper efficient retro ones!

Edit: Just to clarify, none of these things actually bother me in other games and movies. They are just fun considerations after learning the basics of these things in KSP. KSP drastically changed my understanding of space travel and orbital mechanics. I now have such a huge appreciation of our space endeavors, past, present and future. Apollo 13 is an entirely different movie post KSP.

 

[Mengy]

Yep. In reality, actual space battleships would look more like large floating bases than the Battlestar Galactica. They would have large engines both front and back and would have no need for aerodynamic design of any kind. You would want weapons that could fire at any arc and at very long ranges because turning around or changing direction is both time consuming and costly. Space battles would look more like two starbases just "slowly" going around each other duking it out until one is overwhelmed.

If KSP ever adds weapons we'll be able to model this.

 

[QFNS]

Yep. In reality, actual space battleships would look more like large floating bases than the Battlestar Galactica. They would have large engines both front and back and would have no need for aerodynamic design of any kind. You would want weapons that could fire at any arc and at very long ranges because turning around or changing direction is both time consuming and costly. Space battles would look more like two starbases just "slowly" going around each other duking it out until one is overwhelmed.

If KSP ever adds weapons we'll be able to model this.

I forget the article I was reading, but the author made a point of saying that space battleships are pointless because if you want to make war across interstellar distances it is easier to commit genocide and wipe out an entire alien species than to attempt to fight them "conventionally".

The thought was that you simply take a giant rectangular block of whatever material you need, point it at their home planet, accelerate it to some fraction of lightspeed then let it go. It decelerates when it obliterates the target planet. So warfare becomes a case of identifying threats and preemptively wiping them out of existence before they can do the same to you. It leads to a pretty bleak conclusion that "wars" aren't really a war at all. One day your entire planet is destroyed and there was no warning at all. Pretty grim stuff when you start thinking about it.

 

[runningjoke]

Maaaan how the hell did the Beast crew manage to reenter that. Well at least now they know how hard it is to rescue something from orbit, next time they are going to try to get back to Mun.

 

[danthefan]

The tutorials might be a little out of date, the vehicle might not have a heat shield. If you click the fuel resources is there an item called Ablator material?

Reentry without a heatshield is still possible but you need to aim for 45-50km perigee

Pe of between 45 and 50km did it just fine, got back into the atmosphere, thanks bud.

I didn't deploy the chute in time so my guy died in a horrible fireball but hey-ho, will give it another try.

 

[gutterboy44]

Dear god, BEAST straight out of the gates again with insane ship design choices. Using the biggest rocket parts available for a simple Kerbin orbit rescue mission... wow. Hahah, but I guess that is what keeps it entertaining. You can build crafts to rescue up to 3+ Kerbals with the parts available in the first two tiers of career mode. You don't even need RCS or crew cabins. Just stack a bunch of the first capsules on top of each other and only send up one pilot and keep the rest empty.

 

[Brashnir]

Dear god, BEAST straight out of the gates again with insane ship design choices. Using the biggest rocket parts available for a simple Kerbin orbit rescue mission... wow. Hahah, but I guess that is what keeps it entertaining. You can build crafts to rescue up to 3+ Kerbals with the parts available in the first two tiers of career mode. You don't even need RCS or crew cabins. Just stack a bunch of the first capsules on top of each other and only send up one pilot and keep the rest empty.

Why send up a capsule chain, when you can make a Space Bus?

 

[gutterboy44]

It cracks me up how often the mix and match the sizes of engines with fuel tanks. Small tanks.. put on the large engines. Upgrade to large tanks with the large engines.. nope, take off the large engines and put extra-large engines on the large tanks.

 

[DBT85]

Bugger me sideways.

Just spent an hour or so getting reacquainted.

It's certainly different than 0.90! Seemed a little more difficult than I remember just getting to orbit but I got there.

Now that I've got some patched conics, its time to boldly go where no Kerbal has gone before (In this save).

 

[gutterboy44]

Lol, BEAST going for the perpendicular orbital plane rendezvous. Bold move.

Bugger me sideways.

Just spent an hour or so getting reacquainted.

It's certainly different than 0.90! Seemed a little more difficult than I remember just getting to orbit but I got there.

Now that I've got some patched conics, its time to boldly go where no Kerbal has gone before (In this save).

Yep, the changes in aero and re-entry heat made launches and re-entries much more exciting and challenging.

 

[Brashnir]

It cracks me up how often the mix and match the sizes of engines with fuel tanks. Small tanks.. put on the large engines. Upgrade to large tanks with the large engines.. nope, take off the large engines and put extra-large engines on the large tanks.

I was half-expecting him to put 6 of the Mammoth 4x engines on the liftoff stage at some point.

 

[danthefan]

Yeeeees. Finally, left the Mun and landed safely back on Kerbin. Feels good man.

I am absolutely hooked. Can't wait to watch those Giant Bomb videos.

 

[gutterboy44]

Yeeeees. Finally, left the Mun and landed safely back on Kerbin. Feels good man.

I am absolutely hooked. Can't wait to watch those Giant Bomb videos.

Awesome, congrats. Your first Mun landing and the proceeding return to Kerbin is one of the most satisfying moments in gaming.


RE: the BEAST KSP videos
I feel like a lot of the commentors on the video are severely overestimating the ability to just brute force your way though trial and error with rendezvous. Everyone tends to repeat the same thing, "look how much they have achieved without having to look at tutorials!" but that is not correct. Vinny has been playing KSP on and off since very early access and he has definitely consulted tips and/or tutorials. He had made it to the Mun before the first ever BEAST episode. He had used orbital maneuvers before and understood orbit. He also seems to have a good understanding of how a lot of launch profiles were in pre .90 KSP. Unfortunately, he hasn't checked back in to now see since the addition of aero and drag, that going as fast as possible in the lower atmosphere is not the best idea.

If BEAST was truly going into KSP blind, with zero mods, comment tips, and this all being the three of them first ever experience with the game...we would just be getting into Munar orbits by ep 5..if that. The refrain is, their trial and error makes for entertaining videos. I agree with this, but there is a very distinct line where it goes from fun watching someone mess up an otherwise successful attempt, and messing up over and over not without the mildest inkling of why things are going wrong and what to do to correct them. Rendezvous are that wall. They barely understand the navball, maneuver nodes and orbital plane transitions, all of which you have to do correctly to get close enough to rescue someone. Even if they watched tutorial videos for a day straight, there is still plenty of shit you can mess up in KSP to where they will have hilarious failures. Their ship design is obviously half the fun in the vids and that will always be the cause of major problems, no matter how experienced you are in KSP. Short of loading up someone else's craft file, I don't see how any fun is going to be lost with them knowing the basics mechanics behind a rendezvous. Moreover, once they learn some of this basic stuff, it opens them up to far more ambitious goals!

I hope Vinny does the in game tutorial. It shows you the basics of what you need to do, but by no means makes their BEAST goals a cake walk.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Had a very good Christmas battering my way through the tutorials (they seem slightly misleading at times), now looking to try get some of the mods that the B.E.A.S.T. team have going on.

 

[Mr Swine]

Any word on 1.1 update? It's been a bit long since the 1.0.5 update.

 

[Megasoum]

I haven't touched the game in a very long time and I'm tempted to go back but I remember the career really bumming me out.

I love to have contracts, objectives and progression but I always hated the way the science spam is working. I don't want to have to do reports and sampling every 30 seconds.

 

[r1chard]

Any word on 1.1 update? It's been a bit long since the 1.0.5 update.

You can keep track of their progress pretty well through their Devnote Tuesdays, available on their website and even http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/ which is RSS-reader compatible.

 

[komplanen]

Any word on 1.1 update? It's been a bit long since the 1.0.5 update.

You can keep track of their progress pretty well through their Devnote Tuesdays, available on their website and even http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/ which is RSS-reader compatible.

Short version: It's "a few weeks" away, at least.

 

[DBT85]

I haven't touched the game in a very long time and I'm tempted to go back but I remember the career really bumming me out.

I love to have contracts, objectives and progression but I always hated the way the science spam is working. I don't want to have to do reports and sampling every 30 seconds.

Id suggest looking at some of the contract packs available, theres like 15 now with lots of different things to do.

Managed to squeeze a couple of hours in yesterday myself for the first time in months so trying to remember and relearn since all the new aero changes are in.

Got some early science done and so sent a ship to get near Mun and come back. Was 5ms short of enough fuel to return so turned a cheat on (Hey I'm learning again!).

When I got back I got the stock Scansat mission pop up and my contract pack one, the stock one is a bit lame

Didn't have enough science for a solar panel yet so did another launch to get a big goo pod up to high above Kerbin and also upgraded the astronaut complex to allow EVAs which gets plenty of fast science and means I don't have to bring so much back. as I can retrieve tests.

After some fiddling I got a probe ship into a 494km orbit at the required 79.4 degree inclination, just got to let it cook now.

Some things I'm still getting to grips with is launches are still occasionally just going batcrap crazy and re-entry takes some actual finesse compared to what I'm used to. I remember being able to pull drogue chutes at high altitudes, it seems every mission so far I'm not opening till like 5000m and then they don;t fully deploy till 1000m and I'm sitting here squinting at the screen expecting the final crash as it fails to slow in time.


Very much forward to seeing the 1.1 update and hopefully all the joy that unity 5 can bring.

 

[gutterboy44]

My single biggest gripe about career mode would be the way science is handled. Doing EVA spam isn't fun, and the way the over compensated the balance of the game for long time KSP players makes it a pretty slow crawl through the tech tree without doing a bunch of EVA stuff around Kerbin, Mun and Minmus. But then again, once you start throwing things out to Duna and beyond, the science pours in. Maybe I play too conservatively early on in career. But yeah, contracts and science could improve in future releases for sure. Can't wait to see what Unity 5 can bring to KSP too.

 

[jotun?]

People on the KSP forums were pretty vocal in complaining about contracts giving too much science before, and it seems like a lot of people want NO science from contracts. I guess they think it makes things too "easy". I disagree, because I find the actual experiment collection methods to be really tedious once you try to optimize them to collect from every damn biome

Personally I think that contracts need more variety in their rewards. Things like tourism and commercial satellites should give lots of money. Contracts for science satellites or bases should give enough money to cover the cost, but otherwise mostly science. Rescue missions should give a lot of reputation, and the primary exploration goals should give mostly a combination of science and rep. I'd be happy if I could get about half my science from contracts and half from experiments.

 

[gutterboy44]

Yeah, that is the double edge sword of long early access. You get a very dedicated fan base who is familiar with every minute detail of your game, and when they become your primary source of feedback before release, you get balances that suit them more than the people you want to add to your player base. I know how to do ridic science runs even in the current version, but I don't find that min/max style of play very rewarding. I too would like to be able to get more science from contracts. I would also like to see the administration building be more useful. Right now, the only use I can see for it is when I don't want any science or rep and just want to min/max funds. I think they could have been more clever with the "perks" you buy at the admin building. Just straight resource swapping is pretty dull.

 

[danthefan]

I'm trying to do the Docking tutorial here, which requires a transfer orbit. I don't understand at all what I'm supposed to do and it's getting frustrating. I have the obits on the same inclination now, and it's telling me to drag the prograde until two of the same coloured symbols are within 5km of each other. I assume this means get (for example) two of the orange symbols within 5km of each other, but all I'm able to manage is have them like 2000km away, no matter what I do. Any tips here please?

 

[gutterboy44]

I'm trying to do the Docking tutorial here, which requires a transfer orbit. I don't understand at all what I'm supposed to do and it's getting frustrating. I have the obits on the same inclination now, and it's telling me to drag the prograde until two of the same coloured symbols are within 5km of each other. I assume this means get (for example) two of the orange symbols within 5km of each other, but all I'm able to manage is have them like 2000km away, no matter what I do. Any tips here please?

Try making smaller adjustments on the nodes by mousing over the node you want to manipulate and wheeling your mouse wheel slowly. You can also tweak the other nodes, like the normal anti-normal if your ascending and descending aren't exactly 0.0. Also move where you are placing your maneuver node. If you are placing the maneuver node at 12 o'clock on the orbit, and the encounter is 6 o'clock, ,every little adjustment will have a large result on the encounter. If you make a second adjustment with a maneuver node closer to your target, it will allow for finer tuning, but a little more delta V. In this case the extra delta V should be negligible.

 

[danthefan]

Try making smaller adjustments on the nodes by mousing over the node you want to manipulate and wheeling your mouse wheel slowly. You can also tweak the other nodes, like the normal anti-normal if your ascending and descending aren't exactly 0.0. Also move where you are placing your maneuver node. If you are placing the maneuver node at 12 o'clock on the orbit, and the encounter is 6 o'clock, ,every little adjustment will have a large result on the encounter. If you make a second adjustment with a maneuver node closer to your target, it will allow for finer tuning, but a little more delta V. In this case the extra delta V should be negligible.

Cheers. My ascending and descending are both 0.0, and I've tried bringing the node the entire way around the orbit. I might restart and try again because I don't know what I'm doing.

 

[gutterboy44]

Cheers. My ascending and descending are both 0.0, and I've tried bringing the node the entire way around the orbit. I might restart and try again because I don't know what I'm doing.

Forgot to mention also play with the radial anti radial adjustments (light blue nodes) You should be able to get your encounter down to a few kilometers. Take a screen shot of your orbits and encounter next time. It will help figure out the issue.

 

[Goldfishking]

Started playing this game again. Playing a Science mode and I've done experiments orbiting the planet and now i can't seem to get more science any other way. Is the next step the mun or is there another way to get science im missing. Here's what i've tried.

- Kerbin tested earth soil
- Science vessel in atmosphere and orbiting kerbal
- goo in atmos and orbit
- crew report in atmos and orbit
- temperature test

 

[danthefan]

Forgot to mention also play with the radial anti radial adjustments (light blue nodes) You should be able to get your encounter down to a few kilometers. Take a screen shot of your orbits and encounter next time. It will help figure out the issue.

Oh dear, actually got it to 2km difference but then overshot when I burned my engines. Will try again! Thanks for the help.

 

[gutterboy44]

Started playing this game again. Playing a Science mode and I've done experiments orbiting the planet and now i can't seem to get more science any other way. Is the next step the mun or is there another way to get science im missing. Here's what i've tried.

- Kerbin tested earth soil
- Science vessel in atmosphere and orbiting kerbal
- goo in atmos and orbit
- crew report in atmos and orbit
- temperature test

You can see what science can be extracted from biomes by going to your science tech tree, and then clicking the science archive tab at the top. This will show you all the combinations of science goo, evas, surface samples, etc possible for each biome. The Mun and Minums are great places to grab a bunch of easy science from orbit using EVA reports.

 

[Goldfishking]

You can see what science can be extracted from biomes by going to your science tech tree, and then clicking the science archive tab at the top. This will show you all the combinations of science good, evas, surface samples, etc possible for each biome. The Mun and Minums are great places to grab a bunch of easy science from orbit using EVA reports.

Biomes, like on kerbin? Man, got alot to learn. Thanks alot.

 

[Dipper145]

Started playing this game again. Playing a Science mode and I've done experiments orbiting the planet and now i can't seem to get more science any other way. Is the next step the mun or is there another way to get science im missing. Here's what i've tried.

- Kerbin tested earth soil
- Science vessel in atmosphere and orbiting kerbal
- goo in atmos and orbit
- crew report in atmos and orbit
- temperature test

An easy way to get a bunch of science at the beginning is to make a vehicle that you can roam aruond the surface of the space base on kerbin and take logs of everything at each building / area. There are a bunch of them, and some have multiple biome areas per building area.

Other than that, tech to more science stuff, get EVAs and take samples everywhere. You can go into a part of the game that displays how many discovered science options vs available ones you have done so far on each planet, which can give you some help towards gathering more science (ie you have myster goo in low atmosphere, but dont have an eva or temperature reading there, for example)

 

[Mr Swine]

You can keep track of their progress pretty well through their Devnote Tuesdays, available on their website and even http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/ which is RSS-reader compatible.

Short version: It's "a few weeks" away, at least.

Thanks! I guess a few months then

 

[ThreePiMatt]

Started playing this game again. Playing a Science mode and I've done experiments orbiting the planet and now i can't seem to get more science any other way. Is the next step the mun or is there another way to get science im missing. Here's what i've tried.

- Kerbin tested earth soil
- Science vessel in atmosphere and orbiting kerbal
- goo in atmos and orbit
- crew report in atmos and orbit
- temperature test

There are biomes, different regions on Kerbin (and other planets) that act as distinct scientific areas. So a temperature test in a two different biomes will yield their own science. But different planets basically have multipliers on science, so eventually to keep up with the tech tree you're gonna have to go to the Mun, Minimus, etc.

 

[jotun?]

Started playing this game again. Playing a Science mode and I've done experiments orbiting the planet and now i can't seem to get more science any other way. Is the next step the mun or is there another way to get science im missing. Here's what i've tried.

- Kerbin tested earth soil
- Science vessel in atmosphere and orbiting kerbal
- goo in atmos and orbit
- crew report in atmos and orbit
- temperature test

Next step would probably be a Mun flyby

To see which experiments can be performed where, refer to:
http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science#Activities and
http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science#Celestial_body_multipliers

For example on a Mun flyby, you can get a crew report in space while more than 60km above the surface, and then another one while below 60km. Same goes for EVA reports, except that while under 60km you can actually get one for each biome as you fly over it. Materials bay and the goo can each also be used in both high and low space.

Actually before going to the Mun, you can make sure to do all of those experiments in a high orbit above Kerbin (above 250km) if you feel like you need more tech before a Mun flyby.

To do an experiment multiple times, you'll need to store the data in your capsule. Crew reports automatically get stored there, so no need to worry about those. For each EVA report or surface sample you get, you'll need to store it before taking another one. Data automatically gets stored when you enter the capsule, and you can also right-click the capsule door while on EVA to put them in there. To take data out of an instrument like the goo or materials bay, right click them while on EVA. Some experiments like the thermometer or gravity detector can be freely used repeatedly. The goo and materials bay though require a Scientist kerbal to clean and reset them after removing the data before they can be used again.

 

[DBT85]

Oh dear, actually got it to 2km difference but then overshot when I burned my engines. Will try again! Thanks for the help.

Good luck!

Annoyingly the built in tutorials are bloody awful, something they'll have to fix for the console version.

Docking is best learnt in a tiny probe with balanced rcs and a docking alignment mod.




Changing the subject, I've found out how to disable the built in SCANSat missions so I can update my mission pack. Woop.

 

[danthefan]

Alright, giving up on this docking tutorial. Thought I had the orbits lined up, the markers told me I was inside 5km, the prompts told me I was doing fine and to burn retrograde when I got within 60km, never got within 3000km, not arsed anymore. Moving on.

 

[gutterboy44]

Alright, giving up on this docking tutorial. Thought I had the orbits lined up, the markers told me I was inside 5km, the prompts told me I was doing fine and to burn retrograde when I got within 60km, never got within 3000km, not arsed anymore. Moving on.

Just watch a youtube video on how to dock.

 

[DBT85]

Just watching can help, but as I said, the current tutorial is garbage. I've no idea if anyone has made better ones.

It's sooooo satisfying once you dock the first time and for me at least something in my head clicked and now it's relatively easy, though it has been some time since I tried!

 

[Megasoum]

Finally decided to re-install the game to play around in sandbox mode since I don't like the science spam career mode.

It still pisses me off that they won't use Steam Workshops for the mods.

 

[Brashnir]

Just watch a youtube video on how to dock.

make sure you turn on safe search.

 

[Megasoum]

Just completed the docking tutorial.


That feeling when you finally dock...

 

[gutterboy44]

make sure you turn on safe search.

Lol

Just completed the docking tutorial.


That feeling when you finally dock...

Good on ya. Now go build a space station!

 

[DBT85]

Finally decided to re-install the game to play around in sandbox mode since I don't like the science spam career mode.

It still pisses me off that they won't use Steam Workshops for the mods.

Just use CKAN. like 99% of mods are in it now.

 

[danthefan]

Just completed the docking tutorial.


That feeling when you finally dock...

I just did this right now, this moment. Unreal, I am so damn pleased with myself, after so many tries to finally get it.

I reloaded and auto-save and the tutorial prompts start from the start every time you reload, is there anything to do after you dock or is that it?


I'm going to do it again anyway later just to make sure I have it and is wasn't a fluke.

 

[Jintor]

lol even in flight basics 101 i got to space, aimed for orbit, then got stuck spinning forever and crashed into the ground. Took me three times to get it right

 

[gutterboy44]

Project B.E.A.S.T. Part 6 is up!

 

[runningjoke]

Vinny flips the rocket over in atmosphere, and his solution is to add more control surfaces :lol

With the Engineer and dV map he's looking at waaaay more info than he should focus on. This stuff should come after you park it in orbit reliably. You can see he's learning and picking up some tips here and there, but he's trying to learn too much all at once and then applying the wrong lessons learned

He's still doing asparagus staging wrong, the last peel has a fuel line to the middle but he doesn't fire the main engine, so the fuel can't flow into the center tank. He's spent way too much time on that whole system. There's probably a good reason why no real rockets have it.

 

[gutterboy44]

LOL. They finally, FINALLY!!!! see the benefit of the Terrier engine and then go and completely shit up the ISP by strapping two Thuds on to the side. Never change BEAST hahah.