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Kill la Kill |OT|
- Thread starter Crash Station
- Start date
Duebrithil
Member
It does feel a little bit empty without an episode, but at least we have this thread .D
Semi-related, there is still one production report left with the keyframes from the finale, right?
Semi-related, there is still one production report left with the keyframes from the finale, right?
And I checked that Crunchyroll will get that. Great, I'd been wanting to check that out.At least Jojo's starts tomorrow
I feel like I should get caught up beforehand but I might just check it out anyways. Apparently I'd be most familiar with this season because that's what the Capcom game was based on, but I don't know shit about JoJo's to begin with.
And I guess the newsletter with frames from the last episode is out, and includes this blurb:
wat
Satsuki is rockin' out to some hard core metal.
The news story they posted said Stardust Crusaders AND Season One.I feel like I should get caught up beforehand but I might just check it out anyways. Apparently I'd be most familiar with this season because that's what the Capcom game was based on, but I don't know shit about JoJo's to begin with.
I do need to look into it more admittedly, I'm mostly familiar with the fact that 1. Capcom made a game based on it and I knew about that before the show/manga, 2. that Dio car gif, and 3. that this current anime's supposed to be great.
But yeah, if there's nothing earlier to catch up on that matters I'll want to watch season one when that hits.
Jex
Member
More ramblings from me:
Spoilers for Kill la KIll - The whole show!
I warned you!
SPOILERZZZ
So, as I've mentioned before, I've been flicking back and forth through the series and noting points where it appears that, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, the story underwent a re-write from the original vision. I only originally picked up on this because people mentioned that there were a few dangling plot points left over from the Nudist Beach storyline but, upon closer inspection, these seemed to point towards a more fundamental change.
I've recently come upon some more evidence of this. Take the first scene from the third episode, where Satsuki is reflecting to herself (this is pretty important) about the first time she laid eyes on Junketsu. Once again, this is just her reflecting by herself:
But later on, in episode 18, this scene gets revisited as Satsuki explains it to Ragyo:
These two flashbacks are mutually exclusive. In the first, Satsuki is reflecting upon her childlike innocence and how, after first seeing Junketsu, she was really excited to wear it. This longing appears to have gone on for some time as referenced by the "I yearned for it single mindedly". Finally, Satsuki reflects on her innocence and naivety.
None of this matches with the second flashback, where it's explicitly stated that the moment she saw Junketsu her father told her about the horrors that would await the wearer of the item, and about the task that she would then have to undertake. None of this matches with the "ignorant little girl" in the first flashback at all, suggesting that this scene was changed to fit the later developments in the writing of the show.
Another thing to note about this scene is how Satsuki's father is portrayed in episode 3 and episode 18. While you can't see his face in episode 3, from the back he's clearly not the same design based on his hairstyle alone. Moreover, in episode 3 he's some guy in a fancy suit. In episode 18 they re-draw him in to include a Revocs logo because they've made him into a scientist to fit the story, so it wouldn't make sense for him to be wearing a standard suit.
Spoilers for Kill la KIll - The whole show!
I warned you!
SPOILERZZZ
So, as I've mentioned before, I've been flicking back and forth through the series and noting points where it appears that, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, the story underwent a re-write from the original vision. I only originally picked up on this because people mentioned that there were a few dangling plot points left over from the Nudist Beach storyline but, upon closer inspection, these seemed to point towards a more fundamental change.
I've recently come upon some more evidence of this. Take the first scene from the third episode, where Satsuki is reflecting to herself (this is pretty important) about the first time she laid eyes on Junketsu. Once again, this is just her reflecting by herself:
But later on, in episode 18, this scene gets revisited as Satsuki explains it to Ragyo:
These two flashbacks are mutually exclusive. In the first, Satsuki is reflecting upon her childlike innocence and how, after first seeing Junketsu, she was really excited to wear it. This longing appears to have gone on for some time as referenced by the "I yearned for it single mindedly". Finally, Satsuki reflects on her innocence and naivety.
None of this matches with the second flashback, where it's explicitly stated that the moment she saw Junketsu her father told her about the horrors that would await the wearer of the item, and about the task that she would then have to undertake. None of this matches with the "ignorant little girl" in the first flashback at all, suggesting that this scene was changed to fit the later developments in the writing of the show.
Another thing to note about this scene is how Satsuki's father is portrayed in episode 3 and episode 18. While you can't see his face in episode 3, from the back he's clearly not the same design based on his hairstyle alone. Moreover, in episode 3 he's some guy in a fancy suit. In episode 18 they re-draw him in to include a Revocs logo because they've made him into a scientist to fit the story, so it wouldn't make sense for him to be wearing a standard suit.
They seem to have a bad habit of doing this, though it's not as blatantly obvious as Gurren Lagann's future flash forward never coming to pass, as awesome as it looked out of context.
But that's a better fit for whatever Jojo thread is best suited for that.
Heh, and it seems they're spacing them out too so I guess only about 3-4 episodes into Season 2 will we be able to catch up properly.
But that's a better fit for whatever Jojo thread is best suited for that.
Man, all this dangling stuff will be so glaring in a rewatch. In a way I'm glad I could watch it on a weekly basis so all the dropped/changed material wasn't as apparent (even though I still felt some of the balls being dropped).
shown by the end do a good job in explaining/handwaving that imo,
. I like to think that even the parallell works are canon because of that haha,
.
It was totally something that was changed mid-production, but the
alternate realities
it's just assumed that it was a possible future where Simon is spearheading the Spiral Nemesis
they're just happening in one of the myriad of alternate realities
Though it's probably mostly due to rewrites and redesigns there's no reason she couldn't be single-mindedly yearning for
the ability to kill her mother and avenge the death of her sister, whom they never even bothered to name.
*Spoilers for the entire show, if that's how we're marking this now*
*Seriously Don't Read*
I think at some point it was decided that Ragyo was going to be the villain and that Dr. Matoi and Satsuki's father would become the same person. I definitely think they jettisoned the idea of Aikuro being Satsuki's (if not Ryuko's) father at some point, and I maintain that they probably dumped a fair bit of Nudist Beach stuff, but I doubt we'll ever know. Aikuro being Satsuki's father and having worked closely with Dr. Matoi would have worked pretty well I think, with an ultimate reveal that Dr. Matoi had taken in Ryuko to save her from Ragyo.
I think they'd have been better served with a fairly set plan that was drawn up in advance, but I guess it's easy to say that in hindsight. I don't remember what episode it was, but I remember the episode very early on where Satsuki and Ryuko were really going at it and nearly destroying the academy. When they didn't destroy it and she walked back up the stairs or whatever, I knew we'd be kind of stuck in the academy for a while, and that's exactly what happened. I don't think anyone at Trigger wanted to be the person who said "You know....maybe we should take this to another level" so it kind of didn't go to one until pretty late.
It was a great show, it's just always going to be one of those shows where you go "Man, if only someone had been steering the ship a little better...maybe they wouldn't have lost their way so many times"
Just like the original script for Rebuild of Evangelion 3.0, I will forever want to know what was their initial idea for the plot. I say "initial" idea because it's clear it was never truly set in stone, but we can see some elements were changed so they probably had something in mind back then.
Jex
Member
Anything is possible, I suppose, but it really requires stretching the material to read that scene in a way that makes sense with what we find out much later and it's more reasonable to assume that it's the story itself that has changed. Occam's Razor and all that.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I dunno. If we're going to nitpick people for reading too much into something that isn't there, I have to wonder about those who have somehow convinced themselves that the Nudist Beach duo absolutely had to have been related to the principal characters at some point.
Jex
Member
I personally haven't found any evidence of that! I'm just looking at the explicit text of the show rather than anything which needs to be heavily inferred.
Anyway, here's some more stuff we're expected to swallow as viewers without question, that this killer (?) from episode 8:
Is, as episode 12 details, Nui Harime, as shown in a flashback to the very same event:
Now call me crazy, but the killer as depicted in episode 8 appears to be slinking away and running off and their visual profile is basically the same at Satsuki's. None of this matches with how Nui appears in episode 12.
plasmawave
Banned
I think the "enslaved by the uniform" part was purposely taken out from the earlier episode to leave some mystery for later episodes. Hence the "I was still ignorant back then" dialogue. Also in the earlier episodes, we knew nothing about Life Fibers being aliens that take control of humans.
She was yearning for the uniform but then her dad tells her it's not what she think it is.
Duebrithil
Member
Jex
Member
As I've said earlier, lots of things are possible but I severely, severely doubt it. The way the flashback is presented in episode 3 makes it fairly clear that the scenes depicted later simply didn't exist. I believe that, when that scene was written, her flashback just ended there and we're supposed to infer that throughout her early life Satsuki was really looking forward to wearing Junkestu.
I mean, maybe, on it's own (ignoring the change in the father's design) I could buy your explanation. However, there are so many scenes earlier on in the series that make no sense/directly conflict with later events in the series (or major plot points that just 'disappear') that I can't just buy into the theory that they 'planned it all along'.
Which isn't a problem. Lots of stories that I really enjoy were just made up by the writers as they went along and they worked out perfectly fine. Kill la Kill just happens to have a few dangling threads left over from it's original story and if you tug at them you can get a glimpse at what if might have looked at it.
Now with this I thought
they were gonna have both Satsuki and Nui there that night after Satsuki told Ryuko she ordered the hit on Isshin. Maybe the story was that Satsuki followed Nui for some reason (could have been that she caught wind of Isshin being Soichiro) but got there too late and ran into Nui on her way out. But nope, nothing, just a lie.
Jex
Member
Oh goody, my *favourite*plot holered herring. /s
You forgot this too from episode 1
Good point.
Also, I feel that it's worth pointing out that Dr. Matoi didn't invent the scissor blade at all , according to the first part of the series. I'm not sure who invented it, or for what purpose, but it wasn't him. The only thing he invented was the Kamui, which he created to thwart the ambitions of the Kiryuins. The scissor blade was a weapon that belonged to his killer, and Ryuko took half of the scissor blade to help track down it's original owner. This is stated multiple times in the first arc of the show.
However later it's retconned so that Dr. Matoi invented the Scissor Blade to cut life fibres AND the Kamui as well. It all gets a bit convoluted.
Or not, actually.
It was just weird that even though Aikurō knew and worked with Dr Matoi and knew all about the Kamui he still didn't know about the Scissors, but I think that's perfectly explainable. It's just that, as I've come across many genuine plot problems, I'm miss-attributing normal writing patterns as retconning due to being pre-geared to look out for plot problems.
Please disregard this whole post! I leave it here only as a testament to flawed thinking!
Call ME crazy, but I think we're supposed to see the flashbacks from Ryuko's perspective. She
subconsciously makes a connection between Satsuki and the killer and that is reflected in her flashback, fooling the audience in the process as well. Plus, making the silhouette look someone completely different would have removed any possible suspicions and tension at the moment.
Just a thought.
I just thought it was a cheap way of them making Nui actually being Isshin's killer seem like a surprise (aka it's a red herring).
I mean yeah you could explain that the episode 8 flashback is supposed to be from Ryuuko's perspective but the episode 1 flashback was also from her perspective as well.
I guess it could be explained that the later, regressed flashback is her associating the killer more with Satsuki as the show has progressed but with the way it was executed (the ep 1 flashback being more defined and dramatized and looks more like Nui, while the ep 2 flashback seems to be her in-universe memory of somebody that is definitely Satsuki, even though the reverse is more accurate), it seems more like they realized how ep 1 flashback makes Nui more obvious and they wanted to compensate for that in episode 8
Jex
Member
Point conceded as per above with regards to Evilisk's post.
Wow, nice find.
The discrepancy between the first half and the 2nd half of KLK is kind of incredible.
Jex
Member
Nah I'm crazy.
Someone did a pretty good 3D animation of Ryuko
Yes and no. Ultimately that's what the story says, but it was more of a last minute explanation to cover that plot hole.
Edag Plata
Banned
So I'm one episode in and it was totally weird, but so was TTGL, so how bad could it be? Is this worth going the distance for if I loved TTGL more than anything?
Yeah, I can see that. I would really like to see a remake of this in a few years in either movie or OVAs with a more streamlined and refined story.
This kinda reminds of of Umineko ( the visual novel).
Change of pace / aim / where the story goes around half way in. The first half of the second half is still pretty good, even i different, but the last part turns into some love story.
Marathoned it in around a week. The beginning up to around the mid was 9/10, then up to two thirds 8/10, but it kinda dropped in quality in the last third. It's almost as if it became a bit too generic. And the nearly unkillable villains were quite annoying.
Change of pace / aim / where the story goes around half way in. The first half of the second half is still pretty good, even i different, but the last part turns into some love story.
Marathoned it in around a week. The beginning up to around the mid was 9/10, then up to two thirds 8/10, but it kinda dropped in quality in the last third. It's almost as if it became a bit too generic. And the nearly unkillable villains were quite annoying.
RockTurtle
Member
whatever the changes, ultimately the anime was a blast to watch
Dunno. There have been a number of people that have said they liked both and some have said they liked one over the other.
Just go for it I guess?
Just lower your expectations, some decent to fun moments in the series. Expect the story, characters, pacing and animation to be weaker than TTGL. KLK didn't really leave up to the hype.
Edag Plata
Banned
Sounds good!! I guess worse comes to worse its only 24 episodes. I'm sure if I went into this at the beginning it would have been hype maximum, but this could be incredible with lowered expectations.
RockTurtle
Member
i knew i wasnt going crazy
They spent a very long time up in space.
i knew i wasnt going crazy
Also a very long time naked.
lazybones18
Banned
show needed some extra plot at the end
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