KILLZONE 2 - input lag now? if you want a reskinned COD4, go play WaW

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no... the chirp IS late. I've had enough close encounters to notice that. And I think the delay in death animation actually affects gameplay here. Many shootouts in the beta ended up with "double K.O.s." I've actually never seen so many in any other shooters. I think it is because one killed the other, but death was delayed for half a second, giving the "dead" guy a chance to shoot a few bullets back which killed the "winner" too, resulting in double death. I think it's frustrating. Also, when I take a good aim and shoot a shot burst at my enemy, I expect him to be dead. But I always have to wait a half second to hear the chirp. It breaks the smooth feel of the game. I think they should get this problem fixed ASAP.
 
mr_nothin said:
The chirp is late?
The chirp plays the INSTANT the other person dies, wtf are you people talking about.
Stop trying to nitpick. You guys are reaching and grasping for whatever you cant get your hands on. Just drown in peace and dont get everybody else involved XD
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It's not nitpicking, something is wrong and I hope they fix it.
 
lunlunqq said:
no... the chirp IS late. I've had enough close encounters to notice that. And I think the delay in death animation actually affects gameplay here. Many shootouts in the beta ended up with "double K.O.s." I've actually never seen so many in any other shooters. I think it is because one killed the other, but death was delayed for half a second, giving the "dead" guy a chance to shoot a few bullets back which killed the "winner" too, resulting in double death. I think it's frustrating. Also, when I take a good aim and shoot a shot burst at my enemy, I expect him to be dead. But I always have to wait a half second to hear the chirp. It breaks the smooth feel of the game. I think they should get this problem fixed ASAP.
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Sounds like MGO :( hopefully GG will fix that for the release because it was stuff like this that killed MGO for me.
 
lunlunqq said:
no... the chirp IS late. I've had enough close encounters to notice that. And I think the delay in death animation actually affects gameplay here. Many shootouts in the beta ended up with "double K.O.s." I've actually never seen so many in any other shooters. I think it is because one killed the other, but death was delayed for half a second, giving the "dead" guy a chance to shoot a few bullets back which killed the "winner" too, resulting in double death. I think it's frustrating. Also, when I take a good aim and shoot a shot burst at my enemy, I expect him to be dead. But I always have to wait a half second to hear the chirp. It breaks the smooth feel of the game. I think they should get this problem fixed ASAP.
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I agree with this actually.
 
Actually the difference between this game and many other fps, is when you die your bullets does not de-spawn.. Like in counterstrike or the battlefield games, as soon as you die, the bullet which has just left your barrel will disappear into thin air. In Killzone 2 it will hit its target even if you have just been killed.

The result is that double KIAs are more common, perhaps even more common as the players health points is quite low in KZ2 - only a few shots will kill a player, in BF1942,BF2 you have to almost unload a full clip before someone goes down, it has nothing to do with the slight death-animation delay.
 
Forsete said:
The result is that double KIAs are more common, perhaps even more common as the players health points is quite low in KZ2 - only a few shots will kill a player, in BF1942,BF2 you have to almost unload a full clip before someone goes down, it has nothing to do with the slight death-animation delay.
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I'm actually pretty happy about this. MGO is ridiculous in that aspect, I've emptied entire clips into people only to have them turn around and head shot one or more dudes on my team with a pistol
 
anonymousAversa said:
I'm actually pretty happy about this. MGO is ridiculous in that aspect, I've emptied entire clips into people only to have them turn around and head shot one or more dudes on my team with a pistol
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This is why I quit MGO....and long for a code for KZ2
 
anonymousAversa said:
I'm actually pretty happy about this. MGO is ridiculous in that aspect, I've emptied entire clips into people only to have them turn around and head shot one or more dudes on my team with a pistol
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Yeah I hate when it takes a full clip to bring a person down. Thats why I installed the realism mod for BF2 (PRMM). Often in high hitpoint games you get that silly looking "sidestep around your enemy - shooting" dance. :lol
 
UntoldDreams said:
You're kidding right?
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:lol He probably isn't.. some people would buy the game..and return it without opening it if the game wasn't 1080p or 720p.. or if some tearing popped up 10 minutes into the game.. people are weird like that.
 
lunlunqq said:
no... the chirp IS late. I've had enough close encounters to notice that. And I think the delay in death animation actually affects gameplay here. Many shootouts in the beta ended up with "double K.O.s." I've actually never seen so many in any other shooters. I think it is because one killed the other, but death was delayed for half a second, giving the "dead" guy a chance to shoot a few bullets back which killed the "winner" too, resulting in double death. I think it's frustrating. Also, when I take a good aim and shoot a shot burst at my enemy, I expect him to be dead. But I always have to wait a half second to hear the chirp. It breaks the smooth feel of the game. I think they should get this problem fixed ASAP.
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What you seem to be forgetting is that your opponent isn't dead when you hear the chirp. That's why they're able to be revived if someone can get to them quick enough. The extra bursts from their gun is a movie style thing you sometimes see where when someone is shot their finger is still on the trigger for a few seconds and they get a few bursts off. If you take someone out that isn't using a machine gun, then this doesn't have an effect, once you hear the chirp then that's it. It's over.
 
Yes, the beep is late.

To circumvent that, I just keep shooting until the animation starts. It waste's some ammo, but you know that they're dead then. The .000001 seconds late that the beep is, is time enough for the guy to get one last bullet off on you, and then you die too.
 
jett said:
O rly? Well I rocked-launched your ass from across the map in the gulch. :P
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You did, that was a fucking awesome shot! :lol

Tho on the next game you did team kill me with it... twice. Then proceeded to beat the shit outta my corpse. But hey, I'm not one to hold grudges!

I'm coming for you! [o_o]
 
lunlunqq said:
no... the chirp IS late. I've had enough close encounters to notice that. And I think the delay in death animation actually affects gameplay here. Many shootouts in the beta ended up with "double K.O.s." I've actually never seen so many in any other shooters. I think it is because one killed the other, but death was delayed for half a second, giving the "dead" guy a chance to shoot a few bullets back which killed the "winner" too, resulting in double death. I think it's frustrating. Also, when I take a good aim and shoot a shot burst at my enemy, I expect him to be dead. But I always have to wait a half second to hear the chirp. It breaks the smooth feel of the game. I think they should get this problem fixed ASAP.
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The "death delay" isn't causing that. :|
 
I'm not in the beta but my no1 complaint from all the videos i've seen is the delayed deaths/animation response. It looks way off. Can imagine playing it would be worse... I really hope they can fix this.
 
Forsete said:
Actually the difference between this game and many other fps, is when you die your bullets does not de-spawn.. Like in counterstrike or the battlefield games, as soon as you die, the bullet which has just left your barrel will disappear into thin air. In Killzone 2 it will hit its target even if you have just been killed.
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So thats why I die one second later, behind cover.. come on.
SolidSnakex said:
The extra bursts from their gun is a movie style thing you sometimes see where when someone is shot their finger is still on the trigger for a few seconds and they get a few bursts off.
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Jesus christ.
 
J2d said:
Jesus christ.
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It happens in the single player from the video's i've seen. Honestly I think it would be pretty cool that if you're spraying you get off a few more shots whereever you were aiming after being taken out.
 
Watch this and decide if there's a delay in death animation or not ...

Btw , I can't watch GT videos , where can i find direct link for them ?

And why the hell i am out of kz2 beta , cursed or what :(
 
jmonteiro said:
You guys are making me cry. It seems you are having shit loads of fun with this beta.
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Yes, yes I am. I wish everyone could join in the fun.

Sony should do a holiday special and advertise that every new PS3 (and current PS3 users) can get into the Killzone 2 beta... then extend the beta.
 
~Devil Trigger~ said:
thats actually realistic
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no, it's not. well, you may argue that death comes one second after someone is hit in the head. But the physics of the bullet hits the head should apply instantly. But in KZ2 beta now, you put a bullet into someone's head, he just stand there like nothing happened except for the blood splash. Then half of a second later, all of a sudden he starts a dramatic death animation like throwing arms into the sky and turning 1080 degrees before falling down to the ground. The whole thing just feels so out of place.

also, i don't see any other reasons that could cause the unusual amount of double deaths unless the game handles the gunfires in an extremely unrealistic way. I don't want to sound like a nerd but let's talk about common sense. The normal time interval between two bullets are fired from a assault rifle is about 0.085 sec (700 bullets per minute). At close range, say 10 meters (about 30 feet), it only takes the bullet 0.011 sec (900 m/s) to fly and hit the target. So most likely, there is only one bullet in the air between you and your opponent at any time. of course if you and your opponent both pulled the trigger within that 0.011 sec, you could kill each other at the same time. but the possibility of that happening is very very low.

anyways, whatever the reason is, i think the "death delay" is having a negative impact on the gameplay, or at least the "feel" of the gameplay. I think they should fix it.
 
lunlunqq said:
no, it's not. well, you may argue that death comes one second after someone is hit in the head. But the physics of the bullet hits the head should apply instantly. But in KZ2 beta now, you put a bullet into someone's head, he just stand there like nothing happened except for the blood splash. Then half of a second later, all of a sudden he starts a dramatic death animation like throwing arms into the sky and turning 1080 degrees before falling down to the ground. The whole thing just feels so out of place.

also, i don't see any other reasons that could cause the unusual amount of double deaths unless the game handles the gunfires in an extremely unrealistic way. I don't want to sound like a nerd but let's talk about common sense. The normal time interval between two bullets are fired from a assault rifle is about 0.085 sec (700 bullets per minute). At close range, say 10 meters (about 30 feet), it only takes the bullet 0.011 sec (900 m/s) to fly and hit the target. So most likely, there is only one bullet in the air between you and your opponent at any time. of course if you and your opponent both pulled the trigger within that 0.011 sec, you could kill each other at the same time. but the possibility of that happening is very very low.

anyways, whatever the reason is, i think the "death delay" is having a negative impact on the gameplay, or at least the "feel" of the gameplay. I think they should fix it.
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there's the beta forum, you could go there and explain it to devs :)
 
I agreed some of delay deaths are annoy from some of the video clips. Some deaths are prefect timing or not. I dunno it is bug or not, but I hope it will tweak it more quick timing.
 
If you want to avoid double deaths then don't stand still in front of someone when you're firing at them. Strafe and you'll avoid a double death when someone is shot down since they can't move after that.
 
I've noticed the death delay in the beta...

All it took was a few extra bullets to MAKE SURE they were down, and it's no longer an issue for me :lol
 
lunlunqq said:
no, it's not. well, you may argue that death comes one second after someone is hit in the head. But the physics of the bullet hits the head should apply instantly. But in KZ2 beta now, you put a bullet into someone's head, he just stand there like nothing happened except for the blood splash. Then half of a second later, all of a sudden he starts a dramatic death animation like throwing arms into the sky and turning 1080 degrees before falling down to the ground. The whole thing just feels so out of place.

also, i don't see any other reasons that could cause the unusual amount of double deaths unless the game handles the gunfires in an extremely unrealistic way. I don't want to sound like a nerd but let's talk about common sense. The normal time interval between two bullets are fired from a assault rifle is about 0.085 sec (700 bullets per minute). At close range, say 10 meters (about 30 feet), it only takes the bullet 0.011 sec (900 m/s) to fly and hit the target. So most likely, there is only one bullet in the air between you and your opponent at any time. of course if you and your opponent both pulled the trigger within that 0.011 sec, you could kill each other at the same time. but the possibility of that happening is very very low.

anyways, whatever the reason is, i think the "death delay" is having a negative impact on the gameplay, or at least the "feel" of the gameplay. I think they should fix it.
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well this is a video game(in beta) so im not expecting pure realism, and i dont know how deep GG wanna ground the game on realism. But im just saying in reality, a bullet usually is long past throught the target(in miliseconds) before you see a reaction from that target in realtime.

not saying you're wrong, maybe the Helghast's reaction is too slow even for realism, and maybe this is part of the beta that have to be ironed out. And i agree there should'nt be a "death delay" a multiplay environment.
 
SolidSnakex said:
If you want to avoid double deaths then don't stand still in front of someone when you're firing at them. Strafe and you'll avoid a double death when someone is shot down since they can't move after that.
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I think now I'm not seeing much double deaths because I get a jump on my enemy, double deaths do happen exactly as they should because in those instances they are double deaths due to two dudes basically unloading at each other point-blank. I've actually survived many 1-on-1 situations with just a sliver of life left.
 
Kittonwy said:
I think now I'm not seeing much double deaths because I get a jump on my enemy, double deaths does happen exactly because in those instances they are double deaths due to two dudes basically shooting at each other point-blank.
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Exactly, once you start to get the hang on the game you don't have double deaths occurring much against you because you get out of the way. I still get it on some other players because they just stand in front of me and keep firing instead of moving.
 
About dying... Anytime I'm about to die I typically throw out a "justice grenade" in an attempt to do some final good by lobbing it in the direction of an enemy or at my feet if the guy is behind me. (martyrdom right?)

Thats because I *really want* to try to do something of value before dying. So I think the perceived Death delay (if its truly because of delay in animation) is fine.

I found it to be perfectly fine in the world of Killzone 2 and it prevents you from careless Run and Gun play.
 
I still can't get over how good this game plays/feels and how immersing the environment of the game is.

Its the next step up in FPS as far as I'm concerned... and honestly I'm not sure what other FPS teams are going to do?

Unless Guerrilla Games shares this engine and technology with the rest of Sony & second party... It would be a shame if Resistance 3 couldn't benefit?

You know I hate to say this. I really hate to say this but after playing Killzone 2 beta its kind of hard not to notice the lack of immersion in Resistance 2. It feels like I'm playing in a plastic unrealistic environment after KZ2.
 
UntoldDreams said:
I still can't get over how good this game plays/feels and how immersing the environment of the game is.

Its the next step up in FPS as far as I'm concerned... and honestly I'm not sure what other FPS teams are going to do?

Unless Guerrilla Games shares this engine and technology with the rest of Sony & second party... It would be a shame if Resistance 3 couldn't benefit?

You know I hate to say this. I really hate to say this but after playing Killzone 2 beta its kind of hard not to notice the lack of immersion in Resistance 2. It feels like I'm playing in a plastic unrealistic environment after KZ2.
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I don't think Insomniac uses edge tools like Sucker Punch does, even Slant Six uses edge tools, most of the first-party internal teams like Naughty Dog and Evolution all use edge tools, I'm sure a lot of what goes into Killzone 2 is more game-specific but they probably share tech with the rest of the world wide studios.
 
Kittonwy said:
I don't think Insomniac uses edge tools like Sucker Punch does, even Slant Six uses edge tools, most of the first-party internal teams like Naughty Dog and Evolution all use edge tools, I'm sure a lot of what goes into Killzone 2 is more game-specific but they probably share tech with the rest of the world wide studios.
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Edge tools were developed by Naughty Dog right ?
 
k79 said:
You could've given a warning before linking to a real life execution. That said, no, there's no delay.
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Umm, ok, I didn't watch but--that's disturbing.

This has gone to far... linking a video to a real execution, really? This is a video game folks.
 
roMonster said:
Umm, ok, I didn't watch but--that's disturbing.

This has gone to far... linking a video to a real execution, really? This is a video game folks.
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I guarantee you that if you have any interest in military history, you've seen at least stills from that execution. I agree that there should have been some warning, but to be honest it's not like half his skull comes off and the picture is very grainy.
 
Iain Howe said:
I guarantee you that if you have any interest in military history, you've seen at least stills from that execution. I agree that there should have been some warning, but to be honest it's not like half his skull comes off and the picture is very grainy.
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Hey dude just wanted to say that your pieces of Killzone history at the official website are pretty awesome. Will any of that backstory appear in the actual game?
 
Cesar said:
I think it's made by the ICE team, persons from different studio's like Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, ...
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I believe this is the correct answer. Also, the Edge tools are available to 3rd parties too. I don't think they are restricted to Sony studios.

Anyway, the KZ2 engine tech will, most likely, be shared within Sony studios and maybe even with some first party (like Insomniac Games). I'm pretty sure that the GoW3 team in Santa Monica is sharing tech with the GG team in Amsterdam. Also there are rumors that Sony Liverpool is helping GG with KZ2 (maybe on the engine?).
 
UntoldDreams said:
I still can't get over how good this game plays/feels and how immersing the environment of the game is.

Its the next step up in FPS as far as I'm concerned... and honestly I'm not sure what other FPS teams are going to do?

Unless Guerrilla Games shares this engine and technology with the rest of Sony & second party... It would be a shame if Resistance 3 couldn't benefit?

You know I hate to say this. I really hate to say this but after playing Killzone 2 beta its kind of hard not to notice the lack of immersion in Resistance 2. It feels like I'm playing in a plastic unrealistic environment after KZ2.
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I agree with some of the R2 bashing here, but to be honest K2 will not have that amazing co-op experience R2 has, and what an experience.
 
jmonteiro said:
I believe this is the correct answer. Also, the Edge tools are available to 3rd parties too. I don't think they are restricted to Sony studios.

Anyway, the KZ2 engine tech will, most likely, be shared within Sony studios and maybe even with some first party (like Insomniac Games). I'm pretty sure that the GoW3 team in Santa Monica is sharing tech with the GG team in Amsterdam. Also there are rumors that Sony Liverpool is helping GG with KZ2 (maybe on the engine?).
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That would be good to hear. I would like Killzone2 to raise the quality of the other Sony studio games not just be this lonely single standout game engine.

Man... when the PS3 actually flexes its muscles with Motorstorm2 / Killzone2 / MGS4 its pretty clear it has some strength under the hood.

I do feel bad about other FPS developers though. Seriously this is a kick in the nuts if they try to release something like a generic FPS (TimeShift etc) next year... it will look laughably bad by comparison.
 
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