KILLZONE 2 - input lag now? if you want a reskinned COD4, go play WaW

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Ok, very late rant incoming here. Let me preface.

I skipped out on COD4 last year (all my friends are retarded Halo dorks). So anyway, in preparation for Killzone 2 in a few months, I decided to finally pick it up (Treyarch sucks and WW2 is not my cup of tea).

I really hope Killzone 2 is nothing like Call of Duty 4. COD4 is perhaps the worst FPS I've ever played. They can keep the fast kills, and that's about it. But really, COD4 could have been a good game, but everything is so shittily designed.

Oh, before you say "play it some more" I've got almost 2 days logged and have made it to 55 (I do NOT plan to prestige). My K/D is sitting right at 1.5... which is passable I'd say considering I bought the game cold turkey a year after it came out and have played almost exclusively against maxed prestige players while trying to figure out the maps, what guns I like, and then using guns I had just for challenges/xp/attachments to make them worthwhile. So I'm decent at the game.

I don't even know where to begin. The maps, they are broken. Nearly all of them. There are clearly better starting sides on virtually every map, and on many of them it is soooo easy to camp the other team. While the spawn mechanism works when everyone is running around randomly, it breaks down HORRIBLY if the other team is working as a unit (or just all throwing grenades at the one or two people still alive so they get 10 kills when everyone respawns on them). Also, I've respawned into air strikes. Helicopters need to be more consistent (and are stupidly OP to begin with). Air Strikes are horribly inconsistent too.

Speaking of grenades... TERRIBLE. Just throw it and pray (hey, that about sums the game up). I could mention Martrydom, but I'm sure that's been covered before. Why they make the fuse LESS than a regular grenade just goes beyond stupidity. And they need a huge visual icon... if you don't kill the person you likely won't hear the little grenade clank and you just run past and die. Stupid. Also, when you grab a grenade to throw them back, it should never blow you up. It's nearly impossible to be lucky enough to have one that isn't cooked enough or that JUST HIT so you can actually throw it back.

Other terrible perks: Last Stand and Juggernaut.

Last Stand: This is a neat idea. Horrible execution. If you "kill" someone and they fall into last stand mode, and someone else manages to spam shoot them (or you shoot them in such a way that you CAN'T hit them once they're down) YOU SHOULD GET THE KILL. THE OTHER PERSON SHOULD GET THE ASSIST. YOU KILLED THEM. It also shouldn't last as long as it does. You're bleeding out on a battlefied... you're hooked up to a goddam life support machine (I wouldn't care about this so much if you actually got credit for the kill instead of only getting an assist).

Juggernaut: SO annoying. I don't mind the ability itself, it just needs to disoplay the little health symbol AT ALL TIMES. This is a game with super quick kills and you act on anticipation of when someone is going to die. Juggernaut royally fucks that up and totally breaks up the flow. You've already decided to make your next move by the time the little symbol pops up and it's just dumb.

This game also has the worst hit detection since Gears of War. I mean... unspeakably bad.

Also, crappy ironsights.

Also, there are like 3 or 4 guns worth using.

Furthermore, even granting that it is a year old... this is nowhere near an amazingly looking game graphically. The only thing it has to hang its hat on is 60 FPS.

Oh, and I just remembered something else! Well, I could go on all day, but it's not worth it. But seriously, when you sprint/run and your teammates are running along side you WHY DOES THE PATHING FUCK UP SO MUCH? It's horrible. Not to mention that half the time you sprint it just randomly ends well before it should (you should also be able to fire faster out of sprint... sprinting around is a good way to get owned since you'll be dead before you can even shoot back). They (and a lot of other FPS deves) should seriously consider no collision detection for FRIENDLY units. There are LOTS of reasons why this is so, especially in this game. So fucking annoying.

So I really hope all these "killzone 2 reminds of me COD4" statements are just way off base. Then again, I could look on the bright side and see these comments as meaning "killzone 2 is COD4 without all the dumb shit," which could potentially be a fun game. I just hope Killzone 2 doesn't encourage you to be a little coward bitch on most of the maps.

I can't really talk about the singleplayer, as I've played about five minutes of it (don't care about it, or any other FPS SP really, though I'll probably play through KZ2). But from what little I did play... no thanks (but I don't think anyone is trying to prop up the SP from these games as amazing). Wee nightvision and 800000 laser sights.... WEEEEEE is about all I got from the bits I played.

/rant off

It blows my mind that the game has done as well as it has. Then again I can see how little kids would love the shit out of it. No matter how terrible you are you can always load up a LMG and just hold down the fire button for five minutes while hiding in a shadowy corner and pull of a kill now and then.
 
Most of the CoD4 comparisons are grounded in the weapons and how quickly you kill people. It's very fast, unlike in Halo 3 or Gears 2.

I don't think KZ2 has most of the complaints you mentioned.
 
I love games that you can take down a person fast. (COD4, somewhat Halo 3)

I hate games where it takes more than an entire clip to take them down. ( Gears, MGO etc.)
 
My Arms Your Hearse said:
I really hope Killzone 2 is nothing like Call of Duty 4. COD4 is perhaps the worst FPS I've ever played. They can keep the fast kills, and that's about it. But really, COD4 could have been a good game, but everything is so shittily designed.

I don't even know where to begin. The maps, they are broken. Nearly all of them. There are clearly better starting sides on virtually every map, and on many of them it is soooo easy to camp the other team.

Speaking of grenades... TERRIBLE. Just throw it and pray (hey, that about sums the game up). I could mention Martrydom, but I'm sure that's been covered before. Why they make the fuse LESS than a regular grenade just goes beyond stupidity.
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Man, you pointed out two the my biggest complaints of COD4 (the other being the spawning, fast kill gameplay).

But KZ2 seems to address atleast the terrible map design. I thought the map design was very simple in COD4, and i doubt KZ2 can be anywhere near the same, but I would love to play it for myself so i can make that judgement.

The grenades, well i haven't seen much videos (or amazing GIFs) showing off grenades in KZ2, but i REALLY hope its nothing like COD4 - non-precise throwing, etc.

I think when people make the comparison to COD4 i think they meant the actual fun of shooting someone in the game. But i think that has to do with the low-count of bullets it takes to kill someone.
 
Arsenic said:
The grenades, well i haven't seen much videos (or amazing GIFs) showing off grenades in KZ2, but i REALLY hope its nothing like COD4 - non-precise throwing, etc.
Click to expand...

That's because you really have to learn how to use them. They aren't a "throw and pray" tool in KZ2 as My Arms Your Hearse says they are in CoD4. They're precise, but you have to take the time to learn how to throw them properly. Another issue is that they come out somewhat slowly (definitely slower than CoD4), so you aren't just pulling them out to try to get a free kill if you're getting gunned down.. So a lot of people don't use them or only use them to toss into a room that people are running into a lot.
 
Rapping Granny said:
I love games that you can take down a person fast. (COD4, somewhat Halo 3)

I hate games where it takes more than an entire clip to take them down. ( Gears, MGO etc.)
Click to expand...

I love them too. I LIVE for old Quake/Unreal. But there is a huge difference between insta-gibbing in a game like Unreal and a game like COD4.

In Unreal/Quake, you have an array of options for evading fire and fighting back. In COD4, you have NONE. You're beyond fucked if you are caught by surprise unless the other person is COMPLETELY INCOMPETENT. So, you're encouraged to play like a little bitch. I'm a bit worried Killzone 2 might be the same way (not very fast moving, yet kill nearly instantly)

Oh, another complaint: THE KILLCAM.

It's either totally wrong (probable) or greandes/noob tube home in and track your movement. Also, nothing like being shot ONCE in the foot by a single LMG bullet on killcam, yet you got "headshot" and instagibbed in the game! Either make it work or leave that shit out.
 
My Arms Your Hearse said:
Ok, very late rant incoming here. Let me preface.

I skipped out on COD4 last year (all my friends are retarded Halo dorks). So anyway, in preparation for Killzone 2 in a few months, I decided to finally pick it up (Treyarch sucks and WW2 is not my cup of tea).
Click to expand...

This is where stopped reading. Treyarch had nothing to do with CoD4, I cannot take any further comments seriously.
 
neorej said:
This is where stopped reading. Treyarch had nothing to do with CoD4, I cannot take any further comments seriously.
Click to expand...

I never said they did. I picked up COD4 instead of COD5, for those reasons, even though COD5 just came out. People may wonder why I picked up the year old game instead of the brand new one.

Perhaps that wasnt' clear.

Edit: Well, I suppose I should say COD: WaW, not COD5, but :lol

Though given how successful IW's COD games have been as compared to Treyarch's... you can see why they're not interested in letting them sully the franchise with a "main" entry.
 
My Arms Your Hearse said:
I never said they did. I picked up COD4 instead of COD5, for those reasons, even though COD5 just came out. People may wonder why I picked up the year old game instead of the brand new one.

Perhaps that wasnt' clear.

Edit: Well, I suppose I should say COD: WaW, not COD5, but :lol

Though given how successful IW's COD games have been as compared to Treyarch's... you can see why they're not interested in letting them sully the franchise with a "main" entry.
Click to expand...

Ah, it's clear now. I will read your rant with full interest now. BRB.
 
OK, read it and here's my reply:

I've bought CoD4 two weeks after release. I'm no shooter-kind-of-player, but friends and colleague-reviewers convinced me CoD4 was the FPS reinvented and it was the best thing they ever did, including sex (although I wonder how some of them could even make that statement). So I picked it up, threw it in and 2 hours after playing SP, I decided on playing the MP, hoping it would be better. 1,5 hours later I decided to use that eject-button on my PS3 to it's fullest extend and return the game to my local gamesretailer. So there's my opinion on CoD4 in a nutshell.

Now, a few weeks back I got the invite for the KZ2-beta. I'd like to mention that my hype-o-meter was only slightly in the blue, based solely on the fact that the developer is Dutch and I hope my countrymen will do well in the gamesindustry. After the let-down that Killzone was to me and the mediocre Killzone Liberation, I had no high hopes for Killzone 2, apart from being a tech-showcase for the PS3 (the kind of game you'd show your friends when they come over and you say "look at what my PS3 can do!"). I started playing around half past 9, at 1 o'clock in the morning my girlfriend suggested we'd go to bed on account of having to work the next day. I've played non-stop and even then I wanted to go on.
Now I don't want to go into all the fine details of what seperates KZ2 from CoD4, but the overall feel, balance and detail are all in favour of KZ2. So when people say "it's just like CoD4", take it with a grain of salt the size of Texas. It's not. It's actually a lot more enjoyable IMHO.
 
I loved CoD4. For the record though, I can't even remember the last game I played with good grenade/accurate throwing. CoD4 was just well balanced with highly tweaked controls and gameplay that made it a blast to play.

If I enjoy KZ2 half as much I'll be thrilled
 
Yoboman said:
I loved CoD4. For the record though, I can't even remember the last game I played with good grenade/accurate throwing. CoD4 was just well balanced with highly tweaked controls and gameplay that made it a blast to play.

If I enjoy KZ2 half as much I'll be thrilled
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As much as I don't like Halo... grenades are one thing they do right. And a big reason for why I don't like Halo IS the grenades. I'm just not a fan of them in general and I'm THE WORST ALL TIME grenade thrower. I simply can't do it, and grenades have a magical affinity for me, I SWEAR.

However, they're pretty precise and it is to your advantage to use them tactically. In COD4, on average, you're better off just chucking your grenades in the direction of the UAV blips.
 
Ow my ear hurts. Was trying out my new Playstation 3 Bluetooth headset. It doesn't fit the ear very well :-/ And it has sharp points that dig into your outer ear if you try to make the speaker part fit into your ear better.

Ah well.. at least I can communicate now.
 
My Arms Your Hearse said:
As much as I don't like Halo... grenades are one thing they do right. And a big reason for why I don't like Halo IS the grenades. I'm just not a fan of them in general and I'm THE WORST ALL TIME grenade thrower. I simply can't do it, and grenades have a magical affinity for me, I SWEAR.

However, they're pretty precise and it is to your advantage to use them tactically. In COD4, on average, you're better off just chucking your grenades in the direction of the UAV blips.
Click to expand...

It's difficult to get a grenade kill in KZ2; the blast radius isn't very large.

They're useful as a diversionary tactic, or to keep the enemy away, rather than to necessarily kill them.
 
Private Hoffman said:
It's difficult to get a grenade kill in KZ2; the blast radius isn't very large.

They're useful as a diversionary tactic, or to keep the enemy away, rather than to necessarily kill them.
Click to expand...

I usually use grenades to throw them off for a bit, so I can get into a better position.
 
Private Hoffman said:
It's difficult to get a grenade kill in KZ2; the blast radius isn't very large.

They're useful as a diversionary tactic, or to keep the enemy away, rather than to necessarily kill them.
Click to expand...


good, that's another cheap thing about COD4 I hated, and the 3 grenade perk didn't help as it was spamming in every match you go.
 
Schrade said:
Ow my ear hurts. Was trying out my new Playstation 3 Bluetooth headset. It doesn't fit the ear very well :-/ And it has sharp points that dig into your outer ear if you try to make the speaker part fit into your ear better.

Ah well.. at least I can communicate now.
Click to expand...

i stopped using a bluetooth headset when i found out it caused problems online in burnout paradise and Rainbow Six vegas2. is this the case in the beta to?.. anayway, usb is much more comfortable imo and better sound/ less noise.
 
This thread has me so hyped. Quick question. Are there too many double kills? A lot of the videos I have seen seem to have quite a few of them, and it is mentioned in the N4G preview, is this a problem with the game?
 
My Arms Your Hearse said:
Ok, very late rant incoming here. Let me preface.

Speaking of grenades... TERRIBLE. Just throw it and pray (hey, that about sums the game up). I could mention Martrydom, but I'm sure that's been covered before. Why they make the fuse LESS than a regular grenade just goes beyond stupidity. And they need a huge visual icon... if you don't kill the person you likely won't hear the little grenade clank and you just run past and die. Stupid. Also, when you grab a grenade to throw them back, it should never blow you up. It's nearly impossible to be lucky enough to have one that isn't cooked enough or that JUST HIT so you can actually throw it back.
Click to expand...


Yeah. The grenades and noob tube (nade launcher) are almost game breakingly bad in COD4.

Everyone chooses X3 grenades as their first perk. Grenades are pretty impossible to avoid, unless it actually hits you and you throw it back. They're over powered, and this is even without the high explosive perk, which is a joke in itself.

Twats tend to spawn and launch 3 grenades right off the bat. Kills a pretty much gauranteed because of the maps (basically just a big open battlefield).

Search and destroy is totally broken. Each team throws all their grenades and fires all there noob tubes across the whole map. Takes out most of the players.

I liked COD4 a lot online, I made around 7th prestiege. But in time it went to shit. Everyone started exploiting...well....everything, and it's fucking horrible to play now.


Oh, I agree with the hit detection as well. Often snipers were made pointless, as you be firing away and nothing would happen.
 
The Hug Dog said:
This thread has me so hyped. Quick question. Are there too many double kills? A lot of the videos I have seen seem to have quite a few of them, and it is mentioned in the N4G preview, is this a problem with the game?
Click to expand...
It doesnt really bother me...which is suprising to me.
It only bothers me when there's alot of lag and double kills come late.
You'll shoot them to death and they're still running around shooting at you and then you die and THEN a few secs later they die after you died.

But i'm not sure which I would like.
Because the canceled shots in couterstrike source kind of made me mad but it also felt cheap...so I dont know.
 
...AND THE FUTCHAAHHH!!!!

THE FUTCHAHHH!!!!!!! IS. OUR. BIRTHRIGHT!!!!!!!

/Scolar Visari

What an amazing voice actor. I really hope KZ2 has a story on par with Uncharted.
 
My Arms Your Hearse said:
I love them too. I LIVE for old Quake/Unreal. But there is a huge difference between insta-gibbing in a game like Unreal and a game like COD4.

In Unreal/Quake, you have an array of options for evading fire and fighting back. In COD4, you have NONE. You're beyond fucked if you are caught by surprise unless the other person is COMPLETELY INCOMPETENT. So, you're encouraged to play like a little bitch. I'm a bit worried Killzone 2 might be the same way (not very fast moving, yet kill nearly instantly)
Click to expand...
As a fellow Quake player from back in the day I know what you mean (and I agree with some of your issues in your first post, though not all); however I think that you may be disappointed if you think KZ2 will represent a different style of play, or rather if you hope it will play more like Quake or Unreal. I'm not saying KZ2 is like COD4 btw - it is not; but both those games are from a completely different school than Quake and its ilk. As you say, that kind of evade and fight simultaneously element is something pretty unique to that kind of higher-paced, extreme reflex memory/twitch-distance based shooter and it's not in line with the philosophy of games like COD4 or KZ2, which put more of an onus on the tactical (KZ2 in particlar). This kind of tactical play encourages the fact that if you are outwitted and caught by surpise then you are fucked - that is very much the point and by design I believe.
 
My Arms Your Hearse said:
Though given how successful IW's COD games have been as compared to Treyarch's... you can see why they're not interested in letting them sully the franchise with a "main" entry.
Click to expand...

WaW is the third fastest selling game ever in the UK.
vomit-smiley-003.gif
 
Rapping Granny said:
I love games that you can take down a person fast. (COD4, somewhat Halo 3)
Click to expand...

Then you'll love Killzone 2. I swear, most encounters I have last less than a second. It's like, there's a guy, BAM, one or both of us are dead in the blink of an eye.
 
Rapping Granny said:
I love games that you can take down a person fast. (COD4, somewhat Halo 3)

I hate games where it takes more than an entire clip to take them down. ( Gears, MGO etc.)
Click to expand...
Woah woah there. It does not take an entire clip to kill someone in MGO. In Gears yeah but not MGO. Learn to play :|
 
Dibbz said:
Woah woah there. It does not take an entire clip to kill someone in MGO. In Gears yeah but not MGO. Learn to play :|
Click to expand...

From what I remember playing of MGO, it takes a big ass amount of bullets to take down someone.
 
Dibbz said:
Woah woah there. It does not take an entire clip to kill someone in MGO. In Gears yeah but not MGO. Learn to play :|
Click to expand...

It doesn't take a clip to down somebody in Gears either. Active reload rounds with the Lancer will take somebody down in about a third of a clip, if you aim for the head. Learn to play :D
 
BadlyCookedTurkey said:
From what I remember everyone just ran around lucking headshots. Horrible.
Click to expand...
MGO is my biggest gaming dissapoinment yet. ><
 
NutJobJim said:
It doesn't take a clip to down somebody in Gears either. Active reload rounds with the Lancer will take somebody down in about a third of a clip, if you aim for the head. Learn to play :D
Click to expand...

heh, you can kill enemies in most games rapidly if you get a head shot...doesn't change the fact that gears enemies feel like bullet spunges...Uncharted had the balance better in my opinion, then again you are fighting mutated beefcakes so it isn't entirely inappropriate
 
Fersis said:
MGO is my biggest gaming dissapoinment yet. ><
Click to expand...

Me too!

Loved the beta actually. But as with everything, it goes downhill when the cocks come out to play.

Couldn't play it the way I wanted. Stealth, chokeholds, etc.
Was basically assualt rifle or don't bother playing.
 
BadlyCookedTurkey said:
Me too!

Loved the beta actually. But as with everything, it goes downhill when the cocks come out to play.

Couldn't play it the way I wanted. Stealth, chokeholds, etc.
Was basically assualt rifle or don't bother playing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, worst community ever.
Ridden with bugs and glitches,so much lag that i can only play in matches of less than 12 players .. if i try to play matches with more players i get disconnected from the PSN.
So i sended an email to Konami customer support and their answer was :
Your country is not in the list of MGO supported countries
Click to expand...
. >_<
Oh and not using the PSN Store was a stupid and greedy move... specially when i cant shope form my 'unsopported' country.
 
EnthusiasTech said:
So you found some but want more ? :lol

By the way Who's GG's PR guy ? Any email adress , name ?
Click to expand...
Sadly i found no one... and i dont know if they have someone like JStevenson from Insomniac who is closely following the community but i think that his name is Sebastian Downie.
(Which is totally awesome.) <-Beggin' for BETA you know?

EDIT: Silly me, Sebastian Downie is the QA Manager but he has an awesome thread here :http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=killzone2&thread.id=56462
 
Private Hoffman said:
...AND THE FUTCHAAHHH!!!!

THE FUTCHAHHH!!!!!!! IS. OUR. BIRTHRIGHT!!!!!!!

/Scolar Visari

What an amazing voice actor. I really hope KZ2 has a story on par with Uncharted.
Click to expand...

That's Brian Cox. I like his work. He did the voice of The Director in Manhunt too.

Funnily enough he played Hannibal Lecktor in Manhunter. :lol
 
BadlyCookedTurkey said:
Me too!

Loved the beta actually. But as with everything, it goes downhill when the cocks come out to play.

Couldn't play it the way I wanted. Stealth, chokeholds, etc.
Was basically assualt rifle or don't bother playing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I can see that. It's too bad because in a time when it's popular to bag on the Japanese for not embracing online, Kojipro put together a damn good online shooter. It's got some technical flaws (lag!!!) but otherwise it turned out a lot better than I thought it would. Decent games are few and far between due to a tiny and immature player base though.

Of course Kojipro totally fucked up the online UI which reduced the player base to a fraction of what it could have been, so even when the Japanese get online right, they get online wrong. I still love MGO, but yeah, what a wasted opportunity.
 
Fersis said:
Sadly i found no one... and i dont know if they have someone like JStevenson from Insomniac who is closely following the community but i think that his name is Sebastian Downie.
(Which is totally awesome.) <-Beggin' for BETA you know?

EDIT: Silly me, Sebastian Downie is the QA Manager but he has an awesome thread here :http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=killzone2&thread.id=56462
Click to expand...
None of them are awesome until they send me a beta code dude ...

hisfirstname@guerrilla-games.com try it , you ll see :lol
 
freethought said:
Yeah, I can see that. It's too bad because in a time when it's popular to bag on the Japanese for not embracing online, Kojipro put together a damn good online shooter. It's got some technical flaws (lag!!!) but otherwise it turned out a lot better than I thought it would. Decent games are few and far between due to a tiny and immature player base though.

Of course Kojipro totally fucked up the online UI which reduced the player base to a fraction of what it could have been, so even when the Japanese get online right, they get online wrong. I still love MGO, but yeah, what a wasted opportunity.
Click to expand...

I think that the guns should not have been so powerful. There should have been advantages to using stealth. When was metal gear ever about the guns? M4s at that.
Using stealth however just lead to frustration and most games decsended into everyone running to the middle for a gunfight.
The gun controls weren't bad, but if I wanted to play an online shooter, I'd play an online shooter. It felt like in MGO even someone who'd never played before could pull off headshots with ease.

And yeah, the player base were mostly idiots. It seemed every time I had someone in a chokehold an idiot teammate would come along and steal the kill, and waste me as well. >:(

Small games were good I guess. Less lag, more reason to be stealthy. Not good enough for me to bother with Konami's whole store nonsense though, stopped playing then.
 
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