KILLZONE 2 - input lag now? if you want a reskinned COD4, go play WaW

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lowrider007 said:
Not all games should have lag, oh sorry, 'I mean simulated weight', why the hell do I want simulated weight in a game ?, I want to feel in control of my character, when playing the demo I feel like I'm playing underwater, it feels very constrained.

Sam Bishop's review was right on the money for me, but if other people can get along with the controls fine then mucho kudos to you guys, I'm not saying the game is bad, I thought it was brilliant but I do wonder what would've of happened if they had made the controls lighter and more responsive from the start, would people of said "on noess the controls are too light" , I don't think they would've of, and at the same time more people would of been happy with the controls, win win situation.
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I think the game controls beautifully. After a good while, you get used to it and from the beta, most actually seemed to prefer it like that.

It's not lag. Far from it. Weight and inertia give the game a realistic and unique feel that no other game has done before. I'm glad they didn't just copy the easy and extremely light controls of COD4.
 
mr_nothin said:
A lot of us are playing on SD still. It looks weird in SD but still looks great.

Also, on a lot of cheap HDTVs/monitors that are in the 18-24 inch range...pretty much suck. Only certain games look good on them. On my friend's monitor, Gears of War 2 looks tons better than KZ2.

It really just depends on what people have.
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heh, I have a monitor and the game looks as good as anything else on it...
 
mr_nothin said:
On my friend's monitor, Gears of War 2 looks tons better than KZ2..
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for the love of God... who needs Xbox 720 or PS4 ? who needs upgrading PC parts every year ? let's just buy one of these freaking magical monitors!!!!! seriously are you guys doing this just to humiliate yourselves?

cab is waiting, catch with the thread later
 
nelsonroyale said:
heh, I have a monitor and the game looks as good as anything else on it...
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I guess I should say LCD's.
Alot of LCDs that are 22 inches and lower, are complete ass. Especially for HD content.

Lince said:
for the love of God... who needs Xbox 720 or PS4 ? who needs upgrading PC parts every year ? let's just buy one of these freaking magical monitors!!!!! seriously are you guys doing this just to humiliate yourselves?

cab is waiting, catch with the thread later
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Lol, wtf?
I'm stating how it looks on his tv. I'm not saying Gears 2 looks better than KZ2 (by any margin). Magical monitors? More like crappy monitor. I dont get how i'm suppose to 'magically' feel humiliated after stating that.

Some content looks better on certain tv's, how's that hard to believe? There are tons of games where, if you play them in SD, the better looking game can become the less graphically appealing game than it's less graphically appealing counterpart. Take them both to HD and it switches.
 
-viper- said:
Just like I said in the other thread, releasing a demo was a bad, bad idea. Hopefully this won't affect the sales, but I can see many people avoiding the game because of it, regardless of the good reviews.

For example, at Play.com:

Nitejester | 05/02/2009 |
Hmm just played the PS3 single player demo. Looks superb but found the controls awkward, difficult to see what was going on at times, did not really feel in control of the character (like you do in COD4 for example, sorry to use that as a comparison!), hope the multiplayer is better. Played through 3 times in the hope that I would like it more, but didn't. I have no desire to play again. Disappointed.

GlasgowWarrior | 05/02/2009 |
The demo came out in europe today and it was decent but not amazing as its made out to be i dunno if itll be better just cause he demo was ok doesnt mean the game wont be amazing the only reason i put 4 stars is that people are sayin its a cod4 beater i disagree

Surprise surprise - COD4 comparisons!
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So you'd prefer if those people had just bought it and then been disappointed?
 
Ploid 3.0 said:
I also play with the tanks. Shoot one in the base and it fire off like a rocket. Have a lot of tanks across the room and play bowling with them. You get a big explosion as the prize.
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Exactly :lol It certainly prolonged the demo for me doing that kinda stuff.

BeeDog said:
My first playthrough was also a catastrophe :lol died 4 times in the warehouse and couldn't hit shit. But on my third playthrough without any crosshair and HUD, I started pwning space nazis left and right.
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Damn, I really need to try that. Haven't played HUDless yet :O
 
Oh please, he just said that Gears of War 2 looked better than Killzone 2 if both games are played on that monitor. I'm sure he meant overall image quality as a result of the monitor, not that it magically made the game look better than Killzone 2 in general.

Some cheap monitors vary a lot in terms of consistency across input.
 
PowderedToast said:
So you'd rather those people buy it and be disappointed then?
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I was thinking the same when I read his post but I'm guessing he means that it was a bad idea from a business point of view.
 
Truant said:
Oh please, he just said that Gears of War 2 looked better than Killzone 2 if both games are played on that monitor. I'm sure he meant overall image quality as a result of the monitor, not that it magically made the game look better than Killzone 2 in general.

Some cheap monitors vary a lot in terms of consistency across input.
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Exactly .
 
Took me some time to get used to the cover-aspect of the game, but overall, the demo was great. People complaining about the weight-thing: don't even try Mirror's Edge. I find the weight-feel you get from the controls pretty good, you don't have the feeling you're a camera with a gun attached to it floating through the gameworld, like you get in other FPS-games I've played. It adds to the realism in the game (unlike for instance Gears of War, where the characters are wearing a car as body-armor and still run 100 yards in 12 seconds).

The MP-beta and this demo convinced me that this is actually a FPS worth buying and keeping again. This is exactly what I was looking for in a shooter. I can understand how others might not feel the same way, but I buy this game from my money, so I think I'm entitled to spend it anyway I want, right?
 
neorej said:
Took me some time to get used to the cover-aspect of the game, but overall, the demo was great. People complaining about the weight-thing: don't even try Mirror's Edge. I find the weight-feel you get from the controls pretty good, you don't have the feeling you're a camera with a gun attached to it floating through the gameworld, like you get in other FPS-games I've played. It adds to the realism in the game (unlike for instance Gears of War, where the characters are wearing a car as body-armor and still run 100 yards in 12 seconds).

The MP-beta and this demo convinced me that this is actually a FPS worth buying and keeping again. This is exactly what I was looking for in a shooter. I can understand how others might not feel the same way, but I buy this game from my money, so I think I'm entitled to spend it anyway I want, right?
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*applause*
 
Not sure what people find 'sluggish' about the use of cover here. The mechanics work perfectly in context of the 'flow' of combat (at least in the demo). I actually find myself using cover CONSTANTLY because I find it so fun and interesting. Sure, it's not a SLAM into cover like Gears but it's just a great way to scour the environment and plan your approach. Also I find peaking over said cover to be done perfectly. I can't wait to play on larger levels with even more enemies and more going on and on harder difficulties. Using cover and being pelted and then sprinting to the next piece of cover strategically is going to make this game really shine. Can't wait.

- the spint/jump/movement all feel great as well - you don't get fucking stuck on geometry ALL THE FUCKING TIME like Resistance 2 or do things you didn't intend to do like GEARS OF WAR. Best, most reliable cover mechanic ever.
 
lowrider007 said:
Sam Bishop's review was right on the money for me, but if other people can get along with the controls fine then mucho kudos to you guys, I'm not saying the game is bad, I thought it was brilliant but I do wonder what would've of happened if they had made the controls lighter and more responsive from the start, would people of said "on noess the controls are too light" , I don't think they would've of, and at the same time more people would of been happy with the controls, win win situation.
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Many people that played the original KZ would've been disappointed. One of the things it did really well was give you the feeling of actually controlling a character rather than a set of floating hands and guns, as is the case in most FPS. Having a game that does things differently isn't a bad thing. Team ICO's games are two other games that take into account weight when it comes to the movement and that's one of the reasons I love those games.
 
antiloop said:
Can't haters play COD4 instead of ruining KZ2? Not all games have to control the same.
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I agree...but games will be judged accordingly. Look at RE5. We've seen tons of 3rd person shooters, many of them control the same. RE5 doesn't, and is getting slagged for it.

Again, this reminds me of Perfect Dark Zero, and that game got slagged for "sluggish" controls.

It's funny, starting from Goldeneye, to Halo, to Perfect Dark, to this...it was the MP that got me used to the controls, not really the single player. I think a MP demo with maybe just one map from the beta would have been nice for this demo as well, just so people can spend a good 20 minutes playing through it getting used to the controls, rather than the 5 minute length of the demo (really felt like 5 min to me, I didn't time it).
 
lowrider007 said:
Not all games should have lag, oh sorry, 'I mean simulated weight', why the hell do I want simulated weight in a game ?, I want to feel in control of my character, when playing the demo I feel like I'm playing underwater, it feels very constrained.
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Haven't you heard, guns weigh 200 pounds!
 
lowrider007 said:
Not all games should have lag, oh sorry, 'I mean simulated weight'
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t97510.gif

Edgy.
 
SolidSnakex said:
Team ICO's games are two other games that take into account weight when it comes to the movement and that's one of the reasons I love those games.
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Right on the money. Some people were having problems with the control in Shadow of the Colossus, however I never understood the critique, to me the controls of Wanda were just perfect. And I loved how Agro had a mind of his own.

Same with KZ2. Nice simulation of weight, I hate twitch shooters.
 
biglime said:
It's really just another dependable solid shooter. Nothing special at all.

Nice visuals here and there (although often too dark, and with a great sense of being flung through corridors level design-wise) but the game itself does nothing new.

If people ramp way back on their expectations, and pay no notice to some of the inflated review scores, they'll be really happy with their purchase.

Expect the second coming and you'll be sorely disappointed.
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Hearing this makes me sad(I do have high expectations), your reviews are almost always dependable. However I did play the demo and really liked it. I think it has that feel of solidity that the metal gear series have, not just flat surfaces surrouning you. The sensation of shooting helghast and objects in the world remind me of my first play through with the awesome MGS2 demo.

BTW consolevania isn't really over is it.. ? :(
 
k79 said:
Exactly :lol It certainly prolonged the demo for me doing that kinda stuff.



Damn, I really need to try that. Haven't played HUDless yet :O
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Try it, its really nice.
 
The slow aiming mechanic didn't bother me half as much as the button combinations to shoot from cover. I can't understate how much I've come to hate the ds3 controller, just playing the demo 2x through felt carpal-tunnel-tastic.

Past that it's a pretty competent shooter and I hope the multiplayer catches me.
 
SolidSnakex said:
Many people that played the original KZ would've been disappointed. One of the things it did really well was give you the feeling of actually controlling a character rather than a set of floating hands and guns, as is the case in most FPS. Having a game that does things differently isn't a bad thing. Team ICO's games are two other games that take into account weight when it comes to the movement and that's one of the reasons I love those games.
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Your right actually, it does feel like your controlling a character, a separate character, It felt disjointed, that took away alot of the immersion for me, if that's how they wanted it to feel then they may as well made the game third person, because oddly that's how it felt when playing.

I want 'be' that character, trying to extrapolate my characters movement due to the simulated weight of his armer/gun etc made it feel like my character was in the third person, that's not how I want to feel in a first person shooter.

And yes having a game that breaks away from the norm and do things differently is fine, it just usually means your potentially downsizing the audience for your product.

Any way like I said before I'm buying the game and I'm going to try my damnedest to get used to the controls.
 
If you don't get the cover system - practice!

It takes a while to get used to - and to realise that you don't need to just pop out with R1. Lifting yourself over with the left stick and then zooming imediately for the headshot is great.

Love that shit.
 
Just put in my preorder.

Regarding weapon weight thing, thats a matter of taste. Nothing right or wrong but every game does not have to do everything exactly the same either.

Personally I really like the weightsimulation and the feeling of the guns. (especially that gun you find on the ground.) Made me think of Rainbow six vegas 2, which I love and still play regularly(coop).
 
Forsete said:
Right on the money. Some people were having problems with the control in Shadow of the Colossus, however I never understood the critique, to me the controls of Wanda were just perfect. And I loved how Agro had a mind of his own.

Same with KZ2. Nice simulation of weight, I hate twitch shooters.
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Oh god, SoTC had awful controls. Just beacuse of the bad framerate. I enjoyed the game, but the controls didn't feel perfect. If KZ2 controls like that I don't want to play the demo anymore. ;)
 
lowrider007 said:
I want 'be' that character, trying to extrapolate my characters movement due to the simulated weight of his armer/gun etc made it feel like my character was in the third person, that's not how I want to feel in a first person shooter.
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I don't get the third person comparison since most of those games don't take into account character weight either. The amount of games that do (both third and first person) is very small, which is why whenever a game does take character weight into account there's always a lot of complaints. I'd like to see more games do it but I know that's not going to happen. But at least there are some developers willing to try it out.
 
Lince said:
you really need a beefy honorable PC to say "hi" to Killzone 2, a 399$ PC will struggle to even bow down to what Killzone is rendering on screen at a stable frame rate :lol
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lol, wut?

you're not too familiar with PC tech, are you?

you should visit Gaf's PC hardware thread before making such comments.
 
^ go to hell. lol

deepbrown said:
If you don't get the cover system - practice!

It takes a while to get used to - and to realise that you don't need to just pop out with R1. Lifting yourself over with the left stick and then zooming imediately for the headshot is great.

Love that shit.
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Agree, aiming gets better over time. Something like Perfect Dark Zero...but nowhere near as annoying.

I was surprised to find that increasing the sensitivity is what fixed my inability to target enemies at a great distance.
 
Thrakier said:
Oh god, SoTC had awful controls. Just beacuse of the bad framerate. I enjoyed the game, but the controls didn't feel perfect. If KZ2 controls like that I don't want to play the demo anymore. ;)
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The framerate made the game hard to play at some points, agree. But the controls themselves were brilliant. :)
 
deepbrown said:
If you don't get the cover system - practice!

It takes a while to get used to - and to realise that you don't need to just pop out with R1. Lifting yourself over with the left stick and then zooming imediately for the headshot is great.

Love that shit.
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Yep, I found this very intuitive.
 
Played the demo only one time last night. Started the game up and changed the control scheme to Alternate 2 and then started the game. Control scheme is pretty much perfect for me, except I'd like to have sprint on L2 instead of L3 and I'd like to be able to hold it down for when I want to sprint, instead of tapping it and it going forever. That may or may not be an option, not sure.

The demo itself... WOW! I was pretty much blown away by the sheer amount of stuff going on on screen. Videos don't do it nearly as much justice as actually playing the game. From watching my Twitter feed apparently a few people were having it lock up on them, I didn't have any issues with that thus far. I thought the aiming and movement was pretty good. Going into it, I knew it played far more tactically than Resistance 2 or anything like that so I played it with that mindset. Much more conservative, controlled bursts, going for headshots, etc. The AI is already pretty good, and this was at an easy difficulty so I can tell they're going to be insane on Veteran. I can't wait to replay this demo at least a couple more times. I don't want to wear it out, but I do want to experiment with the AI and using different tactics.
 
Had to download it twice because it corrupted during the first try.

I just did a couple of runs through it. Holy shit it's fucking awesome. I wasn't used to the weight of the guns and the aiming for a bit, but it just clicked after about 5 minutes. I got into the cover system during the second try, and I was popping the helmets off of Helghast with my green dot sight. The StA 52 is fucking terrible for that level - it's not made for medium range shooting.

As a game, Killzone 2 doesn't really anything truly unique, but it does what it does so well that I'm just super awesomely hyped for the full product.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
you're not too familiar with PC tech, are you?

you should visit Gaf's PC hardware thread before making such comments.
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I've been building my own PCs for 10 years now, I've had parts from AMD/Intel/Ati/Nvidia whatever, always trying to keep with the latest but not the most expensive of course. I am familiar with PC tech and I will tell you again, no 399$ PC will render what Killzone is rendering on screen and computing off screen at a stable framerate, curse Windows, drivers or whatever you like, that's the truth. You should take these things into account before responding to such my comments.

lol, wut?
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u r s0 c00l, c4n I haz y0ur wr1t1ng sK1lLz please?¿
 
OK

I've thought of a solution in regards to the controls,

What GG could do is tweak the x-axis and y axis sensitivity settings in the control menu so that not only does it make the movement more sensitive it also takes away some of the simulated weight in the game, the more you raise it, the more the simulated weight is cut down, I think this would be the perfect compromise and would please everyone.

Take into account that alot of people that are complaining are not happy even with sensitivity settings on full, this is because no matter how high you raise it the simulated weight settings stay the same.

Thoughts ?
 
One thing that seemed technically strange to me was that despite the lighting being completely dynamic, as far as I can tell, you can't shoot out things like lights. I know it's immaterial in this game, it hardly matters..but going all the way to having shards of glass fall when you shoot lights without actually extinguishing the light seems a bit strange.
 
Blablurn said:
i love me some killzone 2

http://i41.tinypic.com/xybsh.jpg

it's the german review copy i just received.
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McBacon said:
Bastard! I'm hoping mines (UK) coming, but postman is scared of a little snow!
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2 people on the same page in this thread say they are getting a Killzone 2 review copy? Where did you guys get it from? I also want one hehe :(

Congratulations on getting a Killzone 2 review copy! :) It must be really cool to have, and especially before the retail game is out for sale :)
 
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