KILLZONE 2 - input lag now? if you want a reskinned COD4, go play WaW

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I was going to post a reply to Dirtbag and Co RE the twitch test, but how to you argue with that level of stupitidy. Do you have any understanding of inertia at all?

Stop bitching, the rest of us DON'T want the game turned into yet another twitch fest.
 
just plated through again. this has got to be some of the ai ive seen in a shooter. Also, i tick above default feels much better (sensitivity)

first post using the ps3 browser. UGH
 
Zefah said:
Lots of people are going off about the guns feeling awesome and realistic, but I really didn't feel that. It may be realistic, but I found it very annoying that the only way to have any sort of accuracy was to either go into aim mode or fire in short burts.
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:lol
 
Zefah said:
I'm sure I am late to the impressions game and no one cares, but I gotta say I wasn't all that impressed. The lighting and smoke effects were awesome, but there sure were a lot of low detail textures in the game. I guess that is why the developers went crazy with motion blur.

The sound is amazing though. I wish I had a surround sound setup to get the full experience. I cringed whenever anyone talked, though. It was like the devs have a hardon for the word "fuck". Throw a grenade at a Helghast and they say "fuuuuuuuck." It was kind of embarrasing to listen to. Maybe that's just me, though.

The worst part about the game for me were the controls. I can get used to the button layout, but the aiming was just awful in my opinion. It looks like the last few pages have been focused on a heavy debate of these controls, but I have to agree with the side that says the aiming sucks. It felt like Perfect Dark Zero all over again and was a very frustrating experience. I played around with various levels of sensitivity, but I just couldn't find anything that made it bearable.

Lots of people are going off about the guns feeling awesome and realistic, but I really didn't feel that. It may be realistic, but I found it very annoying that the only way to have any sort of accuracy was to either go into aim mode or fire in short burts. I'm sure I could get used to it, but I gotta say I wasn't having very much fun with the demo.

Also, what is up with no HUD indicator to show the player where grenades landed? Sure it is more realistic that way, but I bet it will get mind numbingly frustrating on harder difficulties where the enemies will surely be using more grenades.

Maybe the demo level was just particularly boring, but I personally didn't find anything that set Killzone 2 apart from other random shooters. I was excited to finally get a chance to play the game, but I came out disappointed unfortunately. The fun factor just wasn't there for me. I'll probably get the final product once it drops in price.
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I'm pretty disappointed with the controls as well. I couldn't disagree more about the button layout though. It is the one thing that's making me reconsider picking this up at launch and cancelling my preorder. I could deal with the aiming if I could remap the iron view/zoom to the L2 button instead of R3. I would also remap the crouch button L2 to L1 and move the melle attack (L1) to R3. Does anyone really like have the melee set to L1? I can't believe that in this day and age all fps's don't have fully customizable controls - especially one of this caliber and importance. It's such an easy fix too, I really hope they address this issue.
 
Pristine_Condition said:
Yeah, that sounds real scientific there.

Al-Haytham is spinning in his grave. Congrats.
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Allow me to offer the reason then, since you're suspicious (I should have known before I said it)

Considering all the attacks I'm getting, it's a reasonable fear that someone will fabricate their results just to mess with me- just like people are maliciously leading me on to start up my PS3 to test Resident Evil's demo. Anyone can SAY they tried the flick test, and intentionally not flick it fast enough. There, that's the reason I won't believe it. I'll only believe people who've proven themselves to be unbiased and trustworthy.
 
cakefoo said:
What are you talking about? I just tried the Resident Evil demo, and it responded to every flick. Congrats, do you just ENJOY wasting people's time?
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Just like how you are wasting everybody's time right now with a silly argument.
 
TheFatOne said:
Just like how you are wasting everybody's time right now with a silly argument.
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How is it silly when the game's centered around gunplay? Oh, that's right- it's a complaint, so it's laughed off, just like every negative bullet point in the reviews.
 
Zefah said:
Lots of people are going off about the guns feeling awesome and realistic, but I really didn't feel that. It may be realistic, but I found it very annoying that the only way to have any sort of accuracy was to either go into aim mode or fire in short burts.
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2eanz8g.jpg
 
You can laugh all you want with your momentum and realism arguments, but I was just posting my opinion. I am sure I would have enjoyed the demo a lot more if the aiming wasn't so distracting. My comparison to Perfect Dark Zero may not have been accurate, but I remember feeling the same way about the aiming when I first played PDZ and being similarly distracted and frustrated with the game.

I think I'll go back to the demo and try it a bit more later. The button layout is customizable, right? I have a feeling that the aiming would feel a lot better if it wasn't simply toggled by R3 and instead the "melee" button was on R3 and the aim button was on L1.
 
cakefoo said:
Yes, I know that acceleration as you hold the stick down all the way is present. But if that's the explanation for the videos, then they've set the first 50ms of the press to absolute zero, when it should at least be moving slowly.
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It could be that the value that is being returned from whatever equation or algorithm they use to handle momentum is so small that it is being rounded to zero.
 
Are you people even aware that Cakefoo enjoyed the demo? As stated explicitly in his youtube vids? You're being blind as all Hell.

Try putting this into perspective: You're arguing with your own kind, at this point. There hasn't been a legitimate troll for 20+ pages. Ergo, you're turning on other Killzone 2 enthusiasts.
 
Fistwell said:
Yeah, i know! It's like they refuse to reward spray and pray shit!! What gives?!
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I wouldn't mind the more realistic behavior of automatic firearms if the aiming wasn't so shitty. I do fine on most other console FPSs, but the aiming seemed so unintuitive that it made the whole experience frustrating. If it wasn't such a grueling task to get my crosshairs on enemies then I certainly wouldn't mind the realism.

Maybe I just suck at the game, but I like I said I do just fine with other console shooters.
 
gears 2 fails the flick test. i hope it isn't necessary for me to put a video on youtube. i hope people realize it's a fucking retarded thing to judge a game by.
 
Zefah said:
You can laugh all you want with your momentum and realism arguments, but I was just posting my opinion. I am sure I would have enjoyed the demo a lot more if the aiming wasn't so distracting. My comparison to Perfect Dark Zero may not have been accurate, but I remember feeling the same way about the aiming when I first played PDZ and being similarly distracted and frustrated with the game.

I think I'll go back to the demo and try it a bit more later. The button layout is customizable, right? I have a feeling that the aiming would feel a lot better if it wasn't simply toggled by R3 and instead the "melee" button was on R3 and the aim button was on L1.
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That would be called "Alternate 2"

Also try moving for aiming, or just using the pistol.

Aiming is really easy for me and I was popping off hipshots with no HUD on my second playthrough.
I've logged about 15 hours on console shooters, as I'm mostly a PC gamer.
 
Zefah said:
You can laugh all you want with your momentum and realism arguments, but I was just posting my opinion. I am sure I would have enjoyed the demo a lot more if the aiming wasn't so distracting. My comparison to Perfect Dark Zero may not have been accurate, but I remember feeling the same way about the aiming when I first played PDZ and being similarly distracted and frustrated with the game.

I think I'll go back to the demo and try it a bit more later. The button layout is customizable, right? I have a feeling that the aiming would feel a lot better if it wasn't simply toggled by R3 and instead the "melee" button was on R3 and the aim button was on L1.
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This is a game where you have to work for your kills by aiming, using short bursts to manage recoil, etc.

If you want a game that holds your hand on every battle and engagement, go play Call of Duty with its gratuitous lock-on. That way, with its rather braindead AI and automatic aiming, you can just progress through the game without having to think much or put any effort in whatsoever.

I found that particular comment to be what really made no sense.
 
Zefah said:
You can laugh all you want with your momentum and realism arguments, but I was just posting my opinion. I am sure I would have enjoyed the demo a lot more if the aiming wasn't so distracting. My comparison to Perfect Dark Zero may not have been accurate, but I remember feeling the same way about the aiming when I first played PDZ and being similarly distracted and frustrated with the game.

I think I'll go back to the demo and try it a bit more later. The button layout is customizable, right? I have a feeling that the aiming would feel a lot better if it wasn't simply toggled by R3 and instead the "melee" button was on R3 and the aim button was on L1.
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Not really no. There are a few presets to choose from, but they are all pretty much the same. I didn't see a way to remap the buttons, but if I'm wrong, someone please let me know.

Private Hoffman said:
This is a game where you have to work for your kills by aiming, using short bursts to manage recoil, etc.

If you want a game that holds your hand on every battle and engagement, go play Call of Duty with its gratuitous lock-on. That way, with its rather braindead AI and automatic aiming, you can just progress through the game without having to think much or put any effort in whatsoever.

I found that particular comment to be what really made no sense.
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The problem is the contols feel unnatural (at least to me) to click on the R3 button every time you want to zoom, since this is a fast paced game and that's the same stick you aim with. It would be much quicker if you could zoom with L2.
 
dfyb said:
gears 2 fails the flick test. i hope it isn't necessary for me to put a video on youtube. i hope people realize it's a fucking retarded thing to judge a game by.
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Please do. Just to end the argument.
 
Zefah said:
You can laugh all you want with your momentum and realism arguments, but I was just posting my opinion. I am sure I would have enjoyed the demo a lot more if the aiming wasn't so distracting. My comparison to Perfect Dark Zero may not have been accurate, but I remember feeling the same way about the aiming when I first played PDZ and being similarly distracted and frustrated with the game.

I think I'll go back to the demo and try it a bit more later. The button layout is customizable, right? I have a feeling that the aiming would feel a lot better if it wasn't simply toggled by R3 and instead the "melee" button was on R3 and the aim button was on L1.
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Funny_Pictures_Animated_Funny_Baby.gif
 
SSM25 said:
WTF is a flick test?
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A test procedure that measures the lag in control input. I'm going to try the flick test on other games. I hope they pass. Flick test SFHDr. If you don't jump capcom screwed the game up.
 
dfyb said:
gears 2 fails the flick test. i hope it isn't necessary for me to put a video on youtube. i hope people realize it's a fucking retarded thing to judge a game by.
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I think someone pointed out though that it doesn't matter as much because Gears is a 3rd person game. I don't even know what the whole deal is, the controls are a LITTLE sluggish but they were pretty easy to get used to. Maybe they'd be better if they were faster, who knows , still an awesome game.
 
Zefah said:
I wouldn't mind the more realistic behavior of automatic firearms if the aiming wasn't so shitty. I do fine on most other console FPSs, but the aiming seemed so unintuitive that it made the whole experience frustrating. If it wasn't such a grueling task to get my crosshairs on enemies then I certainly wouldn't mind the realism.

Maybe I just suck at the game, but I like I said I do just fine with other console shooters.
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That's because other console fps have copious amounts of auto aim/aim assist. Welcome to a fps that doesn't spoon feed you kills whilst it holds your hand.
 
Private Hoffman said:
This is a game where you have to work for your kills by aiming, using short bursts to manage recoil, etc.

If you want a game that holds your hand on every battle and engagement, go play Call of Duty with its gratuitous lock-on. That way, with its rather braindead AI and automatic aiming, you can just progress through the game without having to think much or put any effort in whatsoever.

I found that particular comment to be what really made no sense.
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Yeehaw. That's the mindset to have. You suck at the game? Go play something else newb! This is a real shooter's simulation! Let's see how that will help the game's sales.

You comment about how Call of Duty holds your hand through every battle and engagement, but how is this game any different? It is pretty obvious how heavily scripted everything is in the demo. And while it may just be the difficulty level, the AI certainly doesn't seem any more intelligent than other games. They hide behind some cover and wait for you. That's it. Never once did they charge me or try and flank me in the demo.
 
Zefah said:
I think I'll go back to the demo and try it a bit more later. The button layout is customizable, right? I have a feeling that the aiming would feel a lot better if it wasn't simply toggled by R3 and instead the "melee" button was on R3 and the aim button was on L1.
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Give it another shot. I was harping on the control scheme earlier (and no, it's not full customizable) but after 4 times through the default setup clicked. The game handles differently from almost any other fps out there. Someone said this earlier, but I agree: it's really closer to Gears or Uncharted in first person. You want to get to cover, then pop & shoot your way through the battlefield. Give it some time, it's fun.
 
dfyb said:
gears 2 fails the flick test. i hope it isn't necessary for me to put a video on youtube. i hope people realize it's a fucking retarded thing to judge a game by.
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Judging a game by its controls are retarded? (aren't you Mr. Keyboard/Mouse constantly complaining about pc controls?)
 
Zefah said:
Yeehaw. That's the mindset to have. You suck at the game? Go play something else newb! This is a real shooter's simulation! Let's see how that will help the game's sales.

You comment about how Call of Duty holds your hand through every battle and engagement, but how is this game any different? It is pretty obvious how heavily scripted everything is in the demo. And while it may just be the difficulty level, the AI certainly doesn't seem any more intelligent than other games. They hide behind some cover and wait for you. That's it. Never once did they charge me or try and flank me in the demo.
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The AI is leagues better than most games, and certainly far more advanced than Call of Duty. If they didn't try to flank you in the demo, did you even use the cover at all? If you're camping for just a few seconds, they will lob a grenade and then come after you from both sides. The AI is very smart, engaging, and aggressive. It's one of the game's strong suits.

When I say "hold your hand", I was talking to the lock-on you experience with CoD.

Obviously, this is a linear shooter, but with dynamic AI and 'kill box' scenarios.

CoD4 just feels like "run, run run, shoot something if it gets in your way".
 
Zefah said:
Yeehaw. That's the mindset to have. You suck at the game? Go play something else newb! This is a real shooter's simulation! Let's see how that will help the game's sales.

You comment about how Call of Duty holds your hand through every battle and engagement, but how is this game any different? It is pretty obvious how heavily scripted everything is in the demo. And while it may just be the difficulty level, the AI certainly doesn't seem any more intelligent than other games. They hide behind some cover and wait for you. That's it. Never once did they charge me or try and flank me in the demo.
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Are we playing the same demo?

Also, I am at the point where if people are going to bitch about the controls so much, I am just going to say get lost. Don't like or want to get used to it? Beat it.
 
nib95 said:
That's because other console fps have copious amounts of auto aim/aim assist. Welcome to a fps that doesn't spoon feed you kills whilst it holds your hand.
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You know why the have "copious amounts of aim assist"? It is because analog stick aiming sucks fucking balls.

Give me the option to use a mouse and a keyboard and you can take away all of that crap.

I love how everyone with Helghast Eyes in their avatar is telling anyone with a negative opinion to "get lost" or "beat it". That attitude is sure going to help. No non-positive opinions allowed! 9.8 review score?! What the fuck? Hang that reviewer and burn his goddamn family!
 
So I retried the flick test and flicked even faster and sure enough, I saw what people are talking about.




...But if I ever play a game flicking like that, I hope someone busts through my door, chops off my balls and steals my gaming equipment. What the fuck, people?!?!?! Play and enjoy.

And I like that statement about not being crosshairs in the middle of the screen. I hate that about most FPSes. This is akin to riding Agro in SOTC. There's a sense of life and weight. In KZ2, the barrel of your gun isn't glued to your cheek.
 
Dirtbag said:
Judging a game by its controls are retarded? (aren't you Mr. Keyboard/Mouse constantly complaining about pc controls?)
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1. this isn't judging a game by controls. this is judging a game by what happens when you flick the analog stick real fast. i think there are valid complaints about the controls, but the flick test isn't one of them.

2. no, i'm not constantly complaining about PC controls O_o

Orlics said:
I think someone pointed out though that it doesn't matter as much because Gears is a 3rd person game. I don't even know what the whole deal is, the controls are a LITTLE sluggish but they were pretty easy to get used to. Maybe they'd be better if they were faster, who knows , still an awesome game.
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it doesn't matter if it's a third person game -- you're still aiming a crosshair. i was holding down LT while testing.
 
dfyb said:
gears 2 fails the flick test. i hope it isn't necessary for me to put a video on youtube. i hope people realize it's a fucking retarded thing to judge a game by.
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Does it? Well then I would complain about it too. And if 50 people replied to my comments, I'd reply back if I felt they were arguing with me and demonstrated that they weren't grasping the technicalities or weren't respecting my feelings.
 
Zefah said:
Yeehaw. That's the mindset to have. You suck at the game? Go play something else newb! This is a real shooter's simulation! Let's see how that will help the game's sales.

You comment about how Call of Duty holds your hand through every battle and engagement, but how is this game any different? It is pretty obvious how heavily scripted everything is in the demo. And while it may just be the difficulty level, the AI certainly doesn't seem any more intelligent than other games. They hide behind some cover and wait for you. That's it. Never once did they charge me or try and flank me in the demo.
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Disagree.

and this isn't going to be pretty.
 
Zefah said:
Yeehaw. That's the mindset to have. You suck at the game? Go play something else newb! This is a real shooter's simulation! Let's see how that will help the game's sales.

You comment about how Call of Duty holds your hand through every battle and engagement, but how is this game any different? It is pretty obvious how heavily scripted everything is in the demo. And while it may just be the difficulty level, the AI certainly doesn't seem any more intelligent than other games. They hide behind some cover and wait for you. That's it. Never once did they charge me or try and flank me in the demo.
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:lol :lol
 
WTF are people complaining about now?, jesus..........

People complaining about the AI, I was the most skeptical person about AI, but it turned out awesome in the end, the find cover, flank, throw grenades to flush you out, they constantly move making the gunplay more dynamic..........I love it.
 
Zefah said:
You know why the have "copious amounts of aim assist"? It is because analog stick aiming sucks fucking balls.

Give me the option to use a mouse and a keyboard and you can take away all of that crap.
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No it doesn't suck balls. You just suck balls at it. I know it's a cliche thing to say, but that is basically the honest truth. You aren't very good at Killzone 2 and the lack of auto aim is one of the main reasons. For the first time in a console fps you're having to rely on your own true aim (and not the computers) to get kills and that to you sucks balls.

Youtube uploads are taking forever today, but as soon as my vid is uploaded I'll post a link. Try if you can to point out a single part where the aiming isn't precise or I'm not 100% in control.
 
Has anyone tried canceling their gamestop.com order? I rather order at amazon.com now but the gamestop site says you can't cancel your order once the preorder code went out. It didn't say that when I preordered a few days ago =\
 
Played through the demo a few times and I haven't really noticed any input lags. I don't play many shooters but I felt the game's control was fine. Or..maybe because I'm not accustomed to cod4/hl3 controls I didn't think kz2's control was "bad". Who knows. Although, I must say I was expecting the game to look a bit better.

Anyway, let's prentend that guerilla decides to change kz2's control to better suit cod4/hl3/mainstream shooter gamers. Then, according to dirtbag, that'll translate to more sales. But it's just so odd to see dirtbag wanting to see sony's game succeed when that goes against his vision of wanting to see MS "knock Ps3 off the map in the U.S". I guess dirtbag, just like speevy, has finally turned over a new leaf and is genuinely hoping for good games to succeed.
 
Honest feelings:

As far as single player is concerned, I basically agree with those who believe it's just another solid shooter that will deliver a good experience.

As far as MP goes - I was in the beta so I know how awesome MP is. MP is what will set this game apart. I don't feel that the SP campaign will be anything particularly special though. In fact, playing this demo made me appreciate a game like Gears of War that much more in some ways.
 
dfyb said:
1. this isn't judging a game by controls. this is judging a game by what happens when you flick the analog stick real fast. i think there are valid complaints about the controls, but the flick test isn't one of them.

2. no, i'm not constantly complaining about PC controls O_o


it doesn't matter if it's a third person game -- you're still aiming a crosshair. i was holding down LT while testing.
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I did find Gears 2's aiming a bit tough to get used to, like Killzone 2. I'm used to them both now. In Gears 2's case, you're always in cover when you aim so being a bit sluggish when aiming isn't really a problem.
 
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