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[Mik2121]

Yeehaw. That's the mindset to have. You suck at the game? Go play something else newb! This is a real shooter's simulation! Let's see how that will help the game's sales.

You comment about how Call of Duty holds your hand through every battle and engagement, but how is this game any different? It is pretty obvious how heavily scripted everything is in the demo. And while it may just be the difficulty level, the AI certainly doesn't seem any more intelligent than other games. They hide behind some cover and wait for you. That's it. Never once did they charge me or try and flank me in the demo.

How is a game being scripted, being also holding your hand through every battle? It doesn't make sense.

Also, while this game might be scripted (almost every game is scripted..), there are a lot of things that happen randomly, like friends dying or the way the enemies react.

And you say they didn't flank you or try to charge you? Well, funny thing because:

1) They DID try to flank me in the warehouse a couple times and I have seem them trying different attack patterns every time I play. Mostly after breaking the bridge and getting to the next area, and in the last battle before opening the door. I have had them trying to get through both doors on the last room at the same time, another time one threw a grenade right into the center of the room and the rest of them entered the room right after that, etc..
2) The demo's difficulty level is the 3rd out of 4 (being the 4th the easiest). Try playing on the hardest setting when the game is released and let's see if they act exactly the same

 

[Dirtbag]

1. this isn't judging a game by controls. this is judging a game by what happens when you flick the analog stick real fast. i think there are valid complaints about the controls, but the flick test isn't one of them.

All the flick test is there to do is show an example of what happens everytime you press the joystick, only showing it in simplest terms for people that don't grasp what is happening.
That 'flick test' happens everytime you look in any direction (in the form of a delay before the input 'counts' so to speak).

 

[Andronicus]

http://i42.tinypic.com/2eanz8g.jpg

:lol

 

[Deleted member 17706]

No it doesn't suck balls. You just suck balls at it. I know it's a cliche thing to say, but that is basically the honest truth. You aren't very good at Killzone 2 and the lack of auto aim is one of the main reasons. For the first time in a console fps you're having to rely on your own true aim (and not the computers) to get kills and that to you sucks balls.

Youtube uploads are taking forever today, but as soon as my vid is uploaded I'll post a link. Try if you can to point out a single part where the aiming isn't precise or I'm not 100% in control.

Analog sticks are not accurate in the slightest. Maybe it is just because I am used to PC shooters, but I do fine with most other console shooters. I even do fine in Resistance which is also on the PS3.

I don't know if they all have aim assist or auto aim, but it makes the game a lot more playable and enjoyable. I'm not looking to battle with my controller to enjoy a game personally, but I guess I don't deserve to play Killzone 2 then in your eyes.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Allow me to be offer the reason then, since you're suspicious (I should have known before I said it)

Considering all the attacks I'm getting, it's a reasonable fear that someone will do it just like people are maliciously leading me on to start up my PS3 to test Resident Evil's demo. So why stop there? Anyone can SAY they tried the flick test, and intentionally not flick it fast enough. There, that's the reason I won't believe it. I'll only believe people who've proven themselves to be unbiased and trustworthy.

Fine, you offered YOUR reason. Now, allow me to expand...

Could you or someone else test it on their own console? Remember though, you have to be very quick with it (brush up-right with the left side of your thumb on the top of the stick works fastest for me). Because I'm not there to see if anyone's doing it fast enough, I unfortunately won't take a negative test result as reliable.

You act like you are soliciting GAFers to "test" your theory.

Your "test" however, is a complete sham, a complete fraud, because the only "test" results you are willing to believe are the "test" results that back up your own claims and preconceived notions.

Therefore, your solicitation of others to "test" is actually just a solicitation of others to tell you you are right. It is clear that this is the case because:

-You refuse to believe "test" results counter to your claims because you say they can't prove they are doing the test correctly

And yet...

-You are requiring ZERO PROOF from those people you are soliciting to "test" your notion who would come back with a positive "test" result. For all you know those people could just be agreeing with you without even doing the "test" at all, much less performing the "test" correctly.

By your own admission here, "anyone can SAY they tried the flick test, and intentionally not flick it fast enough," yet you don't seem to fathom that the opposite can just as easily occur.

That perceived lack of common sense reasoning makes you either a moron or a bad actor, i.e. a simple troll. Since you seem to be capable of coherent posts, I'm guessing you aren't stupid, so you must be willingly overlooking the obvious holes in the logic of your solicitation of "test" results.

Either way, this doesn't bode well for you to be able to prove your point to anyone here with a modicum of common sense, because by conducting yourself in such an obviously-flawed manner, you have damaged any credibility you may have had regarding this matter.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

How is a game being scripted, being also holding your hand through every battle? It doesn't make sense.

Also, while this game might be scripted (almost every game is scripted..), there are a lot of things that happen randomly, like friends dying or the way the enemies react.

And you say they didn't flank you or try to charge you? Well, funny thing because:

1) They DID try to flank me in the warehouse a couple times and I have seem them trying different attack patterns every time I play. Mostly after breaking the bridge and getting to the next area, and in the last battle before opening the door. I have had them trying to get through both doors on the last room at the same time, another time one threw a grenade right into the center of the room and the rest of them entered the room right after that, etc..
2) The demo's difficulty level is the 3rd out of 4 (being the 4th the easiest). Try playing on the hardest setting when the game is released and let's see if they act exactly the same

Weird. Maybe I'll give it another try. In that same warehouse I seriously sat in one spot for about 2 minutes to see what the enemies would do. They just continued to pop up from cover and shoot random shots and lob grenades in my direction. They never tried to charge me.

 

[Cruzader]

Ok just played the demo once again with regular config and its still playable even though I like ALT2 better. The character movement is fine, no lag or anything. WTF is wrong with ppls!!!!!!!!! I hope GG doesnt change anything other than removing unlimited ammo for you handgun.

 

[cakefoo]

So I retried the flick test and flicked even faster and sure enough, I saw what people are talking about.




...But if I ever play a game flicking like that, I hope someone busts through my door, chops off my balls and steals my gaming equipment. What the fuck, people?!?!?! Play and enjoy.

And I like that statement about not being crosshairs in the middle of the screen. I hate that about most FPSes. This is akin to riding Agro in SOTC. There's a sense of life and weight. In KZ2, the barrel of your gun isn't glued to your cheek.

Ok, so you don't play like that? Fine. I'm fine if you don't play like that. I do because it feels right with this aiming engine. Wanna know something? I've said it millions of times, but is no more appropriate than now: I like the way it ignores brief input, and I think it's a possibility that GG taylor-made it that way to compensate for twitchy fingered gaming. I did a pretty good job of hitting my targets in the video didn't I? Yeah I didn't use scope, but that was intentional, to show how well I have adapted to the engine.

 

[fistwell_old]

Played through the demo a few times and I haven't really noticed any input lags.

Me neither. Then again, the average human response to visual stimulus is like 180 ms. I don't think i'd notice the extra 50 ms of flick lag(TM).

 

[SSM25]

Analog sticks are not accurate in the slightest. Maybe it is just because I am used to PC shooters, but I do fine with most other console shooters. I even do fine in Resistance which is also on the PS3.

I don't know if they all have aim assist or auto aim, but it makes the game a lot more playable and enjoyable. I'm not looking to battle with my controller to enjoy a game personally, but I guess I don't deserve to play Killzone 2 then in your eyes.

To me it feels like I must earn every Kill, which I like a lot (it's a lot easier in other games like R2, but it's just not as satisfying to me). But people have different taste, so maybe K2 is just not suited for you.

 

[Dirtbag]

Played through the demo a few times and I haven't really noticed any input lags. I don't play many shooters but I felt the game's control was fine. Or..maybe because I'm not accustomed to cod4/hl3 controls I didn't think kz2's control was "bad". Who knows. Although, I must say I was expecting the game to look a bit better.

Anyway, let's prentend that guerilla decides to change kz2's control to better suit cod4/hl3/mainstream shooter gamers. Then, according to dirtbag, that'll translate to more sales. But it's just so odd to see dirtbag wanting to see sony's game succeed when that goes against his vision of wanting to see MS "knock Ps3 off the map in the U.S". I guess dirtbag, just like speevy, has finally turned over a new leaf and is genuinely hoping for good games to succeed.

I was also right about every point in my thread. Lending credibility to my ability to predict mainstream trends in NA. Thanks for the bump.
Read it.

 

[nib95]

Analog sticks are not accurate in the slightest. Maybe it is just because I am used to PC shooters, but I do fine with most other console shooters. I even do fine in Resistance which is also on the PS3.

I don't know if they all have aim assist or auto aim, but it makes the game a lot more playable and enjoyable. I'm not looking to battle with my controller to enjoy a game personally, but I guess I don't deserve to play Killzone 2 then in your eyes.

Yes, you probably are too used to PC games, and yes Resistance does also have copious amounts of auto-aim. Nearly all other console fps do really.

You don't have to battle with your controller, just like you don't have to battle with your mouse. Just takes a bit of practise and skill. It would have been exactly the same when you first started gaming on the PC. But to say the sticks aren't accurate simply because you suck at them is retarded. I think dozens can vouch for exactly how accurate the sticks really are. Hell even on the GAF, the number of us in the BETA that were capping people in split seconds and getting head shots left and right was pretty much a testament to that.

Multiplayer is going to be hilarious in this game.

.

 

[TheFatOne]

Ok, so you don't play like that? Fine. I'm fine if you don't play like that. I do because it feels right with this aiming engine. Wanna know something? I've said it millions of times, but is no more appropriate than now: I like the way it ignores brief input, and I think it's a possibility that GG taylor-made it that way to compensate for twitchy fingered gaming. I did a pretty good job of hitting my targets in the video didn't I? Yeah I didn't use scope, but that was intentional, to show how well I have adapted to the engine.

I have the perfect solution for you don't buy the game. If you don't like the controls don't buy the game. As much as you want them to GG are not going to change the controls now. Either live with them or don't play the game.

 

[pseudocaesar]

Has anyone tried canceling their gamestop.com order? I rather order at amazon.com now but the gamestop site says you can't cancel your order once the preorder code went out. It didn't say that when I preordered a few days ago =\

Obviously to stop people like you from doing what your trying to do, which is preorder for the demo then change.

 

[Loudninja]

I am ready for the multiplayer ,cant way to play those new maps.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Weird. Maybe I'll give it another try. In that same warehouse I seriously sat in one spot for about 2 minutes to see what the enemies would do. They just continued to pop up from cover and shoot random shots and lob grenades in my direction. They never tried to charge me.

Whenever I sat in one spot doing nothing in the warehouse, someone would always flank and get to a spot behind me. If that didn't happen, a grenade was thrown in my direction.

 

[blindrocket]

Okay, I have played the demo a few more times tonight and the controls are definitely warming up to me. Though at times, it's hard for me to get a precise bead on an enemy at a distance very quickly.

One thing I ending up doing was taking the sensitivity back to defaults! Upon first playing I instantly felt the need to boost them up to max. Later I realized this only made things worse. Now that I am more comfortable with the controls, the default setting for X,Y sensitivity I find to be preferable!

 

[cakefoo]

Fine, you offered YOUR reason. Now, allow me to expand...



You act like you are soliciting GAFers to "test" your theory.

Your "test" however, is a complete sham, a complete fraud, because the only "test" results you are willing to believe are the "test" results that back up your own claims and preconceived notions.

Therefore, your solicitation of others to "test" is actually just a solicitation of others to tell you you are right. It is clear that this is the case because:

-You refuse to believe "test" results counter to your claims because you say they can't prove they are doing the test correctly

And yet...

-You are requiring ZERO PROOF from those people you are soliciting to "test" your notion who would come back with a positive "test" result. For all you know those people could just be agreeing with you without even doing the "test" at all, much less performing the "test" correctly.

By your own admission here, "anyone can SAY they tried the flick test, and intentionally not flick it fast enough," yet you don't seem to fathom that the opposite can just as easily occur.

That perceived lack of common sense reasoning makes you either a moron or a bad actor, i.e. a simple troll. Since you seem to be capable of coherent posts, I'm guessing you aren't stupid, so you must be willingly overlooking the obvious holes in the logic of you solicitation for "test" results.

Either way, this doesn't bode well for you to be able to prove your point to anyone here with a modicum of common sense, because by conducting yourself in such an obviously-flawed manner, you have damaged any credibility you may have had regarding this matter.

My test was a simple request for a confirmation that I wasn't the only one who was observing the problem. If I told you that I was seeing a 3D sailboat in a cross-eyed stereoscopic picture and you didn't, does that necessarily mean our pictures are different? No, it could just mean you are incapable of fulfilling the requirements of the test, either out of honesty or possibly even bias.

And fortunately I got what I wanted: to know that my PS3's not defective. MoonsaultSlayer was the one who did it, and I thank him for volunteering and being honest and helpful. Maybe HIS PS3 is defective too. :lol

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Honest feelings:

As far as single player is concerned, I basically agree with those who believe it's just another solid shooter that will deliver a good experience.

As far as MP goes - I was in the beta so I know how awesome MP is. MP is what will set this game apart. I don't feel that the SP campaign will be anything particularly special though. In fact, playing this demo made me appreciate a game like Gears of War that much more in some ways.

I think most people will agree down the line, but I prefer a series of small, pitched battles having fun with physics and a.i. to that pretty bad, overblown screenplay quality GoW has. I guess I just don't have patience for that hamfisted storytelling some of these games focus on. And the boss battle mentality that plagues something like Resistance 2 was also very generic to me.

Not trying to defend what could end up very average not having played it, but I hope it's just very straight series of fun firefights.

 

[sprocket]

Whenever I sat in one spot doing nothing in the warehouse, someone would always flank and get to a spot behind me. If that didn't happen, a grenade was thrown in my direction.

yup me too i sat there while onthe phone. they killed my buddy and flank behind me and stabbed me in the back .

 

[TheFatOne]

It could also test a theory I have about japan. The japanese aren't paying for 360s nor ps3's, so I believe the Japanese are the most price conscious of all 3 markets. I think the japanese will buy 360's if they feel they are getting value (i.e. cheap enough), based solely on the amount of 3rd party games going multi-plat. If there is one game that will get the Japanese buying 360's its final fantasy. If you can move some units in Japan, a Japanese 360 port wouldn't be inconcievable, but currently there just aren't enough japanese 360's to warrant it. If 360's hit the equivalent of 250 American (or less), I bet they could move some units in Japan. I don't ever see 360 taking japan, but sell a few million over there, and jap devs will have some success at home/ but make their profits overseas in the west.

Explain this to me

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Ok, so you don't play like that? Fine. I'm fine if you don't play like that. I do because it feels right with this aiming engine. Wanna know something? I've said it millions of times, but is no more appropriate than now: I like the way it ignores brief input, and I think it's a possibility that GG taylor-made it that way to compensate for twitchy fingered gaming. I did a pretty good job of hitting my targets in the video didn't I? Yeah I didn't use scope, but that was intentional, to show how well I have adapted to the engine.

To tell you the truth... I actually didn't think anyone played like that. Sorry for hurting your feelings.



.....so you really try to just barely graze the thumb stick as fast as you can to make the slightest of movements...? Really? How do you manage that while shooting as well? Obviously you had to have exaggerated the flicking a bit.... right?

 

[Liferebooted]

Obviously to stop people like you from doing what your trying to do, which is preorder for the demo then change.

Too bad you're a fing moron thats not what I did. At the time amazon wasn't doing release date delivery, now they are, and it's almost $15 cheaper than gamestop.com You are so worthless jr.

 

[Esperado]

Explain this to me

Get that shit out of here. That's a post from March 2007. This is February 2009. Things change. God damn.

 

[nib95]

Cakefoo, I think the initial delay is just to account for weight in regards to realism. I think the point is that you are supposed to feel like you are carrying something weighty, and that it takes a little bit more effort or resistance/strength to move it. The analogue sticks in the game don't just act as a directional guide for something light as a feather (like in most shooters), but also as a strength metre. The harder/stronger/longer you hold them in whatever direction, the greater or faster the movement. Just like in real life.

 

[cakefoo]

Are you people even aware that Cakefoo enjoyed the demo? As stated explicitly in his youtube vids? You're being blind as all Hell.

Try putting this into perspective: You're arguing with your own kind, at this point. There hasn't been a legitimate troll for 20+ pages. Ergo, you're turning on other Killzone 2 enthusiasts.

:lol Bravo.

 

[eznark]

Holy shit, I went into the demo fully expecting to hate this and it is rad as hell. Polar opposite of RE5, this demo got me stoked.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Explain this to me

wow....you spent some time researching him.

wow.

 

[Mutagenic]

Too bad you're a fing moron thats not what I did. At the time amazon wasn't doing release date delivery, now they are, and it's almost $15 cheaper than gamestop.com You are so worthless jr.

Careful what you call others, that is how I was given my tag.

 

[Dirtbag]

Explain this to me

what is there to explain, its all in the post? (look at the dates, this was way before betrayalton annoucement, and my speculation on NA market was even before 360 saw the big price drop, I was totally right).

Well when he says he was right in every point in that thread and isn't I'm going to call him out on his bullshit.

"test a theory that the japanese are more price concious then the NA" is the only claim from that post anyway.

 

[TheFatOne]

Get that shit out of here. That's a post from March 2007. This is February 2009. Things change. God damn.

Well when he says he was right in every point in that thread and isn't I'm going to call him out on his bullshit.

 

[fistwell_old]

To tell you the truth... I actually didn't think anyone played like that. Sorry for hurting your feelings.

I... welll... yeah, seconded.
This thread here is bizarre.

 

[matticus]

For some reason, I knew Dirtbag wasn't going to like the demo when I saw his comments towards Kittonwy and someone who tried to defend Kittonwy.

Looks like he was just getting the engine warmed up!

 

[UntoldDreams]

Ok, so you don't play like that? Fine. I'm fine if you don't play like that. I do because it feels right with this aiming engine. Wanna know something? I've said it millions of times, but is no more appropriate than now: I like the way it ignores brief input, and I think it's a possibility that GG taylor-made it that way to compensate for twitchy fingered gaming. I did a pretty good job of hitting my targets in the video didn't I? Yeah I didn't use scope, but that was intentional, to show how well I have adapted to the engine.

cakefoo,

I'm pretty sure this flick test does indeed highlight a behavior but I'm not sure it matters and honestly, I would suspect many other games display this same effect. I think it doesn't effect gameplay in any appreciable matter other than fanning flames.

As a game QA person this is exactly the type of testing and toying which is done by the way.
Usually if the QA worker is concerned they would file a bug ticket in some tracking mechanism like Bugzilla and the developers look into it.

Frankly, I'm pretty sure the devs would look at this and determine it does not effect gameplay in any significant way. I think you could agree with this point.

====
The heart of it is that we are dealing with a 16-32 millisecond frame window... with a polling mechanism for controllers and on top of that some kind of algorithm to determine "valid" input.

Add to the fact that there is probably wireless latency involved and some kind of normalizing algorithm to smooth out input noise and you will have to come to some developer decisions on what is and is not "valid" input for your game design.

Controls in a shooter are tested to high heaven and back. You can be certain they were made aware of the feel of the sensitivity and concluded this was not a problem.

 

[Cruzader]

Has this been posted???

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5472955&postcount=345

If you pre-ordered through Amazon, you can change shipping to "Release-Date Delivery" for free is you have Prime. Just did it a while ago. If you havent, do it now!

Edit: No need to cancel your order, just go to modify shipping or something and you can change it like that.

Edit2: Not available in all states from what I've read at CAG.

Speaking of Amazon, but for the ppls that missed it. Really nice deal!

 

[sprocket]

quick someone unass this thread!

 

[Pristine_Condition]

My test was a simple request for a confirmation that I wasn't the only one who was observing the problem.

Your "test" was a joke. And not "confirmation" at all. All you did was solicit someone to agree with you.

And now I see you've seemingly upgraded this sham non-issue to a "problem" too. I guess we all could have predicted that, too.

Wanna know something? I've said it millions of times, but is no more appropriate than now: I like the way it ignores brief input, and I think it's a possibility that GG taylor-made it that way to compensate for twitchy fingered gaming.

So it was great then, and it's a "problem" now. Which is it?

:lol

 

[Alts]

For some reason, I knew Dirtbag wasn't going to like the demo when I saw his comments towards Kittonwy and someone who tried to defend Kittonwy.

Looks like he was just getting the engine warmed up!

You are ridiculous. Kittonwy types a certain way. Some may find it idiotic. Others may find it amusing. It has no bearing on the game.

 

[GodofWine]

I just "Flick Tested" COD5....and yes, you can flick so fast that it doesn't move..its tough, but I flick fast...Im a real mother flicker, take that sessler.

Lesson is, flicking doens't even work in crappy controlling games ( all other shooters other than KZ2 )

 

[Dirtbag]

For some reason, I knew Dirtbag wasn't going to like the demo when I saw his comments towards Kittonwy and someone who tried to defend Kittonwy.

Looks like he was just getting the engine warmed up!

so this is the part of the thread where they come at my credibility because the things I've said are hitting too close to home.

 

[SonComet]

Took me two play throughs to get the controls and aiming totally down. Now that that's done I can't wait to play more. Awesome game, very fun demo even though it was so short. The aiming was a little hard at first due to that momentum thing, but once you get used to it it becomes second nature. My first time through I could barely aim, and cooked a grenade to the point of killing myself, lol. My second time through the game felt amazing. Every game has a small learning curve.

 

[TheFatOne]

Speaking of Amazon, but for the ppls that missed it. Really nice deal!

The only reason I didn't order Killzone 2 from Amazon was because of no same day shipping. I think I will order it from Amazon now.

 

[Grayman]

I find killzone 2 playable but the aiming controls do feel worse than other games. It is not auto aim because in other games I could aim to random points more smoothly than in KZ.

I think GG would have been better to go with ultra precise stick controls but lagged the gun on large motions or increase the hip crosshair size with momentum to keep the weight feeling.


Anyways the highest difficulty will be unlocked from the start right?

 

[Cruzader]

I just "Flick Tested" COD5....and yes, you can flick so fast that it doesn't move..its tough, but I flick fast...Im a real mother flicker, take that sessler.

Lesson is, flicking doens't even work in crappy controlling games ( all other shooters other than KZ2 )

:lol :lol :lol

That made me laugh. Nice, you should test other crappy games.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

I just "Flick Tested" COD5....and yes, you can flick so fast that it doesn't move..its tough, but I flick fast...Im a real mother flicker, take that sessler.

Lesson is, flicking doens't even work in crappy controlling games ( all other shooters other than KZ2 )

For some reason, I don't think cakefoo is going to accept your "test" results...

:lol

 

[fistwell_old]

So it was great then, and it's a "problem" now. Which is it?

Yeah well i was DRUNK, ok? And now she won't stop calling me.

 

[sprocket]

i just flick tested super mario brothers using and old advantage and it failed !! my god the conspiracy goes back through the ages!!

Pac man by the way passed the flcik test with flying colors.

 

[cakefoo]

Cakefoo, I think the initial delay is just to account for weight in regards to realism. I think the point is that you are supposed to feel like you are carrying something weighty, and that it takes a little bit more effort or resistance/strength to move it. The analogue sticks in the game don't just act as a directional guide for something light as a feather (like in most shooters), but also as a strength metre. The harder/stronger/longer you hold them in whatever direction, the greater or faster the movement. Just like in real life.

I like the effect- as I said, it filters out excessive flinches and cuts down on the amount of over-compensating past your target like I tend to do early on with every new shooter- but I just don't agree with those of you who attribute it to the weighty feel they gave the controls. If you want my opinion, it's just what I described- I technical assist to filter out overcompensation. The negative side is that it results in a little latency, of course.

I would definitely say that too many posts have been wasted on this, and I'd really like to just file this one under unsolved mysteries for now. It's just that there's a lot of people who are demonstrating a lack of willingness to accept that the lag is not something I'm bursting out with glee adapting to.

And damn you sprocket stop mocking me!

 

[TheFatOne]

Yeah well i was DRUNK, ok? And now she won't stop calling me.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Yeah well i was DRUNK, ok? And now she won't stop calling me.

THIS is the best post in this thread now.

You, sir, won on the internets.

:lol :lol :lol