KILLZONE 2 - input lag now? if you want a reskinned COD4, go play WaW
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Zombie James
Banned
Full Recovery said:
Made this gif just to show you guys WEIGHT. lol input lag.
See how his Sevs knees buckle? and also look how it takes him a partial second steady his aim.
Perfect. I love the jumping in the game, too.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
Full Recovery said:
Made this gif just to show you guys WEIGHT. lol input lag.
See how Sevs knees buckle? and also look how it takes him a partial second steady his aim.
That's not what people are talking about, but the way it syncs up shows the impressive amount of effort that went into making the first person perspective feel real.
C- Warrior
Banned
So firstly, I don't have a PS3. But I just watched someone play the demo on youtube (HD/720p) and it looked pretty damn good. The hell are people complaining about? Movement didn't seem to fast or slow. Cover system seemed reasonable, the player had no problem using head shots and iron sight when appropriate etc.
Is there anything in the "feel" of the controls that are causing problems?
Is there anything in the "feel" of the controls that are causing problems?
Rapping Granny
Banned
VOOK said:So GAF something came in the mail today...
What SHOULD I do?
Create a youtube video, freezing every frame to see if input lag is in the final game.
We must know.
Zombie James
Banned
VOOK said:So GAF something came in the mail today...
What SHOULD I do?
Flick it.
polyh3dron
Banned
Mail it to me goddammit!VOOK said:So GAF something came in the mail today...
What SHOULD I do?
C- Warrior
Banned
Schrade said:
I actually wished more FPS games had more weight behind them. And people here think that's lag? You think the devs would spend 4+ years on a game and muck up due to fuckin "input lag?!?"
I really hope the game is released a bit early, because things will continue to derail at this pace. We got nothing to really talk about until the retail release; we have seen every screen pic and gif under the sun. Plus, the demo was a bit short, but I'm sure I will continue playing it off and on. Hopefully once we start spending more time playing the game instead of talking about it some of the madness will end...
Hellsing321
Member
VOOK said:
Schrade
Member
It feels REALLY different when coming from other console FPSes. But conversely, when you go from Killzone 2 to anything else, everything else feels like a goddamn toy. I'm not kidding here. Killzone 2's controls are not celebrated enough. If anything they have revolutionized the FPS genre with their controls. I wish more of the reviews would have mentioned that instead of glossed over them.C- Warrior said:
The feel of the guns, the weight of your body, the movements of your weapons and viewpoints... it just all adds up to a fantastic experience.
But then again that's only if you can allow yourself to enjoy the controls. If you are not willing to acclimate yourself to them you'll quickly get frustrated.
When I played the Killzone 2 multiplayer beta I seriously could not play a single FPS on a console because I am a mouse and keyboard player from the PC side of things. After about an hour or so of playing the MP beta I finally was comfortable with the controls. After many hours with the beta I actually got surprisingly good at them. There were always people better than me though so I never got too cocky
(mr_nothin I hate you)UnholySpectacle said:
Ok, I've posted this before but I'll post again to clear something up that people are just not understanding about Killzone 2's controls. People are confusing lag for actual control movement and aiming design choices.
How Killzone 2's controls differ from other shooters.
1.) Analogue sticks are my arms, not just my eyes.
This is the first one, the one that causes aim to overstep, or continue even after you've let go of the stick, or not move properly until you've pushed the sticks with some force.
Other shooters have the analogue stick as purely a directional guide. They are basically your eyes, and you generally get steady consistent aim throughout stick movement. You also move the weapon as if it weighed nothing. You feel no real resistance at all, and the analogue is used for nothing more than to direct your cursor.
How does Killzone 2 differ? For a start, the analogue stick is not just a directional guide, but instead a strength gauge. Imagine the analogue sticks are your arms, not just your eyes, and that what you are holding weighs something. The harder, longer or more forcefully you push the sticks, the more sudden, strong and long the movement in the game will be. The more delicate you press them, the more gentle the movement will be. Because strength is variable, the aim is too. If you apply gentle force in any direction at the same force throughout, it will move at a consistent slow speed. Push the stick hard and long in a direction however, and not only will it move in the same way, but perhaps a touch more than when you let go of the stick. The reason for this is that inertia and momentum kicks in and this is something that you have to account for. The analogues are essentially a strength metre, and the effects of that are replicated with a unique aim acceleration set up.
My tips on how to account for this system is basically to see the analogue for what it is, not just that aiming guide but also the strength gauge. Be delicate with movement and aim, just as you would be in real life. Jamming the analogue stick from one direction to the other will get you no where. It's essentially like swinging a rifle with all your might from one direction to another. Instead, be subtle, use the full range of the analogue sticks. You don't always have to hit the edges of the analogue sticks, sometimes delicate taps are all that is needed.
2.) The computer doesn't help me.
Another key difference that KZ2 has when compared to nearly all other console shooters is a lack of auto-aim. This game nearly has none. When in hip fire, it has a tiny amount of it, but in iron sights it has none. Either way, the game has exponentially less than any other console fps, so naturally it's going to be much harder to be pin point accurate, since for once you are expected to hit things with your complete personal skill, the computer isn't going to help you.
The way to get by this is simple practise. And, some of the tips I mentioned above in part 1. Imagine the entire range of the analogue sticks as a mouse mat. In the past with console shooters, all you had to do is is push in the right direction at whatever speed or strength (only thing that really makes a difference is your timing) and the computer generally does the rest. In KZ2 all the space between the centre point of the analogue stick and the edge the analogue stick hits is similar to mouse mat space. Use it wisely, but be sure to use all of it. Swinging a mouse to the edge of the mouse mat every time will get you no where right? Think of Killzone 2 the same way.
3.) These guns react realistically
The guns are going to act with a degree of realism, meaning, they do have recoil and kick back. They will sway, lug, snap, kick and shoot up when you over fire them. To overcome this you basically follow one very easy rule. Burst fire. Extremely short bursts at that. Keep them concise and short, and practise some patience/restraint and before you know it you'll be the harbinger of death to any who stand in your way.
Hip fire is actually very effective in this game, provided you do stick to burst fire. Use it for short to medium range kills. The same burst fire rule applies to Iron Sights too, of which I recommend for medium-long range kills.
4.) It's not just weight
Objects that have weight, are also affected by inertia and momentum. People sometimes forget that. Everything that does carry weight in Killzone 2 is affected by these two factors. As I've touched on in the other parts, this applies mainly to your rifle, but it also applies to other things such as grenade throwing (consider it's weight, gravity etc) and it also applies to running. The longer you run, the more constrained you get with turning, or at least with how sharp you can turn. KZ2 uses a similar system to Gears of War when you use the CNN cam run. You run with such force and speed that you turn in slower arches, so you almost have to plan your turns slightly ahead of time. Momentum kicks in and propels you in a forward direction to a heavy degree, so account for that when turning whilst you are running.
I think that's it for now. But to end it I'll just link to a video I took of me playing through the demo (posted it before). It just gives an example of how some of the tips I gave above come in to play together. Including delicacy of control/aiming precision, running properly, throwing grenades, using burst fire and so on.
Please watch it in High Quality.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUhuiJvBgaI
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Vustadumas
Banned
Full Recovery said:
Made this gif just to show you guys WEIGHT. lol input lag.
See how Sevs knees buckle? and also look how it takes him a partial second steady his aim.
Ok, I sort of understand what they were going for with the weight and inertia stuff. Cool idea, but in execution, it really does make the game feel a bit unresponsive. I played through the demo about 10x now, and I have gotten more used to the controls, but I still don't like it. Controls are about giving the player as close to 1:1 feedback as possible. When I hit the jump button, I want him to jump, not anticipate, then jump. Hell, why didn't they just make jumping a 2 button press then? One press to anticipate, and then another to jump.
Schrade said:It feels REALLY different when coming from other console FPSes. But conversely, when you go from Killzone 2 to anything else, everything else feels like a goddamn toy. I'm not kidding here. Killzone 2's controls are not celebrated enough. If anything they have revolutionized the FPS genre with their controls. I wish more of the reviews would have mentioned that instead of glossed over them.
The feel of the guns, the weight of your body, the movements of your weapons and viewpoints... it just all adds up to a fantastic experience.
But then again that's only if you can allow yourself to enjoy the controls. If you are not willing to acclimate yourself to them you'll quickly get frustrated.
When I played the Killzone 2 multiplayer beta I seriously could not play a single FPS on a console because I am a mouse and keyboard player from the PC side of things. After about an hour or so of playing the MP beta I finally was comfortable with the controls. After many hours with the beta I actually got surprisingly good at them. There were always people better than me though so I never got too cocky
Also coming to it from the perspective of someone who plays shooters on the PC whenever possible, Killzone 2's controls feel fantastic. In fact, I think they're the perfect FPS controls for dual analog gamepads. It may be the first console FPS to offer a control scheme and style that might actually feel better with a gamepad rather than a keyboard and mouse, and I can't believe I'm actually saying that - but it's true.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
nib95 said:
Agreed with all of that. This is the first FPS I've played that I didn't think would play better with a mouse. It feels like it's designed to be played on a controller. It would feel strange on a 1-1 control mechanism.
I had gotten used to hating playing FPS games on a console as they just felt wrong without a 1-1 aiming. I felt like everything I did was just approximating how mice moved. With KZ2, the feeling is so dissimilar to how a mouse behaves that I can't see it feeling right with a mouse.
And here is where I jump off the deep end....
Because of that, it completely changes the way I approach it. It almost feels like another genre alltogether to me, as I don't see it as being a poor approximation of a mouse since it doesn't feel like it's trying to emulate one. It's a fundamental change to the way I approach console FPS controls and it feels great to me.
God I'm glad you said that, I was expecting people to think I was taking crazy pills. You said what I was trying to say better than I was able to.
mentalfloss
Banned
nib95 said:
Now if someone could implement this same feel to a Bond game, I would instabuy. This sounds like the perfect blend of realism and a theatrical rollercoaster. It's too bad that I can't stomach the visual theme and storyline, otherwise I might have gotten a PS3.
While I do prefer the controls for immersion, I just wish it had a setting similar to the "Acceleration" slider in the SOCOM series. Basically keep the weight, but have a faster initial response - it's not an input lag issue but more like how a stiff damper works on a car, if that makes sense....
FirewalkR said:
Who the fuck does that?
Come on man this stuff was explained in developer diaries and developer interviews.
This has gotten out of control why are we discussing the pacing and gameplay style like there's some type of choice here. The game has gone gold and you don't patch the entire gamplay style of a title. You have two simple choices buy the game and adjust or don't by the fucking game.
Honestly the mods do need to see who continues this endless bickering derailing the entire thread.
nib95 said:
I think there is something else to be said about aim assist. If you have the crosshair very close to your target but not on top of it yet, switching to iron sight acts as an auto-aim. It's kinda similar to that of COD4, but as I said you have to bring the crosshair VERY close to the target to trigger it. It's barely noticeable. Give it a try.
FirewalkR said:
Not really, and I don't think they need to or should. The whole point is that this game isn't spoon feeding you and requires you to figure things out yourself to an extent. It's the same as Counter Strike Source for example. No one lets you know how to manage your aim to account for the recoil, you just kind of learn from practise.
I think in the multiplayer, this is also what will separate the better players from the worse one's. How people adapt or make use of the controls/aiming on offer. It's quite brilliant. Since the more effort and time you invest, the more you get out of it.
WHOAguitarninja said:
This x a million.
FirewalkR said:
They're explaining it through the controls and visuals themselves, in the context of the game. Anyone playing the game should naturally realize it controls the way it does because the characters have weight - hitting the jump button alone is enough to tell you that.
Full Recovery said:
Made this gif just to show you guys WEIGHT. lol input lag.
See how Sevs knees buckle? and also look how it takes him a partial second steady his aim.
Is this supposed to make the controls feel better?
why can't people not like the way the game feels?
worst pre-release ever.
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