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Koch donor network will give GOP $400M for 2018 *only if* ACA is repealed+tax reforms
- Thread starter Lime
- Start date
VendettaRed07
Member
In my experience people on this forum who actually have been trying to discuss this topic regardless of their history have been shamed, mocked, dog piled on, or characterized as as conspiracy theorist. Like, it shouldn't be relevant but it is a bit frustrating to see so many wonder how this is even legal after so many have regularly pretended like it's not something that even matters. Yes, money in politics can be used as bribery. I wish this was something we could agree on all the time.
And no not everyone who brings it up is angling "both sides, don't vote nothing matters". I'm going to just not mention Hillary or Bernie the best I can because it's bigger than them and I really don't want to get into that.. but some people, like myself, ran themselves into the ground trying to elect a certain person in the last year. But surprisingly when running out arguing why others should vote for them too, litigating which Scotus voted in favor of what and when and what a theoretical new justices would hopefully likely vote in favor of was a pretty hard thing to argue for thousands of times to thousands of different people. I'd like it not to take so much effort to convince people that "Yes, my chosen candidate will do whatever possible to stop practices like this from happening" next time. I'd like for all of us to agree how much of a problem it is. And that financial ethics rules are in place for a reason.
What the Koch's are doing here is beyond disgusting, is going to kill so many if they are successful, and it is a complete affront to democracy, and it is a political practice and culture we absolutely have to stop.. But I don't believe we are going to get there if we just up and pretend like this is something that only affects republicans and dismiss or downplay criticisms whenever they are aimed at people in the party internally like it doesn't matter or doesn't have any sort of influence. Because, if the question is "how is this possible, how is this allowed", honestly I think we see the process of how it became normalized every time someone see's their preferred candidate coming under fire for it.
RoninChaos
Member
lol did you even read the articles you linked?
And you ARE attempting to deflect blame. This is some second grade level shit. Cmon son.
RPGCrazied
Member
Buying votes. Lovely. Fuck these people.
You know that research that suggests that millennials are souring on democracy?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ally-are-surprisingly-approving-of-dictators/
or those polls suggesting millennials are more favorable to socialism than capitalism?
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.n...ent/467z1ta5ys/tabs_OP_Socialism_20160127.pdf
or this?
Stories like these are why. And if 'normal' democratic processes fail to correct for how the American political system seems to nowadays only be responsive to the influence of the top 1%, then young people are only going to shift further and further left and embrace more radical politics in order to effect change.
Hey that'd be great, but maybe they could start voting first.
LegendofJoe
Member
It raised their taxes to pay for healthcare.
RPGCrazied
Member
Trump this morning. He has no clue whats in the bill. He just knows it replaces Obamas, that he hates so much.
Ugh.
It's great because it repeals obamacare!!!! The bill could literally be giving Americans shit instead of healthcare access, and Trump would still say it was great as long as it repealed the ACA. Of that there can be no doubt.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
You know that research that suggests that millennials are souring on democracy?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ally-are-surprisingly-approving-of-dictators/
or those polls suggesting millennials are more favorable to socialism than capitalism?
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.n...ent/467z1ta5ys/tabs_OP_Socialism_20160127.pdf
or this?
Stories like these are why. And if 'normal' democratic processes fail to correct for how the American political system seems to nowadays only be responsive to the influence of the top 1%, then young people are only going to shift further and further left and embrace more radical politics in order to effect change.
Damn man, I was way on board with Bernie and still am in many ways, but if you would have asked me how the dems vs reps would fit on a graph like that, I would have thought the Low/Middle income earners would have way more support from dems than GOP.
E-Cat
Member
Still better than the Republican plan to make all the donor money dark.
Zombie James
Banned
This is literally money in exchange for killing people.
Please, find an example of Democrats being blackmailed by a donor threatening to withhold 400M worth of funds nationwide.
If you can, then we can talk about how this is a "both sides" problem. Until someone does, blaming "The Democrats" equally for the GOP being blackmailed by their own donor is dishonest and disingenuous.
Power will always have outsize influence. That has always been true and will always be true because of the way in which the world works. That's not to say that we can't and shouldn't do something (we absolutely can and absolutely should.) But the degree of the problem is very much not the same on both sides of the aisle.
I do wonder if the source of this push is actually part of McCain's refusal to play ball. (given that McCain/Feingold was his baby.)
This is America. Money = the clearest and most important form of speech. Also corporations are the only people that matter aside from the individually rich.
HazySaiyan
Banned
Fucking hell America, your system is broken beyond repair. It's parody.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Absolutely shameless. These guys give zero fucks.
If so, let us remind ourselves that it's because the replacement isn't poor-hating/conservative enough for him, not that it's too liberal.
Silver lining and all that, but still.
If so, let us remind ourselves that it's because the replacement isn't poor-hating/conservative enough for him, not that it's too liberal.
Silver lining and all that, but still.
Krauser Kat
Member
But she talked to Chase and Goldman Sachs for money!!!!
FunkyMunkey
Banned
the "but both sides" posts in this thread, a thread about $400,000,000 if republicans manage to kill people, are disingenuous, shameful, and pathetic. some of you guys who instantly revert to that argument are laughably misinformed and of course the loudest.
Phrozenflame500
Member
legal bribery strikes again
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
When the faucet stops giving water and the lights don't turn on, then people will be invested enough to do something. But in the meantime, we're just a very complacent people. Our voter turnout rates should tell you as much. There is no real spirit to participate politically at even the most basic level (voting).
legacyzero
Banned
Oh, NOW we want money out of politics? Lol
But seriously though, get this shit out of politics.
But seriously though, get this shit out of politics.
Frustrated_me
Member
((((((( SOROS )))))))))
You are correct, a large portion of the population is disinterested but to be fair, people are too busy making ends meat to bother to even take notice of such issues. Our workforce works longer hours than any other nation in the world. People get home to their families and are too exhausted to even check out their favorite TV programming, let alone the news.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
I doubt Collins or Murkowski waver on this. McCain and Paul tho... You should worry.
The Last Wizard
Member
Its never gonna stop dude.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
How much did the Koch brothers give to Hillary's campaign? How much did Wall Street give to her?
Glass Shark
Banned
Until we remove money from politics, nothing will ever get better. And money will never get removed from politics because it's so ingrained. GOP and Dems are equally bad on this. I just don't know how this will ever get fixed. We let the genie out of the bottle and it's never going back in.
Money will never get removed from politics because economic power should be a consideration in politics! If your state is dependent on an industry, it makes sense that your representatives would want to take those interests into account! Power has always has outsize influence on politics since the inception of it. This has never changed and will never changed because of the way people work.
Because of that, this should always be a question of degrees, not absolutes. And claiming that the GOP and Dems are "equally bad" when the Dems weren't being held hostage b\y their largest donors in '09 indicates that you might not understand the degrees! The issue is that until we can get rules holding the GOP in check, playing by them makes zero sense whatsoever because of the competitive advantage we provide them.
Nothing illegal about it at all.
I don't know, perhaps the miserable suffering poor makes a better consumer?
Because they want more. They are greedy assholes, and for greedy assholes, nothing is ever enough.
