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[Teknopathetic]

"This is terrifying.

Why are Publishers ok with this?"


Because you're buying their games regardless and there are countless aspiring developers itching to get a break into the industry that will take the place of employees who decide they don't want to deal with that any longer.

 

[M1ch04c4n0]

Many of these read as "Please understand"

As for the lazy part... is not the actual developers, but the people IN CHARGE of the project who put everybody in crunch mode. At least in my experience.

They drag you thought lots of useless meetings, where the single-minded guy in the team wastes an entire hour discussing some asinine thing, or if you are lucky, something with real insight, from where they leave the task of laying down the project methodology to some low level scrub (who has "many bright ideas", like, "saving your high scores!"), only to change minds mid-project, demand changes that requiere lots and lots of refactoring, modifying tools or even starting anew, and then complain the developers are lazy.

I wouldn't we surprise if we could track the origin of the myth and then discover it was the words spew by some high-up at some big name publisher (I'm looking at you, EA).

Oh, and the "You do this because is your passion!, you shouldn't complain about salary!" quote is real. Heard until the day I said I was going to leave.

 

[ClayKavalier]

Some of these are a ridiculous stretch. Is there really a misconception that all game devs are rich?

"Games are easy to make" is lame too. If anything recent(ish) games like Minecraft, LBP, and Mario Maker have educated a ton of people on how hard it is.

"Devs don't care about bugs." I think it's pretty obvious everyone would rather their game run perfectly if time and money weren't a concern.

I guess if you've backed yourself into a corner by starting a list you just commit.

 

[Shadoken]

The "game developers are rich" one is the only one that sounds a little far-fetched to me. All the rest I've seen and heard with my own eyes and ears.

I suppose you could say Publishers are rich is common misconception.
" Why wont X publisher fund my niche game , they are a billion dollar company it costs nothing!!! "

 

[kingofthedead45]

I'm not saying no one has ever expressed those opinions. You can come up with any absurd opinion and find someone who shares it. I just wouldn't call them "myths" because they're not perpetuated by a large percentage of the gaming audience.

broaden your horizons and take a look at some less regulated forums or comment threads, or hell go talk to people in the real world and seek their opinions. They'll express most of that. You don't know how many times I've heard from family and friends, go make a video game, you'll be rich.

 

[DevilFox]

I expected something else.. the only good point there that I, selfishly, never considered, is DLC keeping devs from layoffs. Everything else is far from being a common misconception, they're more like random, vocal rants of some ignorant dudes here and there.
There are way more interesting points to discuss that people often have a hard time to understand.

 

[Zabant]

I can't imagine anyone but the most fair-weather gamer would say half the stuff in that article.

Game Developers Are Lazy
Game Development Is Easy
A Good Idea Is All a Game Needs
All Game Developers Are Rich
Realistic Graphics Mean a Better Game

You'd have to be incredibly ignorant to think any of these things, which makes me think they aren't as 'Big' as that article is making them out to be.

 

[Plywood]

I don't know about you, but that sounds pretty great

I know right, I mean doesn't AC have ancient aliens?

 

[Ripenen]

That could have been worded better but I've also never understood this. If you're starting a company why locate in one of the most expensive places possible?

That's where you can find talent.

 

[ClayKavalier]

I can't imagine anyone but the most fair-weather gamer would say half the stuff in that article.



You'd have to be incredibly ignorant to think any of these things, which makes me think they aren't as 'Big' as that article is making them out to be.

"Top ten complaints I've noticed in comments sections a few times."

That's where you can find talent.

There's so many indie game devs who locate there though. You can't find a small team of capable people anywhere else in the country?

And then there's companies like Double Fine who I would think are established enough that they could move away from the city and still be able to hire people.

 

[Taker34]

Good article even though I knew most of this from my own experiences but it should remind people how complex game development is. It's a group effort after all - always.

Spoiler

I get mad at certain topics as well, regarding some well documented Mass Effect development issues. At least I can exactly criticize which part of the development process failed. Saying crap like lazy devs doesn't help anyone.

 

[singhr1]

So basically "10 Things Anyone Reasonable Would Already Know About Gaming".

Not entirely. You still constantly see people blaming devs for being lazy or having bad Q/A testing when they release a game that's not up to expectations or missing certain features.

If devs had an unlimited amount of time, yes they could add all the features they want to the game and polish it to a T. But, reality hits.. deadlines need to be made, and revenues need to be garnered. "Release it when it's ready" is not a proper argument in all cases where publishers and investors and constantly on your back trying to get you to finish a game, forcing you to work 60+ hours/week.

For example, yeah DICE could add Space Battles to Battlefront but it's clearly not something they could get out in a reasonable period of time because of the need to get the game out within the timeframe of the new movie. They set a goal with a specific scope and clearly having aircraft leave atmosphere is not something that fell within it. Maybe later/next time.

Same with always listening to community for how to make a game. There's a reason they are making games and many of us just play them.

Also, there is constant criticism for game devs for not being "pros" at their games with the logic being "You made the game, you should be the best." That's something crazy for some people to understand even though it might be simple to many of us. Just because you understand how the game works doesn't mean you have the pinpoint precision to dominate it.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Many of these read as "Please understand"

As for the lazy part... is not the actual developers, but the people IN CHARGE of the project who put everybody in crunch mode. At least in my experience.

They drag you thought lots of useless meetings, where the single-minded guy in the team wastes an entire hour discussing some asinine thing, or if you are lucky, something with real insight, from where they leave the task of laying down the project methodology to some low level scrub (who has "many bright ideas", like, "saving your high scores!"), only to change minds mid-project, demand changes that requiere lots and lots of refactoring, modifying tools or even starting anew, and then complain the developers are lazy.

I wouldn't we surprise if we could track the origin of the myth and then discover it was the words spew by some high-up at some big name publisher (I'm looking at you, EA).

Oh, and the "You do this because is your passion!, you shouldn't complain about salary!" quote is real. Heard until the day I said I was going to leave.

I get you, but what you're describing is exploitative/incompetent management, not necessarily a sign of laziness. Some projects end up under the guidance of someone who has grossly overestimated their ability to lead/design/manage/whatever other hats they wear as the 'creator' of a game. And that's how you get projects that get canned or moved to a new team. You can work really really really hard at something, but if you're not good at it then it doesn't matter.

Demonstrably lazy people don't make it in software. Someone will find you not pulling your weight and if they're above you they'll fire you. If they're below you they'll leave.

 

[Flintty]

Fantastic article. Kotaku nailing it this week.

 

[Shadoken]

You'd have to be incredibly ignorant to think any of these things, which makes me think they aren't as 'Big' as that article is making them out to be.

I have seen tons of " Devs are lazy comments " , even on GAF.

The others not so much, but there are still plenty of people who think that.

 

[fastmower]

Care to explain?

It just isn't very deeply researched and I would like more interviews with developers. It comes off as a puff piece.

 

[JordanN]

"This is terrifying.

Why are Publishers ok with this?"


Because you're buying their games regardless and there are countless aspiring developers itching to get a break into the industry that will take the place of employees who decide they don't want to deal with that any longer.

True, but Publishers being tone deaf to these working conditions should at least require a government investigation?

Sacrificing worker's health goes beyond greed and is just bordering on forced labor in my eyes.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Fantastic article. Kotaku nailing it this week.

Definitely was curious as to what a casual observer of the industry thought of video games. Thanks for filling that in Kotaku!

 

[Joseph Merrick]

of course programmers are lazy. if you're not lazy as a programmer you write way too many lines of bloated garbage code. only an expert slacker would know how to wring the most out of the least possible amount of typed characters.

this isn't a myth, it's fucking fact. SON.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

You'd have to be incredibly ignorant to think any of these things, which makes me think they aren't as 'Big' as that article is making them out to be.

"No true Scotsman"

 

[Herbspiceguy]

Some of these points are just things people say out of frustration because a game has bugs/issues/feels unfinished, rather than actual misconceptions.

 

[Pathfinder]

It just isn't very deeply researched and I would like more interviews with developers. It comes off as a fluff piece.

I don't feel the length of the article detracts or diminishes the points it is attempting to make. It gets the job done.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Every time you see someone say "I have a great idea for a game but I'm not going to tell anyone because someone might steal it," they're showing that they believe in this misconception.

I hope to fuck this isn't something you come across very often.

Also, stop posting on GAF and go work on Cosmic Star Heroine, you lazy mother fucker.

 

[Palette Swap]

Most of it is sound but the Day 1 DLC point is not very well presented as the argument is more one for DLC in general. I'm all for post-release support, but it's still weird to be told that content available on release date isn't available in the base game. Their argument doesn't really defend on-disc content or bullshit like From The Ashes in ME3. It conflates securing a steady stream of content (and revenue) with locking stuff out arbitrarily.

I hope to fuck this isn't something you come across very often.

Also, stop posting on GAF and go work on Cosmic Star Heroine, you lazy mother fucker.

I have way too much shit lined up right now. Take your time, Robert.

 

[Maddocks]

You will never get me to agree with day 1 dlc come on. Maybe day 30-45 dlc, but day 1 dlc always looks like a clear take a side story out and sell it type thing to me.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Misconceptions about development is a big reason most devs here are lurkers rather than active posters.

Oh, and the "You do this because is your passion!, you shouldn't complain about salary!" quote is real. Heard until the day I said I was going to leave.

Heard that plenty of times too. Not just limited to game development either, but a lot of tech/software development related work to anything entertainment related. My salary went up by a good 50% doing the same thing I was doing in that industry at a different software place in a different industry. My current salary now is easily 70-100% more than what I would likely be making in an equivalent position in the game industry.

 

[BY2K]

Crunch time is absolutely brutal.

BUT IT'S PERFECTLY NORMAL.

 

[Vinc]

Interesting article, but some of these 'misconceptions' aren't things I've ever seen complained about or even mentioned before reading this article:



These all seem tenuous at best in my opinion. I certainly don't think anyone believes that all developers are rich, nor that realistic visuals make for a better game.

You do see a lot of stuff like that out there though, but not very often on NeoGAF because it's moderated quite well.

 

[Flintty]

Definitely was curious as to what a casual observer of the industry thought of video games. Thanks for filling that in Kotaku!

As someone who knows nothing about game development I found it to be a fun and interesting insight. I wish I knew a dev so I could ask all kinds of questions...

 

[TemplaerDude]

This happens regularly, so I don't understand how it's a surprise.

No, I'm not sure where you would get the idea he's trying to brush aside criticisms against the industry as all misconceptions either, that seems like you're stretching just to make that fit.

I said nobody of relative sanity.

And how am I stretching any more than this article? It claims, right off the bat, that these are all "misconceptions" and then doesn't even present an argument for why, just a statement from a developer telling us how we're all wrong. Not a single argument or remark counter, just "Nope you're wrong here's why!" Fuck off. This article is shit.

 

[Neuromancer]

Misconception: All Game Developers Are Rich

It’s easy to get swept up in all the dolla dolla billz floating around in this industry. You read about games that cost millions to make. You hear about deals that net game developers billions. You look at the swank mansions that gaming YouTubers buy. It’s easy to think that every game developer is swimming in cash, but that’s not actually the case.

“I’m lucky,” Cliff Bleszinski, co-founder of Boss Key Productions, told me in an email. “I may have worked my butt off for years and made some great games with some great people, but Tim Sweeney was a very kind boss who treated his earliest employees very well. For every person like me that’s been successful there are hundreds of developers that are just getting by.”

"To disprove that game developers make a lot of money, we talked to one of the wealthiest game developers in the world, who assured us that not everyone is as rich as he is."

 

[ScatheZombie]

True, but Publishers being tone deaf to these working conditions should at least require a government investigation?

Sacrificing worker's health goes beyond greed and is just bordering on forced labor in my eyes.

The games industry has done a very good (and quiet) job of positioning themselves from a legal standpoint between the entertainment industry and the software industry in order to gain the exemptions for certain workplace regulations from both industries simultaneously.

The end result is that game developers have far less protections than other industries.

 

[ClayKavalier]

Every time you see someone say "I have a great idea for a game but I'm not going to tell anyone because someone might steal it," they're showing that they believe in this misconception.

I don't think that's necessarily true. I've had (what I think are) some cool app ideas and I own a few books on coding that I've flipped through and always mean to dig into.

I've never refused to discuss ideas, but I can see how someone would keep an idea under their hat until they're able to execute it. Doesn't mean they think it'll be an easy process.

 

[fastmower]

I don't feel the length of the article detracts or diminishes the points it is attempting to make. It gets the job done.

Thats fine, but I much prefer articles that go into depth regarding the subject and speak to the intelligence of the reader. Simple lists and short quotes just don't do it for me like they did when I was much younger.

 

[Pathfinder]

"To disprove that game developers make a lot of money, we talked to one of the wealthiest game developers in the world, who assured us that not everyone is as rich as he is."

He didn't start off as one of the wealthiest in the world. Just because he makes lots of money now doesn't make his past irrelevant.

Even he said he was one of the lucky ones.

 

[Zabant]

"No true Scotsman"

More like '1/100,000 scotsmen are ill-informed idiots, but let's make a big deal of their ramblings'

Does anyone really think Game Development Is Easy?

 

[Weltall Zero]

Every single one of them except the DLC one sound so alien to me, but I'm not unfamiliar with the inverse relationship between knowledge and outspokenness (or as we say in Spain: "ignorance is bold"), and I've actually read some of these even here on NeoGAF (particularly the "lazy devs" one).

This is terrifying.

I thought this was common knowledge since more than a decade? At least it is among software engineers, which is why neither I nor anyone else I know works at game dev (even though game dev is the reason I became a software engineer myself).

Why are Publishers ok with this?

Are you asking why are publishers OK with paying low wages and overworking their employees? Take a wild guess.

Hmmmmmmmmmm

... yes?

 

[TheSpoiler]

As someone who knows nothing about game development I found it to be a fun and interesting insight. I wish I knew a dev so I could ask all kinds of questions...

It would have been nice if they asked some devs too.

 

[plufim]

Look, there's day 1 DLC being made to keep programmers busy, and then there's day 1 DLC being advertised before the fucking game is even out.

Yes, to the developer it changes nothing. But it's just in such bad taste and clearly puts a lot of gamers off.

 

[Zabant]

It comes off as a puff piece.

Any article that starts with headline 'THE 10 BIGGEST X' is usually going to be fluff.

 

[rambis]

Lol at the response to this article in here.

Alot of you are just confirming what the devs are saying. Entitled armchair experts that think they know everything about everything and reply to someone explaining their grievances with obscenities and hand waving.

Like how in the hell would do you know what a particular developer may have seen. Or how often they see it. Its like none of you have been on redit or other internet shitholes. Anything gets said.

No wonder there is such a fuck you pay me relatuonship between developers/publishers and fans.

 

[fastmower]

Any article that starts with headline 'THE 10 BIGGEST X' is usually going to be fluff.

Absolutely true; but it doesn't have to be...

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Does anyone really think Game Development Is Easy?

You don't which is apparently the only opinion that matters.

 

[levious]

Look, there's day 1 DLC being made to keep programmers busy, and then there's day 1 DLC being advertised before the fucking game is even out.

Yes, to the developer it changes nothing. But it's just in such bad taste and clearly puts a lot of gamers off.

I will never be cool with day one dlc or cosmetic dlc replacing what were previously standard unlockables in many games.

And EA selling the PC version of Burnout Paradise Ultimate Box with no Big Surf island. Should we call them lazy or disengenious assholes?

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I have way too much shit lined up right now. Take your time, Robert.

Fuck everything else. It's one of the two things I've ever kickstarted. I need it!

 

[Zabant]

You don't which is apparently the only opinion that matters.

I'm glad we agree.

 

[BokehKing]

To me Day 1 DLC will always mean that they chose to remove some content from the game in order to sell as DLC.

or to get the game done on time....

 

[plufim]

I will never be cool with day one dlc or cosmetic dlc replacing what were previously standard unlockables in many games.

And EA selling the PC version of Burnout Paradise Ultimate Box with no Big Surf island. Should we call them lazy or disengenious assholes?

Oh I agree it sucks, but if they're gonna do it, sell us the game first.

As for Burnout, that pissed me off no end. Fucking EA

 

[PdotMichael]

Well, I must say I don't really care what happens with the people on the other side. I have enough to deal with all the buggy, unfinished and users exploitable games here.
Sorry for giving developers not enough love.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Im glad that this thread is falling right into what they said. Great work.