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[stufte]

What does that mean? And please, explain: What benefit to Nintendo does gain from that if they don't sell more copies of their stuff than they would otherwise. Nintendo is a business, not a charity.

And speed runners spending thousands of hours on one game hurts in another way: If they're spending that much time on an old game, are they actually buying new games?

Again, Nintendo is a business. It's ridiculous to think they'll put anything ahead of the bottom line

Because engagement of fans is an important way to keep your potential user base as large as it can be. It's not always about "advertise to fan A, receive money from fan A". Smart companies realize that fan communities are just as important to their bottom line than the non-fan who they're trying to target. Speed running brings brand awareness (for free!) that you just can't get anywhere else.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I wonder how long before this becomes a big court case. Seems inevitable with how many people are making money from streaming and making videos for games.

I don't think this could be made a court case. Youtube terms of services means everyone who makes videos on youtube has to agree to youtube having the right to take down videos for whatever reason. As log as those aren't contested, no legal action can be taken on anything else, because there's nothing to bring to court

 

[Ferrio]

Well, Mario doesn't owe his success to youtube or streamers.

Mario Maker's success might.

 

[Emulated Hype]

They're setting a dangerous precedent in targeting these communities.

 

[KarmaCow]

How does that hurt nintendo?

They aren't good consumers like these people.

 

[LeleSocho]

What does that mean? And please, explain: What benefit to Nintendo does gain from that if they don't sell more copies of their stuff than they would otherwise. Nintendo is a business, not a charity.

And speed runners spending thousands of hours on one game hurts in another way: If they're spending that much time on an old game, are they actually buying new games?

Again, Nintendo is a business. It's ridiculous to think they'll put anything ahead of the bottom line

Seems pretty straight forward. People who devote shitloads of time to one old game have way less time and need to spend lots of money on new games. Even if they still buy new games, they're likely to buy less if there focus is the one game they run

You can not be serious.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Just Nintendo being shitty as usual it seems.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Because engagement of fans is an important way to keep your potential user base as large as it can be. It's not always about "advertise to fan A, receive money from fan A". Smart companies realize that fan communities are just as important to their bottom line than the non-fan who they're trying to target. Speed running brings brand awareness (for free!) that you just can't get anywhere else.

Speed running is generally a niche community, and again, Nintendo really has enough support in that arena that going against a very specific subset of speedrunners who play almost exclusively on pirated software won't hurt them at all. And people will continue speed running Nintendo games regardless, so it won't really hurt Nintendo

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Oh boy.

 

[XenodudeX]

Mario needs all the help he can get in this day and age.

No it doesn't

 

[Aaronrules380]

You can not be serious.

Please, explain how I'm wrong then. If you really think situations like this hurt Nintendo, then I think you're being ridiculous. And the idea of a company not wanting people to keep using the same product forever, but rather keep on buying new products is not a particularly new or radical idea.

 

[Cmagus]

Mario Maker's success might.

Pretty much, while Mario Maker will sell well if they expect it to have a long life they really need to start embracing this type of stuff. It can't be understated how important stuff like youtube and streaming is especially with Mario Maker.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Agasin, I don't think this move was necessary. But it's not shooting themselves in the foot. It's really not doing anything to them at all. Any difference it makes, posiitve or negative, is going to be fairly insignificant to Nintendo

 

[stufte]

Speed running is generally a niche community, and again, Nintendo really has enough support in that arena that going against a very specific subset of speedrunners who play almost exclusively on pirated software won't hurt them at all. And people will continue speed running Nintendo games regardless, so it won't really hurt Nintendo

A niche community? Have you seen how much money AGDQ brings in? And you're right, it won't hurt Nintendo, which is why it's bizarre that they care to remove the youtube content to begin with.

 

[Panda Rin]

Seems pretty straight forward. People who devote shitloads of time to one old game have way less time and need to spend lots of money on new games. Even if they still buy new games, they're likely to buy less if there focus is the one game they run

It makes very little sense, considering there is only a handful of those who upload such content. The awareness and excitement generates more sales, and unsurprisingly, Nintendo is struggling in getting their brand out to newer audiences. Mario Maker could very well be a product generated from people's genuine interest in making "trolly" or TAS-like levels, and my guess is a significant amount of people will be interested in it because of those TAS videos they've seen.

Honestly, bring up any conversation with a gamer and reference Mario Maker, and they'll compare it to those TAS videos they've seen on Youtube. The stark similarities are clear.

 

[Holundrian]

It's actually things like these that make me want to support Nintendo less and less.
Especially when it comes to bringing their stuff to my younger relatives.
Just not worth it.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Please, explain how I'm wrong then. If you really think situations like this hurt Nintendo, then I think you're being ridiculous. And the idea of a company not wanting people to keep using the same product forever, but rather keep on buying new products is not a particularly new or radical idea.

You haven't adequately explained how clamping down on people who 'play the same game over and over again for years' undoes the hypothetical damage done by them not buying every new Nintendo game that comes out as a result of their degenerate behavior.

 

[Aaronrules380]

It makes very little sense, considering there is only a handful of those who upload such content. The awareness and excitement generates more sales, and unsurprisingly, Nintendo is struggling in getting their brand out to newer audiences. Mario Maker could very well be a product generated from people's genuine interest in making "trolly" or TAS-like levels, and my guess is a significant amount of people will be interested in it because of those TAS videos they've seen.

Do you have any evidence at all that TAS videos help generate sales? Especially given they're almost exclusively done on pirated software? And honestly, we have no idea how many people would rather use that software then buy Mario Maker for $60. I've seen plenty of people use the existence of such things as a reason not to get Mario Maker. Again, I think this move is pointless, but I also don't think it hurts Nintendo in any way. And consider this, even if those videos had generated interest, it's no longer necessary now that the game is about to come out. Might sound a bit cold and unethical, but that's business for you

 

[Aaronrules380]

You haven't adequately explained how clamping down on people who 'play the same game over and over again for years' undoes the hypothetical damage done by them not buying every new Nintendo game that comes out as a result of their degenerate behavior.

It doesn't. I never said it does. I was just contesting the idea that speedrunners are or should be considered Nintendo's most loyal and ardent fans. Also, the number of people this hurts is most likely ridiculously small regardless

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Especially given they're almost exclusively done on pirated software?

Source on this?

 

[Exploratory]

Nintendo still exists?

Seriously though they're the only company I know of that shits on its fan base so often its kind of insane.

 

[Anth0ny]

Rip kaizo mario

 

[Memorabilia]

Because engagement of fans is an important way to keep your potential user base as large as it can be. It's not always about "advertise to fan A, receive money from fan A". Smart companies realize that fan communities are just as important to their bottom line than the non-fan who they're trying to target. Speed running brings brand awareness (for free!) that you just can't get anywhere else.

This. It's an old concept called "consumer mindshare". Ideas like "community" or "fanbase" generally contribute to it. A healthy used games market, for example, is another angle since it provides easy/affordable access to a much wider consumer base, many of whom become part of the community/fanbase. Nowadays w/ the net being so prevalent there are a hundred + new ways to generate and foster consumer mindshare.

The Bottom line is Nintendo is completely out of touch.

Edit: Not surprised but it appears the Nintendo defense force is now trying to defend this type of counter-productive nonsense. Lol

 

[Cmagus]

Nintendo still exists?

Seriously though they're the only company I know of that shits on its fan base so often its kind of insane.

You can add Square Enix to that list as well.

 

[stufte]

Do you have any evidence at all that TAS videos help generate sales? Especially given they're almost exclusively done on pirated software? And honestly, we have no idea how many people would rather use that software then buy Mario Maker for $60. I've seen plenty of people use the existence of such things as a reason not to get Mario Maker. Again, I think this move is pointless, but I also don't think it hurts Nintendo in any way. And consider this, even if those videos had generated interest, it's no longer necessary now that the game is about to come out. Might sound a bit cold and unethical, but that's business for you

It's not as easy as you think for the average person to find and download the correct emulator/rom set. I have access to every nes/snes game ever made along with hundreds of the original carts and still want to get Mario Maker. Your argument is weak and you ask for evidence of something you haven't even presented evidence for the contrary.

It hurts Nintendo more to remove these videos than it helps, and that's (bad) business for you.

 

[TheSlySoul]

Rip kaizo mario

Also VIP and Brutal Mario videos probably.

 

[Vena]

A niche community? Have you seen how much money AGDQ brings in? And you're right, it won't hurt Nintendo, which is why it's bizarre that they care to remove the youtube content to begin with.

Of which Nintendo is a regular sponsor and donator.

 

[GustyGardens]

There's a lot of games that owe their success to youtubers and streamers, nintendo needs to get this through their heads.

While that's true, it's not like these people were playing Super Mario Maker. The game is promoting a hack, which would cause people to seek out and find the hack in order to experience it themselves. Nintendo are a bit stringent when it comes to their YouTube policy, but I can understand their issue with these.

If this were happening with Super Mario Maker, i'd be singing a different tune.

 

[Aaronrules380]

It's not as easy as you think for the average person to find and download the correct emulator/rom set. I have access to every nes/snes game ever made along with hundreds of the original carts and still want to get Mario Maker. Your argument is weak and you ask for evidence of something you haven't even presented evidence for the contrary.

It hurts Nintendo more to remove these videos than it helps, and that's (bad) business for you.

I highly doubt that, because I can't see this hurting Nintendo at all really, outside a small but vocal group of people who take these types of issues super seriously. Even if these levels did drum up interest, that can just as easily be done with actual Mario Maker levels now, which makes these videos redundant.

 

[Red Devil]

A niche community? Have you seen how much money AGDQ brings in? And you're right, it won't hurt Nintendo, which is why it's bizarre that they care to remove the youtube content to begin with.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they in AGDQ play the games legit with like a console and all? That's like a whole different thing from TAS speedruns.

 

[Nosgotham]

It's actually things like these that make me want to support Nintendo less and less.
Especially when it comes to bringing their stuff to my younger relatives.
Just not worth it.

How is it not worth it for you? Are you a person that uploads hacked versions of their games?

 

[Panda Rin]

Do you have any evidence at all that TAS videos help generate sales? Especially given they're almost exclusively done on pirated software? And honestly, we have no idea how many people would rather use that software then buy Mario Maker for $60. I've seen plenty of people use the existence of such things as a reason not to get Mario Maker. Again, I think this move is pointless, but I also don't think it hurts Nintendo in any way. And consider this, even if those videos had generated interest, it's no longer necessary now that the game is about to come out. Might sound a bit cold and unethical, but that's business for you

No, I'm not sure how I would even present such evidence other than giving general anecdotes and how popular and talked about the TAS runs have been. Looking at the bigger picture and also at similar events occurring over the past few years, Nintendo's internet presence is severely lacking, especially in an age where games have garnered financial success on Youtube alone.

 

[stufte]

I highly doubt that, because I can't see this hurting Nintendo at all really, outside a small but vocal group of people who take these types of issues super seriously. Even if these levels did drum up interest, that can just as easily be done with actual Mario Maker levels now, which makes these videos redundant.

And where on youtube will you be able to watch these videos?

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...aker-creation-videos-directly-to-youtube.aspx

Oh...

 

[Aaronrules380]

No, I'm not sure how I would even present such evidence other than giving general anecdotes and how popular and talked about the TAS runs have been. Looking at the bigger picture and also at similar events occurring over the past few years, Nintendo's internet presence is severely lacking, especially in an age where games have garnered financial success on Youtube alone.

Small indie games are not the same as Nintendo's. The comparison is ludicrous in my opinion. And Nintendo has a shitload of youtubers who cover their stuff. The idea that they don't is ridiculous. They also regularly collaborate with popular youtubers for stuff. The reason they act the way they do is honestly because they stand absolutely nothing to lose by doing so, so even minimal gains help them

 

[ugly]

Though shitty, I can kind of see why they'd go for these really popular channels that show Mario stuff considering Mario Maker's recent release. If some kid wants to search mario maker and ends up watching rom hacks, thats less sales for nintendos poor old wii u. I doubt they're going to go around taking down pokemon hacks or whatever. Its purely a business decision. They have to clear a path for themselves, and fair enough, thats just capitalism. Sure it disrupts fragments of community, but they're gonna keep buying if they had any intention of it anyway. In terms of sales the damage is going to be negligible so long as the kiddies see premium wii u advertisements instead

 

[Aaronrules380]

And where on youtube will you be able to watch these videos?

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...aker-creation-videos-directly-to-youtube.aspx

Oh...

The same way people upload videos for pretty much every other game Nintendo does without the feature: By using their own setup and direct feed from the TV. Which is what most popular makers do anyways

 

[GustyGardens]

And where on youtube will you be able to watch these videos?

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...aker-creation-videos-directly-to-youtube.aspx

Oh...

I would imagine they would watch it the same way they watch Super Smash Bros., Mario Kart 8, Splatoon, Animal Crossing: New Leaf, Fire Emblem, New Super Mario Bros. U, Super Mario 3D World, The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker HD, Nintendoland, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze and so on.

Youtube functionality would be a nice feature to have, but let's not pretend that the platform will be devoid of Super Mario Maker videos.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I would imagine they would watch it the same way they watch Super Smash Bros., Mario Kart 8, Splatoon, Animal Crossing: New Leaf, Fire Emblem, New Super Mario Bros. U, Super Mario 3D World, The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker HD, Nintendoland, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze and so on.

Youtube functionality would be a nice feature to have, but let's not pretend that the platform will be devoid of Super Mario Maker videos.

Yeah. I mean, there are already several unofficial mario maker videos with hundreds of thousands of views

 

[Red Devil]

I would imagine they would watch it the same way they watch Super Smash Bros., Mario Kart 8, Splatoon, Animal Crossing: New Leaf, Fire Emblem, New Super Mario Bros. U, Super Mario 3D World, The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker HD, Nintendoland, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze and so on.

Youtube functionality would be a nice feature to have, but let's not pretend that the platform will be devoid of Super Mario Maker videos.

Indeed. They have existed for several days now.

 

[stufte]

I would imagine they would watch it the same way they watch Super Smash Bros., Mario Kart 8, Splatoon, Animal Crossing: New Leaf, Fire Emblem, New Super Mario Bros. U, Super Mario 3D World, The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker HD, Nintendoland, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze and so on.

Youtube functionality would be a nice feature to have, but let's not pretend that the platform will be devoid of Super Mario Maker videos.

Fair enough, though my initial argument still stands: This move hurts Nintendo more than it helps them.

 

[SegaShack]

I mean, on one hand it sucks for the YouTubers getting hit by this, but on the other hand, Nintendo is fully within their rights to do this. I don't think SMW hacks were ever legal, since they're manipulating a copyrighted product without permission.

This. Too many people act like this stuff is their own property.

 

[Suikoguy]

This. Too many people act like this stuff is their own property.

It's not as clear as you make it out to be.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Do you have any evidence at all that TAS videos help generate sales? Especially given they're almost exclusively done on pirated software? And honestly, we have no idea how many people would rather use that software then buy Mario Maker for $60. I've seen plenty of people use the existence of such things as a reason not to get Mario Maker. Again, I think this move is pointless, but I also don't think it hurts Nintendo in any way. And consider this, even if those videos had generated interest, it's no longer necessary now that the game is about to come out. Might sound a bit cold and unethical, but that's business for you

Do you actually need evidence that TAS videos help generate sales? Can you even chart that?

Many years ago FOX used to actively campaign to shut down any and all fansites for The Simpsons. Paramount did the same for Star Trek. They claimed it was "copyright infringement."

And, technically, they were right. These fans were using names, imagery, and more, all without permission. That constitutes the literal legal definition for a breach of copyright.

This was years before the "geek merchandising revolution." All these fans wanted to do was have a place to congregate with like-minded individuals, to discuss shared topics, and to stay up to date with news on their favorite TV show.

My point here is you can't choose your fanbase. You can't jerk your fanbase around on a leash. Eventually FOX and Paramount realized that it was better to embrace these people than try to control them. It doesn't matter if there's a direct correlation between (XYZ) thing and sales, because fandom is infectious. One fan becomes two fans becomes four fans.

Four fans fill out a wiki. Now you've made 16 fans. Etc.

Nintendo is taking something that doesn't actually hurt anyone and is demonizing it. They are being outlandish and controlling. They are creating negativity and pushing away the very same people who would support them. And worst of all, they are developing a reputation for this negativity.

If you can't see that that's a bad thing, then... I don't even know what else to say, really.

 

[SmokedMeat]

At over one million views this guy is probably getting ad money, and Nintendo wants their cut.

 

[Tomohawk]

I'm sharpening my pitchfork for the day nintendo decides to hit smash tournament vods.

 

[Vena]

I'm sharpening my pitchfork for the day nintendo decides to hit smash tournament vods.

Bill would have to get fired first (again), and they have nothing to do with TAS/emulators.

 

[collige]

At over one million views this guy is probably getting ad money, and Nintendo wants their cut.

If that were the case, they could just make a claim. Instead, they tell him to take down the vid entirely.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

Seems pretty straight forward. People who devote shitloads of time to one old game have way less time and need to spend lots of money on new games. Even if they still buy new games, they're likely to buy less if there focus is the one game they run

But does taking down videos of said TAS'ing remedy this? Nevermind that marathons like Games Done Quick manage to extract millions from these gamers' supposedly bare pockets on a biannual basis and arguably build a ton of brand awareness and publicity, specifically how does taking down youtube videos of TAS'ing eliminate TAS'ing and incentivize spending on new games?

 

[Salbug]

I'll be pissed if raocow gets hit by this. :| This is seriously not cool Nintendo.

 

[Briarios]

If these guys weren't making money off of Nintendo's IP, I'd be more on their side ... but, since they're profiting from someone else's work without compensation -- and doing it illegally for that matter, I don't really have an issue with this.