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[Theanine3D]

How does this come close to combating piracy?

Someone please answer this question.

It doesn't. Not even in the slightest.

 

[Mory Dunz]

Is it any video or monetized ones?

 

[Exile20]

This is a cool, well-thought out, and not at all entirely snarky way to reply to this.

I think the general thing to keep in mind here is that these are fans. And, in a weird way, this is how they are celebrating one of their favorite games: by deconstructing it byte-by-byte and creating something objectively perfect from it (in this case, the "perfect" speed run -- one so precise, only a computer could execute it).

In a way, it's almost like how a mechanic knows how every single component of an engine works -- because they've take one apart and put it back together again. Sometimes that's for maintenance reasons, but sometimes that's just because they think it's fun to modify cars.

That is at the heart of why this is such a problem. They are punishing fans for being fans.

Sure, this guy was making money from this video, but I'm willing to bet that the money he made wasn't even 0.1% of what Nintendo just made off of Amiibos this year. They are antagonizing people that don't deserve it. They are making a spectacle out of something that shouldn't even matter to them.

That's a big fucking problem.

First things for it their right. Outside of that how do you justify what is okay? I understand this will wreck the youtube TAS community and it is sad but you can't say I will make less than you off your copyright material so it is okay. That is not a good justification for using someone's work.

Would I rather Nintendo not do this? Yes. But I am not Nintendo and whatever reason they have, whether it is confusion for the users on youtube, protecting thier ips(which is the most important thing they have) or they just want a cut. Who knows.

Your analogy doesn't make sense either. I am not sure what you are trying to say.

 

[TheSlySoul]

Wow, so i can take anything and make money off of it once I put a lot of work into it? Good to know.

Music industry does it all the time.
Original:
https://youtu.be/VxD_7S7bl8k
Beyonce:
https://youtu.be/N8t078YDojM

 

[Suikoguy]

Can this be applied here? None of the code is theirs.

Is the code running when you watch the video?

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

First things for it their right. Outside of that how do you justify what is okay? I understand this will wreck the youtube TAS community and it is sad but you can't say I will make less than you off your copyright material so it is okay. That is not a good justification for using someone's work.

Would I rather Nintendo not do this? Yes. But I am not Nintendo and whatever reason they have, whether it is confusion for the users on youtube, protecting thier ips(which is the most important thing they have) or they just want a cut. Who knows.

Your analogy doesn't make sense either. I am not sure what you are trying to say.

There's a lot of stuff out there that by the strictest legal definition is "wrong." There's more than a few threads right here on NeoGAF that are technically illegal, but they are allowed to exist because there's no point in stirring the pot. Takes too much effort, and for a result that would be a largely negative reflection on the person issuing the legal claim.

Patent trolls have a legal right to all kinds of stupid shit. Is that okay, too? Because that's not too far off from what Nintendo's doing here.

 

[SonyToo!™]

You think copyright policies only exist on Google?

Anyway I see where Nintendo is coming from but ye it sucks for the community.

I'm not even sure what alternatives are remaining but they likely aren't enforced as much as Google / YT who has a bad rep for content ID.

As YT / Twitch grow bigger more and more big companies are wanting to get in on the act for a slice of the pie, a less popular streaming service would escape their attention because it's not worth bothering about, just like YT was before Google bought them.

 

[Exile20]

Music industry does it all the time.
Original:
https://youtu.be/VxD_7S7bl8k
Beyonce:
https://youtu.be/N8t078YDojM

I am sure there are examples of the opposite in the music industry also. It is up to the copyright holder in the end.

Is the code running when you watch the video?

ye

There's a lot of stuff out there that by the strictest legal definition is "wrong." There's more than a few threads right here on NeoGAF that are technically illegal, but they are allowed to exist because there's no point in stirring the pot. Takes too much effort, and for a result that would be a largely negative reflection on the person issuing the legal claim.

Patent trolls have a legal right to all kinds of stupid shit. Is that okay, too? Because that's not too far off from what Nintendo's doing here.

Nintendo is trolling people with their patents that they use everday? Lol.

I'm not even sure what alternatives are remaining but they likely aren't enforced as much as Google / YT who has a bad rep for content ID.

As YT / Twitch grow bigger more and more big companies are wanting to get in on the act for a slice of the pie, a less popular streaming service would escape their attention because it's not worth bothering about, just like YT was before Google bought them.

And the cycle continues.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Nintendo is trolling people with their patents that they use everday? Lol.

I guess I should've picked up that you weren't really understanding a single thing I was saying.

I think we're done here.

 

[levyjl1988]

Glad I'm not getting Super Mario Maker.

 

[TheSlySoul]

I'm not even sure what alternatives are remaining but they likely aren't enforced as much as Google / YT who has a bad rep for content ID.

Pretty much what will happen is new people will start making content from publishers who understand YT like EA/MS. Those that are overprotective of their IPs (Konami) do not have to worry about people making videos about their games ever again. More League of Legends/Minecraft!
Edit: Except Jim Sterling becuase he is a boss. PULL THE LEVER.

Very true, but atleast we get a reprieve of a year or 2.

The funny thing that it tends to be either Japan or terrible game creators doing it.

 

[SonyToo!™]

And the cycle continues.

Very true, but atleast we get a reprieve of a year or 2.

 

[Panda Rin]

Nintendo is trolling people with their patents own that they use everday? Lol.

You're missing the point. Don't think anyone is arguing against the legality of Nintendo's decision, and it's pretty clear they should protect their own IP, but it comes off as petty to completely rid of content bred from a love of Nintendo's games. If they claimed the videos and de-monetized them, this wouldn't be an issue. The fact they didn't is an odd decision and is the cause of the commotion in this thread.

 

[Exile20]

I guess I should've picked up that you weren't really understanding a single thing I was saying.

I think we're done here.

Dude you are not making any sense.

You are comparing Nintendo to mechanics that do things for fun. So Nintendo has zero business/financial reason at all?

You are comparing them to Patent trolls which do nothing but hold patents and don't use them. Nintendo uses their ips everyday, they only came about because they are releasing their new game in a few days.

Are you trying to say there is a grey area and it should be okay? Yes Nintendo could easily look the other way but I guess this new game SMM seems to be the impetus for all of this. Some how they see these videos as threats to the game.

You're missing the point. Don't think anyone is arguing against the legality of Nintendo's decision, and it's pretty clear they should protect their own IP, but it comes off as petty to completely rid of content bred from a love of Nintendo's games. If they claimed the videos and de-monetized them, this wouldn't be an issue. The fact they didn't is an odd decision and is the cause of the commotion in this thread.

I agree with this but for some reason they probably see these TAS as a threat to the profit of SMM whether it be public confusion or whatever.

 

[Red Devil]

You're missing the point. Don't think anyone is arguing against the legality of Nintendo's decision, and it's pretty clear they should protect their own IP, but it comes off as petty to completely rid of content bred from a love of Nintendo's games. If they claimed the videos and de-monetized them, this wouldn't be an issue. The fact they didn't is an odd decision and is the cause of the commotion in this thread.

Well, not on this thread but there was an outrage for claiming monetized videos a while back...

 

[Panda Rin]

Well, not on this thread but there was an outrage for claiming monetized videos a while back...

Well, shit.

 

[TheSlySoul]

Well, shit.

They often took free videos and put ads on it, taking 100% funds.
It is funny people use the "THEY SHOULD NOT MAKE MONEY ON ANOTHER COMPANIES IP" in arguments ignoring this fact.
Now they are straight up taking them down.

Nintendo have to have that 1 dollar, took the employee 1 hour to file the claim.

 

[SonyToo!™]

The funny trned that it tends to be either Japan or terrible game creators doing it.

And that's the problem since it's the Japanese who tend to make the best single player arcade games, the west's forte is MP which by their nature rely on servers and tend to have a limited lifespan and thus vids don't rely on grey area emulation like retro SP games do..

 

[Red Devil]

They often took free videos and put ads on it, taking 100% funds.

That or claiming the money from people who actually monetized videos.

 

[TheSlySoul]

And that's the problem since it's the Japanese who tend to make the best single player arcade games, the west's forte is MP which by their nature rely on servers and tend to have a limited lifespan and thus vids don't rely on grey area emulation like retro SP games do..

As another poster stated, Sega tried the stunt for Shining Force. Now they seem to learn their lesson since you can easily find Project Mirai PVs on YouTube.
Capcom also is trying to promote SFV streams. Sony gave free copies of Until Dawn to popular channels.

Some Japanese publishers are understanding, but there is still resistance.

 

[PreFire]

Nintendo does this with any Nintendo related video with lots of views. It doesn't matter if they're speed runs or emulated. I remember that Angry Joe thread about his Nintendo video being pulled by them and he had a shitstorm and the thread itself had lots of crazy posts.

Can you post honest reviews of Nintendo's products on YouTube (specifically someone with a huge following) without Nintendo pulling them down? And what if they are negative?

Or do you have to be part of Nintendo's YouTube service program?

 

[Vena]

Nintendo does this with any Nintendo related video with lots of views. It doesn't matter if they're speed runs or emulated. I remember that Angry Joe thread about his Nintendo video being pulled by them and he had a shitstorm and the thread itself had lots of crazy posts.

Can you post honest reviews of Nintendo's products on YouTube (specifically someone with a huge following) without Nintendo pulling them down? And what if they are negative?

Or do you have to be part of Nintendo's YouTube service program?

Joe pulled his videos down on his own, they were just Content ID'ed as per usual. Nintendo doesn't remove review videos or fan videos or general content videos of any kind unless they are considered potential piracy or breaking of NDA. I don't think Nintendo has ever touched completely original fan creations that star their characters (as one can tell by all the various animations of Mario and Link that continue to exist and be made ad nauseum), they only target things made directly using their game assets (that were not specifically approved or if you're not a YTber with carte-blanche treatment from NoA).

 

[Teeth]

Music industry does it all the time.
Original:
https://youtu.be/VxD_7S7bl8k
Beyonce:
https://youtu.be/N8t078YDojM

Pretty terrible example since Major Lazer co-produced the Beyonce track and got full songwriting credits (which means they got royalties). Major Lazer likely got rich off this track.

 

[7DollarHagane]

Why do people keep spouting this bullshit.

It's not illegal to dump a copy of a game you own.

It's not illegal to reverse engineer the code and figure out how to edit the data files that the game reads to create new levels.

It's not illegal to load those data files using the dump of the copy you own in an emulator.

There is no 'requirement' to pirate a game here.

I don't suspect this is actually true?

Why do companies like squareenix threaten legal action against certain game translation efforts? If dumping and modifying the game is legal surely this wouldn't be possible for them?

They did this for final fantasy type zero and for dragon quest 7 ds recently.

I'm not saying I agree with this law but it seems like the same thing would apply here, technically.

Nintendo should leave all this shit alone obviously but I can understand why their legal department is so defensive of their properties. I can't really be mad at them for doing so.

 

[JPS Kai]

My two cents is that Nintendo doesn't want to run into any issues of brand identity with people seeing these custom levels and thinking that Super Mario Maker has the tools to create the same fidelity of levels.

that's not to say that SMM won't have some amazing user generated content.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Why do companies like squareenix threaten legal action against certain game translation efforts?

The ones that get shut down get shut down because they are distributing all or part of the game along with the translation. There are many, MANY fan translations which do not get shut down because they aren't redistributing copyrighted material.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I don't suspect this is actually true?

Why do companies like squareenix threaten legal action against certain game translation efforts? If dumping and modifying the game is legal surely this wouldn't be possible for them?

They did this for final fantasy type zero and for dragon quest 7 ds recently.

I'm not saying I agree with this law but it seems like the same thing would apply here, technically.

Nintendo should leave all this shit alone obviously but I can understand why their legal department is so defensive of their properties. I can't really be mad at them for doing so.

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act definitely makes dumping and modifying ROMs technically illegal. PBS Idea Channel actually did an episode about a related subject very recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct5fjHC7tL8

As it relates to this conversation, Farmers have found that if they buy modern tractors, they aren't user-serviceable. Old tractors could repaired by whoever had the knowledge and the tools, but since newer tractors contain computers with copyrighted software embedded in them, they can only be serviced by licensed technicians. Modifying, reverse-engineering or otherwise circumventing that software (so you can fix the tractor you just bought without lugging it 90 miles in to town to an overpriced specialist) is considered a breach of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.

The way the video makes it sound, the farmer's association (or whoever) is actually in a legal battle right now to get some kind of exemption so these farmers don't have to worry about breaking the law just because they had to replace a component inside their tractor.

By that definition, ROM hacks are definitely a breach of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, as is dumping them.

 

[loki 16]

Nintendo understands that its fans are the reason for its success, and we are always happy to see people share their passion for Nintendo’s games.

Why do you like to lie nintendo?

 

[akidnamededdy]

Come on, Nintendo. You're getting almost as bad as Disney as far as this copyright shit is concerned.

Nintendo could have every video where anyone says the word "Mario" pulled from YouTube and they'd still have a long way to go to be as bad as Disney when it comes to copyright issues.

 

[wheeplash]

Nin-what? Can you eat it?

 

[patapuf]

Some publishers pay youtubers to make video content of their IP's, others like nintendo prefer to actively hinder the community that likes their games.

It's not like Nintendo needs presence on social media anyway, they are doing so well.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

.

And speed runners spending thousands of hours on one game hurts in another way: If they're spending that much time on an old game, are they actually buying new games?

Oh man theres no way this couldnt have been written without tongue in cheek but amazing paragraph nonetheless

 

[sciencerob]

There's a lot of stuff out there that by the strictest legal definition is "wrong." There's more than a few threads right here on NeoGAF that are technically illegal, but they are allowed to exist because there's no point in stirring the pot. Takes too much effort, and for a result that would be a largely negative reflection on the person issuing the legal claim.

Patent trolls have a legal right to all kinds of stupid shit. Is that okay, too? Because that's not too far off from what Nintendo's doing here.

You're really comparing nintendo to patent trolls? Because the the two are not even remotely the same.

 

[spekkeh]

These people are making money off of pirating Nintendo's work, I can see why Nintendo does this.

The thing with the Internet is that it's a bit of a hydra, so whether it's smart is another thing, but I don't particularly feel for the youtubers.

 

[Holundrian]

How is it not worth it for you? Are you a person that uploads hacked versions of their games?

It's about them being backwards and it adding up.
Region locking, shitty account management system, not packing in recharge cables, forcing events to cancel part of their programs, this, etc, etc.

As for what I lost here it's video content. I happen to enjoy a lot of that stuff, I'm also an avid AGDQ viewer.

All of that just makes my whole experience with them not really nice. So why would I try to evangelize them to anyone? I mean I already fucking hate myself for buying a 3ds and in that way support their region locking.
I can't even say it was worth it since importing has become a real pain for me.

So in that spirit whatever Nintendo. I don't really care anymore congrats!

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

You're really comparing nintendo to patent trolls? Because the the two are not even remotely the same.

You're right, abusing control for monetary gain and to dissuade others from doing something relatively harmless is completely different.

 

[Metal B]

You're right, abusing control for monetary gain and to dissuade others from doing something relatively harmless is completely different.

With this definition almost everything is a patent troll. If a government creates a luxury tax for a slightly harmful product to make it less attractive to buy, you could use the definition.

Also it's also only 'harmless' from your perspective. Nintendo has another opinion on that and they have all the rights to make those claims. If it's smart, this is another question, but the act itself is completely their right.

 

[BGBW]

For those saying this is good promotion, promotion for what? It's a Mario hack.

I agree that it's a little sad that fun videos are being clamped down on but give a little thought before you regurgitate the same angry response in all of these threads.

 

[Auto-Reply]

I will never understand Nintendo in this regard.

 

[Septimius]

I agree with this but for some reason they probably see these TAS as a threat to the profit of SMM whether it be public confusion or whatever.

While the irony is that SMM is likely helped hugely along in popularity by ROM-hacks.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Also it's also only 'harmless' from your perspective. Nintendo has another opinion on that and they have all the rights to make those claims. If it's smart, this is another question, but the act itself is completely their right.

Great job summing up this whole discussion. Should I run another lap around this track and tell you that just because Nintendo has a legal right doesn't mean it's actually okay?

 

[Metal B]

Great job summing up this whole discussion. Should I run another lap around this track and tell you that just because Nintendo has a legal right doesn't mean it's actually okay?

They also don't abuse any system, like some patent troll would do. Even if the ROM are completely legally created, those are meant for private use only. If you upload videos on the Internet, you're going public. No matter how you turn and twist it, those uploaders act from a dark gray area. If companies allow this kind of videos, that almost always because for image reasons, getting marketing support or the fear of a shitstorm.

Not getting flagged for using copyright material is privilege. A silent understanding between two parities. Only Nintendo doesn't wanna play this game and there is nothing anybody can do (at the moment).

 

[dickgumshoe]

Instead of bitching about Nintendo you should start campaigning to change the IP laws.

 

[Kolx]

This is fuckin stupid. What would they gain by doing this? They're pushing people away from their IPs :/

 

[SURGEdude]

I'll just echo many of the comments and say that Nintendo has the right to do this, but their YouTube policies are destructive to their brand. I'd also venture to suggest that right now they could use the hype of YouTubers to publicize their great library which many gamers simply aren't aware of.

 

[purdobol]

They really should let go at this point.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

Remember that time when SEGA copyright took down every single Shining Force video in order for some shitty new Shining Force game to be the only results you can find? Remember how well that worked? I can't help but think this is a similar short sighted marketing move. "Get rid of the Mario romhacks showing there is a more versatile (more possibilities), much harder to use (no testing levels on the fly also easy to glitch levels), free Mario maker out there...they must not know". Sorry the horse has bolted and all you've managed to do is just piss off some of your biggest fans.

That said Nicovideo was hit by TAS takedowns some months ago as we know the Japanese side is the side pushing for this NCP stuff so maybe the fax finally came through.

But antipiracy department just makes me laugh. I suppose that is so they can be "see it wasn't just marketing like Shining Force, we had a moral imperative to protect our IP" (which might be true in some ways but why not raid those SNES cartridge repro factories as some people don't understand what repros are and think they are official products).

Funny how they've utilized Game Grumps at this point and even they've played through rom hacks.

I seem to remember treehouse live said the word romhack live on stream which I found interesting.

Edit: Except Jim Sterling becuase he is a boss. PULL THE LEVER.

It is hit the lever.

 

[GamerJM]

Even if this is legal, people part of the partnership still violated the code of conduct, so I think it's fair.

That being said, it's dumb. I don't think it'll do anything for Nintendo but create more animosity with their fans. Also, more than anything it's just pointless for them, and whatever resources are spent on YouTube takedowns would probably be more effective elsewhere.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

They also don't abuse any system, like some patent troll would do. Even if the ROM are completely legally created, those are meant for private use only. If you upload videos on the Internet, you're going public. No matter how you turn and twist it, those uploaders act from a dark gray area. If companies allow this kind of videos, that almost always because for image reasons, getting marketing support or the fear of a shitstorm.

Not getting flagged for using copyright material is privilege. A silent understanding between two parities. Only Nintendo doesn't wanna play this game and there is nothing anybody can do (at the moment).

Listen, it's 2015. A lot of things have changed in the last ten years, especially in the video space. This whole "not getting flagged is a privilege" schtick? It's getting to be antiquated thinking.

"Playing videogames in an entertaining way" is a job for some people, a job that's turning in to a career. And it's becoming faster and easier than ever before for this to happen. It used to be that you needed a good PC, expensive capture hardware, and the knowledge of how to work half a dozen pieces of software for this stuff to happen. Now you push the "Share" button on your game console and it's just there.

Going along with this kind of shit, or pretending there's nothing that can be done, is exactly how you let the old cobwebs hold us back. Even when it looks like you're powerless, you still have a fucking voice.

Even if it's just posting in this thread, at least I'm using mine.

 

[FreedomFighter]

I think with the release of SMM, there could be a case of that game promoting ROM hacks instead of the other way around. I'll miss Asshole Mario is that gets taken down but I'm not opposed to this move at all.

Nintendo coming in with a concept 10 years too late and is now trying to bully everyone else out of the scene ?

I really don't like this kind of attitude they have towards romhackers (and speedrunners/youtubers) communities. Their PR and little selfish "IT'S EITHER US OR NOTHING" attitude really sucks

Nintendo is the original Mario Maker. How are they coming up with the concept of making and remaking Mario levels late?