GhostTrick
Banned
Which then rise the price question. R9 290x is so cheap nowadays because it's a delisted product, replaced by the 400 dollars R9 390x. So if we're talking about that kind of performance, that's where the price goes.
Kotaku: Sony is working on a PS4.5; briefing devs on plans for a more powerful PS4
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Which then rise the price question. R9 290x is so cheap nowadays because it's a delisted product, replaced by the 400 dollars R9 390x. So if we're talking about that kind of performance, that's where the price goes.
LOL @ those who want a 4K upscaler console. Who exactly wants such a console in 2016 when a damn TV can do 4K upscaling already?
At least accept that PS 4.5 is a real deal. It may not be usual 8x upgrade, but it's 4x upgrade which can drive PSVR 2 just fine when it's out in 2018.
At least accept that PS 4.5 is a real deal. It may not be usual 8x upgrade, but it's 4x upgrade which can drive PSVR 2 just fine when it's out in 2018.
If it:s out in 2018, why still call it 4.5? PS5 would be perfect then.
ND could have got U4 SP running at 60fps, but they wouldn't have been able to animate Drake's chest hair and probably some other, more useful physics using the same math/routines.
60fps is always a design decision on a fixed platform, even with improved hardware.
For example: that extra power could be used to use more expensive AA techniques, add some AF (lol) or have better physics, or lighting. OR they could cut that back, and go all out for framerate, and hit 1080/60.
I agree that the extra oomph would be better served getting framerate up - I'm not especially sensitive to it, but I know the difference and prefer 60 - rather than boosting gfx to 4k and still running at 30.
An upscaler would actually make sense, if it is fast, as those in many in 4K TVs are not, causing input lag on 1080p sources. Then add native Blu-ray 4K support and of course for apps like netflix, put it in a slightly smaller casing - hopefully keep it cool and quiet in the process - and you have a nice PS4 revision. It could even contain the VR breakout box functionality with a second HDMI just to reduce cable chaos.
This is what would actually help the PS4, unlike most of the speculated things in this thread, which would plain kill off PlayStation. And it would explain the rumors. Everything will be fine.
I agree. These improvements are perfectly reasonable for a mid-generation refresh. Retain the core architecture to keep the 'Optimize for 1, optimize for 36 million' philosophy, while adding features that will keep PS4 relevant on store shelves after PS5 is a thing.
Iztok Mravlja
Banned
That's what he meant when he said "design decision". Except you forgot to include fidelity there. Devs can focus on either one of those three aspects (resolution, fps, fidelity) to any degree they wish.
They traditionally favour fidelity over both resolution and framerate, and will most often sacrifice framerate.
So a "4k capable" PS4 would still have the same problem. Do you make a high FPS game and risk the competition looking better in stills? Or do you go for what's still generally acceptable (30 fps) and max out fidelity.
I think many people don't realize that these things aren't independent of each other.
Graphics Horse
Member
I'd expect at least the home gui (what's it called now? not xmb) would be 4k and 4k video support. Obviously if you have the TV for it all games would technically be output in 4k in an Aaron Greenberg type way, but I doubt that's all there is to it.
Sony does make money from the PS4 though, I don't know why this is a generally accepted thought.
PS4 was profitable after 3-4 months of releasing (over 2 years ago), costs would have dropped considerably since and considering we haven't had a slim yet, I'd say the chance it was profitable after the couple of price drops is very high.
Anyway I agree that most of the money comes from software as that's how it usually is with consoles. If Sony decide to make a "PS4k" I'd say that it wouldn't even be a problem in terms of fabrication costs as they'll just use profits they've all ready garnered from PS4 instead of eating into RnD money which would be saved for PS5.
I'd say that the time is right for either modular consoles or upgrades every 2-3 years. People are gullible, especially kids and parents, they'll buy their kids the new consoles, the money will drive more advertisement and the general consumer will be more driven towards them because of that.
Also if Sony said the every game will be compatible with the old PS4 I could see a lot of people either upgrading day one, or waiting and upgrading a few months down the line when they have an understanding of what the upgrade brings. One last important thing to remember is that Sony isn't alone in doing this, Microsoft are doing it too. I'd even go as far as saying that of either one of them did it by their selves they'd fail miserably, if both of them do it, it'll be generally accepted by the average console consumer because what other choice would they have? Go to Nintendo?
No I meant 2018 for the release date of PSVR 2 which can match Oculus Rift & Vive @ $399. PS 4.5 can be released at the end of this year or hopefully in the next year.
Sidewinder
Member
PSVR 2 only matching Rift & Vive? PSVR isn't that far already now, I wouldn't buy such an upgrade and even less at that price.
PSVR 2 will need 4K and or foveated rendering/eye tracking, all of which the new PC helmets will most probably feature by then.
the fear of inferiority
GamerMax73
Member
I think more likely, and more dangerous is that AMD knocked at Sony's door and said...
We can shrink the die, slightly boost the clock speed and add a couple of extra GCN cores and hit your price/power requirements.
And some idiot at Sony thought, yeah were' gonna put HDMI 2 in the slim model anyway, well sell on the back of 4K and the timings right for VR.
Given at this point PS5 shouldn't be too far off in the current sales model (non-iterative) and such a move would intentionally segregate their market base it's a complete bone head maneuver and I credited Sony with a bit more market savvy than that.
If the APU is 3-4 times faster (which is more than the a rumoured GPU speed bump) that would mean some serious R&D on Sony's part and a lot of forward planning. That means this has been planed since before PS4's launch. That means they're looking at proper iteration, PS5 is further away than we think and this should be a good thing all round. That's what I want, but I'm not that optimistic.
Klepek, Totillo and Press Sneak Fuck have good dev sources, they would not talk if this was not happening.
https://secure.twitch.tv/patrickklepek/v/55620319?t=18m46s
However, they only know about current news, they don't know what will happen with this. It may come to the market, it may not. We can only speculate about that, which is the purpose of this thread.
I would like one good WiFi module for general web use, and a separate WiFi module that is used ONLY for home Vita/Android/PC Remote Play. In the current PS4 setup, sharing of its one and only WiFi module causes severe issues.
This has to be a new hardware, because the only other thing that they could do is to integrate PU into the PS4. But I don't see the point of that since Sony does not intend to sell just the headset. Every announced PSVR package includes the PU. Heck, even if they upgrade the hardware, PU will 99.9% still remain as a external device.
DYNAMIC CONTEXT SWITCHING BETWEEN ARCHITECTURALLY DISTINCT GRAPHICS PROCESSORS
1. A computer graphics apparatus, comprising: a) a central processing unit (CPU), wherein the CPU is configured to produce graphics input in a format having an architecture-neutral display list for a sequence of frames; b) a memory coupled to the central processing unit; c) first and second graphics processing units (GPU) coupled to the central processing unit, wherein the first GPU is architecturally dissimilar from the second GPU; and d) a just-in-time compiler coupled to the CPU and the first and second GPU configured to translate instructions in the architecture neutral display list into an architecture specific format for an active GPU of the first and second GPU, wherein the just-in-time compiler is configured to perform a context switch between the active GPU and the inactive GPU, wherein the active GPU becomes inactive and the inactive GPU becomes active to process a next frame of the sequence of frames, and turn off the one of the first and second GPU that is inactive after the context switch.
After reading it, this sounds a lot like a patent for a complier technique that enables one CPU to send commands to two local GPUs that have different architectures. Like integrated GPU and a dedicated GPU.
Ios-like iterations of consoles WILL happen.
It should come as no surprise that Sony and Ms copies Apples idea here? Apple have, after all, proved that this model really work for phones, pads and media streamers. Why not consoles?
The money is in the service like psn and locking the customer to a platform/store/os.
You buy games for Playstation platform and new games work a bit better on the latest Playstation platform. Down the line games will be released that work on "Playstation 4,5 or later". Again like Ios devices.
It is also better for developers. The same tools (although new versions) will be used for building games on all future Playstation platforms. Yes, just like Apples Ios development
This is good imo, games that perform bad (like Bloodborne) will finally be smooth on the next ps platform.
It should come as no surprise that Sony and Ms copies Apples idea here? Apple have, after all, proved that this model really work for phones, pads and media streamers. Why not consoles?
The money is in the service like psn and locking the customer to a platform/store/os.
You buy games for Playstation platform and new games work a bit better on the latest Playstation platform. Down the line games will be released that work on "Playstation 4,5 or later". Again like Ios devices.
It is also better for developers. The same tools (although new versions) will be used for building games on all future Playstation platforms. Yes, just like Apples Ios development
This is good imo, games that perform bad (like Bloodborne) will finally be smooth on the next ps platform.
MilkyJoe
Member
Console Civil Wars...
LostDonkey
Member
Could it be an external GPU solution? An add on? AMD has been throwing those around recently haven't they.
Graphics Horse
Member
It's a really old patent I wouldn't expect it to be connected. Might have been conceived for vita or ps4 bc.
LostDonkey
Member
How old are we talking?
AMD released an external GPU add on for a laptop in 2009 I believe that gave it a massive power boost.
It was a cute little box too, nothing extreme.
Could have perfected it over the last few years and made something exclusively for PS4.
This is the laptop version:
The little white box contains a HD3870.
GamerMax73
Member
External GPU, while technical possible, seems unlikely. Mainly because USB3 only offers 5Gbps transfer speeds as opposed to 20Gbps the existing closer on die GPU uses with main memory.
If the PS4 had a Thunderbolt interface it'd be an interesting idea (up to 40Gbps transfer) but even then surely we remember Sega 32X? An external addon that only a small minority of users could afford or want is a great idea.
Then again, what do I know?: They've just about to release PSVR - an external addon that only a small minority of users could afford or want...
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
BluRay UHD (4K)
chrishackwood
Member
An upscaler would actually make sense, if it is fast, as those in many in 4K TVs are not, causing input lag on 1080p sources. Then add native Blu-ray 4K support and of course for apps like netflix, put it in a slightly smaller casing - hopefully keep it cool and quiet in the process - and you have a nice PS4 revision. It could even contain the VR breakout box functionality with a second HDMI just to reduce cable chaos.
This is what would actually help the PS4, unlike most of the speculated things in this thread, which would plain kill off PlayStation. And it would explain the rumors. Everything will be fine.
Agreed. Sony aren't dump enough to fragment the games Market with a half cycle revision and what you've said sounds like something Sony would do, good news all round if true!
SerTapTap
Member
Remeber when Apple proved people want a $500 multipurpose device and the Xbox One was totally successful and smart for going after that segment because mobile 100% applies to console?
Honestly Wii U, Vita and Xbox One should all be clear signals that "just do what apple is doing but with way, WAY less public appeal and mobility" is absolutely not a reasonable way to treat the console or even handheld space.
A PS4 is absolutely nothing like an iPhone no matter how often they release.
GamerMax73
Member
Don't need to up rate PS4's GPU for that (which is part of the rumour). Don't need a 4.5 console for that. Given the shift to 4K TV's which is happening anyway and how close PS5 should be - it could wait for PS5 no problem.
No a product actually called 'PS4.5' is either a quick fudge design or PS5 is further away than we think.
An upscaler would actually make sense, if it is fast, as those in many in 4K TVs are not, causing input lag on 1080p sources. Then add native Blu-ray 4K support and of course for apps like netflix, put it in a slightly smaller casing - hopefully keep it cool and quiet in the process - and you have a nice PS4 revision. It could even contain the VR breakout box functionality with a second HDMI just to reduce cable chaos.
This is what would actually help the PS4, unlike most of the speculated things in this thread, which would plain kill off PlayStation. And it would explain the rumors. Everything will be fine.
That would be cool, but it would introduce another SKU to PSVR, and that would cause confusion. What do I need, what is compatible with my console and what is not, etc. Unfortunately the breakout box is here to stay this generation imo.
Graphics Horse
Member
tbh I think it's worth it just to offer a tidier setup. Can worry another cost saving sku without the extras later.
PS4 does not have capability of using external GPU.
SenkiDala
Member
4K/60fps, really? You know that even a 3000$ PC is unable to do that? O_O
Ninja Sharingan
Banned
So Jeff on this weeks giantbomb says its deffo happening..in what capacity we do not know...But they need to get ahead of this. They nailed it that it was good when it was Phil spencer talking about it happening, its not good when its rumours. SOny needs to say something. I wouldnt touch buying a PS4 right now
Yeah, I'm not seeing this leading to any really positive outcome for Sony unless they have some ridiculously generous trade-in program AND somehow re-market the current PS4s.
Most of my fairly-well-off friends still haven't upgraded as you say, and the ones that have, well, they would be magnificently pissed off by this.
GamerMax73
Member
I've argued in more detail over in the iteration thread (were this discussion probably belongs) but in general terms...
PS4 is the current lead platform and remains so for another 5 years. A PS4.5 arrives in the 2017 time frame (4 years after launch). PS4 retails under £200, PS4.5 retails around £350. When PS5 is released 4 years later (around 2021), PS4 drops off the radar, PS4.5 drops to under £200 and becomes lead platform, PS5 comes in at £350. And again 4 years later when PS5.5 hits.
You can argue timescales and number of models in a cycle but generally that would be the only way I'd see an iteration model actually working - very similar to the IOS model just over a longer time frame with less supported models.
If PS4.5 is a proper planned thing that Sony R&D have been working with AMD on for some time, at least as far back as PS4's launch, then that is very much how I can see it going down.
On the other hand if PS4.5 is more a misnomer, a knee-jerk reaction to hardcore 1080p60 lack of performance complaints, a minor boost for PSVR, and or a marketing tool for 4K TV - then that's not how it will go down at all and I'd more skeptical and worried over Sonys future console plans.
Nah, not really. It's always developers' choice. We had 1080p/60 games on PS360. We have some on currentgen. At the same time even if you stuffed an i7, 32 Gb HBM and 3 Titans in a console you could still see some games in subHD and 20 fps. Just a matter of dev choice/skill.
There will be a upgrade path.
Chû Totoro
Member
This is a revolution !
So now it is like every other piece of hardware that I use. Ok. As a consumer I like options.
A console not changing for 10 years (exaggeration for humorous effect), was, you know, something that happened in the 90's cause it was, you know, the 90's.
If ps4.5 it means 60 fps I'll be the first to bring it. But just for 4k I don't give a fuck.
If they were, people would not be complaining and lining up like sheep.
Memnoch
Member
Exactly. I would buy the ps4.5 day one.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why would they want to do this? Playstation history has shown that they sell most of their consoles under a $250 price.
Me too. I've yet to identify a downside to an upgrade.
Yes like if they added a new dedicated GPU to the PS4 like having a APU & dedicated GPU in your PC but it's able to context switch between the 2.
IF, and that's a big if, native 4k is on the table the only way to not piss off curent PS4 owners is just to up the resolution and nothing else major.
It could also be some kind of reconstruction method to hit 4k. Not native rendering but more complex and accurate than a straight upscale.
Not necessarily - you just wouldn't have to connect the box. You may have paid a little more than you need then, but it would be worth not confusing the market with another SKU, also you could still bring the headset to a friend with a regular PS4.
Considering I don't have a PS4 yet but was planning on getting one pretty soon - I guess I'll wait and see if this does get released.
If it were Apple? Actually I think there would be even more people complaining.
Or you could connect the box to the PS4.5 for Super VR
A PS4.5 is not going to run games at 4k/60 fps.