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[Tagyhag]

Why is tax money being used to defend people that are in the country illegally? It should only be privately sourced money like a charity.

Because there are immigrants who pay taxes and don't get anything in return, they're giving more to the economy than taking out.

And if every illegal immigrant that is in California would be deported, our state would crumble.

The least we can do is try to keep them here.

A lot of people think that's hyperbolic and that maybe Trump wouldn't try to do something so crazy, but I bet those people thought he'd never become President as well.

Besides, the more that California hurts, the better for Republicans.

 

[Haly]

Besides, the more that California hurts, the better for Republicans.

Yes, in the long term, any crackdown/limiting/rolling back of immigration will do only one thing: entrench the GOP longer while fucking over everyone else. That's not to say we should just open the borders and let anyone in, but immigration is one of the biggest long-term threats to the GOP as an institution.

 

[The Hamburglar]

Erm if they're illegal in the first place why should or would the state even help them? I'm sure that will piss people off who pay tax and don't get any legal help with anything.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Erm if they're illegal in the first place why should or would the state even help them? I'm sure that will piss people off who pay tax and don't get any legal help with anything.

Are those people facing deportation?

It's not taking away from current legal aid by the city or by organizations.

 

[numble]

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/oct/02/maria-teresa-kumar/how-much-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes/

The average illegal immigrant in California pays around 8% for State and Local taxes. Only 3.1 million Illegal Immigrants of the 11 million in the country pay Social Security.

I hate to use the Heritage Foundation, but even Politifact is citing them

This is a city though, which is primarily funded through sales taxes and property taxes, which cannot be avoided based on legal status.

 

[EMT0]

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/oct/02/maria-teresa-kumar/how-much-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes/

The average illegal immigrant in California pays around 8% for State and Local taxes. Only 3.1 million Illegal Immigrants of the 11 million in the country pay Social Security.

I hate to use the Heritage Foundation, but even Politifact is citing them

I hate to burst your damn bubble, but if only 3.1 million undocumented immigrants (my parents included) pay for Social Security, that's 3.1 million that are paying into a system that they can't claim anything from regardless. My parents pay taxes on that but at this rate, won't ever be able to access anything from their contribution. Many undocumented immigrants still pay federal, state, and local taxes.

When will the day come when people will stop spreading bullshit, twisted figures, and heresy about us. Undocumented immigrants pay taxes. Some may not pay federal taxes, but a large portion of them do. And they pay state and local taxes whether they want to or not, because sales and property taxes are damn near inescapable unless you also live like a hermit in the woods. And most of that tax money goes to fund services they can't access beyond schools for their kids and infrastructure maintenance. Social security? Fucking ha. Most immigrants don't have the option of paying into Social Security, because they don't have an SSN. Most that do happily pay into it because it legitimizes their contributions to American society and gives them a tax record to cite. If you're going to pick something to bash undocumented immigrants over, pick something better than a system that most can't benefit from, let alone pay into.

Seriously? Is this a thing?

Why people use undocumented immigrant

 

[HallucinatingElvis]

"undocumented migrants" please.

No, illegal immigrants,they have broken the law, they are here illegally.

 

[GK86]

No, illegal immigrants,they have broken the law, they are here illegally.

Immigrants on stolen land.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Immigrants on stolen land.

Only white people get that designation.

 

[Tagyhag]

Immigrants on stolen land.

Hey now, we slaughtered those Native Americans fair and square.

 

[Night Angel]

Thank god I left California. Spending taxpayer money to protect people who are breaking the law from enforcement of those laws is idiotic.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Thank god I left California. Spending taxpayer money to protect people who are breaking the law from enforcement of those laws is idiotic.

I'm sure you're missed.

 

[richardhawk]

Thank god I left California. Spending taxpayer money to protect people who are breaking the law from enforcement of those laws is idiotic.

Don't come back please.

 

[Rayis]

No, illegal immigrants,they have broken the law, they are here illegally.

Yeah, they should be sent to jail and treated just like rapists, murderers, and violent criminals.

 

[Night Angel]

Yeah, they should be sent to jail and treated just like rapists, murderers, and violent criminals.

TIL laws should only be enforced for violent crimes.

 

[darklin0]

Thank god I left California. Spending taxpayer money to protect people who are breaking the law from enforcement of those laws is idiotic.

Good riddance.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

TIL laws should only be enforced for violent crimes.

What you should learn is that a state/country who uses these people and spits them back out as a cheap labor force, and benefits from that tremendously, turning around and showing them some compassion and assistance is a good thing. It's the least we could do.

 

[Tagyhag]

TIL laws should only be enforced for violent crimes.

Realistically, what would you do with all those immigrants?

And tell me how you'd plug the massive hole that their departure would have on our economy and our workforce.

 

[slit]

Thank god I left California. Spending taxpayer money to protect people who are breaking the law from enforcement of those laws is idiotic.

People sure love to equate law to morality. If you have a reason this should not happen based on your morals, fine. Saying "Well they are illegal and the law is the law" is idiotic.

 

[Haly]

Realistically, what would you do with all those immigrants?

And tell me how you'd plug the massive hole that their departure would have on our economy and our workforce.

But the law!

 

[Rebel Leader]

I couldn't have come up with a good way to make a point

 

[Rayis]

What you should learn is that a state/country who uses these people and spits them back out as a cheap labor force, and benefits from that tremendously, turning around and showing them some compassion and assistance is a good thing. It's the least we could do.

He has to learn empathy before that concept makes sense in his mind.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Thank god I left California. Spending taxpayer money to protect people who are breaking the law from enforcement of those laws is idiotic.

You're welcome to go to the fields and pick potatoes with your hands.

 

[God Dayumm]

I hate to burst your damn bubble, but if only 3.1 million undocumented immigrants (my parents included) pay for Social Security, that's 3.1 million that are paying into a system that they can't claim anything from regardless. My parents pay taxes on that but at this rate, won't ever be able to access anything from their contribution. Many undocumented immigrants still pay federal, state, and local taxes.

When will the day come when people will stop spreading bullshit, twisted figures, and heresy about us. Undocumented immigrants pay taxes. Some may not pay federal taxes, but a large portion of them do. And they pay state and local taxes whether they want to or not, because sales and property taxes are damn near inescapable unless you also live like a hermit in the woods. And most of that tax money goes to fund services they can't access beyond schools for their kids and infrastructure maintenance. Social security? Fucking ha. Most immigrants don't have the option of paying into Social Security, because they don't have an SSN. Most that do happily pay into it because it legitimizes their contributions to American society and gives them a tax record to cite. If you're going to pick something to bash undocumented immigrants over, pick something better than a system that most can't benefit from, let alone pay into.



Why people use undocumented immigrant

This is why taxes on the working class are feudal oppression. Neither immigrants nor legal residents should be paying taxes, period.

 

[EMT0]

No, illegal immigrants,they have broken the law, they are here illegally.

Thank god I left California. Spending taxpayer money to protect people who are breaking the law from enforcement of those laws is idiotic.

TIL laws should only be enforced for violent crimes.

Yup, there's always those. I'm kind of surprised. Normally when I drop posts like the one above, everyone that was spouting off about undocumented immigrants run away and stop posting. How about replying to anything without resorting to 'M-muh law!'

 

[OraleeWey]

It seems quite clear that people have no knowledge on the immigration issue. People are ignorant on the subject. It sucks. If only they put a little effort into trying to learn just a little. Just enough so they can at least leave a relevant comment with contribution.

 

[Night Angel]

People sure love to equate law to morality. If you have a reason this should not happen based on your morals, fine. Saying "Well they are illegal and the law is the law" is idiotic.

Ok, so morally I have an issue with money being used to shield people from the consequences of illegal immigration while others who have legally immigrated foot the bill.

The funds for this should be raised specifically for this purpose and should not come from funds that would otherwise benefit legal citizens.

 

[Rebel Leader]

No, illegal immigrants,they have broken the law, they are here illegally.

Try legal immigration with only the cloths on your back.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Thank god I left California. Spending taxpayer money to protect people who are breaking the law from enforcement of those laws is idiotic.

you don't believe in public defenders? because your tax money, no matter where you are, is going to protect people who are breaking the law from enforcement of the law.

 

[slit]

Ok, so morally I have an issue with money being used to shield people from the consequences of illegal immigration while others who have legally immigrated foot the bill.

The funds for this should be raised specifically for this purpose and should not come from funds that would otherwise benefit legal citizens.

You just went in a circle. Those who legally immigrated are not the only ones footing the bill. They had to go through hoops because the system is broke. All you did was arbitrarily go back to a legal definition.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

you don't believe in public defenders? because your tax money, no matter where you are, is going to protect people who are breaking the law from enforcement of the law.

No excuses. Poor people should pick themselves up and pass the bar if they want legal defense. Otherwise they should have thought about that before they decided to commit a crime they may or may not have committed.

 

[EMT0]

Ok, so morally I have an issue with money being used to shield people from the consequences of illegal immigration while others who have legally immigrated foot the bill.

The funds for this should be raised specifically for this purpose and should not come from funds that would otherwise benefit legal citizens.

That money is coming from people that contribute to your society even if you pretend otherwise and stick your fingers in your ears to everyone saying otherwise. You're being two-faced.

 

[KRod-57]

This isn't a call to justice so much as it is an area securing its own economy. Mass deportations is an expense for many areas of the country, this proposal for a 10 million legal defense fund is considered more of an investment by those who support it.

 

[Dali]

I hate to burst your damn bubble, but if only 3.1 million undocumented immigrants (my parents included) pay for Social Security, that's 3.1 million that are paying into a system that they can't claim anything from regardless. My parents pay taxes on that but at this rate, won't ever be able to access anything from their contribution. Many undocumented immigrants still pay federal, state, and local taxes.

When will the day come when people will stop spreading bullshit, twisted figures, and heresy about us. Undocumented immigrants pay taxes. Some may not pay federal taxes, but a large portion of them do. And they pay state and local taxes whether they want to or not, because sales and property taxes are damn near inescapable unless you also live like a hermit in the woods. And most of that tax money goes to fund services they can't access beyond schools for their kids and infrastructure maintenance. Social security? Fucking ha. Most immigrants don't have the option of paying into Social Security, because they don't have an SSN. Most that do happily pay into it because it legitimizes their contributions to American society and gives them a tax record to cite. If you're going to pick something to bash undocumented immigrants over, pick something better than a system that most can't benefit from, let alone pay into.



Why people use undocumented immigrant

It's almost like people can't just do whatever they want to without incurring some sort of penalty. It's crazy, I know.

 

[FStop7]

Empathy is as extinct as the dinosaurs.

 

[PopeReal]

Thank god I left California. Spending taxpayer money to protect people who are breaking the law from enforcement of those laws is idiotic.

Lol how fucking dumb is this statement?

Hope you or your family never needs a public defender. But let me guess, your family shits gold and righteousness?

 

[Night Angel]

you don't believe in public defenders? because your tax money, no matter where you are, is going to protect people who are breaking the law from enforcement of the law.

A public defense is required because people are presumed innocent. This earmark, on the other hand, appears to be for the purpose of shielding people whose guilt is not in question from legal consequences of said guilt.

They aren't related, and equating the two is intellectually dishonest.

You just went in a circle. Those who legally immigrated are not the only ones footing the bill. They had to go through hoops because the system is broke. All you did was arbitrarily go back to a legal definition.

I see no circular reasoning in that post. My post did not require an absence of funds from illegal immigrants.

 

[Night Angel]

Edit: sorry for the double post.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

A public defense is required because people are presumed innocent. This earmark, on the other hand, appears to be for the purpose of shielding people whose guilt is not in question from legal consequences of said guilt.

They aren't related, and equating the two is intellectually dishonest.

When were these people found guilty of a crime?

 

[slit]

A public defense is required because people are presumed innocent. This earmark, on the other hand, appears to be for the purpose of shielding people whose guilt is not in question from legal consequences of said guilt.

They aren't related, and equating the two is intellectually dishonest.

And in this situation they're not?

 

[PopeReal]

A public defense is required because people are presumed innocent. This earmark, on the other hand, appears to be for the purpose of shielding people whose guilt is not in question from legal consequences of said guilt.

They aren't related, and equating the two is intellectually dishonest.

All are guilty, says this dude.

Lol

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Thank god I left California. Spending taxpayer money to protect people who are breaking the law from enforcement of those laws is idiotic.

We shouldn't have public defenders with this kind of logic. Or appeals.

 

[Night Angel]

When were these people found guilty of a crime?

I'd imagine by the time they attempt to engage these funds it will be proven they do not have documentation showing that they are citizens, yes? Otherwise how will they ever know when to spend this money?

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

Are you guys arguing that illegal immigration isn't a crime? I mean, it's in the name.

 

[PopeReal]

We don't need courts or lawyers anymore. Just do as angry taxpayer guy says.

 

[PopeReal]

Are you guys arguing that illegal immigration isn't a crime? I mean, it's in the name.

Murder is a crime. It's in the name. So no need for court or trials.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I'd imagine by the time they attempt to engage these funds it will be proven they do not have documentation showing that they are citizens, yes? Otherwise how will they ever know when to spend this money?

Until they've pled or been found guilty of a crime, they are not criminals, period. The legal system doesn't suddenly stop applying because someone is brown and doesn't speak English.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

We don't need courts or lawyers anymore. Just do as angry taxpayer guy says.

Every post like this belies a fundamental lack of understanding of what is being argued. Once a lack of documentation has been established, innocence can no longer be proven. As in, they're guilty. All of this talk about public defenders has nothing to do with anything. Perhaps the appealate court comparisons have merit but the other arguments are non starters.

 

[slit]

I see no circular reasoning in that post. My post did not require an absence of funds from illegal immigrants.

Well you did. You said that immigrants who went though a process that others find broken, disorganised and politicized should not have to foot the bill because illegal immigrants who are here did not and will reap a benefit. Let me ask you then, do you think the current system is broken or not?

 

[EMT0]

It's almost like people can't just do whatever they want to without incurring some sort of penalty. It's crazy, I know.

It's even crazier when you get shat on for paying the price for that penalty, then people pretend you're not paying some sort of penalty at all. It's fucking amazing, I know. Especially when you spell it out for people and it still flies over their heads.