Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
They should screw off and go fix their business issues before begging for money. How unprofessional and ridiculous.
La-Mulana 2 Kickstarter: We'll Show That You Don't Need Big Names To Make Money
- Thread starter Cheddahz
- Start date
KojiKnight
Member
I think you're just reading too much into it. They want their project to be successful (who wouldn't?) so they want to know what the people backing would LIKE as rewards so that they can add them and draw in more attention.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Yeah... This now screams " we aren't su re what we're doing!"
Not taking the gamble on this kickstarter, since I can't possibly 110% sure they've done the planning to be sure they're going to finish the game.
Not taking the gamble on this kickstarter, since I can't possibly 110% sure they've done the planning to be sure they're going to finish the game.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Ridiculous. They aren't some clueless upstarts who don't know how to make a game, they already delivered a full game in the past, and their vision for the contents of the sequel is made very clear.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
Taken alone, maybe. But taken in context with reward tiers asking for substantial amounts of money yet having no plan, it's absurd. You can't put stretch goals that you just slapped together. System ports aren't subject to negotiation later. They should be set in stone with a solid plan when you announced the goal.
No business sense. Part of why I have such a distaste for Kickstarter. Everyone thinks business is easy. Let the business people do business and you guys just make the games.
Sounds more like they're asking for feedback which is a big part of the point of kickstarter.
Also, I'm pretty sure the game would actually be finished even without the kickstarter. Just less ambitious and it would take much longer to come out
Dwight Schrute
Member
1,150,000 : Handheld Versions ?????? lol ?
Wasn't this and LM 1 announced for Vita ?
Wasn't this and LM 1 announced for Vita ?
DXLelouch153
Banned
welp curry party and curry hell is pretty much guaranteed at this point
already above half their required money goal
already above half their required money goal
Yeah, this Kickstarter campaign just reeks of uncertainty. Ports being negotiated later, language that states that they need more than the goal amount...it's just risky.
That's not to say that these guys can't make good games, but there are two sides to every game. The business side (marketing, PR, budgeting, legal, etc) and the development side. They need to hire someone in the former and stat.
That's not to say that these guys can't make good games, but there are two sides to every game. The business side (marketing, PR, budgeting, legal, etc) and the development side. They need to hire someone in the former and stat.
Linkstrikesback
Member
And just the remake took nigh on 4 years to be finished, let alone a brand new game. I'm in no rush to pay for something that might not surface until 2018 if ever.
Tye The Czar
Member
If that's the in-game justification, I can buy that.
*GASP!* I just had a sinister idea.
What if Nigoro designed her this way for a reason other than base sex appeal? They're planning for people who want a more sensible design to pay $45!
Magnificent...
Vita version seem to be thrown in with the baseline offerings.
cj_iwakura
Member
I'm far more confident in this than I am in 'Matsuno' 's Unsung project.
Well Playism and Sony did a joint something something, so they are supposed to be working together on something. Someone in Osaka should get Nayan(@Thetrin) drunk and make him spill the beans!
Would absolutely tripple Dip for a Vita version of this game. And all of you who haven't should buy it right now.
It's on Playism, GoG and Steam.
Stone Ocean
Member
What? It's their first kickstarter and they're asking for feedback on how to keep the momentum going, how does that even remotely correlate to them not having planning to finish the game? They've made games before, you know.
What language saying that they need more than the goal amount?
About the negotiation part I would believe that they mean which one of the platform holders can help them in releasing the game in US/EU perhaps? Anyway, we are asking that they do make the meaning clear. I myself want this for my Vita. I need another addiction other than Spelunky.
EDIT:
when I say addiction I mean it. First thing I do when I wake up, Daily Challange on Spelunky. Toilet, food, brush my teeth and a few more deaths on Spelunky.
When I come home. Check my private mail/messages(I'm serious like that, only work stuff at work(NeoGAF not included)) Pick up my Vita, toilet and Spelunky, some other things.
Time to sleep, a few runs of Spelunky.
Rince and repeat.
If the shield wasn't so annoying(Don't like the controlls) I would be playing La-Mulana on it instead ofusing my Vita and playing Spelunky.
EDIT:
when I say addiction I mean it. First thing I do when I wake up, Daily Challange on Spelunky. Toilet, food, brush my teeth and a few more deaths on Spelunky.
When I come home. Check my private mail/messages(I'm serious like that, only work stuff at work(NeoGAF not included)) Pick up my Vita, toilet and Spelunky, some other things.
Time to sleep, a few runs of Spelunky.
Rince and repeat.
If the shield wasn't so annoying(Don't like the controlls) I would be playing La-Mulana on it instead ofusing my Vita and playing Spelunky.
BudokaiMR2
Member
I can say with complete confidence that won't happen in this case. The remake delays were for a lot of other reasons which i am sure other people can explain. Not really my place to open that can of worms.
Not really sure where the negative feedback for the stretch goals is coming from. A lot of thought and planning went into setting the goals up and they are in no way just slapped together. I have seen the math and porting estimates from various companies so I know it is legit.
I think people are looking at the porting goal stretch marks alone and not realizing how it works into the entire project as a whole.
It's not 1.15 mil alone to port to the handheld systems. The difference between that first porting goal and the guidebook comes to 200k.
200k to port and publish on two extra platforms is not unreasonable and I am not sure why anyone would think that is the case. Pretty sure that is a standard amount you see on most Kickstarter projects, even when you have an easier porting project like a game built in a middleware engine compared to a custom engine like the one that Nigoro uses.
And yeah the last update was just trying to gauge what other stuff people would want from the project. And don't worry we have a lot of other stuff in store as the project goes forward.
Are there any other problems people see with the stretch goals? I am a little curious what the specific feedback is so I can send it to the Nigoro team. We are listening!
charlequin
Banned
This (and the other similar complaints nearby) is ridiculous. You're looking at a well-constructed kickstarter, for a game of well-understood scope, from a development house that's already successfully published and released the predecessor title, who are seeing the success they've already reached and started already to respond and engage with their fanbase about the ongoing process of the campaign. To take that and spin it around into "they don't know what they're doing! they won't even release the game! everyone should be afraid!" (based on, I guess, uncharitably read sentences in a KS update translated from Japanese) is completely absurd.
Aside from the ones here, I've seen comments elsewhere that the "or possibly" language in the port goals is putting people off, since they don't know exactly what they're going to get out of that.
UPDATE #4
Hey everyone! Nayan here with another update. Today we're going to talk a little about the story and world of La-Mulana 2.
Since it's a sequel, La-Mulana 2 is set in the same world as the first game. Lemeza, the protagonist of the first game successfully solved the riddle of the ruins, and all the traps and monsters have disappeared. Xelpud, the elder of the village, turned the entrance to the ruins of La-Mulana into a sightseeing hotspot, and now the village you started your adventure from is little more than a tourist town.
The ruins themselves collapsed after the protagonist of the first game, Lemeza Kosugi, solved their mystery. Rebuilding is going on alongside the growth of the La-Mulana tourist scene. The public is extremely limited in which areas of the ruins they are allowed into.
Five years since the events of the first game, something strange occurred in the tourist-packed ruins. Monsters began to appear from somewhere. The village elder tried to contact Lemeza but was unable to get a response.
You see, although he successfully solved the mystery of the ruins and was able to publish his groundbreaking findings, Lemeza was also blamed throughout the academic community for being responsible for the collapse of the ruins, and with it, the loss immense amounts of archaeological knowledge. He was forced to go into hiding.
Fortunately, his daughter caught wind of the request for an archaeologist, and that is where the game picks up.
Character Introduction: Xelpud
Along with today's update, we're showing off full body character art for one of the major characters in La-Mulana 2: Elder Xelpud.
Click to see it in all of its high resolution glory!
That's it for now! Keep sending us your fan art!
Signing off!
Nayan Ramachandran
PLAYISM
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Which is fair criticism. I completely agree with that. It's something that we're aware of, and we're working to rectify.
PixyJunket
Member
I'm probably not alone in this, but I would like to see the portable/console ports a little closer to the front.
If NIGORO needs $200,000 to port to 3DS/Vita as you noted, why not put that at the $400,000 or $500,000 level? Then put a game addition level or two in there and then the console port goal. I am confident your pledges will speed up once people are seeing that other platforms crossed or within reach.
Also, has the skeleton key thing been explained in full? Are the costume exclusive to those backer tiers?
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
The costumes are exclusive to those tiers, yes, but we're looking to add additional costumes to the game down the line that all players will be able to unlock.
I don't want to draw too much of a comparison, but just in terms of stretch goals I think Hyper Light Drifter is a pretty good example. Other Kick-starters were fueled off of depravity of a beloved genre. People seem to really get into the gameplay that is promised. Having some closer together goals that directly add to the content and systems of the gameplay really encourages people that when they fund. They are directly enabling this game to be even better than it could be.
For La-Mulana 2 some of those goals feel less related to the moment to moment gameplay, and more like periphery stuff. If this isn't the case, then I feel their needs to be more emphasis on how these things are intertwined with improving the core of the game. And not just offering some monster documentation or scattered journals to pick up. I really don't know what those goals mean so I can't really build them up in my mind.
For La-Mulana 2 some of those goals feel less related to the moment to moment gameplay, and more like periphery stuff. If this isn't the case, then I feel their needs to be more emphasis on how these things are intertwined with improving the core of the game. And not just offering some monster documentation or scattered journals to pick up. I really don't know what those goals mean so I can't really build them up in my mind.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Yeah there are several reasons for using that sort of wording, not least of which being the fact that no one knows what Microsofts plans for the Xbox One in Japan are going to be and how they will treat developers. Nigoro has applied for the ID@xboxone thing but they obviously haven't settles their plans for Japan yet.
So it's kind of an option of using vague language, or dropping Xbox One from the list completely for example.
For most platforms either Playism or Nigoro already has a publishing contract so it is a much simpler matter. However, there are other cases like with Xbox One or Xbox 360.
We definitely were not going to put the KS on hold until we get definite answers from Microsoft because.....well it should be obvious!
Hopefully we can figure out a good solution. We knew the wording was likely to cause problems but we were hoping Nigoro's reputation would help overcome any doubt that came up.
Sorry If there are any typos! On my iPad for this trip!
^^That's all well and good, but it is confusing for people reading it. From what I'm gathering here, "we'll port La-Mulana 2 to Wii U, PS4, or possibly even Xbox One. (platforms included are subject to negotiation)" should read closer to "we'll port La-Mulana 2 to Wii U, PS4, and potentially also Xbox One (pending ongoing negotiations)."
There are a couple of subtle fixes: Or is changed to and, so readers would know Wii U and PS4 are nearly a given, and it's only X1 that's up in the air. The word ongoing implies that this is a process you're already involved in, know about and are attempting to make happen, rather than being left vague.
For some of the stretch goals, you should give more to whet peoples' appetite. As an example, for the 700K goal, Character Stories, it's not clear at all what characters will be played as. Mulbruk? Someone who hasn't been mentioned yet? Is there concept art for these characters to suggest that there are existing ideas for how this goal would play out? If it's a secret character, showing silhouettes is a fun way to say "We have these exciting plans but we're keeping it close to the chest for now." The way the text reads right now, it sounds like an idea that was just thrown out there and not necessarily given any meaningful designs yet.
For the 600K goal, what significance does switching to another character have on the game play? Does it mean the entire game is redesigned with two players in mind? Is it a glorified teleport? Without much information, this sounds like something that could make the game a lot different in unpredictable ways, or not change the game much at all. Neither of those are appealing. You need to be careful when leaving things to the imagination that people aren't guided into thinking something bad could happen.
Why does the Bestiary cost half as much as the base game? (this is assuming the jump from 300K to 400K in goals is more or less the cost necessary to individually create that content). It seems like a fairly simple thing to implement, especially since the monster art will already have been created for the game proper. Is this stretch goal padded because it's a stepping stone to some of the other goals? Is there some sort of cost that hasn't been made clear? This is double the cost of the guidebook.
Speaking of which, what exactly is meant by "new guidebook"? Is it a guidebook for La Mulana 2, or is it another attempt at one of the previous guidebooks that were "difficult to translate"?
Personally, I've already backed at $40 and am choosing not to get hung up over the stretch goals, but I would be lying if I said I didn't understand why people are having qualms.
There are a couple of subtle fixes: Or is changed to and, so readers would know Wii U and PS4 are nearly a given, and it's only X1 that's up in the air. The word ongoing implies that this is a process you're already involved in, know about and are attempting to make happen, rather than being left vague.
For some of the stretch goals, you should give more to whet peoples' appetite. As an example, for the 700K goal, Character Stories, it's not clear at all what characters will be played as. Mulbruk? Someone who hasn't been mentioned yet? Is there concept art for these characters to suggest that there are existing ideas for how this goal would play out? If it's a secret character, showing silhouettes is a fun way to say "We have these exciting plans but we're keeping it close to the chest for now." The way the text reads right now, it sounds like an idea that was just thrown out there and not necessarily given any meaningful designs yet.
For the 600K goal, what significance does switching to another character have on the game play? Does it mean the entire game is redesigned with two players in mind? Is it a glorified teleport? Without much information, this sounds like something that could make the game a lot different in unpredictable ways, or not change the game much at all. Neither of those are appealing. You need to be careful when leaving things to the imagination that people aren't guided into thinking something bad could happen.
Why does the Bestiary cost half as much as the base game? (this is assuming the jump from 300K to 400K in goals is more or less the cost necessary to individually create that content). It seems like a fairly simple thing to implement, especially since the monster art will already have been created for the game proper. Is this stretch goal padded because it's a stepping stone to some of the other goals? Is there some sort of cost that hasn't been made clear? This is double the cost of the guidebook.
Speaking of which, what exactly is meant by "new guidebook"? Is it a guidebook for La Mulana 2, or is it another attempt at one of the previous guidebooks that were "difficult to translate"?
Personally, I've already backed at $40 and am choosing not to get hung up over the stretch goals, but I would be lying if I said I didn't understand why people are having qualms.
If i were Nigoro i would totally ditch the X360/Xbone support since i'm pretty sure that they won't sell a thing on those consoles ¯\_(ツ
_/¯
Also yeah the stretch goals are a bit difficult to met but sincerely i don't even care (and i think nobody should) because given the situation it's enough that the game is being made.
_/¯Also yeah the stretch goals are a bit difficult to met but sincerely i don't even care (and i think nobody should) because given the situation it's enough that the game is being made.
Stone Ocean
Member
I kind of imagined the "or" part of the ports applied to the Ms consoles, but I can understand people being confused by that.
Putting a disclaimer on the specifics would be best IMO. Never too much information when dealing with crowdfunding.
Putting a disclaimer on the specifics would be best IMO. Never too much information when dealing with crowdfunding.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
The same language where they can apparently set platforms (which requires money) with money they don't have, if some in here are to be believed.
Stone Ocean
Member
It's funny that we just went through Mighty No 9's kickstarter that had similar - and higher! - stretch goals for consoles and people seemed ok with it.
Shit's expensive yo.
Yeah, this is what I was trying to get at. They seem too expensive for what they are, and furthermore don't really seem to fit in with the core of the game. I'd like them certainly, but they feel a bit tacked on from the way they are presented. Putting smaller stepping stones goals of Implement proper platforming physics, more weapon types, new monsters, new time stopping puzzles. Stuff like that, which seems to equate to improvements of the game.
I'm always skeptical of kickstarters that claim they can just staple more content onto the core of the game like that. It's one thing if it's a level-based game and stretch goals add levels, but integrating content into the game as a whole suggests that the design isn't as well thought out as it should be. Assuming this game is anything at all like its predecessor, the basic $200k level is already going to fund a fully fleshed out experience.
There is certainly that aspect. But that is what the KS is for. They can take all those stretch goals now, and have them properly integrated. Of course it depends on how the developers are approaching the KS process.
In any case, I don't want to cast doubt on them. I think they have themselves sorted well enough.
This post is a lot more amusing if you imagine "Spelunky" as being onomatapoeia for poop hitting the toilet surface.
From my point of view, I don't see a problem with the stretch goals themselves, but I do think it was inadvisable to reveal them in full this early; it makes it a little awkward to adjust over time.
That's more a "Kickstarter strategy" issue rather than an issue with the actual *content*, though.
As I said upthread: I think the game would benefit more from putting content targets up front and ports at the rear, because after everything's done, it's a *lot* easier to retroactively add in further ports than it is to add in extra fully-integrated content.
Hahahahahah!!! Post of the year 2014.
Tye The Czar
Member
To be honest, while I can agree with this, I believe that mod tools should be featured as one of the lower goals. But I understand why they did it this way since getting ports is such a high priority for Nigoro.
Update #5
Hey everyone! Nayan here. Today we wanted to give a little more explanation on how costumes and skeleton keys will work in La-Mulana 2.
La-Mulana had some items hidden away in it that allowed you to change your characters sprite. For 2, we want to give our Kickstarter backers the ability to customize their player characters.
These keys, which are exclusive to Kickstarter backers, unlock the costume chests that are hidden away in the ruins. One key will allow you to open one chest. If you have all four keys, you can unlock all four extra costumes. You can only change to clothes you have unlocked.
We thought long and hard about what kind of costumes players would enjoy, and narrowed it down to 8 potential outfits. We're going to let, you, our backers vote for their favourite four, which will make it into the game.
There are still some elements that we're working on - will these costumes change the player's abilities? Can we offer some way for non backers to obtain the costumes? Were looking forward to hammering out these issues with your help during the Kickstarter.
Character Introduction: Lemeza Kosugi
You know him. You love him. He's the reason the series exists. We're proud to welcome back none other than Lemeza Kosugi, the hero of La-Mulana 1.
That's it for now, but we have plenty of awesome updates to come!
Signing Off!
Nayan Ramachandran
PLAYISM
Well, it's my money, and I'm not investing my money in something that even has a hint of uncertainty.
Sorry if that makes me absurd. I'll just buy the game when it comes out.
Hours Left
Member
If you don't like uncertainty, I'd recommend staying away from Kickstarter completely.
Things always change, for every project.
charlequin
Banned
It certainly makes commenting in a thread about a Kickstarter pretty absurd, at least.
cpp_is_king
Member
The platform makes all the difference, I can tell you with definitive certainty that porting from PC to PS4 is an extremely easy task, and the PS4 version should be much higher up on the list as a result.
HadesGigas
Member
Yeah the "give us X dollars and we'll port it to one to three things" seems poorly thought out.
If Xbox stuff is still up in the air it should either be not there at all or included as a separate tier. Honestly every platform you port to should be it's own tier, that way it's not an all or nothing thing that is so much higher. Then you have to figure out what one to make the first target.
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