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LAPD Officer's Op-Ed: "Don't challenge us and we won't hurt you"

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Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
And yes, the title of the article is "I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me." http://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...t-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/?hpid=z1

You know that feeling when you think you're reading an Onion article, but then its in the Washington Post?

A teenager is fatally shot by a police officer; the police are accused of being bloodthirsty, trigger-happy murderers; riots erupt. This, we are led to believe, is the way of things in America.

It is also a terrible calumny; cops are not murderers. No officer goes out in the field wishing to shoot anyone, armed or unarmed. And while they’re unlikely to defend it quite as loudly during a time of national angst like this one, people who work in law enforcement know they are legally vested with the authority to detain suspects — an authority that must sometimes be enforced. Regardless of what happened with Mike Brown, in the overwhelming majority of cases it is not the cops, but the people they stop, who can prevent detentions from turning into tragedies.

Working the street, I can’t even count how many times I withstood curses, screaming tantrums, aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone, and outright challenges to my authority. In the vast majority of such encounters, I was able to peacefully resolve the situation without using force. Cops deploy their training and their intuition creatively, and I wielded every trick in my arsenal, including verbal judo, humor, warnings and ostentatious displays of the lethal (and nonlethal) hardware resting in my duty belt. One time, for instance, my partner and I faced a belligerent man who had doused his car with gallons of gas and was about to create a firebomb at a busy mall filled with holiday shoppers. The potential for serious harm to the bystanders would have justified deadly force. Instead, I distracted him with a hook about his family and loved ones, and he disengaged without hurting anyone. Every day cops show similar restraint and resolve incidents that could easily end up in serious injuries or worse.

Sometimes, though, no amount of persuasion or warnings work on a belligerent person; that’s when cops have to use force, and the results can be tragic. We are still learning what transpired between Officer Darren Wilson and Brown, but in most cases it’s less ambiguous — and officers are rarely at fault. When they use force, they are defending their, or the public’s, safety.

Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?

I know it is scary for people to be stopped by cops. I also understand the anger and frustration if people believe they have been stopped unjustly or without a reason. I am aware that corrupt and bully cops exist. When it comes to police misconduct, I side with the ACLU: Having worked as an internal affairs investigator, I know that some officers engage in unprofessional and arrogant behavior; sometimes they behave like criminals themselves. I also believe every cop should use a body camera to record interactions with the community at all times. Every police car should have a video recorder. (This will prevent a situation like Mike Brown’s shooting, about which conflicting and self-serving statements allow people to believe what they want.) And you don’t have to submit to an illegal stop or search. You can refuse consent to search your car or home if there’s no warrant (though a pat-down is still allowed if there is cause for suspicion). Always ask the officer whether you are under detention or are free to leave. Unless the officer has a legal basis to stop and search you, he or she must let you go. Finally, cops are legally prohibited from using excessive force: The moment a suspect submits and stops resisting, the officers must cease use of force.

But if you believe (or know) that the cop stopping you is violating your rights or is acting like a bully, I guarantee that the situation will not become easier if you show your anger and resentment. Worse, initiating a physical confrontation is a sure recipe for getting hurt. Police are legally permitted to use deadly force when they assess a serious threat to their or someone else’s life. Save your anger for later, and channel it appropriately. Do what the officer tells you to and it will end safely for both of you. We have a justice system in which you are presumed innocent; if a cop can do his or her job unmolested, that system can run its course. Later, you can ask for a supervisor, lodge a complaint or contact civil rights organizations if you believe your rights were violated. Feel free to sue the police! Just don’t challenge a cop during a stop.

An average person cannot comprehend the risks and has no true understanding of a cop’s job. Hollywood and television stereotypes of the police are cartoons in which fearless super cops singlehandedly defeat dozens of thugs, shooting guns out of their hands. Real life is different. An average cop is always concerned with his or her safety and tries to control every encounter. That is how we are trained. While most citizens are courteous and law abiding, the subset of people we generally interact with everyday are not the genteel types. You don’t know what is in my mind when I stop you. Did I just get a radio call of a shooting moments ago? Am I looking for a murderer or an armed fugitive? For you, this might be a “simple” traffic stop, for me each traffic stop is a potentially dangerous encounter. Show some empathy for an officer’s safety concerns. Don’t make our job more difficult than it already is.

Community members deserve courtesy, respect and professionalism from their officers. Every person stopped by a cop should feel safe instead of feeling that their wellbeing is in jeopardy. Shouldn’t the community members extend the same courtesy to their officers and project that the officer’s safety is not threatened by their actions?

Obviously, its your fault for making their job "more difficult than it already is."
 

Valhelm

contribute something
Victim blaming at his finest. If Michael Brown really didn't want to get shot, he shouldn't have been Black at night.
 
I'm not anti-police but this sounds ridiculous to me. Police have killed men who were not challenging them before so it's not that easy. The issue is extremely complicated, can't just blame victims in every case.

normal_Cartman%20Cop.jpg
 

Siegcram

Member
So victim-blaming and full on caps-lock? What a compelling argument.
Not to mention there are probably hours of tape out there at tis point proving he's full of shit.

That this is coming from an LAPD officer is just the cherry on top. Fuck this guy.
 
Oh thank God, now we don't have to argue with people who think the cops are only here for our protection. He openly admits fascism.
 

Foffy

Banned
I woke up maybe about 10 minutes ago. Are we sure the Onion didn't hack the Washington Post?

The whole thing reads like an egoic victim blaming sort of piece.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I woke up maybe about 10 minutes ago. Are we sure the Onion didn't hack the Washington Post?

The whole thing reads like an egoic victim blaming sort of piece.

I closed my browser and returned to the Post to make sure it wasn't some sort of elaborate Onion troll.
 

Kayhan

Member
Let me translate:

"Accept my absolute authority over you for the duration of this encounter and maybe I won't shoot you."
 
I learned at an early age that this is the unfortunate truth. It's not right and their shitty fucking attitude makes my blood boil but yeah it's not a battle you will win on the streets or the courtroom.
 
We have a justice system in which you are presumed innocent; if a cop can do his or her job unmolested, that system can run its course. Later, you can ask for a supervisor, lodge a complaint or contact civil rights organizations if you believe your rights were violated. Feel free to sue the police!

This is the biggest fucking load of putrid bullshit and this guy knows it perfectly well. The system doesn't "run its course". Complaints go unheard, requests go ignored, and any action from civil rights organizations get equally ignored.

This guy hasn't the faintest clue what the fuck he's talking about. Did he not see the footage of police arresting journalists (WAY fucking illegal, by the way) in the Ferguson protests and completely refusing to give their name and badge?

Corrupt cops aren't just bullies on the street. They go back to the station and cover their asses in every possible way. This whole article is a crock of bullshit and they know it perfectly well. All he wants is people to obey his orders like braindead docile animals on tranquilizers because it makes his job easier. He has zero interest in protecting anybody's rights or empathizing with the situation going on in Ferguson right now.
 
And you don’t have to submit to an illegal stop or search. You can refuse consent to search your car or home if there’s no warrant (though a pat-down is still allowed if there is cause for suspicion). Always ask the officer whether you are under detention or are free to leave. Unless the officer has a legal basis to stop and search you, he or she must let you go. Finally, cops are legally prohibited from using excessive force: The moment a suspect submits and stops resisting, the officers must cease use of force.

You have rights!

But if you believe (or know) that the cop stopping you is violating your rights or is acting like a bully, I guarantee that the situation will not become easier if you show your anger and resentment. Worse, initiating a physical confrontation is a sure recipe for getting hurt. Police are legally permitted to use deadly force when they assess a serious threat to their or someone else’s life. Save your anger for later, and channel it appropriately. Do what the officer tells you to and it will end safely for both of you. We have a justice system in which you are presumed innocent; if a cop can do his or her job unmolested, that system can run its course. Later, you can ask for a supervisor, lodge a complaint or contact civil rights organizations if you believe your rights were violated. Feel free to sue the police! Just don’t challenge a cop during a stop.

But you totally don't have rights.
 

pj

Banned
How can you disagree with this? They have the guns, they will win an altercation.

Resisting arrest is about the stupidest thing you can do. Being required to comply with police orders is the entire basis of policing. Are we supposed to be allowed to say "no thanks, I don't feel like being arrested today"?

I'm not anti-police but this sounds ridiculous to me. Police have killed men who were not challenging them before so it's not that easy. The issue is extremely complicated, can't just blame victims in every case.

So it's better to resist and likely get injured or killed than to comply and probably not get injured or killed?
 

Kayhan

Member
Does this mean they can basically shoot you if they feel like it?

I mean, aggressive walking that could be fucking anything.
 

Monocle

Member
Finally, cops are legally prohibited from using excessive force: The moment a suspect submits and stops resisting, the officers must cease use of force.
Oh. That should make everybody feel better. All you need to do is "STOP RESISTING!*"

* Resistance has a fluid definition and may include such activities as struggling for breath or convulsing from an electric shock.
 

Badgerst3

Member
Ok- I will be that guy. This article actually has some merits if you truly read it.

Angry gaf- sign up for a police ride along some time. It's so easy to judge from afar.

There is no doubt police/community relations need repairing, in many parts of the country.

How about the ak47 rifle toting maniac who on Monday shot a lapd cop in the leg and was bent for more carnage before being stopped.
 

Sai-kun

Banned
Ok- I will be that guy. This article actually has some merits if you truly read it.

Angry gaf- sign up for a police ride along some time. It's so easy to judge from afar.

There is no doubt police/community relations need repairing, in many parts of the country.

How about the ak47 rifle toting maniac who on Monday shot a lapd cop in the leg and was bent for more carnage before being stopped.

cmon

we don't hold gun-toting maniacs to the same standard that we hold law enforcement to
 
Ok- I will be that guy. This article actually has some merits if you truly read it.

Angry gaf- sign up for a police ride along some time. It's so easy to judge from afar.

There is no doubt police/community relations need repairing, in many parts of the country.

How about the ak47 rifle toting maniac who on Monday shot a lapd cop in the leg and was bent for more carnage before being stopped.

It's a tough job. It's a tough job when you sign up for it.

You know what I didn't sign up for? Being shot in the street indiscriminately because I'm black. Being forced to comply with illegal search and seizure methods in order to avoid the imminent threat of death.
 

Zombine

Banned
Most of the bolded sounds like the thought process of a rapist. Just be good and take what he's giving you. Don't struggle and you won't get hurt.
 

El Odio

Banned
Can't read the article but I'm sure the comments section is full of people agreeing with IG with a shit ton of up votes.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Here's the thing. All this shit:

Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me.

Comes with the fucking job. If you don't like it, you are free to find a new one away from law enforcement.

If I shoot, pepper spray, taser, strike with a baton or thrown anybody just for running his mouth or aggressively walking towards me (whatever that means) I'll be rightfuly accused of assault -at very least- and thrown into jail. For a person charged with the duty of enforcing the law and keeping the peace I expect even higher standards of conduct.

This man is a bully making bully excuses. He can fuck right off.
 
I would have largely agreed with the article (if not necessarily the tone) if the author had simply said "cops probably won't shoot you if you respect their authority". As it is he makes it sound like sheepish submission is the quickest, safest route out of any police encounter and doesn't account for that dangerous minority who wake up every morning and think "I'm going to make someone feel as shitty as I do today". Is being respectful towards police an easy way of defusing an otherwise tense situation? Yes. Do criminals usually instigate an altercation where there wasn't one before? Sure. But to pass it off as some universal axiom that respecting police will guarantee safety is ludicrous.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
Most of the bolded sounds like the thought process of a rapist. Just be good and take what he's giving you. Don't struggle and you won't get hurt.

That's a really terrifying point. I bet the need for power and validation, especially over people who they view as lesser, drives both groups to do terrible things.
 

Prologue

Member
Waiting for the defense force to come justify this.

I know they will.

I'm sorry but I agree to an extent. If you get stopped, you comply. Don't get aggressive, don't get physical. Be polite and courteous. A man died like two weeks ago in NY from a choke hold from an NYPD officer. I hope the officer gets the book thrown at him and his pension stripped. But when you see almost a dozen officers around you, you STFU and you comply.


We live in a world where people are so self absorbed in their "busy" lives. Do you honestly think its rare for people not to let out their daily frustrations during a unrelated police stop? I use to have an unnecessary attitude whenever I came across a cop, there was no reason for it. If you feel they crossed the line, write down their badge number, file a complaint and even get a lawyer if you feel its necessary.
 
Ok- I will be that guy. This article actually has some merits if you truly read it.

Angry gaf- sign up for a police ride along some time. It's so easy to judge from afar.

There is no doubt police/community relations need repairing, in many parts of the country.

How about the ak47 rifle toting maniac who on Monday shot a lapd cop in the leg and was bent for more carnage before being stopped.
You realize the bolded section makes anything else he says invalid, correct?
 
"here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?"

These are all WORDS. So long as it's not a threat of any kind or impeding investigation, you can say whatever the fuck you want to police. You can argue, call them names, tell them they can't stop you, and tell them you'll sue them. It means nothing. You can even flip them off. This guy is an idiot. Him saying that those actions merit getting shot, pepper-sprayed, struck, and/or thrown to the ground is disturbing.
 
This guy hasn't the faintest clue what the fuck he's talking about. Did he not see the footage of police arresting journalists (WAY fucking illegal, by the way) in the Ferguson protests and completely refusing to give their name and badge?

From his speech:

Having worked as an internal affairs investigator,

He knows exactly what he's talking about. It is why he is lying through his teeth.
 
I'm sorry but I agree to an extent. If you get stopped, you comply. Don't get aggressive, don't get physical. Be polite and courteous. A man died like two weeks ago in NY from a choke hold from an NYPD officer. I hope the officer gets the book thrown at him and his pension stripped. But when you see almost a dozen officers around you, you STFU and you comply.

"They killed him, but it only happened because they outnumbered him 12 to 1 and had him completely subdued without threat of reprisal. It was his own fault, what an idiot."


We live in a world where people are so self absorbed in their "busy" lives. Do you honestly think its rare for people not to let out their daily frustrations during a unrelated police stop? I use to have an unnecessary attitude whenever I came across a cop, there was no reason for it. If you feel they crossed the line, write down their badge number, file a complaint and even get a lawyer if you feel its necessary.

For the fucking record, nobody is forcing people to sign up as law enforcement. Nobody is demanding these people put their lives on the line. Choosing to be an officer is a personal decision. That means those onerous civil rights citizens get so uppity about don't need to bother anyone. If you, as an officer, don't have the patience to deal with people calling you names without responding with violence....how about you stop being an officer?

Please tell the many, many, many, many, many people arrested (or, alternatively, "detained") with no charges in Ferguson that they have legal recourse after being released.
 
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