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[Topher]

I started playing Infamous again on PS3 and I'm playing on the same LG 4K OLED TV where I play my other games. The game has not aged very well graphically, but more than that, the latency in the controls is just bad. Just running around the streets, the delay is noticeable and I'm constantly having to compensate. My TV is setup in game mode just like my PS5 is and at this point, I've just attributed the latency largely to the horrible frame rate (<30), but still.....seems worse than it should.

As an experiment, I brought my old Samsung 32" LCD 1080p TV out of retirement to see if there would be a difference with the TV not having to upscale as much. Can't say that it helped much with visuals, but I was surprised to find that the controls now seem to have much less latency.

Does this make sense? I only engage in these tech discussions on a surface level as I'm not neared educated enough on these things so asking my tech friends on GAF, why would this be the case? Or am I just imagining this?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I think we both know the problem here, Topher

 

[The Lunch Legend]

Does your telly have a gaming mode?

 

[Topher]

I think we both know the problem here, Topher

Does your telly have a gaming mode?

Yeah. Both of them are using gaming mode.

 

[FrankWza]

I wonder if it's something a service remote can fix. I know bluetooth is on with no commercial option to turn off. Maybe wifi increases latency as well? Try a new hdmi cable with the highest possible bandwidth too. Also try a wired controller from a reputable company.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

It's probably simply down to a rocky 30fps on an OLED.

I did a similar thing recently as I've been playing through the Resistance trilogy through PS+ streaming before the first two disappear at the end of the month (I own then physically on PS3 but wanted to stress test streaming and honestly can't tell much of a difference) and I pulled out my Sony PS3 3D Display (the 24" one they sold for a little bit) and the game felt better both playing natively on PS3 versus my C2 and via streaming on PS5 versus my C2.

30fps just doesn't feel great on an OLED even more then it already doesn't feel great.

Your old Samsung definitely has more delay and input lag.

 

[Topher]

It's probably simply down to a rocky 30fps on an OLED.

I did a similar thing recently as I've been playing through the Resistance trilogy through PS+ streaming before the first two disappear at the end of the month (I own then physically on PS3 but wanted to stress test streaming and honestly can't tell much of a difference) and I pulled out my Sony PS3 3D Display (the 24" one they sold for a little bit) and the game felt better both playing natively on PS3 versus my C2 and via streaming on PS5 versus my C2.

30fps just doesn't feel great on an OLED even more then it already doesn't feel great.

Your old Samsung definitely has more delay and input lag.

So the Samsung has more input lag, but you are saying the OLED is what is making it feel even worse?

I wonder if it's something a service remote can fix. I know bluetooth is on with no commercial option to turn off. Maybe wifi increases latency as well? Try a new hdmi cable with the highest possible bandwidth too. Also try a wired controller from a reputable company.

I've tried it wired with my DS3 and it wasn't any better.

 

[Bojji]

I have PS3 with OLED B2 and latency is very low.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Have you checked the latency on each tv to compare them? Maybe that is part of the problem?

 

[PurePlatinum]

DS3 latency is higher than DS4 or DualSense...this is probably compounding with the 30FPS on an OLED, and probably a setting flipped somewhere that is giving you issues.

When I play 7th gen games I try to do it on as small of a flat-screen as possible...it's for the best that they aren't blown up too big.

 

[rubik's dude]

Do you have a PC capable of running RPCS3? You could try running the game on the emulator and see if you still have the issue. If not, it may be something other than the game causing it.

 

[Topher]

Have you checked the latency on each tv to compare them? Maybe that is part of the problem?

How would I check the latency?

DS3 latency is higher than DS4 or DualSense...this is probably compounding with the 30FPS on an OLED, and probably a setting flipped somewhere that is giving you issues.

When I play 7th gen games I try to do it on as small of a flat-screen as possible...it's for the best that they aren't blown up too big.

Only setting I am aware of is making sure the TV is in game mode. Are there others I should check?

 

[Topher]

Do you have a PC capable of running RPCS3? You could try running the game on the emulator and see if you still have the issue. If not, it may be something other than the game causing it.

Unfortunately I only have a digital copy of the game otherwise I would rip it with my bluray player.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

So the Samsung has more input lag, but you are saying the OLED is what is making it feel even worse?



I've tried it wired with my DS2 and it wasn't any better.

30fps is notoriously bad on OLED. Some people are gonna be more prone to it than others.

If you google 30fps on OLED you will find countless links about how bad it is.

I think it's more that it "feels" worse then it actually being worse if that makes sense.

Infamous was basically unplayable for me when I tried it a couple months ago.

 

[Topher]

30fps is notoriously bad on OLED. Some people are gonna be more prone to it than others.

If you google 30fps on OLED you will find countless links about how bad it is.

I think it's more that it "feels" worse then it actually being worse if that makes sense.

Yeah, it is almost unplayable on OLED. I also have a Sony 32" LCD 4K TV. I might give that shot instead of the Samsung and compare it that way.

 

[Trogdor1123]

How would I check the latency?

I just googled it for my TVs.i have idea how to determine it.

 

[Trilobit]

I started playing Infamous again on PS3 and I'm playing on the same LG 4K OLED TV where I play my other games. The game has not aged very well graphically, but more than that, the latency in the controls is just bad. Just running around the streets, the delay is noticeable and I'm constantly having to compensate. My TV is setup in game mode just like my PS5 is and at this point, I've just attributed the latency largely to the horrible frame rate (<30), but still.....seems worse than it should.

As an experiment, I brought my old Samsung 32" LCD 1080p TV out of retirement to see if there would be a difference with the TV not having to upscale as much. Can't say that it helped much with visuals, but I was surprised to find that the controls now seem to have much less latency.

Does this make sense? I only engage in these tech discussions on a surface level as I'm not neared educated enough on these things so asking my tech friends on GAF, why would this be the case? Or am I just imagining this?

I play my Switch games on my 1080p monitor instead of on my 4K OLED because it masks the blemishes and makes it overall a better experience. Don't know much about latency though. But I can see how consoles that were built for Full HD TVs function the best on them. For example, I've been playing Wii games on my CRT TV recently and they look absolutely crisp and wonderful. Especially Cave Story surprised me.

 

[Topher]

I just googled it for my TVs.i have idea how to determine it.

Ah...ok. When I get a chance I'll try to find the actual model number on the back of my TV and google it. I think hououinkyouma00 is probably right and this is just a matter of 30fps games playing horribly on OLED

I play my Switch games on my 1080p monitor instead of on my 4K OLED because it masks the blemishes and makes it overall a better experience. Don't know much about latency though. But I can see how consoles that were built for Full HD TVs function the best on them. For example, I've been playing Wii games on my CRT TV recently and they look absolutely crisp and wonderful.

I kinda wish I still had my old CRT. Had a Sony Wega Trinitron back in the day. I bet this game would look fantastic on that thing even if it did weigh a ton.

 

[Trilobit]

I kinda wish I still had my old CRT. Had a Sony Wega Trinitron back in the day. I bet this game would look fantastic on that thing even if it did weigh a ton.

Holy smokes, that must have been mouth-salivatingly beautiful. Why did you get rid of it?

 

[Topher]

Holy smokes, that must have been mouth-salivatingly beautiful. Why did you get rid of it?

Thugs broke into my house and stole it. Not kidding. Lived in a bad area at the time and while I was at work they busted down the front door in broad daylight. Good ole Montgomery, Alabama.

 

[nkarafo]

I gave up on TVs and now only gaming in fast, VRR, high refresh rate monitors, for the lowest input lag possible. The difference between that and my current TV is staggering.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Ah...ok. When I get a chance I'll try to find the actual model number on the back of my TV and google it. I think hououinkyouma00 is probably right and this is just a matter of 30fps games playing horribly on OLED



I kinda wish I still had my old CRT. Had a Sony Wega Trinitron back in the day. I bet this game would look fantastic on that thing even if it did weigh a ton.

Yeah probably. I don't see it changing from different system to system

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

30fps on OLED

 

[TGO]

Call me crazy but I believe the game mode on most current TV's aren't like they was on older TV's.
When I say this I mean there seems to be still some processing going on, unlike the older sets that game mode was basically PC mode Chroma 4:4:4 with no latency with a pure direct feed.
Despite the obvious improvements I'm not 100% convinced that's what we're getting on newer models.

 

[Dacvak]

If you have an iPhone, download Is It Snappy and test out the latency for yourself.

Definitely doesn't make any sense that you would have less latency on your older TV compared to an LG OLED, since those TVs have famously low latency.

‎Is It Snappy?

‎Use your iPhone's high-frame-rate camera to measure the input-to-output latency of your text editor, device, game console, or television. Simply record a video containing the button press and the resulting effect on the screen. Is It Snappy? provides a frame-accurate scrubbing UI where the...

apps.apple.com

 

[Topher]

If you have an iPhone, download Is It Snappy and test out the latency for yourself.

Definitely doesn't make any sense that you would have less latency on your older TV compared to an LG OLED, since those TVs have famously low latency.

‎Is It Snappy?

‎Use your iPhone's high-frame-rate camera to measure the input-to-output latency of your text editor, device, game console, or television. Simply record a video containing the button press and the resulting effect on the screen. Is It Snappy? provides a frame-accurate scrubbing UI where the...

apps.apple.com

I'll try that. Thanks

 

[Celcius]

I think this thread just convinced me not to get an OLED for my next TV
I still do some 30 fps gaming at times, especially with the Switch

 

[kevboard]

that definitely shouldn't be possible.
modern LG and Samsung TVs have basically the same latency no matter the input resolution, and have barely more latency in fact than a CRT would have.

(CRT @ 60Hz = 8.3ms lag, LG/Samsung @ 60Hz= 9.4~9.9ms lag)

 

[Topher]

that definitely shouldn't be possible.
modern LG and Samsung TVs have basically the same latency no matter the input resolution, and have barely more latency in fact than a CRT would have.

(CRT @ 60Hz = 8.3ms lag, LG/Samsung @ 60Hz= 9.4~9.9ms lag)

Googling, I'm seeing other complaints regarding OLED and 30fps.

30 fps unplayable on OLED, alternatives?

Hi I dont know if this is the correct subforum, so please move the thread if this isnt the right place. This is for me a pretty big issue, and Im a little surprised I didnt read about it despite all the research I did before bying my TV, so I think it may be of help to others if the thread can...

forum.beyond3d.com

 

[TGO]

Googling, I'm seeing other complaints regarding OLED and 30fps.

30 fps unplayable on OLED, alternatives?

Hi I dont know if this is the correct subforum, so please move the thread if this isnt the right place. This is for me a pretty big issue, and Im a little surprised I didnt read about it despite all the research I did before bying my TV, so I think it may be of help to others if the thread can...

forum.beyond3d.com

This is well known but ignored, PC monitors are the same.
That's why they say it's unplayable while everyone else is scratching their heads.
The problem is with the TV/Monitor but people put the blame on the games.
When buying a OLED you just gotta remember 90% of content will stutter without Cinema Motion on, and with games you don't want that on so you're going to get stutter and there's no fix other than to only play at 60fps.

 

[Fess]

I've never had an OLED TV…Why are they so bad for 30fps???
And with all the OLED praise for like a decade how did people enjoy last gen consoles? Or Switch? And why do people want OLED on Switch 2???

 

[kevboard]

Googling, I'm seeing other complaints regarding OLED and 30fps.

30 fps unplayable on OLED, alternatives?

Hi I dont know if this is the correct subforum, so please move the thread if this isnt the right place. This is for me a pretty big issue, and Im a little surprised I didnt read about it despite all the research I did before bying my TV, so I think it may be of help to others if the thread can...

forum.beyond3d.com

yes but that's not latency, it's just less smooth looking due to the fast pixel response time.

imo you get used to it after a while.
I personally prefer a clean image over a "smoother" one... which is why I also always turn off motion blur, even in 30fps games

 

[StereoVsn]

According to ChatGPT (o4-mini high) and this makes sense:

Yes—paradoxically, OLED's ultra‑fast pixel switching makes low‑frame‑rate judder and the gaps between frames more visible, whereas the slower GtG transitions of an LCD actually help mask that judder.

1. Instant on/off = zero blur, but zero masking
   OLED pixels switch in under 1 ms, so each 30 fps frame (33 ms long) is displayed as a perfectly crisp still image with virtually no trailing or blending. That means when your graphics card submits the same frame four times to a 120 Hz panel, your eye sees four identical, unmoving frames, then a sudden jump—making the stutter between frames glaringly obvious .
2. Slower LCD response "fills in" missing motion
   By contrast, LCD pixels often take 5–10 ms (or more) to change state. That blurs each frame slightly into the next, acting like a crude interpolation that hides some of the judder and perceptual lag at 30 fps. The smear of an LCD panel softens the freeze‑and‑jump effect, so low‐fps motion "feels" smoother even though the actual input‑to‑display delay is the same.

The takeaway:

• Actual input lag isn't higher on OLED, but the perception of lag is amplified when you remove the motion‑blur "cushion."
• To tame 30 fps judder on OLED, you can enable features like low‑framerate compensation (VRR/LFC) or black‑frame insertion if your TV supports them—but ultimately, higher frame‑rates (60 fps+) will always feel markedly smoother on any display.

 

[MikeM]

CRT is the only real viable answer my man. Part of the problem is we have adapted to modern gaming which is fairly low latency.

I gave up on TVs and now only gaming in fast, VRR, high refresh rate monitors, for the lowest input lag possible. The difference between that and my current TV is staggering.

OLED TVs are plenty quick for gaming. At 120fps/8.3ms frametime, panels have basically half a frame of latency.

 

[kevboard]

The takeaway:

• Actual input lag isn't higher on OLED, but the perception of lag is amplified when you remove the motion‑blur "cushion."

hey, chat GPT talking nonsense again, who'd have thought?
this makes no logical sense. if the pixels respond faster, it should in fact lower the perceptible input lag...

it conflates "lag" aka frame drops with input lag.

 

[MikeM]

According to ChatGPT (o4-mini high) and this makes sense:

Yes—paradoxically, OLED's ultra‑fast pixel switching makes low‑frame‑rate judder and the gaps between frames more visible, whereas the slower GtG transitions of an LCD actually help mask that judder.

1. Instant on/off = zero blur, but zero masking
   OLED pixels switch in under 1 ms, so each 30 fps frame (33 ms long) is displayed as a perfectly crisp still image with virtually no trailing or blending. That means when your graphics card submits the same frame four times to a 120 Hz panel, your eye sees four identical, unmoving frames, then a sudden jump—making the stutter between frames glaringly obvious .
2. Slower LCD response "fills in" missing motion
   By contrast, LCD pixels often take 5–10 ms (or more) to change state. That blurs each frame slightly into the next, acting like a crude interpolation that hides some of the judder and perceptual lag at 30 fps. The smear of an LCD panel softens the freeze‑and‑jump effect, so low‐fps motion "feels" smoother even though the actual input‑to‑display delay is the same.

The takeaway:

• Actual input lag isn't higher on OLED, but the perception of lag is amplified when you remove the motion‑blur "cushion."
• To tame 30 fps judder on OLED, you can enable features like low‑framerate compensation (VRR/LFC) or black‑frame insertion if your TV supports them—but ultimately, higher frame‑rates (60 fps+) will always feel markedly smoother on any display.

Correct. In lower fps gaming, a slower GTG pixel response time is actually better to "smooth out" the judder.

 

[StereoVsn]

hey, chat GPT talking nonsense again, who'd have thought?
this makes no logical sense. if the pixels respond faster, it should in fact lower the perceptible input lag...

it conflates "lag" aka frame drops with input lag.

Read the whole thing. Issue is instant on pixels in OLED introducing perception of lag.

 

[Topher]

yes but that's not latency, it's just less smooth looking due to the fast pixel response time.

imo you get used to it after a while.
I personally prefer a clean image over a "smoother" one... which is why I also always turn off motion blur, even in 30fps games

Response time or latency.....whatever we want to call it, the controls are sluggish on OLED vs LCD. I played Infamous for several hours and no closer to getting used to it. No options for motion blur in this game either way. This is a game made before we started getting options.

 

[kevboard]

Response time or latency.....whatever we want to call it, the controls are sluggish on OLED vs LCD. I played Infamous for several hours and no closer to getting used to it. No options for motion blur in this game either way. This is a game made before we started getting options.

well, that's a subjective thing then, a placebo effect basically. because the input response on a modern LG is objectively speaking far better than any 1080p Samsung LCD ever had.
I assume (without an exact model number for either) your old Samsung will have around 30ms of lag, while your LG has less than, or around 10ms.

try turning on Black Frame Insertion. this should give you a more obvious double image effect in 30fps, which could look smoother.

 

[ReasonBeing]

My family just moved 2500 miles across country, and we don't have all our stuff yet. I picked up a 50 inch 1080p television on Facebook marketplace for 20 bucks to get us by, and holy shit is the input lag awful. It's legit a better experience to remote play on my Quest 3. I can see my TV in passthrough, and it is behind the image in my headset.

 

[StereoVsn]

Response time or latency.....whatever we want to call it, the controls are sluggish on OLED vs LCD. I played Infamous for several hours and no closer to getting used to it. No options for motion blur in this game either way. This is a game made before we started getting options.

Yep, this is why I use an older 1080P LCD for PS3. I have been eying Retrotink 4K and I wonder if that could help at all, but doubt it.

 

[kevboard]

My family just moved 2500 miles across country, and we don't have all our stuff yet. I picked up a 50 inch 1080p television on Facebook marketplace for 20 bucks to get us by, and holy shit is the input lag awful. It's legit a better experience to remote play on my Quest 3. I can see my TV in passthrough, and it is behind the image in my headset.

yup. there's a reason back when the Wii U released that everyone reported that the Wii U gamepad has less latency than playing on TV.
the Wii U gamepad had around 25 to 33 ms of lag, while most TVs had 30ms at best (mostly Samsung TVs) and easily went up to above 50ms (Sony TVs being especially awful among the top brands).

and there were even TVs that completely lacked Game Modes, like Loewe TVs, which had more than 100ms of lag

you could legit use the Wii U gamepad to test if a TV had decent input lag back then.

 

[apple_of_enlightenment]

Upscaling is the likely offender. Try turning it off and use native res.

 

[ReasonBeing]

CRT is the only real viable answer my man. Part of the problem is we have adapted to modern gaming which is fairly low latency.

OLED TVs are plenty quick for gaming. At 120fps/8.3ms frametime, panels have basically half a frame of latency.

Before becoming familiar with input lag and response time, I remember a specific instance that really had me baffled. I had a CRT for the first two years of Xbox 360 ownership. I loved Geometry Wars and could regularly get my score into the millions.

When I finally got my 32 Samsung LCD, I was pumped to be able to utilize the extra screen real estate that the widescreen aspect ratio offered, but to my dismay, my average score plummeted. Looking back, I know why, but the 19 year old console gaming only version of me just couldn't figure out what was going on.

Edit: this is why the nearly 40 year old version of me now has all my older consoles (Genesis, PS2, PS3, 360, and Wii) hooked up to a 27" CRT.

 

[kevboard]

Upscaling is the likely offender. Try turning it off and use native res.

LG TVs in game mode have no settings on that add latency.
this seems to be a 100% subjective issue due to missing persistence blur

 

[apple_of_enlightenment]

I started playing Infamous again on PS3 and I'm playing on the same LG 4K OLED TV where I play my other games.

You are using the PS3's HDMI out, right? Modern TVs can have latency when converting from analog signals (component and composite).

 

[Topher]

You are using the PS3's HDMI out, right? Modern TVs can have latency when converting from analog signals (component and composite).

Yes, HDMI. Dang....wish I still had my old component cables to try.

well, that's a subjective thing then, a placebo effect basically. because the input response on a modern LG is objectively speaking far better than any 1080p Samsung LCD ever had.
I assume (without an exact model number for either) your old Samsung will have around 30ms of lag, while your LG has less than, or around 10ms.

try turning on Black Frame Insertion. this should give you a more obvious double image effect in 30fps, which could look smoother.

I never said older LCD had objectively better lag, latency, etc. than OLED. As I said in my original post, I was surprised that it was the case. The difference is quite noticeable.

I haven't seen BFI settings but I'll try to find it.

 

[kevboard]

I never said older LCD had objectively better lag, latency, etc. than OLED. As I said in my original post, I was surprised that it was the case. The difference is quite noticeable.

yes, but that just can't be objectively true, it has to a subjective thing, your brain basically tricking you. the game looking less smooth makes sense, but the latency should be markedly lower on the LG. unless something is set wrong in your TV settings on your LG of course. I'm not sure if LG has a Game Mode motion inteprolation feature like Samsung has. on a modern Samsung OLED, enabling Game Mode motion inteprolation will increase your lag from 9.5 to around 30 ms.

I haven't seen BFI settings but I'll try to find it.

BFI will give you CRT-like strobing which leads to a more easily perceivable double image effect, basically one image bleeding into the next one, as your eyes react too slowly to the strobing image. this can in theory increase the perceived smoothness and is why many think 60fps on a CRT looks smoother than on an LCD/OLED

 

[hououinkyouma00]

I gave up on TVs and now only gaming in fast, VRR, high refresh rate monitors, for the lowest input lag possible. The difference between that and my current TV is staggering.

Modern OLED tvs and monitors are so close I highly doubt most people would be able to tell the difference.

Back in the day it was super noticeable.

I think this thread just convinced me not to get an OLED for my next TV
I still some 30 fps gaming at times, especially with the Switch

I own a LG C2 but I've actually been thinking about just getting one of the Hisense U8s instead.

I love OLED but I play a lot of older content as well as playing a pretty bright room and the x4 brightness would be nice.

 

[Kuranghi]

Modern OLED tvs and monitors are so close I highly doubt most people would be able to tell the difference.

Back in the day it was super noticeable.


I own a LG C2 but I've actually been thinking about just getting one of the Hisense U8s instead.

I love OLED but I play a lot of older content as well as playing a pretty bright room and the x4 brightness would be nice.

If you're buying soon: The new U8Q should be crazy bright and have great dimming capability but the outgoing 2024 model, U8N, will be a better purchase until Black Friday when the new one has fallen to a much lower price point.

So try and buy in the next few months if you're going to do it, this is the UK market where I reside that I'm talking about, the 2024 model may go on much longer in other markets such as the US.

Be aware that the 75U8N and 55, 75 and 100" U8Q use ADS panels vs the VA in the other sizes, they have much worse contrast vs the VA sizes, since viewing angle performance will not be a factor when you use it as a gaming display (I assume you'll be sitting straight on to it) then there's basically no upsides to them.

TL;DR - Buy a 65" U8N, 65 or 85" U8Q to get a far superior contrast panel over the other sizes.