Launching a Kickstarter campaign on an E3 press conference
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Omega Kirby
Member
Nintendo announces their own kickstarter project Half life 3
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It's probably some kind of deal that got formed last E3 when Cerny and others were meeting with Yu Suzuki. They probably worked out an agreement for console exclusivity in exchange for an on-stage announcement of the Kickstarter and possible funding assistance contingent on backer interest.
I do agree it's really weird and probably would be completely unacceptable if it were any other game.
I do agree it's really weird and probably would be completely unacceptable if it were any other game.
Gambit 1138
Banned
Its embarrassing is what it is
Listen to this man for you know not what you do. Do you all want to see more publishers turning to kickstarter to further offset the risk of development? I sure as hell don't. Funding games is literally their job they should do that themselves.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Yeah and also some people forget that PC players are also chipping in. This isn't only a Sony deal. Obviously some of the money is going to a PC edition. I think this is totally right for this situation. The uncertainty was definitely there when I first saw the kickstarter announcement but I think for those pitching it, it shows that they are willing to support the game being made in exchange just to play it. I really don't see the bad in it.
Buying games is supporting studios. How is this any different?
blankempathy
Member
Thats pretty much how a lot of people are justifying this. If were say EA trying to get sims 5 funded or ubisoft trying to fund a new ac game people would be in an uproar. Kinda ironic that in a show where time and time again big aaa publishers try to manipulate their customers with initial reveals that are downgraded heavily. cg gameplay trailers. and false promises they just raised 1.24 million dollars on a sequel announcement and nostalgia in less then 4 hours. If shenmue 3 turns out to be a bad game I hope the gaming community blames themselves. But who am I kidding, that won't happen. Funny thing is we've just seen a whole bunch of retro developers get an overwhelmingly positive reaction to new projects and have had their games funded easily. E3 wasn't required. Hope people get the game they want but its so easy to see why publishers get away with some of the stuff they pull.
This is plausible, but the thing for me is that they'll need a hell of a lot more funding assistance, and I'm not sure I can see Sony ponying up the money required. And IMO, it seems inconceivable another publisher would come in with money, as they'd surely want a multi-plat release. And why would Sony agree to that, given they'll have committed money to it?
NoFaceNico
Member
Like a lot of people here I don't understand the controversy because I don't think there is one. It's unusual that Sony plugged a Kickstarter during their E3 conference, but by no means is it wrong or shady, in fact they made it clear it wasn't their game. There's plenty of shady shit that happens on Kickstarter, this isn't one of them.
I don't see that Sony had any obligation or received any benefit (aside from bragging rights) in plugging this Kickstarter. If anyone benefits, it's Shenmue 3. Kickstarters have to beg borrow and steal to get their word into news and social media outlets, having it announced at Sony's E3 conference is second only to an endorsement by the president.
The campaign sure is reaping the benefits of that plug, that's undeniable, and again- nothing wrong with it. We live in an era where a Pewdiepie let's play alone can send sales soaring. I'm really interested to find out how many people who backed it actually played at least one of the previous games. Oh well, the series needs love and I'm glad others will get to experience and enjoy it, even if this is their introduction.
I don't see that Sony had any obligation or received any benefit (aside from bragging rights) in plugging this Kickstarter. If anyone benefits, it's Shenmue 3. Kickstarters have to beg borrow and steal to get their word into news and social media outlets, having it announced at Sony's E3 conference is second only to an endorsement by the president.
The campaign sure is reaping the benefits of that plug, that's undeniable, and again- nothing wrong with it. We live in an era where a Pewdiepie let's play alone can send sales soaring. I'm really interested to find out how many people who backed it actually played at least one of the previous games. Oh well, the series needs love and I'm glad others will get to experience and enjoy it, even if this is their introduction.
Noisepurge
Member
Mushroomer25
Member
It seems like each party screwed over the other in a very distinct way, ultimately cancelling each other out and only burdening the audience.
The Shenmue team gets the biggest stage in gaming for their crowdfunding attempt, and Sony gets to reap all the positivity connected to it.
Gamers get hyped, and then asked to open their wallets to fund the game. It's very cheap looking, regardless of the game.
The Shenmue team gets the biggest stage in gaming for their crowdfunding attempt, and Sony gets to reap all the positivity connected to it.
Gamers get hyped, and then asked to open their wallets to fund the game. It's very cheap looking, regardless of the game.
InsaneZero
Member
Just think of them as blind pre-orders
The one important difference is that there is no refund once the funding period ends.
Valve announces Half Life 3 will release when Wii U sales pass 30 million.
Kwansu Dudes
Member
I was taken aback by the Kickstarter announcement, but this is Fucking Shenmue "deader than disco" 3. This game would never see the light of day if not for this. If Beyond Good & Evil had a kickstarter, would you guys fund it?
Pseudo_Sam
Survives without air, food, or water
F-zero kickstarter
HL3 kickstarter
whatever the fuck else kickstarter
This is not the future I dreamed of
HL3 kickstarter
whatever the fuck else kickstarter
This is not the future I dreamed of
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Sis you been doing a lot but I think you understand and trying hard not to.
This game has no publisher. Let's just put that there.
No one want to really publish this game with their name on it. No one wants to solely be responsible for the crazy amount of money this game will take to make. If that was the case, Nintendo would of stepped in and saved it. They didn't.
#1 I think you are wayy over grossing this situation as something that will happen in the future. Publishers are not ever going to ask for donations for funding games, the same way Movie Publishers and Music Publishers aren't running to GoFund me to help a struggling director or artist to make their album.
This is definitely a unique case for this game that has a large budget that no one wants to commit to and you know this.
#2 I don't get this idea that just because you present a game at a conference that you can't also pitch a funding idea. Just remember that this expo isn't just for the big three and a lot of small developers are actively putting their half ridden games out there for you to purchase, sometimes with an unfinished concept. I feel sometime the idea of a preorder is literally the same thing. Let's not make it seem like we haven't already made commitment to games that are literally just concepts.
#3 In this day and age, I do think that funding will be a large part of what we as gamers will eventually commit to in this form. As I stated above, asking for a donation on a unfinished game is no different than buying a game at launch, you still are supporting a studio who is making this game. If it sucks, you still paid for it.
So let's think about this first of all.
Sony is obviously funding most of the project. One, Shenmue 3 will obviously cost far more than 2 million. Two, Sony isn't going to waste valuable E3 time to promote a Kickstarter project they're not heavily involved in.
Now Shenmue has been defunct for 14 years and was a huge money sink for Sega. It makes complete sense that the money handlers at Sony would want to see some proof of audience before investing who knows how much in reviving this dead franchise.
Taken in a vacuum, I honestly have zero problems with it. But I do realize the precedent it sets and it does make me feel uneasy at what we could see in years to come.
Sony is obviously funding most of the project. One, Shenmue 3 will obviously cost far more than 2 million. Two, Sony isn't going to waste valuable E3 time to promote a Kickstarter project they're not heavily involved in.
Now Shenmue has been defunct for 14 years and was a huge money sink for Sega. It makes complete sense that the money handlers at Sony would want to see some proof of audience before investing who knows how much in reviving this dead franchise.
Taken in a vacuum, I honestly have zero problems with it. But I do realize the precedent it sets and it does make me feel uneasy at what we could see in years to come.
Absoludacrous
Member
This seems divorced from reality. The Sims and Assassin's Creed are the reason Shenmue has to go to kickstarter in the first place. Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, and every other AAA mainstay have contracted the market to the point where risky games like Shenmue can't get made because no one is willing to put themselves out there to do it. Look at how many studios and publishers died in the last ten years trying to put out games in the space where something like Shenmue lives.
This is hilariously stupid logic.
Sony is paying to get the game exclusive on their platform but also want people to kickstart it. It and the fact people are fine with it sets a really bad precedent for all gamers. I don't give a shit about traditional exclusives but DLC exclusives and now major exclusives with a kickstarter like this are absolute fucking garbage.
But hey whatever, fanyboy shit.
Yes, it is those games fault that there hasn't been a Shenmue 3 until now. Not Shenmue 1 & 2 being fucking expensive or the misteps that SEGA made with those two games.
Pseudo_Sam
Survives without air, food, or water
Hell no. I want Animal Crossing in HD 1080p on the WiiU more than anything, but if Nintendo asked me to Kickstart it I'd tell them to go to hell.
InsaneZero
Member
If the Final Fantasy 7 remake had a Kickstarter, would you guys fund it?
If Mirror's Edge Catalyst had a Kickstarter, would you guys fund it?
If Activision decided to start a Kickstarter for a new IP, would you guys fund it?
If every game you thought looked good required some form of irreversible financial buy-in in order to become a reality that you may not actually agree with, would you think that this publisher-consumer relationship might be getting kinda skewed?
FlashFlooder
Member
I don't personally care about Shenmue, but if it means more fan-requested "risky" games (read: not shooty-bangbang) get made, I'm all for it.
This move has kinda set a bad precedent with Kickstarters
Hopefully, it won't get abused by big publishers in the future to fund their small, risky projects by using their fanbase. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if indies started approaching the big three on getting exposure at E3 for their kickstarter projects.
Hopefully, it won't get abused by big publishers in the future to fund their small, risky projects by using their fanbase. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if indies started approaching the big three on getting exposure at E3 for their kickstarter projects.
gamechanger87
Member
Yup. People may not put two and two together.
Want to bring back a long dead franchise? Have a niche fanbase that may spend anything on it? Don't want to risk it yourself? Don't think you can sell enough copies at retail price?
Put it on KS and mitigate risk and allow some users to buy 300 copies at a time.
Game is not well received? Oh well at least we didn't lose as much money.
The floodgates are opened
Sad day indeed. Risk aversion here. We. Go!
Wiktor
Member
The goals is high by KS' standards but yeah..obviously it won't enought. But the more money they get the better position against investors they will have.
NoPiece
Member
Which future is better:
Future 1 - No kickstarter, no Shenmue 3, no Castlevania/Bloodstained, no Mighty No. 9
Future 2: Yes kickstarter, crowdfunded Shenmue 3, crowdfunded Bloodstained, crowdfunded Mighty No. 9
If Nintendo isn't going to make an F-Zero, but would allow it to be kickstarted, then please, bring it on!
Why is that bad if it means more small risky projects get made? Isn't gaming worse now because big publishers focus on big safe AAA titles?
Exploratory
Banned
That's how I feel about almost the entire Sony press conference.
Heavy_D206
Member
If you don't like it then don't pledge your money.
It's that fucking simple.
It's that fucking simple.
HueyFreeman
Banned
Why?
It's basically a Sony-funded PR slot, given how valuable any time during an E3 press conference is.
If you're under the impression that E3 is anything other than PR.... I guess I'm sorry to hear that. Frankly, Sony using it's influence to shine a light on a dead, castaway series, and then letting fans decide whether or not they want to support, is kind of an awesome thing actually.
It's basically a Sony-funded PR slot, given how valuable any time during an E3 press conference is.
If you're under the impression that E3 is anything other than PR.... I guess I'm sorry to hear that. Frankly, Sony using it's influence to shine a light on a dead, castaway series, and then letting fans decide whether or not they want to support, is kind of an awesome thing actually.
gamechanger87
Member
Couldn't Yu just run this kickstarter by himself and go look for funding after? Wouldn't he get the same reaction? Sony likely pushed him to do it to reduce risk.
Wiktor
Member
It would make sense if Shenmue was some hot property publishers were dying to make. But instead it's rotting corpse of a franchise that no publishers will want to get close to.
Kickstarter isn't about indie games. It's about kickstarting something that otherwise wouldn't get made. And Shenmue fits that criterias perfectly.
Absoludacrous
Member
Or maybe you can connect the dots and see that Sega's misteps are the reason you can't put it out in the AAA marketplace that Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed have created.
WowZipZipBoomBoomWow
Banned
I hate the idea of Kickstarting things that don't need crowdfunding, and heavily distrust Kickstarter projects by default. But the fact is people love paying for games in advance, paying extra for bonuses, double dipping to get exclusive content, etc. This being Kickstarter instead of a preorder, demo/beta bundled with another game that isn't as popular, etc. doesn't really change that. People will pay for what they want, and they want Shenmue III.
Outside of Kickstarer, this wouldn't have happened, so the comparison to those other 3 scenarios isn't really valid.
NoFaceNico
Member
Well, I'm starting to understand that some take issue not with the announcement, but the fact that it is available for PS4 and not XBONE and they feel that console exclusivity was traded for a spotlight in Sony's E3 conference. I can see how some can feel wronged. Especially since Shenmue 2 got an Xbox release.
Oh well, it may be cruel to some, but it's a reality of the industry we live in. I don't think it's right for us to question what went on behind closed doors because it's been done and I seriously doubt the Kickstarter would be so well received had it not been for its appearance during the Sony E3 conference. I'm sure it's pulling in people who will be new to the series as a result and because of that I think the Kickstarter would have a very hard time meeting it's goal without it.
And P.S.- Kwansu Dudes, you had a lot of faith in the Shenmue 3 announcement and I didn't. I was making a guess based on how dead the series has been until now and just didn't want to be let down yet again. I was wrong, you were right, I'm sorry I was so critical of the idea behind this.
But now, I feel like anything is possible!!
Absoludacrous
Member
I would rather these floodgates open then a long dead franchise I liked stay long dead. Is there a third option somewhere that I'm missing?
I really don't get why everyone gets up about ethics or "wut do you think E3 is not just PR!?".. I think the OP is kinda clear, or at least I tried. I say why.
it could very well be a "uhhh this gives me a bad vibe" kinda thing but im trying to back it up plenty
there's something weird about people actually coming here to post to say this
if you don't agree without giving proper argument other than "if you don't then don't"... don't post? bit ironic
I agree with most of this post. My caveat is that developers/publishers will only need crowdfunding for projects that don't seem to have any mainstream appeal or are part of semi-failed franchises. We've already seen what the revival of old games have done on the PC front, so it's not that surprising to see it happen with console games as well. In a lot of cases, this is going to be the only way for a beloved title to have new entries, and I have a hard time imagining PC gamers complaining about it.
Kwansu Dudes
Member
Adrian's thoughts are my mine as well. Beyond Good & Evil wasn't as good of a comparison but I usually see a lot of longing for it so I used it.
I can see it from your perspectives as well, but I have no doubt the gaming community would voice its displeasure when publishers start abusing kickstarter and make them think twice. Shenmue is a very, very isolated case.
I feel like this is a weird case compared to something like FF7 because Yu and the franchise have nothing to do with Sony really.
I think, say MS, trying to Kickstart Banjo Threeie would be a far different situation.
I think if this sets any kind of immediate precedent it might be future titles like Bloodstained/Yooka Laylee ending up propped up by Sony or MS exclusivity on consoles and a PC release.
I can already see the bidding war now between MS/Sony to get a Kojima Kickstarter when he breaks free.
I think, say MS, trying to Kickstart Banjo Threeie would be a far different situation.
I think if this sets any kind of immediate precedent it might be future titles like Bloodstained/Yooka Laylee ending up propped up by Sony or MS exclusivity on consoles and a PC release.
I can already see the bidding war now between MS/Sony to get a Kojima Kickstarter when he breaks free.
InsaneZero
Member
If people are willing to put up this much money for a rotting corpse of a franchise that no publishers will want to get close to, then what do you think publishers will do with actual hot properties?
AmuroChan
Member
Most likely not. Shenmue 3 is going to take a lot of money to make. It's too risky to KS it for $2M first and then hope to find investors that will put in another $30M + marketing into the pot to actually make the game. It's the same situation that Iga was in with Bloodstained.
Giolon
Member
You can connect the dots however you want, doesn't mean your picture is accurate.
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