Jag
Member
Law School is fine. It's what comes after that drains your soul.
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Law School & Lawyer GAF
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Law School is fine. It's what comes after that drains your soul.
ZackieChan
Member
I did Barmax, mostly because I got a discount and it came with an iPad. I thought it was fine, though I redid all the flash cards and put them into a spaced repetition program. That worked out really well as far as memory and recall goes. The BarBri flash cards I saw had similar issues - they just put too much on each card. It's ridiculous.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
No one gives a shit. Do well on your LSAT. That's it.
95% of your application is some relatively even split between the LSAT and your undergrad GPA, and the rest of your existence is the remaining 5%.
Got it...was still fun though, will do again.
Advocatus Diaboli
Member
Law school was a blast. Best 3 years of my life. I put in moderate effort my 1L year, made a ton of friends, and coasted my 2L and 3L years while dabbling in internships and working as a research assistant. I also spent time dating grad students. It wasn't nearly as much work as undergrad, where I studied three widely divergent subjects. The stories of cutthroat competition, 18-hour workdays, and the dreaded Socratic method are entirely overblown.
Obviously, YMMV, but I found the material easy. Never did any "outlines," either; I took some notes in textbooks instead. So, here's some advice: don't make yourself hyper-anxious because you've heard horror stories, but do come out of the gate strong and put in more effort your first semester. You can always dial it back later.
Finally, your first semester classes are going to be the standard staple things we've all studied for decades. If your torts professor can't explain proximate cause in a compellingly digestible way, the Internet can help. As far as constitutional law goes, all of the major cases are on Wikipedia -- not for analysis, but to summarize the facts of the case and put certain cases in historical context. I remember teaching myself contracts because my professor was a shambling mound of mumbles. Plus, you can always ask for help, too.
You can do it!
The only question is whether you actually WANT to be a lawyer. Get out while you still can.
Thank you both for the feedback. It all makes more sense now— some of those same attorneys I mentioned who have said only good things about law school seem to not enjoy their work, so I can see why some GAFers post negativity about the law profession.
Jag
Member
For what its worth, when I started out in litigation at a law firm in NYC I looked at older trial attorneys and for the most part they were miserable about the profession and other lawyers. I then went transactional and ultimately to in-house for the past 18 years and I have been very happy with it.
Like any job, you need to like what you do. I hated being a litigator so I changed it to something I found more interesting. I have worked with plenty of litigators that are perfectly happy doing it. I send most of my local litigation to a friend of mine who loves what he does. Again, it's just finding whats right for you.
Sirpopopop
Member
Jag
Member
Sorry didn't mean to be a downer. It's really not that bad. I'm probably (one of) the oldest here having graduated from Law School in 94. For me there have been way more ups than downs and I was a really shitty student.
I think most of my friends really had a fun time in law school. Of course, we all went through law school before the economy collapsed, so that might impact things. At the same time, and as I've posted before here, most of them wouldn't go to law school if they could go back in time and have the choice again.
Advocatus Diaboli
Member
Yeah, I don't mean to be a downer either. I went an entirely different route, disavowing the firm route altogether and joined the military instead. I've had a lot of amazing experiences, and when that ends -- my next gig will be prosecuting Guantanamo detainees -- I'll probably shift into consulting or policy work altogether. I've got no desire to be a lawyer on the outside.
Basically, there are many paths to success and enjoyment, and to the best of your ability, you need to identify what you can actually stomach. If you don't want to be a lawyer, don't force it. I'm not going to say "there's a ton of things you can do with a J.D.!" because, frankly, there aren't; but there are some, especially those that are attainable with a bit of experience, that don't involve some of the soul-sucking drudgery we're all afraid of.
ZackieChan
Member
I was a mediator in small claims court for a while, where they are all pro se. It was torture. Neither side understands how the legal system works or how terrible their evidence/case is. I feel your pain!
Frank the Great
Banned
I'm doing the same thing right now as one of my functions as a law clerk. I actually don't mind it though.
Pollux
Member
Ugh. I'm responding to an ineffective assistance of counsel motion. It's 62 pages. Front and back. Hand written on loose leaf. With two lines of text per line of paper. Fuck.
I figured that. I just thought the juxtaposition was funny.
ZackieChan
Member
#dead
Yeah, it was actually pretty cool. Trying to cajole them into settling when they think their terrible evidence is enough to win a case is a little trying, though! I had some genuinely awesome "mediator" moments, though. I had a lady start crying once, and calmed a guy down who seemed like he was ready to fight. Van Nuys, CA is a crazy place.
Are you first chair or second chair? If second chair, do you have any sections of the trial you're responsible for?
DoktorEvil
Banned
Hey Lawyers, I have a question about contracts.
Can any person amend a contract, or does it have to be by a lawyer?
For example, a mortgage or credit card application when it comes to terms and APR.
Can any person amend a contract, or does it have to be by a lawyer?
For example, a mortgage or credit card application when it comes to terms and APR.
Then practice your opening statement and prepare to examine those two witnesses.
Anyone can amend a contract though it (generally) requires the consent of all contracting parties for the amendments to be accepted. I would point out that applications for credit cards or mortgages are not contracts. They're invitations to you to make an offer to contract with the company for credit or loans. They're free to reject your alterations and decline your offer, or make you a counter-offer by sending you a contract/credit card/loan documents with the original terms and APR as outlined in their application.
Yeah, 1L is just systematic hazing specifically designed to be as miserable as possible. In comparison, 2L and 3L are absolute breezes. Bar studying in the summer is 3 months of misery, but it's more of a test of doing the bare minimum of the work to pass the bar of minimum competence.
The true test is the soul crush after getting in the field (or the grind job search before eventually getting somewhere).
DoktorEvil
Banned
Then practice your opening statement and prepare to examine those two witnesses.
Anyone can amend a contract though it (generally) requires the consent of all contracting parties for the amendments to be accepted. I would point out that applications for credit cards or mortgages are not contracts. They're invitations to you to make an offer to contract with the company for credit or loans. They're free to reject your alterations and decline your offer, or make you a counter-offer by sending you a contract/credit card/loan documents with the original terms and APR as outlined in their application.
I mean when I was to say go to closing on a car loan, can I negotiate my terms and cross out things I don't find fair and reasonable in that contract? With all of the Youtube celebrities signing contracts like Machinimas "lifetime" contract, I'd like to know that I can make changes to a contrac without necessarily needing a lawyer there alongside.
Also, when a contract is signed, can it be amended post signature?
Yes, you can always negotiate the terms of your contract BEFORE you sign them, but keep in mind they're not obligated to accept your alternative terms. From a fundamental standpoint, the contract to purchase that car that you're presented with is an offer, which you can either accept, reject, or make a counteroffer. By altering the terms of the contract you've issued a counteroffer, and put the ball in their court, so to speak, at which point they can either accept your offer, reject it, or make a counteroffer.
No clue about the youtube thing.
All contracts can be amended post-signature by the agreement of the parties or by any mechanism for amendment included in the contract.
Advocatus Diaboli
Member
It gets better.
Sometimes.
Enjoy law school while you can. You can make really good friends there, and it's the easiest way to build further networking options down the road. Plus, this is probably the last time you'll be a full-time student. That is more fun than being in the real world, I assure you.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
received my graduation regalia today.
the end is near.
the end is near.
I'm just a bitter 2L at a T14 who missed out on biglaw. Otherwise I probably wouldn't hate it so much.
SouSouRocket
Member
Finally took the plunge, I'm mailing off my articles of incorporation for my LLC tomorrow and I'm opening my own practice. We have a decent court appointment system for family law and crim defense so you can count on a few cases at a time at least while you search for retained clients. I'm nervous but it feels good to have my work be worth $$ for goddamn once.
Congrats!
Missed out on biglaw? Just let it go.
Jag
Member
It's where I met my wife ... 22 years ago!!
I think Advocatus Diaboli is in the JAG corp.
TrueGrime
Member
Cool! I do have a question. My GF will be heading to the AF early next year. We have been dating for about 3 years. I am an E7 in the Marines and she will be a 1st Lt when she completes OCS and JAG training. She was told that we would have to be married before she gets commissioned even though the chances of us getting stationed together are slim. We weren't ready for marriage just yet but that might come up sooner or later. Just wanted to get a second opinion on the fraternization policy for the AF.
Not in the military, but after reading the section of the UCMJ dealing with Fraternization (Article 134), the gist seems to be that it depends upon the context of the relationship. Given that you are in different branches of the armed forces I think it would be unlikely that your relationship would make her subject to discipline for fraternization, unless your relationship in some way violated a "regulation[], directive[], [or] order[]."
Here's the explanation of Fraternization straight from the UCMJ:
Note: Article 92 deals with dereliction of duty.
I'm also not sure how the dating/marriage between branches works with regards to where you are stationed. That would be another issue to look into.
Jag
Member
vonStirlitz
Unconfirmed Member
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ZackieChan
Member
Congrats! Now stop watching that RuPaul show and get to work!
EvilKatarn
Member
That is really encouraging after having serious doubts about my career choice this final year of my bachelor's degree. Like, I can't even force myself to study most of the time and last semester I studied for most exams literally the night before and took them without sleep.
Got a job this week though so maybe it'll make me value time better and hopefully I'll get my motivation back.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Pollux
Member
For Contracts read Calamari and Perillo on Contracts.
For Torts pick up something from the Understanding series published by LexisNexis. You could do that for contracts as well, but the Calamari and Perillo book is the best I've read on the subject.
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