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[God Dayumm]

Damn dude, you must know some really pathetic 30 year olds.

I know, it pains my heart

 

[jblank83]

Damn.

How about MDMA causing depression later in life due to the serotonin levels.

No idea. I've never researched it. I wouldn't be surprised, but I would also guess it wouldn't happen with just one or two exposures. If it was chronic use, yes.

Then why we not raise the majority age for almost everything including voting and joining the military, consenting age that is usually lower than 18 in most states.

I wouldn't have a problem with that. I'm sure the military would, though.

 

[Frozenprince]

So what actual scientific health benefits were the reason for this bill? I hate these raising the legal age thing, either make everything 21 or everything 18. No more in-between shit.

 

[God Dayumm]

Would you also increase the consent age to 21?

 

[iPaul93]

Good.Hopefully smoking will be banned in the future.

 

[Frozenprince]

The human brain isn't done maturing until the mid 20s. The parts of your brain that stops you from doing stupid things isn't full matured, nor is the part that helps you feel empathy for others, nor the part that keeps you from blowing up at small stressors.

Beyond that, certain substances are very damaging to the growing brain. Marijuana use in teen years hugely increases the risk of developing schizophrenia, for example.

No, it doesn't. There has been no significant uptick in adolescent schizophrenia despite the incredibly large increase in adolescent marijuana use. What happens is that those that smoke and develop it or schizotypal personality disorder is that it acts as a triggering or precipitating event. This event can be attributed to any number of causery or contributing factors.

It doesn't "hugely" increase the risk of developing schizophrenia.

 

[Parch]

You realize that 18 is just an arbitrarily picked age for adulthood that became the norm when secondary/high school being completed became the norm and instituted in law and has nothing to actually do with whether one truly is an adult or not, right? It's not based on any science as the decision was made decades before the science was actually in. According to the science, the brain doesn't actually finish development until 24/25.

Correct. It's not just coming up with an age that people think should be considered adult. Instead of just opinion, the science about brain development strongly suggests that adulthood should be considered at least 21, not 18.

It's a fair argument that decision making could be age 18, but anything chemical that could affect brain development like tobacco and alcohol should be age 21. Enforcement is difficult, but just making it less accessible for purchase cuts down usage.

 

[SecretMoblin]

....This thread is bizarre.

You can be out of high school for 3 years, have a full-time job, a family, and a home, but apparently to many you should be denied fundamental rights like voting or access to constitutional protections because you're not quite as likely to be "fully emotionally mature". And all this is made easier by the fact that you're shut out from access to financial independence, as well as the ability to travel, move, and find employment easily.


I get that plenty of folks waste time in college and delay the responsibilities of actual adulthood, but restricting the rights and abilities of your peers because you used the privilege of that extra time to develop an absurd, poorly-constructed sense of righteousness isn't the proper way to reduce harm in a society.


Gawk at the list of scientifically illiterate societies that allow mere children to have these rights at 18. If only we shared the progressive vision of Namibia and Gabon, consider the "reduced harm"!

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

Active military would be exempt.

Good with that. I still believe if you are an adult at 18, you get everything that comes with it (drinking, buying a handgun, rental car, etc...). Or we raise the adult age itself to 21. None of this in between picky choosy shit.

 

[jblank83]

No, it doesn't. There has been no significant uptick in adolescent schizophrenia despite the incredibly large increase in adolescent marijuana use. What happens is that those that smoke and develop it or schizotypal personality disorder is that it acts as a triggering or precipitating event. This event can be attributed to any number of causery or contributing factors.

It doesn't "hugely" increase the risk of developing schizophrenia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2424288/

"Regular cannabis use predicts an increased risk of schizophrenia, and the relationship persists after controlling for confounding variables. The relationship is unlikely to be explained by self-medication. There is increasing evidence that the association is biologically plausible, but given the complex nature of the aetiology of schizophrenia and related disorders, it is unlikely that the relationship will be due to an interaction between cannabis use and a single gene. Uncertainty about the biological mechanisms should not distract us from using educational, psychological and social interventions to reduce the use of cannabis by vulnerable young people and thereby the risk of problems related to its use. "

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24904437

"... Exposure to cannabinoids in adolescence confers a higher risk for psychosis outcomes in later life and the risk is dose-related. Individuals with polymorphisms of COMT and AKT1 genes may be at increased risk for psychotic disorders in association with cannabinoids, as are individuals with a family history of psychotic disorders or a history of childhood trauma. The relationship between cannabis and schizophrenia fulfills many but not all of the standard criteria for causality, including temporality, biological gradient, biological plausibility, experimental evidence, consistency, and coherence. At the present time, the evidence indicates that cannabis may be a component cause in the emergence of psychosis, and this warrants serious consideration from the point of view of public health policy. "

http://www.northwestern.edu/newscen...ve-abnormal-brain-structure--poor-memory.html

"Marijuana Users Have Abnormal Brain Structure and Poor Memory
Drug abuse appears to foster brain changes that resemble schizophrenia"

etc etc

 

[devilhawk]

Thinking about it, I think they should make it harder or more expensive for everyone to get instead of this 18-21 year old divide.

 

[teruterubozu]

Thinking about it, I think they should make it harder or more expensive for everyone to get instead of this 18-21 year old divide.

Cigarette prices have increased exponentially over the years, and there are still more laws coming to increase them many states. You can only go so far before it becomes straight up gouging.

 

[antonz]

Smoking cigarettes has been on a massive decline for years now. The Youth more than ever is relying on "medical" weed and non "medical" weed for their go to smoking habit.

Smoking is at record lows among people in the United States. Yes it would be ideal if no one did it but there are so many more pressing matters at this point

 

[NullPointer]

Cigarette prices have increased exponentially over the years, and there are still more laws coming to increase them many states. You can only go so far before it becomes straight up gouging.

Its already gouging. They're super addictive.

 

[olympia]

....This thread is bizarre.

You can be out of high school for 3 years, have a full-time job, a family, and a home, but apparently to many you should be denied fundamental rights like voting or access to constitutional protections because you're not quite as likely to be "fully emotionally mature". And all this is made easier by the fact that you're shut out from access to financial independence, as well as the ability to travel, move, and find employment easily.


I get that plenty of folks waste time in college and delay the responsibilities of actual adulthood, but restricting the rights and abilities of your peers because you used the privilege of that extra time to develop an absurd, poorly-constructed sense of righteousness isn't the proper way to reduce harm in a society.


Gawk at the list of scientifically illiterate societies that allow mere children to have these rights at 18. If only we shared the progressive vision of Namibia and Gabon, consider the "reduced harm"!

In the context of this thread, smoking isn't exactly a fundamental right.

Smoking cigarettes has been on a massive decline for years now. The Youth more than ever is relying on "medical" weed and non "medical" weed for their go to smoking habit.

Smoking is at record lows among people in the United States. Yes it would be ideal if no one did it but there are so many more pressing matters at this point

Yes, smoking has gone down, but vaping among minors has tripled in the past year alone.

I think what people critical of this bill are failing to understand is this law accompanies other regulatory laws, because it's truly an effort to keep kids from vaping. One such law is that e-cigs and similar devices will now be regulated as tobacco products.

As I mentioned before, some 18 years olds are still in high school which creates a proximity link between retailers and minors. Will it stop minors from vaping outright? No, but it'll make it a great deal harder for them to get their hands on it. The government isn't going to stand by and let a public health risk happen.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

The human brain isn't done maturing until the mid 20s. The parts of your brain that stops you from doing stupid things isn't full matured, nor is the part that helps you feel empathy for others, nor the part that keeps you from blowing up at small stressors.

Beyond that, certain substances are very damaging to the growing brain. Marijuana use in teen years hugely increases the risk of developing schizophrenia, for example.

It's a correlation not a causation.

Taken together, there are compelling biological explanations for how cannabis exposure during adolescence could have adverse effects on brain development, particularly that of the PFC. However, in the majority of teenagers who use cannabis, schizophrenia does not develop, suggesting that there must be additional factors that render the brain of a high-risk adolescent exquisitely sensitive to the effects of cannabis. Specific gene polymorphisms, such as ones within the COMT or AKT1 genes seem likely candidates,26–28 although a single polymorphism is unlikely to explain this association. Elucidating these factors should be a major focus of ongoing research.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3937283/?report=classic

 

[Oblivion]

This is very bad politics. Hope Brown vetoes it.

 

[TAJ]

I'd like to see some consistency. This is like saying that signing 18yos up for the military is exploitation, which is not going to make you very popular in 'Muricah.

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

keep it at 18. people who smoke know the risks, raising it to 21 is just going to get them to get a boot

 

[styl3s]

So now you can join the military to fight but still can't drink or smoke.

Rather odd still. I have no connection to cigarettes. More of a green person if I must say.

I never understood the connection between fighting for your country and smoking chemicals or drinking poison, what's one thing have to do with the other? I have 0 problems with them raising it to 21 but it's not going to stop people from smoking especially the teens who are already getting them before the legal age.

 

[Drkirby]

I don't think raising the age to 21 would really help. All its going to do is lead to a bunch of fines for college aged kid, I can't see it actually changing the demographics smoking habits. All you are going to do is create a bunch of low tier drug dealers who sell cigarettes to underaged adults.

 

[Korey]

Isn't the amount of people who smoke anymore ridiculously low?

 

[cpp_is_king]

Next raise it to 65

 

[Magwik]

I think it's a great idea actually, at least in the context of high schoolers. Cigarettes are more accessible for those under 18 when some of their classmates can be upwards to 18yo. Making them less accessible to 18yos makes them less accessible to those under 18.

 

[TAJ]

Isn't the amount of people who smoke anymore ridiculously low?

Not at all. Like 15%.

 

[thelastcrusader]

So you can serve in the military, become a stripper, do pornography, and get in debt for tens of thousands of dollars for the rest of your life, but you can't smoke a cigarette? Fuck off California.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

I never understood the connection between fighting for your country and smoking chemicals or drinking poison, what's one thing have to do with the other? I have 0 problems with them raising it to 21 but it's not going to stop people from smoking especially the teens who are already getting them before the legal age.

It's not really a connection, but it's a certain absurdity the law will let a legal adult sign some of their life away to the government (or all of it, if you die), but they won't let them consume known and legal hazardous chemicals (nor will they let them vote, which is a whole 'nother can of worms). Eh. Seems just absurd, but it makes sense in how armies work, so...

 

[HariKari]

This sort of morality shouldn't be legislated. You can volunteer to die for your country but can't smoke a cigarette?

 

[TAJ]

I think it's a great idea actually, at least in the context of high schoolers. Cigarettes are more accessible for those under 18 when some of their classmates can be upwards to 18yo. Making them less accessible to 18yos makes them less accessible to those under 18.

You mean like how no one in high school ever drinks? As long as there are homeless guys teens will buy what they want.

 

[LT Snoshado]

GOOD! Smoking is crap and the less access minors have to it, the better!

 

[TAJ]

GOOD! Smoking is crap and the less access minors have to it, the better!

Equal rights suck!

 

[enzo_gt]

So you can serve in the military, become a stripper, do pornography, and get in debt for tens of thousands of dollars for the rest of your life, but you can't smoke a cigarette? Fuck off California.

With respect to this argument, specifically:

Makes a lot of sense, actually. Only one of those things actively endangers others by putting them at risk of second hand smoke/cancer. And I'm ok with giving people a few more years to think about this.

Won't stop people at younger ages, and everyone matures at different rates, but yeah, I don't have a problem with stricter regulation for net negative activities.

A lot of talk in this thread about the good it might not do, but not really any compelling reasons why raising this age is detrimental exactly.

 

[UberLevi]

If you can legally join the military, vote for the future members of your government, consent to sex, drive a vehicle, and work a job then I think you should be able to buy your vices.

 

[UraMallas]

If you can legally join the military, vote for the future members of your government, consent to sex, drive a vehicle, and work a job then I think you should be able to buy your vices.

Those aren't all the same age, though. Are you advocating to bump up the driving, sex and job ones or bump everything else down? You can get a job at 14 in some states, FYI.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

Oh shit this is crazy. I've been off cigs for about 6 months now, good to hear. I'm sure if it was 21 age limit when I was 18 I wouldn't have started smoking in the first place.

 

[SeanC]

As with drugs and alcohol, people know the risks at this point. I don't see why pushing it to 21 matters much. Certainly keep it at 18, but you'd do more to steer young adult smokers away by raising cig taxes more than pushing up the age.

 

[Mashin Haters]

Can someone with more knowledge explain why vaping products get regulated the same as tobacco products? Aren't they inherently less dangerous? Or is there not enough data?

It has nicotine in it

 

[Jeff Vader]

This is very bad politics. Hope Brown vetoes it.

Has he vetoed any legislation yet?

 

[A Link to the Past]

If you can legally join the military, vote for the future members of your government, consent to sex, drive a vehicle, and work a job then I think you should be able to buy your vices.

I don't think voting is a fair comparison to smoking/drinking.

 

[Rivitur]

I'm sure all those 13 year olds around here who smoke are laughing at cali right now. Hell I know people who started smoking weed at 12 before they ever touched a cig.

 

[whitehawk]

Should be 18 for everything.

 

[fleck0]

Like a lot of nicotine addicts I wish I had never started, so I'm cool with any measures to make cigarettes less available. On the other hand I like my ecig and a lot of this legislation seems to spill onto those. The best course of action is to avoid it all together, but it's a hell of a drug.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Playing Devil's Advocate, but a lot of the defense for raising the minimum age is that when you're 18, your brain is still developing and you're still maturing. Thus waiting could reduce your urge to smoke, and not smoking would avoid stunted development.

So, 25? Like renting a car without higher premiums?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Playing Devil's Advocate, but a lot of the defense for raising the minimum age is that when you're 18, your brain is still developing and you're still maturing. Thus waiting could reduce your urge to smoke, and not smoking would avoid stunted development.

I mean, I get that, but shouldn't we then also wait until someone's brain is developed and they are mature before letting them commit years of their life to the military?

 

[Drkirby]

So, 25? Like renting a car without higher premiums?

I don't think that has anything to do with laws, that is just standard practice in the industry.

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

So an 18 year olds brain is mature enough to know if racking up $50k in loan debt or signing up for the military is the right thing to do but they can't make the decision to smoke? Come on, either you are an adult or you aren't.

 

[Liamario]

I'm mixed on this yeah smoking is bad and all but once you hit 18 the choice should be yours.

18 is just an arbitrary number. Most 18 year olds aren't yet fully cooked to make a lot of adult decisions. This is a good move. 21 year olds, I have to imagine, are much less likely to make a stupid decision like picking up smoking.

It's a three year difference, honestly I don't really care. Difference between 18 and 21 is arbitrary. I will say that the 21 limit probably helps keep it out of high school though.

I don't necessarily fully agree that 21 is an arbitrary number, but obviously people under 21 will find away to get cancer sticks. I think the law makers realise this and so by increasing the legal age, it'll make it harder for younger kids to start the habit. There's method in the madness.

 

[GamerJM]

It's a three year difference, honestly I don't really care. Difference between 18 and 21 is arbitrary. I will say that the 21 limit probably helps keep it out of high school though.

I don't necessarily fully agree that 21 is an arbitrary number, but obviously people under 21 will find away to get cancer sticks. I think the law makers realise this and so by increasing the legal age, it'll make it harder for younger kids to start the habit. There's method in the madness.

I dunno, the difference between 21 and 18 seems kind of negligible. I'd understand it more if they changed it to like, 25 or 28, since that's a significant amount of years. But three years isn't very long. I'm 21 right now and I look, act, and feel basically the same way I did when I was 18.

 

[GamerJM]

Sorry, double post.

 

[Jharp]

I started at 20 and am currently 27 and trying to quit. Nearly all of my friends started at 15-16.

This law strikes me as incredibly silly and useless.