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[Ferrio]

This is just not my day. 20 minutes of pure pain.

Not the worst team ever... then I looked at summoner spells.

 

[dimb]

I really don't know what to say Blizzard. You are saying you have no survivability but you spec into Utility instead of Defense. From the problems you're stating there are clearly fundamental flaws with the way you are playing that you aren't noticing. Follow the mastery page I posted above on this page.

Whatever guide you are using, or builds you are running I am going to recommend that you stop. They are terrible and the builds you seem set on and are awful. First of all, Sheen is a no on GP jungle. Don't do it. It's pointless. Item build is going to be Wriggles, Boots. Do those first. That is your whole early game. Once you have that you should never ever have mana problems jungling. And don't get Infinity Edge early game unless you are dominating. Go for something tankier like a Phage into Frozen Mallet, or just straight Warmog's. After that get Atma's for the crit, armor, and AD bonus. Then maybe you can go Infinity Edge. Or go tankier if you are still dying.

You should not be having mana problems with GP. He can be mana hungry to clear fast but as the jungler you should have no qualms about taking the first two blue buffs, and with it he pretty much has infinite mana, and will have enough left over to go do blue again by the time it is up (without having to spec into utility).

I haven't watched your GP, but my guess as to why you are using so much mana is that you are doing your skill order wrong and are abusing your Raise Morale. Just max Parrrley first, then Raise Morale. Only use Raise Morale right before starting a camp and if you have loads of mana (you should with blue buff).

I literally just have no idea what you are talking about though. I don't know how you can have early game mana problems as GP when you are taking the first blue. And your HP problems should be pretty much non-existent as long as you pop your pots (and it doesn't really matter if you run out by the time you clear golems because you can solo small camps for gold after that without pots because of the health creeps give back). You don't need much more than half HP to gank. You're supposed to outnumber your enemy.

 

[Boken]

That's what one would think, but when I try unorthodox routes and such I always end up with no health, no mana, no gold, 3 levels behind, that sort of thing. I feel like with gangplank I either need to rush the jungle as quickly as possible (losing most of my health in the process and/or using up all my health potions by the time I finish golems), without ganking, or else I'm behind on levels and hugely behind on gold...unless I go sit in someone's lane after ganking (which probably failed), and then I'm stealing their XP.

If I were using a 21/9/0 mastery set instead of 21/0/9 it would be even worse since blue would run out more quickly.

It kinda sounds like youre jungling inefficiently and ganking poorly. GP is a strong ganker - you should take advantage of this. Once you get your wriggles, you shouldn't be running out of mana or HP for any reason...

21/0/9 is the correct GP jungling build.

EDIT: GP isn't exactly one of the easiest junglers. His sustain is very average and his clear speed is average too. You should probably pick an easier jungler!

 

[Blizzard]

I really don't know what to say Blizzard. You are saying you have no survivability but you spec into Utility instead of Defense. From the problems you're stating there are clearly fundamental flaws with the way you are playing that you aren't noticing. Follow the mastery page I posted above on this page.

Do you consider the slight defense boost from 9 more important than red and blue buffs lasting longer though?

Whatever guide you are using, or builds you are running I am going to recommend that you stop. They are terrible and the builds you seem set on and are awful. First of all, Sheen is a no on GP jungle. Don't do it. It's pointless. Item build is going to be Wriggles, Boots. Do those first. That is your whole early game. Once you have that you should never ever have mana problems jungling.

I do get those first. I usually take a very long time to get wriggles and boots though. Do you have a time estimate for when they should be done? If I clear the jungle and nearly die on the top golems, I think I usually have enough gold (350-400) so I can end up with armor and boots, possibly buying one more health pot at the same time.

And don't get Infinity Edge early game unless you are dominating. Go for something tankier like a Phage into Frozen Mallet, or just straight Warmog's. After that get Atma's for the crit, armor, and AD bonus. Then maybe you can go Infinity Edge. Or go tankier if you are still dying.

Warmog's has been nerfed. Do you still consider it worth it? I'm pretty sure I've also been yelled at to get more crit instead of the tanky stuff, that sort of thing. Mixed messages!

You should not be having mana problems with GP. He can be mana hungry to clear fast but as the jungler you should have no qualms about taking the first two blue buffs, and with it he pretty much has infinite mana, and will have enough left over to go do blue again by the time it is up (without having to spec into utility).

Note that without spec'ing into utility, the blue buff runs out even faster, and I feel like it runs out faster than it used to with the new jungle, but this may just be psychological. What is the timing for how long blue buff lasts now without utility, and how often does blue buff spawn? I need to find some recent guide that lists these things I guess.

I haven't watched your GP, but my guess as to why you are using so much mana is that you are doing your skill order wrong and are abusing your Raise Morale. Just max Parrrley first, then Raise Morale. Only use Raise Morale right before starting a camp and if you have loads of mana (you should with blue buff).

I have been told, maybe by MULTIPLE people, that I should focus on raise morale first, and NOT parley for jungle GP. People in the games I'm playing with jungle GP tell me this. I think people have even told me I should be doing it so it's why I'm doing bad in the jungle, guides presumably say to max it first, etc. What argument do you have against it -- the high mana cost?

I literally just have no idea what you are talking about though. I don't know how you can have early game mana problems as GP when you are taking the first blue. And your HP problems should be pretty much non-existent as long as you pop your pots (and it doesn't really matter if you run out by the time you clear golems because you can solo small camps for gold after that without pots because of the health creeps give back). You don't need much more than half HP to gank. You're supposed to outnumber your enemy.

Do you suggest getting a leash for blue or letting the mid person stay mid so they can keep XP? I may be able to speed up jungle slightly if I kill one or two wolves before blue buff. And remember that soloing small camps for gold won't give you much gold (due to new jungle changes), and if you start with armor and boots, you won't have lifesteal so the health you gain back from small camps seems likely to be about the same amount of damage you take, no?

Ganking with half health is an iffy strategy for me early game since I am trying to get first blood bonus, and if I get stunned, hit an enemy jungler, or mess up at all, that remaining 300-400 HP I have will be gone very quickly (especially if I gank before I get boots so I can't chase or run away).

Thanks for the detailed input.

21/0/9 is the correct GP jungling build.

Thank you.

 

[Ferrio]

Think my next jungle pick might be skarner... maybe udyr?. I need a really really strong jungler. Riven is alright, but her ganks sometimes can be a little awkward. Shyvana is the same story. She jungles better, but when she goes to gank I feel helpless unless they're extremely overextended.

 

[dimb]

21/0/9 is the correct GP jungling build.

Why would anyone go nine Utility anymore? It is by far the weakest tree, and GP isn't reliant on buffs at all to where he would need to invest a whopping nine points just to get a 20% duration bonus on buffs.

 

[Blizzard]

Think my next jungle pick might be skarner... maybe udyr?. I need a really really strong jungler. Riven is alright, but her ganks sometimes can be a little awkward. Shyvana is the same story. She jungles better, but when she goes to gank I feel helpless unless they're extremely overextended.

If you can hit skillshots, skarner with drag seems like a very powerful choice right now. Udyr can be really strong but I feel like mileage varies from what I see of him.

 

[Flare]

So I'm learning how to jungle Lee Sin. It's hilarious how he remains practically at full health for the entire duration.

 

[Pjodor]

Think my next jungle pick might be skarner... maybe udyr?. I need a really really strong jungler. Riven is alright, but her ganks sometimes can be a little awkward. Shyvana is the same story. She jungles better, but when she goes to gank I feel helpless unless they're extremely overextended.

Both Skarner and Udyr are strong junglers and easy to jungle with. Stonewall have them both i God Tier, http://rog.clgaming.net/tier-lists/46-jungle/latest

 

[Ferrio]

Wow... free champion rotation this week is setting up fail for a lot of random games.

 

[Boken]

Warmog's has been nerfed. Do you still consider it worth it? I'm pretty sure I've also been yelled at to get more crit instead of the tanky stuff, that sort of thing. Mixed messages!

I have been told, maybe by MULTIPLE people, that I should focus on raise morale first, and NOT parley for jungle GP. People in the games I'm playing with jungle GP tell me this. I think people have even told me I should be doing it so it's why I'm doing bad in the jungle, guides presumably say to max it first, etc. What argument do you have against it -- the high mana cost?


Do you suggest getting a leash for blue or letting the mid person stay mid so they can keep XP? I may be able to speed up jungle slightly if I kill one or two wolves before blue buff. And remember that soloing small camps for gold won't give you much gold (due to new jungle changes), and if you start with armor and boots, you won't have lifesteal so the health you gain back from small camps seems likely to be about the same amount of damage you take, no?

Always get a leash for blue....... get help for wolves before blue too. Anyway, your runepages arent well suited for GP. People take more AS% for GP jungle and for this reason they max Raise Morale first (better ganks, better scaling with jungle)

EDIT: No DIMB, the reason why people max parleyy in the new jungle now is for the free gold. Which is why I think maxing parrleyy is fine too

Why would anyone go nine Utility anymore? It is by far the weakest tree, and GP isn't reliant on buffs at all to where he would need to invest a whopping nine points just to get a 20% duration bonus on buffs.

Simply not being reliant on buffs doesnt change that red itself is incredibly powerful and even more powerful on GP. 20% extra power ganking time for ONE point. You trade jungle survivability for ganking power. Mana has value for GP and each point in the mana/level is worth a quint.

Plenty of people go 9 in utility for junglers : |
But if you're having difficulty in the jungle, 9 defense is a suitable alternative

 

[dimb]

Do you consider the slight defense boost from 9 more important than red and blue buffs lasting longer though?

Yes. 6 free Armor, Magic Resist on top of Tough Skin and Bladed Armor are invaluable for jungling. I don't know how Riot could make it any more blatant that you probably want at least nine points in the Defense tree if you are going to jungle.

I do get those first. I usually take a very long time to get wriggles and boots though. Do you have a time estimate for when they should be done? If I clear the jungle and nearly die on the top golems, I think I usually have enough gold (350-400) so I can end up with armor and boots, possibly buying one more health pot at the same time.

This is the problem. You shouldn't be stopping there. You should either be able to go try a gank or go farm more in the jungle. You are having survivability issues in the jungle. Take the Defensive tree points so you don't. Use your HP pots right when you start to take damage. That stuff. It shouldn't be hard to do one clear of the jungle.

Warmog's has been nerfed. Do you still consider it worth it? I'm pretty sure I've also been yelled at to get more crit instead of the tanky stuff, that sort of thing. Mixed messages!

Warmogs is still amazing, especially on GP because Atma's is clutch on him regardless. Warmogs pairs best with that. As for what you build it depends on the situation. As a top sometimes crit makes sense. As jungle GP you don't want to be playing the random number game. Go tanky.

Note that without spec'ing into utility, the blue buff runs out even faster, and I feel like it runs out faster than it used to with the new jungle, but this may just be psychological. What is the timing for how long blue buff lasts now without utility, and how often does blue buff spawn? I need to find some recent guide that lists these things I guess.

Blue buff is 2:30 with no masteries, 3:00 with Runic whatever it's called. Blue buff respawns every five minutes.

I have been told, maybe by MULTIPLE people, that I should focus on raise morale first, and NOT parley for jungle GP. People in the games I'm playing with jungle GP tell me this. I think people have even told me I should be doing it so it's why I'm doing bad in the jungle, guides presumably say to max it first, etc. What argument do you have against it -- the high mana cost?

Most people are dumb and don't understand the new jungle, and pair that with their old knowledge and outdated guides. Raise Morale used to be the starting point for GP, now it's Parrley. You will clear faster spamming your Q than anything else. The benefits of Raise Morale are nice, but are fairly minor when you need to be clearing quickly. The old jungle was slower where you would pace yourself. Now you want to clear quick.

Do you suggest getting a leash for blue or letting the mid person stay mid so they can keep XP? I may be able to speed up jungle slightly if I kill one or two wolves before blue buff. And remember that soloing small camps for gold won't give you much gold (due to new jungle changes), and if you start with armor and boots, you won't have lifesteal so the health you gain back from small camps seems likely to be about the same amount of damage you take, no?

There is no excuse to not giving a leash on blue unless the jungler is slow to it. They can hit it when it spawns and head to their lane without missing any creeps. Small camps still yield a fair amount of gold, just the smaller minions within them don't. Armor and boots are better for ganking. Lifesteal offers you no benefit when you go to gank. Just buy a few pots if you are going boots after armor.

Ganking with half health is an iffy strategy for me early game since I am trying to get first blood bonus, and if I get stunned, hit an enemy jungler, or mess up at all, that remaining 300-400 HP I have will be gone very quickly (especially if I gank before I get boots so I can't chase or run away).

Then you should play a jungler with safer sustain and escape if you don't trust yourself to not give away first blood.

 

[Blizzard]

Always get a leash for blue....... get help for wolves before blue too. Anyway, your runepages arent well suited for GP. People take more AS% for GP jungle and for this reason they max Raise Morale first (better ganks, better scaling with jungle)

Someone said recently that people near you in the jungle no longer steal XP. Is this the case, or does the person helping with wolves need to run away quickly? Is it best for mid person to do this, or bottom lane? I don't want either mid or bottom to lose much mana or health just trying to get monsters started.

I might have some attack speed runes lying around, but I don't really want to save up for another rune page right now. I was trying to make do with a general AD and AP page. =( Maybe I need to pick another jungler if AS runes are required.

Yes. 6 free Armor, Magic Resist on top of Tough Skin and Bladed Armor are invaluable for jungling. I don't know how Riot could make it any more blatant that you probably want at least nine points in the Defense tree if you are going to jungle.

I will give this a try.

Blue buff is 2:30 with no masteries, 3:00 with Runic whatever it's called. Blue buff respawns every five minutes.

Thanks. So there's 2.5 to 4 minutes without blue depending on where you are on the map and whether you are in position to roam down to blue or whether you are having to defend a turret. Maybe if I use the defensive tree I will not have to use abilities as much so I can last through the non-buff times.

Most people are dumb and don't understand the new jungle, and pair that with their old knowledge and outdated guides. Raise Morale used to be the starting point for GP, now it's Parrley. You will clear faster spamming your Q than anything else. The benefits of Raise Morale are nice, but are fairly minor when you need to be clearing quickly. The old jungle was slower where you would pace yourself. Now you want to clear quick.

How does 1 level of raise morale first sound, then maxing parley with one level of orange juice at level 5?

 

[bjaelke]

So I'm learning how to jungle Lee Sin. It's hilarious how he remains practically at full health for the entire duration.

Yeah, he's very safe. One of the best junglers right now. Ganks are also super strong.

 

[SouthernDragon]

It is complete. The title shall be

League of Legends |OT2| It's so free, it's only 2000 USD!

Let me know when it's cool to post.

 

[Ferrio]

So basic jungle skarner build? Guides seem varied. Latern always a safe bet, but wondering if it's the best since this would be my first mana dependant jungler.

 

[Flare]

It is complete. The title shall be

League of Legends |OT2| It's so free, it's only 2000 USD!

Let me know when it's cool to post.

Are you posting in Gaming or in Community?

 

[Achtius]

It's probably community, make the new thread now and ask a mod to close this one.

and make it $8000 for the pa reference

 

[SouthernDragon]

Evilore asked me to post it in Gaming. I'll change it to 8000.

 

[Blizzard]

It's probably community, make the new thread now and ask a mod to close this one.

and make it $8000 for the pa reference

I think Evilore posted a few pages back and said it can go in the games section for a while to build up the userbase.

It's always nice to have new victims feeders players!

 

[Achtius]

I think Evilore posted a few pages back and said it can go in the games section for a while to build up the userbase.

It's always nice to have new victims feeders players!

...to rage at

 

[SouthernDragon]

...to rage at

No, no, no, you dual queue with them to boost your win ratio, silly.

Also, posting it now! I CAN'T WAIT ANYMORE.

 

[Flare]

No, no, no, you dual queue with them to boost your win ratio, silly.

Really? =(