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[Newt]

i come from dota, but i want something more relaxed: how many time does a lol game require to play? i never play it cause i want all the hero and the runing system seems bad to me...how many time before i can play with the right runex, etc.? also id ont want to pay but i feel like when i will have free money to spend i will unlock heroes, never runes...should i install it or not?

The average game is around 35 minutes, but they can be between like twenty and seventy minutes. How relaxed it is largely depends on the role you play, if you want a relaxed experience definitely avoid the marksmen role.

Tier two runes are fairly cheap, so you should be fine in that regard.

 

[zkylon]

league is not relaxed lol

 

[Newt]

I mean if you're playing like Janna or something its pretty relaxed.

 

[TheFlow]

Soraka can be relaxing

 

[Talents]

Soraka can be relaxing

Unless you're on the other team, then you want to put a bullet through your brain.

 

[23qwerty]

Tier two runes are fairly cheap, so you should be fine in that regard.

and by fairly cheap he means almost free

 

[Orochinagis]

I mean if you're playing like Janna or something its pretty relaxed.

Until the enemy jungler decided to dive into the towah and everyone go kaput

 

[JulianImp]

and by fairly cheap he means almost free

And by that they mean there're even better Tier 3 runes, but those cost an awful lot of in-game currency and can't be bought with real money. You'll need to grind up to Summoner level 30 to unlock all available rune slots too, and that does take some time as well.

As for champions, I'd recommend using the ones on free rotation and buying the ones you like with in-game currency, even though the more expensive champs can take you quite a while to get this way. Every month they announce a set of champions and skins that will be 50% off if purchased with real money, so you can also look into that in order to save quite a bit if you're actually inclined towards paying for the champions themselves.

Finally, regarding LoL being more relaxed than DotA... I guess you won't have to worry about stuff such as denying minions or cutting down trees, but I wouldn't exactly call LoL a relaxing game even in spite of that. It's still a complex team-based pvp game that can get quite vexing at times.

 

[TheFlow]

Newt is right. the game is basically decided by the jungler.

enemy jungler 14/1

our jungler 2/8

and 2/8 ziggs.

sigh. mastery 6 and can't even play their champs right


and yea I lost to a soraka but she wasn't even the prob.

 

[JulianImp]

Newt is right. the game is basically decided by the jungler.

enemy jungler 14/1

our jungler 2/8

and 2/8 ziggs.

sigh. mastery 6 and can't even play their champs right


and yea I lost to a soraka but she wasn't even the prob.

I have long ago stopped caring about champion rank. Even if someone reaches M7, they could've gotten three S games after a hundred D- games for all you know, and getting to M5 is merely about playing a champion a lot, anyway.

Case in point, I'm M5 with Morg and Lulu and yet really suck at playing them nowadays. It might be a bit more reassuring than people telling you they're challenger smurfs in chat, but it's still an awful metric for predicting their in-game performance.

 

[TheFlow]

I have long ago stopped caring about champion rank. Even if someone reaches M7, they could've gotten three S games after a hundred D- games for all you know, and getting to M5 is merely about playing a champion a lot, anyway.

Case in point, I'm M5 with Morg and Lulu and yet really suck at playing them nowadays.

true fair enough.

I am definitely looking at every lost now as "what did I do wrong" before blaming my team.

but I had a soraka lane. not much you can do but hope they make some mistakes or your jungler catches them out.

 

[Newt]

Jungle XP prob just needs to be nerfed again. Make the camps easier as compensation. Wraiths is prob too difficult atm.

 

[JulianImp]

true fair enough.

I am definitely looking at every lost now as "what did I do wrong" before blaming my team.

but I had a soraka lane. not much you can do but hope they make some mistakes or your jungler catches them out.

Yeah, that works. Say, if you "win" but your team feeds, then maybe you could've taken your advantage and used it to roam and help your teammates get back into the game, or splitpushed more to force the enemy team to dillute their resources, or even could've dropped a ward by mid to give your 1/3 Yasuo more prep time against ganks.

Something that might be worth looking into is minion management, since people at low ELO like mine tend to recklessly push all the time, you can use that to your advantage to get your lane pushed (but not all the way into turret!), making the enemy team a lot more vulnerable to ganks while yours is considerably safer (barring dives). Of all the times I was support and saw the enemy team pushing and then waiting for us to push back, a couple times my ADC would listen to my advice of only last-hitting to avoid pushing, and that often resulted in cs advantages for us while they were debating whether to move forward exposing themselves or stay back and allow us to farm while they'd only get ambient gold.

 

[zkylon]

we'll see when lethality gets nerfed, all the top junglers are so strong because lethality items are pretty busted

elise doesn't seem overbearing to me, tho i guess eve being really strong kind of proves that it's not just a lethality thing

in any case, i've said the same thing about the junglers having too much impact a while ago and it feels like it's still true

too many champions in the game dealing too much damage without building it or sacrificing anything for it

i bet the mastery nerfs will help

 

[Newt]

The problem is that lethality is a bandaid fix for ADCs, so if they nerf that ADC will just be a worthless role again.

 

[TheFlow]

starting to feel helpless as a support. no matter great I do in lane and overall. there is always that one teammate who decides to feed their ass off or make bronze decisions.

I am just sitting here wondering how these people make the easiest mistakes and worst picks. thinking they are going to rekt.

 

[killatopak]

The problem is that lethality is a bandaid fix for ADCs, so if they nerf that ADC will just be a worthless role again.

I think it's just the adcs themselves that are the problem.

I don't think I've played in a time where adc were at the right place. They're either too weak or too strong.

I think they should find another substitution for crit.

 

[Orochinagis]

starting to feel helpless as a support. no matter great I do in lane and overall. there is always that one teammate who decides to feed their ass off or make bronze decisions.

I am just sitting here wondering how these people make the easiest mistakes and worst picks. thinking they are going to rekt.

Thats why I leave bot lane entirely , you better carry on other lanes to compensate bot.

I think it's just the adcs themselves that are the problem.

I don't think I've played in a time where adc were at the right place. They're either too weak or too strong.

I think they should find another substitution for crit.

ADC needs better passives, Riot cant touch items without overpowering other lanes except the ones they wanted to buff in the process

 

[TheFlow]

Thats why I leave bot lane entirely , you better carry on other lanes to compensate bot.



ADC needs better passives, Riot cant touch items without overpowering other lanes except the ones they wanted to buff in the process

bruh it is just so much bs.

 

[Black-Wind]

I think they should bite the bullet and rework bot lane champs to be more inline with solo laners. Also rework or take out crit.

But that's just me though. I think bot lane as a concept was a mistake, having ranged champs that can do high amounts of sustained dmg with just AAs in many cases but balancing it out by forcing them to need another person with them most of the lane/ time seems like it makes a system that easy to fuck up from many sides.

Oh well.
Anyway, got like 3600 IP. Wondering if I should save up for Yorick or just buy Galio and hope his rework makes him a AP Juggernaut. I mean, "Battle-Mage Warden" is what they curently think he is and that just screams "AP Juggernaut" to me and I'd like to expand my top/ mid pool with champs most don't think of.

 

[Calvero]

The lag is unbearable though. 100ms+

that's regular ping tho. no one has any less than that, right? just not possible

 

[JulianImp]

starting to feel helpless as a support. no matter great I do in lane and overall. there is always that one teammate who decides to feed their ass off or make bronze decisions.

I am just sitting here wondering how these people make the easiest mistakes and worst picks. thinking they are going to rekt.

There was a time when I was happy with going 1/2/6, even though my lack of deaths was mostly because I was extremely risk-adverse, meaning I didn't die but I didn't help people get fed, and sometimes even left them for dead when I could've saved them... Which is precisely why I'm happier playing toplane. Being on my own there has also made me far better at aggressive play while I'm supporting, which is win-win because it's through aggressive play that I can actually get favorable trades or set-ups for my adc.

Nami's my go-to support precisely because she's really versatile and can switch between aggressive and reactive play depending on the situation, and her actions are easier to read for my adc compared to, say, Lulu's or Karma's.

Thats why I leave bot lane entirely , you better carry on other lanes to compensate bot.

I remember a game where my adc Quinn kept doing stupid all-ins that would get her killed until she said she was fed up with her sup (me) and decided to go mid herself. The best part was that the midlaner (Akali, I think?) ended up coming botlane and we did way better, all while the adc did okay on her own in midlane and stopped complaining altogether... that sure was a weird game.

Leaving lane to help other lanes get fed is okay, but botlane's a bit of a pain since you're always a bit behind mid and top, and roaming at inopportune times can lead to your adc getting themselves killed, which might start a negative feedback loop of them hating you for it and refusing to play as a team while the opposing adc gets even more fed.

Anyway, got like 3600 IP. Wondering if I should save up for Yorick or just buy Galio and hope his rework makes him a AP Juggernaut.

Just buy Yorick, since you'll probably have enough IP to get Galio by the time it gets reworked. I've made several posts about my impressions from playing him, and I'd say he's my favorite toplaner for now. His minions pack quite a punch, he gets good sustain with his Q, W is decent and his ult can be quite strong as well.

 

[zkylon]

The problem is that lethality is a bandaid fix for ADCs, so if they nerf that ADC will just be a worthless role again.

long term it's for the best

junglers and tanks should be getting nerfed along the changes to lethality, and adcs are regularly getting buffs now, as well as their items (like bjork in next patch) so i think it's a matter of toughing it out

I think it's just the adcs themselves that are the problem.

I don't think I've played in a time where adc were at the right place. They're either too weak or too strong.

I think they should find another substitution for crit.

people keep talking about crit like that's a big problem with adc, and i think that's missing the forest for the trees

the issue with adcs has always been interchangeability and that's because adc is a class acting as a position, whereas every other position gets to have plenty of classes

in top there's rumble (mage), maokai (tank), darius (juggernaut), quinn (assassin), irelia (diver)
in mid you got leblanc (assassin), ori (control mage), cassiopeia (dps mage), corki (poke ad), taliyah (ganker)
in jungle you got lee sin (assassin), zac (tank), elise (mage), graves (weirdo)
in support you have zyra (off-mage), nami (healer), taric (defensive tank), alistar (offensive tank)

for adc you're always gonna have less variety because it's all one class, there might be duel oriented adcs like vayne or pick oriented adcs like ashe, but that's kind of it. ziggs is the rare exception but it's probably him just being op and i think he fell off a bunch once people started just playing lethality adcs

adcs being ubiquitous has a lot to do with someone needed to bear the burden of blowing up turrets and imo if u made turrets easier to destroy by other classes that would help getting some new carry types in the duo lane instead of just adcs

but idk, that's a big project for rito to have and i bet a lot of ppl would be understandably unhappy about it

it just feels like a problem that doesn't have a solution if u don't do that

 

[Newt]

ADC has two classes.

Utility: Ashe, Varus, Kalista, Jhin, Sivir

Damage: Everyone else

Also, I don't think people want other classes going botlane. I've played a bunch of Ziggs and he's totally cancerous.

The solution really isn't that difficult. Giving ADCs a one item powerspike really won't destroy the game, trust me. If they made an item that gave 100 AD and 30% attack speed or something that was (ranged only), it wouldn't break the game.

 

[zkylon]

idk i remember the old bt days and that thing felt completely game warping and i remember adcs being pretty pissed off at everything back then too

i also think the idea would be opening up the lane from a systems perspective, not just forcing a champion there like morde or abusing an op like ziggs

it'd be a big change but imo it'd be cooler

 

[Newt]

idk i remember the old bt days and that thing felt completely game warping and i remember adcs being pretty pissed off at everything back then too

i also think the idea would be opening up the lane from a systems perspective, not just forcing a champion there like morde or abusing an op like ziggs

it'd be a big change but imo it'd be cooler

The problem is ADCs have a unique attribute in that every ADC has overall low survivability.

If you put champions like Cass and Kayle ADC it would just destroy the role since those champions have decent/good survivability. I agree they could create a new champion that could work as an ADC, but nothing in the current roster could ever fit.

 

[Peanut Butter]

I don't think ADCs will ever have it easy. Even if they have items tweaked/created to help them have a better early/mid game, they'll always be getting 3rd worlded by the likes of Kha'Zix, Rengar, and other champions that are there just to target them.

 

[Newt]

I don't think ADCs will ever have it easy. Even if they have items tweaked/created to help them have a better early/mid game, they'll always be getting 3rd worlded by the likes of Kha'Zix, Rengar, and other champions that are there just to target them.

That's honestly fine. ADCs are supposed to die easily. Jungle I think is stupid right now because of experience works, but an ADC should always be vulnerable to an assassin.

I don't think Rengar or Khazix are very balanced right now, but someone like Eve or Yi can assassinate an ADC really easily, but it requires decent planning to not just become a 1 for 1 trade.

 

[JulianImp]

I wish we'd get more non-gunmen adcs like Koggy, since it feels kind of weird that 99% of them have to be guys (or gals) with guns, which is why I don't like the "marksman" moniker all that much (which got localized to "tirador" or "shooter" in LA). Kits like Kalista's, Jhin's, MF's and maybe even Ashe's feel varied enough, while on the other hand there're several of them that feel kind of same-y to me such as Trist, Kog, Vayne or Lucian.

I get that the game is balanced around them though, but also feel like every other role has a lot more variety in champion styles than them, while adc is always your boring autoattack-based champion that shoots, shoots and then shoots some more. I've heard bad things about experiments like the time Riot tried to make Mordekaiser work in botlane, but I can't deny I would be thrilled to see more variety there. Like, you can get ranged or melee champs in all positions but adc, which is kind of lame.

 

[zkylon]

The problem is ADCs have a unique attribute in that every ADC has overall low survivability.

If you put champions like Cass and Kayle ADC it would just destroy the role since those champions have decent/good survivability. I agree they could create a new champion that could work as an ADC, but nothing in the current roster could ever fit.

yeah i think it would be a cool opportunity to release like two champions at once and rework someone into the role and add items for it

basically break the game

but yeah, risky

for now i think the bjork changes and the lethality changes were meant to give adcs that one item power spike you're asking for. they went overboard with lethality and will probably step it back a bit, but they'll get it to a serviceable spot eventually

and then adcs will eventually break again

I don't think ADCs will ever have it easy. Even if they have items tweaked/created to help them have a better early/mid game, they'll always be getting 3rd worlded by the likes of Kha'Zix, Rengar, and other champions that are there just to target them.

that's not a problem for mages, shouldn't be a problem for adcs

 

[23qwerty]

mages can build zhonyas if they really want to though

 

[Peanut Butter]

that's not a problem for mages, shouldn't be a problem for adcs

It depends on the mage. You even said it yourself that mages have a variety of champions that fill specific roles. Champions like Vel'Koz and Xerath are easy to kill because they are immobile, but champions like Ahri, Azir, and LeBlanc have kits that can keep them in the game.

All ADCs are basically the same. Sure, a champion like Ezreal has a blink, but that's not going to stop him from getting killed if the assassin is fixated on getting rid of him. He would need to play perfectly in order to survive.

 

[drawkcaB]

Third Warwick jungle game, third S rank (well, S- this time). He's so good. This was the first time I did Tiamat->Cinderhulk as my opening build as opposed to Tiamat->Bloodrazor, mostly out of necessity being the only non-squishy champ on my team, but I've been meaning to see the difference anyways. Bloodrazor is the better item on him, straight up, the statistics are definitely right on this one. The synergy between Blood razor, tiamat, and his W's passive is tight as hell when clearing camps and completely covers the one deficiency he has which is mana consumption. Cinderhulk forces increased use of Q to keep the clear speed up which leaves him with middling mana amounts. Even late game I had issues with mana usage.

In other news, thanks to the practice tool I'm able to get Tahm's blue/red buff Devourer bug about 80% of the time. Well, more like 90% of the time on blue buff and maybe 60% of the time on red buff. I'm not really sure if it's worth it as much on red buff camps because of the placement of the bush. On blue buff camps you can approach the camp, slap the blue buff and get in position to W the monster in a nice seamless way and you definitely save some time with that fat 20+% max health nuke on the buff. On red side not so much. Still not in the mood to try out jungle Tahm again, but if the top tier junglers keep getting nerfed along with some other changes (e.g. the mastery nerfs) then I might start playing him again.

...but boy it sure would be nice if Riot let Tahm just eat the damn buffs already...

Jungle XP prob just needs to be nerfed again. Make the camps easier as compensation. Wraiths is prob too difficult atm.

If you make the camps easier, then junglers will clear faster, and they'll have even more time to gank. The end result is that while the jungle champion itself may be weaker, the increased gank frequency and pressure will shift his own lost power to the recipient laner(s). End result: you'll still feel like the jungler is deciding the game. And that's the bigger problem than the jungler being strong.

The opposite of what you're proposing may actually be the better idea. Increase camp health, but reduce damage to compensate. Keep rewards as is. The camps take longer to clear, but junglers are being damaged the same. This would narrow the ganking windows, force more gank vs. farm decisions, and would put less pressure on the laners, giving them some agency back without the potential risk of the "built tank and aura shit" jungle meta from season 3.

Wraiths isn't hard after level 3 on 90% of viable junglers, and several have no issues taking them before then.

 

[Newt]

Yeah, that is a better suggestion. I think ideally, the jungle should be around the same level as the ADC.

 

[zkylon]

i feel like i'm less annoyed at how strong junglers are and more annoyed at how little counterplay the strong junglers have atm

there's almost zero counterplay to khazix, rengar, shaco, evelynn, those kind of champions

vi and inven aren't much better

i do feel all of those champions need their dmg tuned the fuck down so that u have a second to react to when they click u for 800 instant dmg or whatever

mages can build zhonyas if they really want to though

zhonyas won't really save u from rengar unless your team is around

It depends on the mage. You even said it yourself that mages have a variety of champions that fill specific roles. Champions like Vel'Koz and Xerath are easy to kill because they are immobile, but champions like Ahri, Azir, and LeBlanc have kits that can keep them in the game.

All ADCs are basically the same. Sure, a champion like Ezreal has a blink, but that's not going to stop him from getting killed if the assassin is fixated on getting rid of him. He would need to play perfectly in order to survive.

most mages fit the first category, so it's still not a systemic issue like u say

adcs are the class that's most helpless alone but that's by design

removing that would just make them another midlane corki, who's way less interesting than duo lane adcs

 

[23qwerty]

zhonyas won't really save u from rengar unless your team is around

exactly, nothing can save you from rengar as an adc even if your team is around


maybe

 

[zkylon]

that's a problem with rengar, not adcs

 

[Newt]

I got 3 kills with an invade and came to lane with 1k gold from the ordeal. Poor Draven.

that's a problem with rengar, not adcs

Rengar's rework didn't really address his problems properly.

 

[23qwerty]

that's a problem with rengar, not adcs

wheres the ad zhonyas

 

[zkylon]

Rengar's rework didn't really address his problems properly.

i feel like the group reworks have all been mostly disappointing to me

like kat is a better champion now but this new champion has really big issues of her own and pretty much all the big other reworks didn't really accomplish all that much, sadly

the only one i genuinely liked was cassiopeia, the rest have either felt like a nightmare (malz/vlad), have done absolutely nothing (rengar/khazix/annie) or introduced problems of their own (kat/leblanc)

i hope they do better with divers

 

[Newt]

I actually really liked the Vlad rework.

The Graves rework makes me kinda mad, felt like they ruined the champion.

 

[zkylon]

idk i think old graves was really lame, so while this one has problems it's at least a lot more unique and interesting

kind of like kat, not perfect but an improvement over a champion that was too simple and outdated

 

[Newt]

They had some good ideas, but not executed well.

 

[Peanut Butter]

The funniest thing about the old Graves was how his shotgun shot a bullet that was the size of a pea. Wasn't a fan of the reload mechanic at first, but I think the new Graves is on point.

 

[Calvero]

guys i can download more ram right. i asked newt but he just logged off

 

[23qwerty]

guys i can download more ram right. i asked newt but he just logged off

yea here u go

 

[zkylon]

They had some good ideas, but not executed well.

i think they just haven't been able to properly balance his dmg and his tankiness

but his kit is cool imo

 

[Calvero]

let's go

 

[Peanut Butter]

let's go

Are those people on your squad the same crew we bodied a few weeks ago w/ Envelaap?

lul

 

[Calvero]

Are those people on your squad the same crew we bodied a few weeks ago w/ Envelaap?

lul

probably