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[mansoor1980]

skyrim is mentioned as a successfull 2022 IP along side spider-man

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Some key nuggets

- I had to google it, but GSBO means Sony's Global Sales Business Operations
- Increasing MAU is mentioned many times
- They want to secure T2 and EA games, but EA Play isn't viable
- Most sub plans are essentials tier. PS4 and PS5 splits are different, but their grand total bar charts are Essentials 71%, Extra 13%, Premium 17%. That adds up to 101% due to rounding
- Out of all the types of sub plan games, the games added to sub tiers gets played the most by far (about 70%). The free monthly games, PS Collection games etc.... arent played as much

PS Essential
- Monthly free PS+ games redeemed by about 30% of subbers, played by 13%

PS Extra
- Engagement increasing due to sub growth and game lineups
- First party games are about 30% of gamers' time share played

PS Premium
- Engagement increasing due to sub growth and game lineups

Game Trials
- Global engagement usage rate 9%, gamers play them avg of 1.5 hours per
- Out of top 12 games on Game Trial (mix of first and third party), I'll ballpark that about 10% of Game Trial users bought the game, where 20% of people who completed the trial bought the game
- Premium subbers spend more on indie games and on games within launch window

The last 10 slides have tons of shit on cannibalization effects and Method A vs Method B etc.... I didn't bother going through it all trying to understand it, but sometimes things go up or down pending which method is used.

 

[Gamerguy84]

JC I read every one of those and not one thing interesting. The insomniac leak had way more useful info. At least that had a road map and named games.

This is absolutely nothing. I guarantee you every company has these same goals.

Basically the goal is to get better, get more subs, and more money.

I hope these are fake because I didn't read anything about a PS5 PRO launching.

 

[Clear]

There's nothing wrong with talking about engagement internally as PART of the overall picture. Especially when you're doing it to see what games and features people are using to help improve your service.

The deserved mockery comes from when MS uses it as the ONLY metric publicly to act like things are going great for their games, when sales and concurrent player numbers paint a drasticly different picture.

Also, what do people think they are looking at with this presentation? Its a marketing plan, not a R+D schedule!

Detail aside, there's nothing new or unexpected in there from a quick skim. They want Plus on more screens with more engagement. Which is *the* KPI for a cloud service operator. Shocking news I know!

For a successful service, which is a major opportunity in a world where linear TV is going the way of the dinosaurs, its important to have content for as many demographics as possible and distribution as widespread geographically as feasible. Its boilerplate stuff.

Like it or not, this is the future and every big content provider will have an equivalent plan. The only way its going to change is if network TV suddenly makes the comeback of the century along with a sustained surge in sales for pressed physical media. Two things I have zero confidence in happening judging by the state of the world.

 

[Optimus Lime]

So what I'm getting from this is we're not going to have a new Bushido Blade any time soon.

 

[Masterri]

I don't care about the games, as long as Sony makes money and the investors are happy I will support them and defend them with all my strenght.
Hi, I'm a NeoGAF user.

P.S. Jim Ryan is an extremely handsome man.

 

[THE DUCK]

There's nothing wrong with talking about engagement internally as PART of the overall picture. Especially when you're doing it to see what games and features people are using to help improve your service.

The deserved mockery comes from when MS uses it as the ONLY metric publicly to act like things are going great for their games, when sales and concurrent player numbers paint a drasticly different picture.

That's cherry picking in your own right, ms clearly doesn't use this as the only metric.
Ms knows full well internally they have issues, but you would have them lead press releases with poor hardware sales and traditional game sales? Doesn't make sense.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

I'm surprised that so many people use Ps Plus Premium.

They probably just wanted to try it like I did, to see if Sony would put up some solid oldies, but turns out they're as bad as Nintendo when it comes to adding good retro titles to their sub.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

That's cherry picking in your own right, ms clearly doesn't use this as the only metric.
Ms knows full well internally they have issues, but you would have them lead press releases with poor hardware sales and traditional game sales? Doesn't make sense.

Exactly. Companies will PR the good news.

Sony is supposed to be some legacy transparent company that discloses all data.

Yet around the same time they announced sub plan fees are going up 33%, suddenly they stated they wont disclose PS sub plan member count anymore.

Since the slides are old, whatever is the last publicly stated PS sub member count is the last you'll see unless Sony goes back to disclosing it.

 

[aclar00]

And here i am with a PS+ Essential subscription expiring in January and have no plans to renew for the first time in like 13 years because of the garbage value.

 

[T-0800]

Damn that’s a lot of data leaked.

Even once it was added to PS+, players dropped Returnal within 8 hours.

Around 10% of people who play a game trial buy it.

Less than 20% of Essential players redeem at least one free game (if I understood the graph correctly).

I tried to understand their method for cannibalization calculation but couldn’t.

That’s all for now.

I played Returnal for 70 hours on PS Plus and then bought myself a physical copy when it went on sale.

 

[Punished Miku]

Goal of PS Content Strategy: Step 1, mAXimIZE eNgAGemEnt

 

[Punished Miku]

Some key nuggets

- I had to google it, but GSBO means Sony's Global Sales Business Operations
- Increasing MAU is mentioned many times
- They want to secure T2 and EA games, but EA Play isn't viable
- Most sub plans are essentials tier. PS4 and PS5 splits are different, but their grand total bar charts are Essentials 71%, Extra 13%, Premium 17%. That adds up to 101% due to rounding
- Out of all the types of sub plan games, the games added to sub tiers gets played the most by far (about 70%). The free monthly games, PS Collection games etc.... arent played as much

PS Essential
- Monthly free PS+ games redeemed by about 30% of subbers, played by 13%

PS Extra
- Engagement increasing due to sub growth and game lineups
- First party games are about 30% of gamers' time share played

PS Premium
- Engagement increasing due to sub growth and game lineups

Game Trials
- Global engagement usage rate 9%, gamers play them avg of 1.5 hours per
- Out of top 12 games on Game Trial (mix of first and third party), I'll ballpark that about 10% of Game Trial users bought the game, where 20% of people who completed the trial bought the game
- Premium subbers spend more on indie games and on games within launch window

The last 10 slides have tons of shit on cannibalization effects and Method A vs Method B etc.... I didn't bother going through it all trying to understand it, but sometimes things go up or down pending which method is used.

13% Extra is a lot lower than I realized. Figured they had more than GP honestly.

 

[struggler_guts]

Slide 17 says "mitigate the may 2023 risk"

What they talkin bout?

 

[AJUMP23]

MS can now have a plan of attack to these presentations. This is real data that is full company secret info. This is a rough leak.

their analysis on canibalization is interesting.

 

[DForce]

MS can now have a plan of attack to these presentations. This is real data that is full company secret info. This is a rough leak.

their analysis on canibalization is interesting.

There's not much they can attack with these slides because Microsoft is committed to putting their games from day one on Game Pass.

Early first-party releases cannibalize sales, but releasing games later shows an increase in subscribers and playtime. Game trials lead to sales, but this tier is only available to higher tiers.

If Microsoft wasn't committed to Game Pass, then this would help them out a lot.

 

[AJUMP23]

There's not much they can attack with these slides because Microsoft is committed to putting their games from day one on Game Pass.

Early first-party releases cannibalize sales, but releasing games later shows an increase in subscribers and playtime. Game trials lead to sales, but this tier is only available to higher tiers.

If Microsoft wasn't committed to Game Pass, then this would help them out a lot.

If Sony is labeling them secret it is because they believe that is data they don’t want out and data others can use.

 

[DForce]

If Sony is labeling them secret it is because they believe that is data they don’t want out and data others can use.

Everything leaked is confidential/secret. Even Insomniac's reports. That doesn't mean MS can do anything with those budget costs.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

MS ahead of the curve yet again, its all about engagement baby

As someone that LOVES engagement, I don’t necessarily think this is true. PlayStations Live Service initiative seems far more aggressive than Microsoft’s.

Last Junes Showcase was pretty single player focused for MS. PlayStation is about to drop a carpetbombings worth of Live Service games over the next few years.

 

[DryvBy]

I’m actually surprised there are so many streaming users.

7.7M Premium x +/- 20% use rate = 1.54M

I use the streaming for stupid stuff like Wheel of Fortune (yes, I play this a lot lol). I also have dabbled in it for testing while it plays good, no thanks still. It's great for small crap.

 

[Kupfer]

And here i am with a PS+ Essential subscription expiring in January and have no plans to renew for the first time in like 13 years because of the garbage value.

Same for me a few months later.
The whole concept started to crumble for me when we suddenly stopped getting PS3 and PSVITA games. Little by little, Sony started chasing something that didn't fit their identity. In the meantime, the new players don't even know Old-Sony anymore and the sad thing is that these subscriptions are the norm among the younger playerbase. I don't mourn PS+ when it ends, I haven't used it at all in the last few months. The price increase and simultaneous decrease in quality was the final nail in the coffin

 

[Platinumstorm]

JC I read every one of those and not one thing interesting. The insomniac leak had way more useful info. At least that had a road map and named games.

This is absolutely nothing. I guarantee you every company has these same goals.

Basically the goal is to get better, get more subs, and more money.

I hope these are fake because I didn't read anything about a PS5 PRO launching.

Super generic. I'm glad the play rate is as low as I thought it was. I've only played one PS+ title, which was Miles Morales. I never would have played it otherwise.

 

[MasterCornholio]

69

It's time to score.

 

[Taur007]

You guys can laugh and clown Xbox all you want, everyone know MS doesn't have those "AAA cinematic movie games" but behind closed doors Sony would literally kill to have a sea of thieves or a state of decay right now from the looks of it

 

[Taur007]

Why can't sony be normal and not chase every bad trend microsoft is doing.
Just be yourself. be content and confident with your brand. BE LIKE NINTENDO

"Be normal and not chase every trend MS is doing" = stay traditional and not look for other streams of revenue.

This isn't 2010 anymore buddy, the type of games you guys constantly beg them for costs 200 mill a pop now, just sales alone are barely cutting it anymore. Honest question, would you rather they continue to "chase MS" or charge you 100$+ for their 1st party games?

Also I doubt Nintendos games cost anywhere nearly as much as Sony's to develop.

 

[Dacvak]

I can’t wait until a year from now when AI will read all these slides for me and tell me how I should feel.

 

[MasterCornholio]

"Be normal and not chase every trend MS is doing" = stay traditional and not look for other streams of revenue.

This isn't 2010 anymore buddy, the type of games you guys constantly beg them for costs 200 mill a pop now, just sales alone are barely cutting it anymore. Honest question, would you rather they continue to "chase MS" or charge you 100$+ for their 1st party games?

Also I doubt Nintendos games cost anywhere nearly as much as Sony's to develop.

Actually a day one release on a subscription service would affect their sales. They have to be smart about putting their software on PlayStation Plus since the revenue for that works differently than a physical/digital copy.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

 

[DenchDeckard]

There's nothing wrong with talking about engagement internally as PART of the overall picture. Especially when you're doing it to see what games and features people are using to help improve your service.

The deserved mockery comes from when MS uses it as the ONLY metric publicly to act like things are going great for their games, when sales and concurrent player numbers paint a drasticly different picture.

Services 3.0 is basically an expanded MS vision for gaming and IT WILL ALSO FAIL for the same reasons. Why are they trying to copy the current worst gaming model from Microsoft is unfathomable.

There is a reason companies like From Software, Rocktar or Nintendo are thriving because they have being doing something successfully for decades without trying to be the coolest kid on the block or trying to shove a political agenda down to their customer's throat.

yep. Agreed.
It sucks ass that sony is not confident in their own stuff and have their own normal model.
PS was built on solid games and normal consoles. Like nintendo is still doing.
Following microsoft is not a good idea

I think the reality here is Sony knows what shareholders and the business wants to talk about. They clearly know what is working for Microsoft and their business and so they are discussing similar points in their meetings.

Obviously, this stuff is what is ultimately bringing the money in / is important to business people somewhere or they wouldn't be talking about it.

The difference is Microsoft are transparent and talk about it with their userbase and the public in general, which a lot of people take issue with.

I'd rather business is using the terminology what they are using internally so I can at least feel they are being somewhat candid with me.

Just gotta accept that this is what every business is doing, either behind closed doors or face to face with the public.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I think the reality here is Sony knows what shareholders and the business wants to talk about. They clearly know what is working for Microsoft and their business and so they are discussing similar points in their meetings.

Obviously, this stuff is what is ultimately bringing the money in / is important to business people somewhere or they wouldn't be talking about it.

The difference is Microsoft are transparent and talk about it with their userbase and the public in general, which a lot of people take issue with.

I'd rather business is using the terminology what they are using internally so I can at least feel they are being somewhat candid with me.

Just gotta accept that this is what every business is doing, either behind closed doors or face to face with the public.

Exactly.

Sony and MS are going to have similar sales and engagement kinds of targets, game plans, strategies, whatever you wanna call them internally.

The difference is Sony is good at playing the gamer base PR game (ie. Shu and the fat dude with glasses doing the "Here's how you trade games... Thanks!"). They never talk about these kinds of suit and tie guy metrics with gamers. But as everyone has seen in the leaks, there's tons of this shit done at head office. Same looking kind of shit. They are talking engagement and MAUs in Powerpoint slides just like MS would.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Exactly.

Sony and MS are going to have similar sales and engagement kinds of targets, game plans, strategies, whatever you wanna call them internally.

The difference is Sony is good at playing the gamer base PR game (ie. Shu and the fat dude with glasses doing the "Here's how you trade games... Thanks!"). They never talk about these kinds of suit and tie guy metrics with gamers. But as everyone has seen in the leaks, there's tons of this shit done at head office. Same looking kind of shit. They are talking engagement and MAUs in Powerpoint slides just like MS would.

And sharing sales with us.

 

[Heisenberg007]

My takeaways from this are:

• PS Plus seems to be very successful for the metrics Sony set out. I still think these are all vanity metrics (play hours, engagement, etc.) and do not help a business's bottom line.
• Game Trials have been a positive.
• Nobody but a vocal minority cares about Classics games.
• Sub inclusions do cannibalize game sales. Perhaps Sony has learned from it and is now focusing on just adding third-party content, instead of first-party content before their sales dry up (e.g., Horizon Forbidden West - it was tracking ahead of HZD but fell of a cliff after joining PS+).

 

[MasterCornholio]

My takeaways from this are:

• PS Plus seems to be very successful for the metrics Sony set out. I still think these are all vanity metrics (play hours, engagement, etc.) and do not help a business's bottom line.
• Game Trials have been a positive.
• Nobody but a vocal minority cares about Classics games.
• Sub inclusions do cannibalize game sales. Perhaps Sony has learned from it and is now focusing on just adding third-party content, instead of first-party content before their sales dry up (e.g., Horizon Forbidden West - it was tracking ahead of HZD but fell of a cliff after joining PS+).

Well the truth is Sony uses other metrics besides those vanity metrics. They still see console sales and software sales as being extremely important to their business. I can guarantee you they would exchange them for those other metrics.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

My takeaways from this are:

• PS Plus seems to be very successful for the metrics Sony set out. I still think these are all vanity metrics (play hours, engagement, etc.) and do not help a business's bottom line.
• Game Trials have been a positive.
• Nobody but a vocal minority cares about Classics games.
• Sub inclusions do cannibalize game sales. Perhaps Sony has learned from it and is now focusing on just adding third-party content, instead of first-party content before their sales dry up (e.g., Horizon Forbidden West - it was tracking ahead of HZD but fell of a cliff after joining PS+).

One thing too which is peculiar is February engagement goes down after January.

The only guess I can think of is gamers playing more stuff in January after getting Xmas gifts in late December, but then it peters out in February. Very likely a similar trend every other company has.

 

[Interfectum]

69

 

[ChoosableOne]

Ps plus Essential going strong and they probably don't like it. What will they do? Improve extra/premium offerings? No, probably they will fck essential users. Get ready boys.

 

[thismeinteil]

Slide 17 says "mitigate the may 2023 risk"

What they talkin bout?

If I had to guess, it's referring to Redfall and TOTK releasing in May, while Sony didn't have any big first party games launching. Remember, Redfall was supposed to be the big comeback for Xbox in terms of first party content. It was supposed to be a big hit, and would then be followed up by the GOTG, Starfield. Fortunately for Sony, MS already took care of that May '23 risk for them.

 

[rofif]

"Be normal and not chase every trend MS is doing" = stay traditional and not look for other streams of revenue.

This isn't 2010 anymore buddy, the type of games you guys constantly beg them for costs 200 mill a pop now, just sales alone are barely cutting it anymore. Honest question, would you rather they continue to "chase MS" or charge you 100$+ for their 1st party games?

Also I doubt Nintendos games cost anywhere nearly as much as Sony's to develop.

I would prefer 100$.
Console company is doing games and console. If they are unhappy with that and only business remains, there are other streams of revenue. Why don’t they start seeing cases or whatever else that brings more money than gaming.
Looking like this, no company would settle in

 

[rofif]

I think the reality here is Sony knows what shareholders and the business wants to talk about. They clearly know what is working for Microsoft and their business and so they are discussing similar points in their meetings.

Obviously, this stuff is what is ultimately bringing the money in / is important to business people somewhere or they wouldn't be talking about it.

The difference is Microsoft are transparent and talk about it with their userbase and the public in general, which a lot of people take issue with.

I'd rather business is using the terminology what they are using internally so I can at least feel they are being somewhat candid with me.

Just gotta accept that this is what every business is doing, either behind closed doors or face to face with the public.

But nothing is working for Xbox. They are using Microsoft money. Not Xbox money.
Sony got to their place by doing what they do well. Not what other company does well.

Shareholders only care about money. I am a gamer and I care about games. No consumers want those changes.

 

[X-Wing]

This is all very generic information. Nothin really noteworthy.

 

[K2D]

I see a whole lot of cluelessnes and salivating for free money in these slides.

LOL at "avoid bad deals" - Bungie call out..?

Fascinating stuff.

They have a model for predicting the impact of PS Plus subs on sales of individual titles. It’d be great to see more about this one. Certainly, it’ll help drive down the risk of launching / promoting particular titles at particular times.

All of this really does show just how laughably uninformed all of us are when it comes to the corporate strategies behind various decisions. There’s a reason there was no Days Gone 2. There’s a reason we don’t have a PC port of Bloodbourne. Sony follow the numbers, not the naive demands of uninformed consumers.

Blindly chasing the numbers is pretty naive in and of itself. I see little of the spirit that got us into the PS2 era left in Sony. Now it's all "content" to appease the consumer.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

"Be normal and not chase every trend MS is doing" = stay traditional and not look for other streams of revenue.

This isn't 2010 anymore buddy, the type of games you guys constantly beg them for costs 200 mill a pop now, just sales alone are barely cutting it anymore. Honest question, would you rather they continue to "chase MS" or charge you 100$+ for their 1st party games?

Also I doubt Nintendos games cost anywhere nearly as much as Sony's to develop.

They have all the tech in the world to make games faster than at any time in history. It’s their rigged accounting that makes them appear to cost 200mill.

MS is forcing this money burning service move on Sony in the hopes to bleed them dry. The way Chinese EVs do atm or Uber fucked Taxi companies over. Crash the market and once you own it raise prices sky high.

Sony can’t win a service war against MS, they don’t earn enough money.

This hobby has grown to big for its own good.

 

[Goalus]

- They want to secure T2 games,

They can proceed to do that, but they shouldn't complain then if MS eventually decides to secure the entire T2 company.

It's good though that they inform their competitors about their plans this early, so that appropriate measures can be taken just as early.

 

[cireza]

Reads like Sony wanting to follow the exact same steps as MS.

 

[DForce]

They can proceed to do that, but they shouldn't complain then if MS eventually decides to secure the entire T2 company.

It's good though that they inform their competitors about their plans this early, so that appropriate measures can be taken just as early.

You're comparing putting a game on PS+ to an acquisition. lol

 

[Chukhopops]

Reads like Sony wanting to follow the exact same steps as MS.

It reads like they want to go deeper in this model but are scared shitless to do so because of sales cannibalization.

They have under 14M combined Extra + Premium subs and already report around 10% cannibalized revenue - so I can imagine why they’re a bit worried about going higher than that.

 

[Investor9872]

I would love to see Jeanne d"Arc as one of those hundreds of PSP games!

 

[ergem]

If this can expand the market to non-traditional console gamers, then I’m all for it.

The crucial part how they will entice a new world of audience.

 

[Physiognomonics]

I think the reality here is Sony knows what shareholders and the business wants to talk about. They clearly know what is working for Microsoft and their business and so they are discussing similar points in their meetings.

That's the thing. What's actually working for Microsoft? Currently what's working for them is a Ponzi scheme with their acquisitions. Counting the revenue without accounting for the billions they lost with the publishers they bought.

 

[Goalus]

That's the thing. What's actually working for Microsoft? Currently what's working for them is a Ponzi scheme with their acquisitions. Counting the revenue without accounting for the billions they lost with the publishers they bought.

They don't lose anything when they buy another company, unless the value of the bought company diminishes or vanishes shortly after.
Buying another company means exchanging cash for an asset. Nothing is lost here.