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[Hypron]

This website looks super sleek. $7/month looks a bit expensive though, but I'll give the free version a try. Being able to tell it which kanji you know and only display furigana on those you don't seems very useful, and so does the inbuilt SRS.

Another website that's a little bit similar (way less sleek but hey it's free) is watanoc. They grade their articles according to JLPT levels. You can click on most words to get definitions and some articles have full voice recordings. The English translations can be a bit dodgy grammatically but they convey the meaning and we're not learning English anyway. They also don't seem to update it very often but there's a large backlog of articles to go through so it's not really an issue.

 

[RangerBAD]

You're right, the problem was probably that I have the same address and password for both accounts. Thanks.

Still, it's kind of a pain to switch between accounts. I'll just keep my old Kindle and manually import my non-Japanese libraries every now and then. So far it seems to be working just fine.

I really don't understand why I can't just buy things from my regular Amazon account in other regions. Especially something like a digital book.

 

[Nachos]

So I haven't gotten to learning する verbs in that much depth yet, but I looked up the basic construction since Genki is throwing a few of them out early. If I have a verb like 紹介する, is the literal translation basically "(To do) (the act of introducing)"?

 

[KtSlime]

So I haven't gotten to learning する verbs in that much depth yet, but I looked up the basic construction since Genki is throwing a few of them out early. If I have a verb like 紹介する, is the literal translation basically "(To do) (the act of introducing)"?

No need to over complicate it, but yeah. Something like that. する more or less can be used as to do. Just use it when you want to use a 'noun' as a 'verb'. An introduction -> to introduce, an explaination -> to explain, a meeting -> to meet.

 

[lupin23rd]

Want to try and pass the JLPT N3 test this year (my last attempts at the test a few years back were 2級 before the switch to the system, and failed them both).

While thinking about which books to pick up to study for this, I wondered what to do with the existing books that I used to study for 2級. Is there any value in them for preparing for N3 or even N2 later on down the road, or are they basically useless at this point? To be honest I could use the shelf space for other books / movies... lol

 

[Sage00]

Want to try and pass the JLPT N3 test this year (my last attempts at the test a few years back were 2級 before the switch to the system, and failed them both).

While thinking about which books to pick up to study for this, I wondered what to do with the existing books that I used to study for 2級. Is there any value in them for preparing for N3 or even N2 later on down the road, or are they basically useless at this point? To be honest I could use the shelf space for other books / movies... lol

Why not up your target and go for N2 again? To be honest the N3 specific grammar is all quite weird and unnatural in comparison to N2 since it's just a made-up halfway between what was the old 3 (now N4)'s basic grammar and 2's everyday grammar. Actually more N4 grammar appears on the N2 and N1 tests than N3. Most Japanese teachers really dislike teaching that 'level.' The vocabulary is all you need.

 

[lupin23rd]

Why not up your target and go for N2 again? To be honest the N3 specific grammar is all quite weird and unnatural in comparison to N2 since it's just a made-up halfway between what was the old 3 (now N4)'s basic grammar and 2's everyday grammar. Most Japanese teachers really dislike teaching that 'level.' The vocabulary is good though so don't skip that.

When I took the old 2級 I failed by about 2 or 3%. I haven't really done any studying since then, although I feel like I have at least spoken a lot more Japanese since then. So I wasn't sure if trying N2 would be taking on too much? But you raise an interesting point so I will hold off pulling the trigger on these N3 books and think about N2 instead.

 

[Nachos]

No need to over complicate it, but yeah. Something like that. する more or less can be used as to do. Just use it when you want to use a 'noun' as a 'verb'. An introduction -> to introduce, an explaination -> to explain, a meeting -> to meet.

I don't think I'm over-complicating things, since the construction seemed pretty simple. It just kinda got that way since I was trying to describe it in English. Guess I could've just asked if it's what you use if you want to verb something, though.

 

[Kilrogg]

In the past few days I've:
- bought a new Kindle and started reading Haruki Murakami's 「スプートニクの恋人」
- started (re-)listening to the ひいきびいき podcast, since there's really no Japanese podcast worth a damn other than this one really
- ordered a whiteboard and decided with a friend of mine to start doing the whiteboard method together (I mean, not actually together, but we're doing it simultaneously for extra motivation)

Les do dis, ブロ

 

[TheSporkWithin]

- bought a new Kindle and started reading Haruki Murakami's 「スプートニクの恋人」

I unreservedly recommend コンビニ人間 by 村田沙耶香. It's not just one of the best novels I've read in Japanese, it's one of the best I've read period. I mention it because it's available on Kindle. It's a bit pricey for the page count, but goddamn it's so good, just get it.

(Not so) brief synopsis/premise:

Spoiler

The story is told in first-person from the perspective of the main character, Keiko. She works part-time at a convenience store. She is 36 years old. She has been working at the same store since she was 18. For fully half her life she has been working at the same convenience store, as a part-timer. Managers come and go, Keiko remains. She lives and breathes the convenience store.

Keiko is a bit different. She has a lot of trouble understanding just why other people do things. She hates the guesswork of trying to figure out what she's supposed to do in any given situation. This got her into trouble when she was younger, like the time that she stopped two boys from fighting at school (all of her classmates were yelling for someone to stop them...) by fetching a spade from the shed and bashing one of the boys on the head with it. At the convenience store, it's simple. Just follow the employee guidelines, and everything works out okay. She knows just what to to and when to do it, and happily passes each day working as hard as she can.

Keiko doesn't understand why everyone is so sad for her. Why her coworkers look at her with pity. Why her sister is always asking her if she's okay, if she's happy. People are surprised when they hear that she's never had a boyfriend, so she tries not to mention that. She learns her coworkers speech patterns and models her own after them, learning how to act more "normal."

But one day, a new worker joins the staff. He's also different, but he's nothing like Keiko either. Slowly, things change, and the life that she though she had built for herself starts to crumble, bit by bit...

My own personal take (not really spoiler, but if you want to go in blind):

Spoiler

Keiko reads very strongly as autism-spectrum / Aspergers' case to me. My youngest brother is low-functioning autistic, and I've known many people all across the spectrum as a result. The novel reminded me of Flowers for Algernon in some ways, with the narrative filtered through the extremely honest but socially blind Keiko, while the reader is able to infer all of the things that Keiko cannot. There were numerous passages where my stomach was churning in anger about something a character did or said, while Keiko herself was completely unfazed. It's utterly brilliant narration and characterization.

I translated the first dozen or so pages into English, in which we meet Keiko and the store, and hear a few episodes from her childhood. If anyone wants to read those as a sample, shoot me a PM.

 

[Aubergine]

In the past few days I've:
- bought a new Kindle and started reading Haruki Murakami's 「スプートニクの恋人」
- started (re-)listening to the ひいきびいき podcast, since there's really no Japanese podcast worth a damn other than this one really
- ordered a whiteboard and decided with a friend of mine to start doing the whiteboard method together (I mean, not actually together, but we're doing it simultaneously for extra motivation)

Les do dis, ブロ

I just came across this thread and the whiteboard method this past week and have also risen to the challenge. I'd be curious to see how both of us progress. It'll be nice to know there's others out there trying their best!

I've had this question in my brain for a while, do you need to get a Japanese Kindle to get works in Japanese? I've been thinking about investing in a reader/tablet and want to get one that will let me read in Japanese primarily, though being able to read books from both Eng and JP would be nice too.

 

[TheSporkWithin]

I've had this question in my brain for a while, do you need to get a Japanese Kindle to get works in Japanese? I've been thinking about investing in a reader/tablet and want to get one that will let me read in Japanese primarily, though being able to read books from both Eng and JP would be nice too.

You do not. You can access any region's Amazon accounts from any region's Kindle devices. You can load books from multiple accounts (don't know if there's a limit, I have US and JP books loaded) but only the currently logged-in account will get "whispersync" and other such features. You need log out of one account and into the other to load other books (so I just keep mine on the Japanese account and then switch over and back again on the rare occasion that I buy a US book). Japanese accounts require a Japanese address, but you can probably figure something out to that end.

 

[Kansoku]

Hey everyone, I finally graduated, so now I have time to go back to studying Japanese!

Due to having to constantly stop studying Japanese to focus on college stuff, I ended up with a lot of hole in my knowledge of the language. Grammar is the one who took the hardest hit, because at least with vocab I could do some Anki here and there.
So I want to focus on that right now, and recover what I had studied before, so I'll try to start from the beginning again.
What do you guys suggest for that? I had gone trough Tae Kim before, and I still have my "notes" on it. I do have the Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar, and I find it useful, but it's not really for studying from "scratch". I really, really, REALLY don't like textbooks, but if there's one that doesn't feel like one, I might take a look at it. I did look at Genki and it's exactly what I don't want.

Thanks.

 

[Sallokin]

You do not. You can access any region's Amazon accounts from any region's Kindle devices. You can load books from multiple accounts (don't know if there's a limit, I have US and JP books loaded) but only the currently logged-in account will get "whispersync" and other such features. You need log out of one account and into the other to load other books (so I just keep mine on the Japanese account and then switch over and back again on the rare occasion that I buy a US book). Japanese accounts require a Japanese address, but you can probably figure something out to that end.

I'm not sure if this is universal, but if you regularly access your Japanese account from a non-Japanese IP address you will eventually be unable to purchase items for your Kindle from Amazon Japan. I've had this happen recently when I was in the US for a spell. Customer support can help, but it's a hurdle that kind of sucks over the long term. I have not encountered the reverse however (US account being blocked from Japan) so maybe it's a JP thing?

 

[TheSporkWithin]

What do you guys suggest for that? I had gone trough Tae Kim before, and I still have my "notes" on it. I do have the Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar, and I find it useful, but it's not really for studying from "scratch". I really, really, REALLY don't like textbooks, but if there's one that doesn't feel like one, I might take a look at it. I did look at Genki and it's exactly what I don't want.

Thanks.

日本語チャレンジN4文法と読む練習 works as a good review book for Genki 1 and 2. Once you finish that, grab Tobira, which is built to teach you how to read non-textbook materials. I wrote some more about it in the old thread, so I'll just link that post.

 

[Lagamorph]

Decided to finally get around to making a start on learning a bit of Japanese. It's something I've wanted to learn for probably going 15-16 years now, if not longer, but I just never really seriously invested time into it.
But now I've signed myself up for a 9 week beginners evening class at Durham University, 2 hours per week of classroom learning, so it's finally going to become a reality. Just hope that, at almost 32, I haven't left it too late.

I'll have a proper read through the OP too for some decent self-study material for outside of the class as well as additional practice on what's learned during the class, it looks like "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar" is probably a good starting point if nothing else so I think I'll get a copy ordered.

 

[Jintor]

Tobira is really good for prepping you for non textbook materials. Like, really, really good.

I also recommend sneaking in some NHK Easy although that will largely teach you how to read NHK Easy. still worthwhile.

 

[Aubergine]

Working on day 4 of the whiteboard method tonight, I've left my studying go to the wayside for too long. I'm in one of those situations where I teach in Japan and had what I thought was a decent grasp of the language before coming over, but in reality not even 4 years of study in college could really approach the same degree of fluency as the real deal of living and working in the country itself requires. I've gotten myself in what I hope to be a consistent schedule now though, so now its all a matter of gumption.

You do not. You can access any region's Amazon accounts from any region's Kindle devices. You can load books from multiple accounts (don't know if there's a limit, I have US and JP books loaded) but only the currently logged-in account will get "whispersync" and other such features. You need log out of one account and into the other to load other books (so I just keep mine on the Japanese account and then switch over and back again on the rare occasion that I buy a US book). Japanese accounts require a Japanese address, but you can probably figure something out to that end.

Nice, that's good information to know. I'm currently residing in Japan so the address and IP stuff won't be much of a problem, but its good to know that should I want to read a book from back home it shouldn't be too difficult to make that happen on the same device.

Decided to finally get around to making a start on learning a bit of Japanese. It's something I've wanted to learn for probably going 15-16 years now, if not longer, but I just never really seriously invested time into it.
But now I've signed myself up for a 9 week beginners evening class at Durham University, 2 hours per week of classroom learning, so it's finally going to become a reality. Just hope that, at almost 32, I haven't left it too late.

I'll have a proper read through the OP too for some decent self-study material for outside of the class as well as additional practice on what's learned during the class, it looks like "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar" is probably a good starting point if nothing else so I think I'll get a copy ordered.

I definitely don't think its too late. It's all about your approach to studying, your mindset going forward for this long journey of language learning will determine the results that you will see. Treat your language learning seriously, and push beyond what's taught in class. I found for my learning, having a long term goal that's just general enough to always be out of reach is a big help. For me, it was the desire to one day reach the ability to play games in Japanese with the same level of comprehension as I do in English.

I'd second picking up the Dictionaries of Japanese Grammar. Basic and Intermediate are great for the beginning, but you'll probably want to get all 3 eventually. The rest of your materials can come straight from online in my experience.

 

[leecming]

I'm probably being dumb but what's the whiteboard method that people are mentioning?

 

[Beckx]

Decided to finally get around to making a start on learning a bit of Japanese. It's something I've wanted to learn for probably going 15-16 years now, if not longer, but I just never really seriously invested time into it.
But now I've signed myself up for a 9 week beginners evening class at Durham University, 2 hours per week of classroom learning, so it's finally going to become a reality. Just hope that, at almost 32, I haven't left it too late.

I'll have a proper read through the OP too for some decent self-study material for outside of the class as well as additional practice on what's learned during the class, it looks like "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar" is probably a good starting point if nothing else so I think I'll get a copy ordered.

it's never too late. I'm, uh, way older. It's not about anything other than dedication. If you're willing to put in the time, every day, working toward your goal, that's the trick.

having a class to actually practice speaking and listening (and a teacher to ask questions of!) seems like a huge boon to your studies. but realistically 9 weeks is not going to cover much so the big questions will be where do you go from there?

whatever you do, there is one thing you need to do immediately, if you haven't already. take a weekend or even a week, whatever, and memorize hirigana and katakana. it's not hard, and there are tons of free online guides (and if you need a book then Heisig's Remembering the Kana makes it all super easy). try to make it so that everything you do in written work from here on out is in actual Japanese, not romaji. romaji lies and it's worthless for long term study, proper pronunciation, etc. Speaking of pronunciation, tae kim's site has all the kana linked with proper pronunciation so you can do that too.

unlike other languages where you just have to learn grammar and vocab, with Japanese you have to learn grammar, vocab, and a complicated writing system. do all of these simultaneously. don't say to yourself "i can wait to learn the kanji" because that's pointless too.

i'm in my 40s and finally got serious almost (but not quite) 2 years ago. i have kids and a job that gets complicated with travel and long hours, so i can't cram in as much study as others, but i do study every day, work/vacation/sick/whatever. i've moved through genki I and II slowly (i'd speed that up, looking back). i do a lot of separate study of vocab and grammar, and have a separate study program for kanji. i'm still far, far away from my goals but at the turn of the year realized that it's finally turned into a snowball rolling down a mountain. i can read a lot more stuff (hey! I can read most of NHK News Easy! 小学生 status achieved!) and feels like it's going to accelerate from here. i'm excited. this year i'll move on to Tobira and if all goes well, will find a regular tutor for speaking practice. that in turn will hopefully help my listening skills. unsurprisingly, those are my two weakest areas.

anyway, enjoy and have fun with it! find your own pace and whatever method will help you keep doing it every day. whether that's the whiteboard boot camp or just the daily snail pace. whatever works for you and meets your goals.

 

[Lagamorph]

I definitely don't think its too late. It's all about your approach to studying, your mindset going forward for this long journey of language learning will determine the results that you will see. Treat your language learning seriously, and push beyond what's taught in class. I found for my learning, having a long term goal that's just general enough to always be out of reach is a big help. For me, it was the desire to one day reach the ability to play games in Japanese with the same level of comprehension as I do in English.

I'd second picking up the Dictionaries of Japanese Grammar. Basic and Intermediate are great for the beginning, but you'll probably want to get all 3 eventually. The rest of your materials can come straight from online in my experience.

it's never too late. I'm, uh, way older. It's not about anything other than dedication. If you're willing to put in the time, every day, working toward your goal, that's the trick.

having a class to actually practice speaking and listening (and a teacher to ask questions of!) seems like a huge boon to your studies. but realistically 9 weeks is not going to cover much so the big questions will be where do you go from there?

whatever you do, there is one thing you need to do immediately, if you haven't already. take a weekend or even a week, whatever, and memorize hirigana and katakana. it's not hard, and there are tons of free online guides (and if you need a book then Heisig's Remembering the Kana makes it all super easy). try to make it so that everything you do in written work from here on out is in actual Japanese, not romaji. romaji lies and it's worthless for long term study, proper pronunciation, etc. Speaking of pronunciation, tae kim's site has all the kana linked with proper pronunciation so you can do that too.

unlike other languages where you just have to learn grammar and vocab, with Japanese you have to learn grammar, vocab, and a complicated writing system. do all of these simultaneously. don't say to yourself "i can wait to learn the kanji" because that's pointless too.

i'm in my 40s and finally got serious almost (but not quite) 2 years ago. i have kids and a job that gets complicated with travel and long hours, so i can't cram in as much study as others, but i do study every day, work/vacation/sick/whatever. i've moved through genki I and II slowly (i'd speed that up, looking back). i do a lot of separate study of vocab and grammar, and have a separate study program for kanji. i'm still far, far away from my goals but at the turn of the year realized that it's finally turned into a snowball rolling down a mountain. i can read a lot more stuff (hey! I can read most of NHK News Easy! 小学生 status achieved!) and feels like it's going to accelerate from here. i'm excited. this year i'll move on to Tobira and if all goes well, will find a regular tutor for speaking practice. that in turn will hopefully help my listening skills. unsurprisingly, those are my two weakest areas.

anyway, enjoy and have fun with it!

Thanks, that does make me a bit more optimistic going forward
I've ordered a copy of "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar" from Amazon so that should arrive tomorrow, with my classes beginning on 18th January. I realise 9 weeks isn't much, but it is just a beginner course that's essentially an introduction. The syllabus is advertised as covering,


Hiragana あーん
Introduction to Katakana

Introduction to Japanese alphabets
Useful expressions
Greetings
Introducing yourself/someone with details: name, origin, occupation, date of birth
Writing your name in Japanese
Exchanging business cards & telephone number
Numbers 0 to 90000
Asking about business hours
Dates, time
Prices,
Indicating words : this/that Counters for 4 types of items
How many? How much?
Colours,
Family
Transport
Simple position words
Going, coming and returning
From – to


So I'm hoping it'll provide a nice cover for the basics just to get me going. The course is advertised as being for total beginners, so I figured that it would be one of the best places to start out. I've always tended to be quite comfortable in a classroom environment when I was doing my Bachelors/Masters degrees. The University also does more advanced courses as well, so once I've done some further self study there are more classes I can sign up to which are priced very reasonably, an 18 week Intermediate course is £225 and that would give me a good opportunity to practice with a fluent speaker.
To be honest, from the Syllabus I think the "Writing your name in Japanese" is one of the things I'm most oddly excited about.


What exactly is the Whiteboard method a few people have mentioned? I've got a nice big open wall space in my living room so there's definitely space for a Whiteboard in my main living area.

Also, you mention studying up on Hiragana and Katakana, what about Kanji? Is that something I should also be looking at? Or is that something a bit beyond my level just yet? (Or am I totally misunderstanding the core concepts of what they all are here?)
I might order this book, https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Re...ting-Japanese-Syllabaries-Hiragna/0824831640/ , the Remembering the Kana book, pretty decent price on Amazon and it'll arrive tomorrow with Prime, so I've got a week and a half to go through it and make a start before classes commence.

 

[Beckx]

basically that syllabus is covering the first couple or so chapters of Genki I (or other introductory text books) and it seems typical.

you'll learn to write your name in Japanese just learning katakana, likely.

my opinion on kanji is that yes, you should start as soon as you get your feet wet learning Japanese. there are a lot of different opinions and approaches but there is no reason to wait. (my only advice: don't split learning readings from learning the kanji itself. the most commonly recommended approach (heisig) will have you do that, so don't do it. (at a minimum, there are descendents of the Heisig way (wanikani or the Kanji Learners Course, etc.) that take his approach (radicals/keywords) but have you learning readings at the same time.)

i used Remembering the Kana and i liked it. i hesitate to recommend books because everyone's approach is different and there's no real reason to spend any money on learning kana.

I'm probably being dumb but what's the whiteboard method that people are mentioning?

it's i'm an expert's recommended approach: essentially if you have a few weeks where you can lock yourself down for several hours a day, studying grammar, vocab, kanji, on an erasable whiteboard, you can make fast progress in the language. search for posts on GAF by i'm an expert with the word "whiteboard" and you'll probably find the basic outline, or someone will link it.

 

[Aubergine]

The Whiteboard Method is one developed around the way -I'm an Expert- learned Japanese, and by learned I mean deep down drilled. Expert's method is not for everyone, nor is it really for someone who hasn't gotten the basics down yet, but man if that post isn't worth reading just for the intense level of energy that it imparts trying to encourage you to just get serious about learning.

Here's a link to the post back from the previous thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=186923177&postcount=8330

Really this is a method that I personally would recommend for people who have completed at least the basic learning course of Genki I & II, which from the sounds of your post Lagamorph, your class sounds quite close to what one would expect to learn from Genki I. Do you know if you'll be using a textbook in that class? If so, I'd bet its Genki. Regardless though, I'd focus on learning the basics at your own pace and creating a solid foundation before taking on something as intensive as the Whiteboard Method. Kanji will come in time, but first nail down hiragana and katakana. I'd hope that the class you are taking would eventually dip you into the shallow end of Kanji, and then you can take it from there with self study. The big problem with Kanji is that since everyone learns differently, there's really not a best method for study with them I feel. I know I've tried lots of different methods to varying success, but Remembering the Kanji definitely helped boost my natural ability to identify Kanji through learning radicals, though aside from that I didn't feel the book was preparing me as much as I wanted with the lack of learning actually associated with the Kanji. RTK is kind of hard to explain without looking at it. Aside from RTK, the other methods are spaced-repitition software (SRS) like Anki or just brute force memorization.

It's awesome to see that you're excited about learning Japanese, Lagamorph. I think learning another language is one of the most enriching things a person can do in their life, so cheers and good luck! At the beginning stages, like Beckx said enjoy and have fun with it. Once the foundation is done through this class and some self study then I'd recommend buckling down. I know I should have long ago if I really wanted to see my ability to go anywhere past a rudimentary "Intermediate" level.

 

[kubus]

I might order this book, https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Re...ting-Japanese-Syllabaries-Hiragna/0824831640/ , the Remembering the Kana book, pretty decent price on Amazon and it'll arrive tomorrow with Prime, so I've got a week and a half to go through it and make a start before classes commence.

Currently don't have time to delve into the rest of your post but I just wanted to say this before you do something stupid: please don't waste your money on books about learning kana. You can learn kana just from printing out a chart and start writing them. It really isn't that hard. I started studying Japanese by printing out a katakana and hiragana table and I just went over them on a holiday. To my surprise I had them memorized in two days and I'm really glad I didn't buy any books for it. If you have trouble memorizing them, use a free online tool or something, there's literally dozens of them.

Also that book in particular uses the Heisig method and while I don't have any experience with it myself, it doesn't have a particular good reputation around here iirc.

 

[Beckx]

Also that book in particular uses the Heisig method and while I don't have any experience with it myself, it doesn't have a particular good reputation around here iirc.

i agree with you that no one needs to spend money learning kana

however, the book has almost zero relation to the method for learning kanji, other than both rely on mnemonics, which is not the big problem with the heisig kanji method. (the big problem with the heisig kanji method is you're spending a lot of time learning kanji w/o learning readings which means you finish a course (one that still takes significant time and effort!) and still can't read.)

if someone tries the basic free methods and is having trouble remembering the kana, though, i think the mnemonic method in that book would likely help them. plus sometimes people just like books and learning through books. again: find what works for you.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

I am going to ask this again, anyone who had learned mandarin first found it easier or harder to learn japanese? I guess it can be easier because I would know a lot of the characters already, but when I look at the kanji characters to count to 10, I think of the mandarin words instead of the japanese ones and have to take half a second to think of the JP one.

 

[Lagamorph]

It's awesome to see that you're excited about learning Japanese, Lagamorph. I think learning another language is one of the most enriching things a person can do in their life, so cheers and good luck! At the beginning stages, like Beckx said enjoy and have fun with it. Once the foundation is done through this class and some self study then I'd recommend buckling down. I know I should have long ago if I really wanted to see my ability to go anywhere past a rudimentary "Intermediate" level.

As I say, it's something I've been interested in doing for a long time...probably since I was 12 or 13, back in the early Pokemon days. I think it was hearing the first Japanese Pokemon intro that started to pique my interest. I just happened to be Googling for Japanese courses in my area last night, came across Durham University starting a beginners course in less than 2 weeks....hey, seems like fate to me XD

Currently don't have time to delve into the rest of your post but I just wanted to say this before you do something stupid: please don't waste your money on books about learning kana. You can learn kana just from printing out a chart and start writing them. It really isn't that hard. I started studying Japanese by printing out a katakana and hiragana table and I just went over them on a holiday. To my surprise I had them memorized in two days and I'm really glad I didn't buy any books for it. If you have trouble memorizing them, use a free online tool or something, there's literally dozens of them.

Also that book in particular uses the Heisig method and while I don't have any experience with it myself, it doesn't have a particular good reputation around here iirc.

i agree with you that no one needs to spend money learning kana

however, the book has almost zero relation to the method for learning kanji, other than both rely on mnemonics, which is not the big problem with the heisig kanji method. (the big problem with the heisig kanji method is you're spending a lot of time learning kanji w/o learning readings which means you finish a course (one that still takes significant time and effort!) and still can't read.)

if someone tries the basic free methods and is having trouble remembering the kana, though, i think the mnemonic method in that book would likely help them. plus sometimes people just like books and learning through books. again: find what works for you.

It sounds like the best approach for the moment then is to stick with just the Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar book and leave the Kana book, instead using some online resources for that, but if I continue to have trouble the Kana book could be a good pick up for helping out/filling in any gaps.
Are there any online resources people would recommend for those? Ones that I can print out and take to work for during my lunch break or quiet late night shifts would be great.

I'm not sure if the course is going to be using specific textbooks or just printouts, for £125 to get 18 hours of classroom time I'm certainly not expecting them to give out textbooks for us to take away, but they could well be providing some textbooks for use during the classroom sessions that belong to the University, and giving us printouts to take away.

 

[Resilient]

As I say, it's something I've been interested in doing for a long time...probably since I was 12 or 13, back in the early Pokemon days. I think it was hearing the first Japanese Pokemon intro that started to pique my interest. I just happened to be Googling for Japanese courses in my area last night, came across Durham University starting a beginners course in less than 2 weeks....hey, seems like fate to me XD





It sounds like the best approach for the moment then is to stick with just the Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar book and leave the Kana book, instead using some online resources for that, but if I continue to have trouble the Kana book could be a good pick up for helping out/filling in any gaps.
Are there any online resources people would recommend for those? Ones that I can print out and take to work for during my lunch break or quiet late night shifts would be great.

I'm not sure if the course is going to be using specific textbooks or just printouts, for £125 to get 18 hours of classroom time I'm certainly not expecting them to give out textbooks for us to take away, but they could well be providing some textbooks for use during the classroom sessions that belong to the University, and giving us printouts to take away.

dont waste any money on kana learning books. print a list of them like the people above said and just memorise them until they have stuck. On your lunch break, print the kana, study them for 5-10 minutes then read through this list https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:1000_Japanese_basic_words to the end and in 3 days you should have no problems again plus you learned some new words, bonus points if you try to drill the Kanji at the same time.

 

[Nachos]

If it helps, Kana Mind's on both iOS and Android. I found it after I learned all of the kana, but it seemed like a decent game to practice them with.

 

[Porcile]

I am going to ask this again, anyone who had learned mandarin first found it easier or harder to learn japanese? I guess it can be easier because I would know a lot of the characters already, but when I look at the kanji characters to count to 10, I think of the mandarin words instead of the japanese ones and have to take half a second to think of the JP one.

I don't learn mandarin, but anecdotally speaking from all the Chinese people I've met in Japan, and the Chinese kids at my school they all seem to grasp Japanese better than English for example. My assumption is that this is more a cultural thing like China's proximity to Japan, their jobs and the media they consume etc rather than any similarities between the languages. Of course, this is coming from people I've met who are in Japan right now, but a lot of them learned Japanese before they came to Japan.

 

[Kansoku]

Tobira is really good for prepping you for non textbook materials. Like, really, really good.

I also recommend sneaking in some NHK Easy although that will largely teach you how to read NHK Easy. still worthwhile.

日本語チャレンジN4文法と読む練習 works as a good review book for Genki 1 and 2. Once you finish that, grab Tobira, which is built to teach you how to read non-textbook materials. I wrote some more about it in the old thread, so I'll just link that post.

Thanks, will take a look at Tobira then

 

[Beckx]

amazon.jp has the "look inside" feature enabled for Tobira, and amazon.com does not. so go there to scan the first chapter, etc.

i just bought Tobira and the grammar workbook. buying both together from amazon.jp and shipping to the US (DHL) cost $60. buying the textbook alone on amazon.com is $90. so no need to spend the high price that amazon.com wants.

 

[Hypron]

amazon.jp has the "look inside" feature enabled for Tobira, and amazon.com does not. so go there to scan the first chapter, etc.

i just bought Tobira and the grammar workbook. buying both together from amazon.jp and shipping to the US (DHL) cost $60. buying the textbook alone on amazon.com is $90. so no need to spend the high price that amazon.com wants.

Express international shipping (the only shipping available actually) is pretty cheap on amazon JP too. Last time I ordered a book from there it arrived in 3 days.

I actually also ordered Tobira two days ago. I finished reading through Genki II while I was on holidays. I didn't do the exercises because they bore me out of my mind but I've got the grammar/vocab points on Anki. Hopefully that + lots of reading practice will be enough.

I also did 30 min of shadowing every day, I think it's already helping my listening skills and intonation. I'll try to keep that up now that I'll be going to uni again.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

amazon.jp has the "look inside" feature enabled for Tobira, and amazon.com does not. so go there to scan the first chapter, etc.

i just bought Tobira and the grammar workbook. buying both together from amazon.jp and shipping to the US (DHL) cost $60. buying the textbook alone on amazon.com is $90. so no need to spend the high price that amazon.com wants.

Sort of off topic, but I just wanted to comment that Amazon.co.jp's "なか見" for "Look Inside" is an amazingly well done localization.

 

[nicoga3000]

This gets asked a lot, and I'm really sorry.

I've read the OP, so bear with me. My wife and I are planning to go to Japan in a few years. It's something I've always wanted to do. We were going to go this year, but we decided to do Europe instead (Oktoberfest in Germany, Disney Paris, and a whole bunch of places in Italy) after finding flights for $400 round trip per person. As a result, we decided to move Japan forward to take advantage of the cheap flights.

Moving forward, I want to spend time really learning Japanese. Not just for our trip, but because (like a lot of people on GAF), I like to digest Japanese media of all sorts. I checked both of the absolute beginner books in the OP, but I'm not sure which one to start with. Both GENKI and JFBP seem to have their own set of pros/cons. I don't want to get two books and overwhelm myself with different teaching styles at the start.

People also suggest learning the kana. But with that, I don't really know where to start. Do I just download some flashcards and try and memorize them? Should I write them? I'm just a bit overwhelmed with where and how to start on anything.

Anyone want to talk me down and help me get a plan in place?

 

[Beckx]

Tae Kim's site has a complete introduction to grammar plus all the kana (and pronunciations), so it's a nice place to start. www.guidetojapanese.org

it covers everything you learn in Genki I & II and it's free, but for me i found that it works better as a supplementary material instead of primary textbook.

but yeah, download some sheets (google should pull up resources) and just memorize. as i said above, if you find that's not really working for you, then Remembering the Kana will do it. (Again, only spend money learning kana if you have to)

 

[Hypron]

You'll find tons of different methods on the internet to learn the language (or any other language actually). There's no optimal way to go about it, different textbooks/methods have their own pros and cons.

I'd recommend just finding one that seems good and sticking with it. Try to avoid the temptation of switching to another one unless you find that the one you chose really doesn't mesh with you. It's more time efficient to always move forwards instead of moving laterally.

I personally went with Genki and found it pretty good. The material is well laid out and progress is very smooth, which helps when you are starting out. Some of the terms they use in their grammar explanations can sound a little bit pompous/overly academic at times but they are still easy to understand. It's also got audio for most things and some short texts that are pretty good. It takes a while to get to a level where you can consume material that's not specifically targeted at beginners (I'm not quite there yet either), so it's good to be able to read something at least.

 

[kubus]

I have to do a "speech" / presentation about a Japanese saying or ことわざ　tomorrow and all this time I thought I had the perfect saying but now that I'm googling it nothing turns up.

I stumbled upon it last week or so but can't remember where. It was:

積みは罪

Or at least I think it was, but maybe I'm remembering wrong. Anyway when I read this I quickly made a note of it and I thought about talking about new year's resolutions and trying to clear my books and games backlog during my speech. But that plan kinda falls apart if this saying doesn't really exist, lol.

Just wondering if there's something similar or maybe I wrote it down incorrectly?

edit: Tried some more google fu and there actually are results for 積みは罪 but it seems all the hits are related to Gunpla, lol. Did I actually stumble upon some otaku lingo? It seems to refer to the stacking of gunpla boxes, but I was going more for a 積読 kinda angle :/.

edit 2: I think I found where I picked up on this phrase. It was a tweet by Kojima xD.

 

[Gacha-pin]

I've never heard of it. But you should go with 積読(つんど&#12367は罪 as your own phrase. 積読 is kinda slang-ish but it also shows how well your understanding to the language

積読は罪 - kubus -
2017～2XXX

 

[TheSporkWithin]

積読 is kinda slang-ish but it also shows how well your understanding to the language

Really it just shows that you have some anime-nerd friends on facebook. They've turned "tsundoku" and "ikigai" into the two prime examples of the profundity of the Japanese language and like to share posts about them every few months. They're even deeper than "mono no aware."

Spoilered for those who gag at the sight of such posts. Here are some examples.

Spoiler

And Tofugu even made a whole post about the amazing word "tsundoku."

 

[kubus]

I've never heard of it. But you should go with 積読(つんど&#12367は罪 as your own phrase. 積読 is kinda slang-ish but it also shows how well your understanding to the language

積読は罪 - kubus -
2017～2XXX

Lol, thanks for your input! . I decided to go with 積みは罪 anyway as 積読 is just one word and probably wouldn't qualify for the theme of the speech, whereas I can probably get away with 積みは罪 and perhaps score some extra points with the teacher for "making up" my own saying . I'll see if I can throw in 積読 somewhere too because it suits the theme.

And yeah, I've seen those kind of images float around social media before. I think another one is 改善. I even had a colleague ask me if I knew that word, because he read about it on the internet and he thought it was so inspiring. I don't remember exactly where I picked up on 積読 but I think it might have been when I played the Japanese version of Animal Crossing. There's an item that is literally a pile of books with the name 積読. AC can be really good for building vocab, I noticed.

 

[Raw64life]

You guys, check this out:

https://www.satorireader.com/

I'm signing up for this and studying one hour a day for the whole of 2017. I know a bit of Japanese, but this will really help me with grammer and Kanji. I'm pretty excited.

I used this site a bit while it was in beta since I used Human Japanese and liked it. I'm hoping that down the road they'll do like WaniKani and offer a lifetime subscription that I can save up. I try to avoid monthly fees whenever possible.

 

[Gacha-pin]

I have no clue how Japan sub-cal fan gaijin-san communities take 積読. I just thougt it was a good example how you can make a new word using two kanjis. You can't do this if you just learn them superficially.

 

[Forkball]

Really it just shows that you have some anime-nerd friends on facebook. They've turned "tsundoku" and "ikigai" into the two prime examples of the profundity of the Japanese language and like to share posts about them every few months. They're even deeper than "mono no aware."

Spoilered for those who gag at the sight of such posts. Here are some examples.

Spoiler

And Tofugu even made a whole post about the amazing word "tsundoku."

木漏れ日needs a bigger push into the mainstream.

#木漏れ日

 

[Gacha-pin]

Lol, thanks for your input! . I decided to go with 積みは罪 anyway as 積読 is just one word and probably wouldn't qualify for the theme of the speech, whereas I can probably get away with 積みは罪 and perhaps score some extra points with the teacher for "making up" my own saying . I'll see if I can throw in 積読 somewhere too because it suits the theme.

And yeah, I've seen those kind of images float around social media before. I think another one is 改善. I even had a colleague ask me if I knew that word, because he read about it on the internet and he thought it was so inspiring. I don't remember exactly where I picked up on 積読 but I think it might have been when I played the Japanese version of Animal Crossing. There's an item that is literally a pile of books with the name 積読. AC can be really good for building vocab, I noticed.

Probably, your colleague got 改善 from Toyota's case study.

 

[PreyingShark]

Really it just shows that you have some anime-nerd friends on facebook. They've turned "tsundoku" and "ikigai" into the two prime examples of the profundity of the Japanese language and like to share posts about them every few months. They're even deeper than "mono no aware."

Spoilered for those who gag at the sight of such posts. Here are some examples.

And Tofugu even made a whole post about the amazing word "tsundoku."[/SPOILER]

Don't get me started on those kinds of people oh my god...

 

[Kilrogg]

Just wanted to say: I hope I'm an expert isn't permabanned. Not when I'm about to start the whiteboard method and he's yet to do a listening/thinking version of it :/.

 

[Porcile]

Just wanted to say: I hope I'm an expert isn't permabanned. Not when I'm about to start the whiteboard method and he's yet to do a listening/thinking version of it :/.

There was a listening part.

 

[Kilrogg]

There was a listening part.

Really? Where?

 

[Porcile]

In the old thread. I can't search for it now, but it's there.