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Learning Japanese |OT| ..honor and shame are huge parts of it. Let's!
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LiveFromKyoto
Member
So I'm playing Phantasy Star II. The Japanese subtitle is 還らざる時の終わりに. I've seen this translated as "At the End of the Restoration" but I'm not sure how you derive 'restoration' from that. Weblio doesn't have a clue about 還らざる時 but I'd just read that as the literary form of 還らない since it has a noun attached. My own translation would be "To the End of the Time of No Return" or something like that. Am I missing something?
Probably because 還る isnt just the same as 帰る. 還る has a kind of 戻す type meaning, bringing something back.
e.g 大政奉還 - the restoration of the emperor's rule kicking off the Meiji era. I don't know the story of the game but does something like that happen?
My favorite game of all time.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Not as far as I'm aware, no royalty mentioned anywhere so far. Just a rogue AI that's mismanaging the solar system. But even if there were it doesn't make sense to me, since 還らざる is a negative form, it's just a conjuncted 還らず.
I'm wondering if maybe someone just found a dictionary that used 奉還 as the basis for a definition of 還 and ran with a bad translation.
Beckx said:
I've always had a fascination for it, the game's always had this aura, but I've never been able to finish it. I tried various versions of it that were released on Dreamcast, GBA SP, PS3, iPad, but the game is so grind-heavy and the dungeons so brutal (why can you only see 2 feet in front of you?) that I always ended up giving up. But still, the game had a pull, and it was the one video game on my bucket list. One day, I would finish it even if I was 80.
I had to jump through weird PSN store hoops (you can't buy it through the Vita store for some reason, you can only buy it on the website and transfer it via PS3), but I finally got the PSP Genesis Collection for my Vita. The sound is a little off, but this is the perfect way to experience the game. Everything from the controls to the colour pop from the OLED screen to the visual filter & save states make it feel amazing and the world just sucked me right in. I know it will never have quite the impact it would have had experiencing it new (I can't imagine how mind-blowing it must have been going from 8-bit rpgs to this monstrosity), but I'm finally on a roll with it (just finished Climatrol) and I know I'm going to finish it this time.
Nice! Yeah, it was so amazing at the time. The original (also one of my top 5 games) was head and shoulders above everything else in the 8 bit era and the sequel really delivered. But man the maps in the hint book that shipped with it were absolutely required.
Sometime soon I am going to try the version released as part of the Japan only PS2 collection (I have it digitally on PS3), since apparently it includes some speed ups and exp increase. Both PS1 and PS2 are very grind heavy. I didn't mind back in the day but now it's harder to justify just running back and forth to level up characters.
I've also got the PS2 remake of the first game to get to someday.
Hope you enjoy, the roller coaster ride only gets better from Climatrol!
Sometime soon I am going to try the version released as part of the Japan only PS2 collection (I have it digitally on PS3), since apparently it includes some speed ups and exp increase. Both PS1 and PS2 are very grind heavy. I didn't mind back in the day but now it's harder to justify just running back and forth to level up characters.
I've also got the PS2 remake of the first game to get to someday.
Hope you enjoy, the roller coaster ride only gets better from Climatrol!
Cheers, man.
gingerbeardman
Member
I need some help translating this sentence.
It's from DS game "1500 DS Spirits Vol 5 Hanafuda" and is the text for the final "mission" of the game.
So, I know it's saying that I need to play in a certain way to complete the mission.
But there are some Hanafuda specific terms in there that mean I do not understand exactly what it is asking?
12ヶ月戦でケンジ相手に
一度も場を流さずに
勝利しろ
Any ideas appreciated! Thank you
It's from DS game "1500 DS Spirits Vol 5 Hanafuda" and is the text for the final "mission" of the game.
So, I know it's saying that I need to play in a certain way to complete the mission.
But there are some Hanafuda specific terms in there that mean I do not understand exactly what it is asking?
12ヶ月戦でケンジ相手に
一度も場を流さずに
勝利しろ
Any ideas appreciated! Thank you
TheSporkWithin
Member
I need some help translating this sentence.
It's from DS game "1500 DS Spirits Vol 5 Hanafuda" and is the text for the final "mission" of the game.
So, I know it's saying that I need to play in a certain way to complete the mission.
But there are some Hanafuda specific terms in there that mean I do not understand exactly what it is asking?
12ヶ月戦でケンジ相手に
一度も場を流さずに
勝利しろ
Any ideas appreciated! Thank you
Beat Kenji on a 12 round match without a draw round.
That's a bit broken language. You would be 笑われる if you say that xD
TheSporkWithin
Member
ただ言葉遊びだよw。I never had a chance to say it, but couldn't it be used in some cases? Maybe in a video game?
ワールドマップで「敵よけ」というアイテムをつかうと、敵が現れられなくなる。
If you use an "Enemy-block" on the world map, enemies become unable to appear.
Of course 現れない is simpler and more natural, but is 現れられなくなる actually incorrect?
I dunno, it just popped into my head when he posted about 笑われる, because 現れる gives trouble just saying the plain form sometimes. And I always forget how much of the word is "in" the kanji.
gingerbeardman
Member
I'll give it a try and report back. Thanks!
I'm not 100% sure if 現れられる is incorrect or not but I can say it sounds very awkward in that sentence. You have dozens of better ways to say the same thing.
敵が現れなくなる
敵が発生できなくなる
敵が出現しなくなる
敵が湧かなくなる
And "spawn" and "respawn" become well used 外来語 in the video game community. You can also say
敵がスポーンしなくなる
You like Hanafuda? You should join Yakuza gaf. You can play Hanafuda games in the game ;p
Wanted to post with my progress report so far since starting the Whiteboard method at the start of the year. I'm 15 days in and still going strong, though when work started back up it cut dramatically into my study time, only managing around 3 hours or so of dedicated study time on average, but that's gotten me through all N4 Kanji since starting so I feel like it's not going too slow. I want to pick up the pace a bit more, so I'm thinking of modifying the amount of new Kanji I add on the weekends to offset me dropping it from 25 to 15 on the weekdays. It was becoming all Kanji and no grammar otherwise, and I still want to try working in listening as well at some point.
Still despite working as an English teacher, I'm lucky to work in Japan and have opportunities for conversational Japanese when at work. I realized I kind of got myself into a gaijin bubble since first moving here and I'm trying to move out of it. Being in the inaka kind of makes that hard at times, so I was wondering if others who have lived in the inaka know of good ways to find interest groups in the area. I've checked the local 活動センター and most of the local bars, but mostly I find people wanting to practice their English instead of being genuinely interested in discussing a topic, let alone talk in Japanese. Might have to get on the train for an hour to get find interest groups in a bigger part of town. Looking for ways to facilitate more Japanese speaking practice and finding friends outside of the gaijin bubble.
Still despite working as an English teacher, I'm lucky to work in Japan and have opportunities for conversational Japanese when at work. I realized I kind of got myself into a gaijin bubble since first moving here and I'm trying to move out of it. Being in the inaka kind of makes that hard at times, so I was wondering if others who have lived in the inaka know of good ways to find interest groups in the area. I've checked the local 活動センター and most of the local bars, but mostly I find people wanting to practice their English instead of being genuinely interested in discussing a topic, let alone talk in Japanese. Might have to get on the train for an hour to get find interest groups in a bigger part of town. Looking for ways to facilitate more Japanese speaking practice and finding friends outside of the gaijin bubble.
My guess is it would be hard to find communities like that in the inaka, unless you can hang out with the college crowd. If any local colleges have circles that are pretty open or have any kind of reach outside of campus that might work. The other option is online of course, but in person relations might take a bit of hunting. I'm sure they're there, just obviously a lot easier in the city.
Do you live in an apartment? I lived in a multinational geshuku for a year and that was a pretty great way to meet interesting people and get introduced to various communities, your mileage will very of course and I'm sure it isn't easy to just randomly move.
You could also check if any coworkers have similar interests during a nomikai
Do you live in an apartment? I lived in a multinational geshuku for a year and that was a pretty great way to meet interesting people and get introduced to various communities, your mileage will very of course and I'm sure it isn't easy to just randomly move.
You could also check if any coworkers have similar interests during a nomikai
gingerbeardman
Member
I'm waiting patiently for Yakuza 0 which will be my first one in the series.
For now, more help needed!
12ヶ月戦でメルメルを相手に相手を6文以下に抑え勝利しろ
Don't let my opponent get more than 6 points in the whole 12 month game. Am I right?
Valkerionseven
Member
Could anyone help with a random translation/cleaning up for this lyric. Students want to use this lyric to write something... then were like "oh can you write it in English for us!?" but the song is Japanese so...
何十年先も　君を友達って思ってる 辛い時は　何でも話してよ いい事ばかりじゃない　この先の僕らの毎日に これだけはずっと言える　本当ありがとう... 友よ
Closest I can think is something like...
I'll think about you as friend(s) for years
You can tell me anything when you have a hard time
We won't always have good times in our futures [Everyday won't always be a good time]
But I can say to you 'thank you'
Something like that... without being too literal about it. Trying to make it still make sense to the lyric but not mess up the emotion its trying to convey.
... least I think this is the lyric lol... I was listening to them say it, and think this is the part they were talking about when I just looked it up lol. Will ask them again in like a hour.
何十年先も　君を友達って思ってる 辛い時は　何でも話してよ いい事ばかりじゃない　この先の僕らの毎日に これだけはずっと言える　本当ありがとう... 友よ
Closest I can think is something like...
I'll think about you as friend(s) for years
You can tell me anything when you have a hard time
We won't always have good times in our futures [Everyday won't always be a good time]
But I can say to you 'thank you'
Something like that... without being too literal about it. Trying to make it still make sense to the lyric but not mess up the emotion its trying to convey.
... least I think this is the lyric lol... I was listening to them say it, and think this is the part they were talking about when I just looked it up lol. Will ask them again in like a hour.
It's from Shin-chan?
Valkerionseven
Member
ketsumeishi - tomo yo
is the artist and song, not sure if it was in crayon shin-chan
edit: yeah it was in the shin-chan movie this year.
That's right.
Today officially marks the beginning of my whiteboard journey with Hastati who posted in the thread a bit earlier.
"Learning" 12 kanji and words I already know took me 2 frickin' hours, so I shudder to think how much time I'm gonna have to sacrifice on this, but finishing a session feels great.
ガッツ！ファイト！
"Learning" 12 kanji and words I already know took me 2 frickin' hours, so I shudder to think how much time I'm gonna have to sacrifice on this, but finishing a session feels great.
ガッツ！ファイト！
Senpai? Pft. I'm more ambitious than that. I want shachou to notice me.
But to be more serious: yeah, I technically have a major in Japanese, I technically lived in Japan for a year, and I technically already passed the JLPT1. I also technically am reading a Murakami Haruki novel in Japanese and technically listening to a podcast in Japanese.
But I suck in practice because I lack said practice and I've been lazy ever since I got back from Japan 5 years ago. My kanji writing skills are awful, my reading comprehension is slow, my listening comprehension is mediocre at best, and my speech lacks fluidity big time. My only remaining pride is that I have a decent accent.
Heck, before starting the kanji list yesterday I wrote both syllabaries just in case, and it turns out I couldn't remember a couple katakana and had trouble with one hiragana. The shame!
This has to stop.
Respect, appreciate the input yall.
Actually the business I work for is a sort of local business instead of a big company, and the boss put me up in a house that was otherwise unoccupied, so I'm sort of renting a house. It has some positives, but one downside is that nothing is around me in this relatively residential area. I checked out the local college options, but its a sort of specialized college for getting work at shrines, so nothing doing there.
I've slowly been making friends out of acquaintances since moving here back last April, so I'm not hurting too bad for human interaction, just wanted to get a feel for any advice on breaking into Japanese interest groups. Honestly I'm probably getting ahead of myself and should just keep on the low while getting through this major studying phase.
I know how you feel. Majoring in Japanese and then already being in Japan for almost a year and I still don't have nearly the comprehension of the language I feel I should, and its because despite studying the language for going on 5 years, I've never actually cut the bullshit and actually focused all my time and dedicated my life to it.
I'm there with ya, whiteboard method or bust for me. On day 17 and going strong with a writing list that's getting way out of hand in terms of time needed to study, and I'm ecstatic about that.
I just wanted to check in to say that I've acomplished to learn the entire Hiragana and Katakana alphabet by heart. Took me around 2 weeks - I guess I'm a bit slow. This is only a small step into a huge world, but at this point I'm really motivated to continue learning.
I guess now it's time to think about a system for a steady learning of Kanji and grammar.
I guess now it's time to think about a system for a steady learning of Kanji and grammar.
It's funny you should quote me about the whiteboard method right after you quoted Hastati: Hastati is actually an IRL friend of mind who took the initiative to start whiteboarding. He asked me along, and here we are, on day 2 of our journey. We're sharing a Google Doc with the entire list of JLPT kanji with a few words for each, and every day we keep track of our sessions so it feels like a common effort...
And also to feel shame if we ever fall behind the other
We'll be with you in spirit
.So, now that I've learned Hiragana and Katakana I was getting into learning Kanji. I guess I will start with the over 200 radicals first and dig right into the JLPT N5 afterwards - from what I've read this seems to be the smartest order, right?
And I guess you need to learn both the Onyomi and the Kunyomi reading (which one is the more common reading btw?), right? Phew, this will be tough, especially since sometimes there seem to be two different forms for a reading and I'm not exactly sure which of them I definitely need to learn.
Like for example in mountain: サン and セン
And I guess you need to learn both the Onyomi and the Kunyomi reading (which one is the more common reading btw?), right? Phew, this will be tough, especially since sometimes there seem to be two different forms for a reading and I'm not exactly sure which of them I definitely need to learn.
Like for example in mountain: サン and セン
It's funny you should quote me about the whiteboard method right after you quoted Hastati: Hastati is actually an IRL friend of mind who took the initiative to start whiteboarding. He asked me along, and here we are, on day 2 of our journey. We're sharing a Google Doc with the entire list of JLPT kanji with a few words for each, and every day we keep track of our sessions so it feels like a common effort....And also to feel shame if we ever fall behind the other
We'll be with you in spirit
Since you already understand Japanese, do you go word in kana -> word in kanji or do you still go English word -> Japanese word?
The vast majority of guides do not recommend learning the onyomi and kunyomi in isolation. Learning vocabulary that uses the Kanji is a more efficient use of your time; you will increase your vocabulary and you will learn kanji readings in context at the same time.
The most common reading will vary between kanji. Some kanji have more than 10 different readings. Which is why it's easier to learn vocabulary.
Well, since we're starting from N5 and N4 and I pretty much know all the words so far, I'll admit I choose to glance over the meanings and readings. I still look at them, but if you're asking whether I physically write the meanings and readings of kanji and words, the answer is no, for now anyway. Instead, I'm focusing on writing the kanji and the words, including stroke order when I'm not sure about one or two strokes, and kanji found in words that I haven't studies in the kanji list - again, because I know/used to know them so they're easy to remember. I don't skip a single word or kanji though, no matter how simple or obvious.
My method is likely to evolve quite a bit as I go into some of the rarer/more complicated kanji and words that I might have forgotten due to lack of practice. But I doubt that will happen before I get to N2 content, if not N1. I'm expecting N1 kanji/vocabulary and grammar to be the point where my study time will grow exponentially, as I'll be encountering stuff that I didn't learn properly back when I took the N1, if at all... Yeah, I didn't prepare for N1 much if I'm honest, and I lucked out and barely passed.
I agree and don't bother with radicals. You'll learn the way they're written over time and that makes identifying them easier for look ups.
Yeah, I will definitely try to learn vocabulary only with the combination of Kanji. I have to admit, it really feels intimidating and overwhelming though.
I mean look at this:
If you stumble upon this during your learning do you really have to learn all these different readings? This seems kind of insane for me
eot
Banned
Yeah, I will definitely try to learn vocabulary only with the combination of Kanji. I have to admit, it really feels intimidating and overwhelming though.
I mean look at this:
If you stumble upon this during your learning do you really have to learn all these different readings? This seems kind of insane for me
Most kanji do not have that many readings. That is just a "look how difficult Japanese is!" example
Yeah, I will definitely try to learn vocabulary only with the combination of Kanji. I have to admit, it really feels intimidating and overwhelming though.
I mean look at this:
If you stumble upon this during your learning do you really have to learn all these different readings? This seems kind of insane for me
I see about 5 different readings there in kun, most of the others will never be written like that. Noboru is very rarely written with just the Kanji for instance (sorry at work, no JP keyboard). Ue is usually written (U kanji)e. I've very rarely seen Ue as just the Kanji.
The key is to look at the . it's nobo.ru meaning Nobo in kanji with ru as hiragana, which from personal experience is how it's a lot more commonly written..
I learnt Kanji in a very informal way. All my knowledge of Kanji comes from words, not readings. The readings came to me from learning words at least. I've never sat down and studied Kanji individually, but hey it works for me.
marimorimo
Member
As mentioned by other posters, it's why it's best to learn vocabulary, not readings. You will learn the reading very naturally by learning the vocabulary.
うえ is the standard, and most straightforward kunyomi. It means "up"
上着 （うわぎ）means "jacket" so now you have the possible reading "うわ" up your sleeve. Makes sense since the kanji literally means "upper wear" versus "underwear" which is...tada.. 下着　したぎ。
かみ is not as common, but I usually see it in place names or other proper nouns. Memorize the word 川上 (かわかみ）= upstream, upper reaches of a river to remember it. Or Haruki Murakami's surname：村上
あが〜 And あげ〜 are just variations of the same verb あげる、あがる (transitive vs. intransitive) = raise/rise, go up
のぼ．る also means to go up (but more in the sense of "climb") although in practice most people write the verb のぼる as 登る except when used in conjunction with another word/kanji such as 上り電車 (のぼりでんしゃ）inbound train, usually meaning going "up" to the city/Tokyo.
The standard onyomi on the other hand is じょう
上司（じょうし
your superior, your boss at work地上 （ちじょう）on the ground ("above" ground)
It's actually quite logical and not as difficult as it sounds. When reading kanji, you have to look at it in context, how it stands with the other kanji beside it and how it stands in the whole sentence. I have no idea how anybody could learn to read kanji just by memorizing one reading after the other without memorizing vocabulary. No context at all to draw from. How can you figure out which reading to use for each situation if you don't know how they work with the other kanji or kana?
There could be some other exotic readings out there but as long as you know the standard readings (such as above) you're all set.
I agree with most of what you said but wut. うえ isn't written as 上え, it's just plain old 上。And I've seen 上 by itself plenty of times. Although you probably mean that it's more common to combine it with other words/kanji in which case I agree with you.
I find kanji that may only have one or two readings, but the vocabulary is less common (at my level), to be the most difficult.
The ones with 5+ general use readings seem to generally be super common kanji. Like even after only a few months of genki you should be effortlessly able to know that 本日、三日、日本、日曜日、＆　ある日 all represent different readings for 日. Add in other common words like 明後日 and 今日 and you've got 7+ possible ways to read the character and it was easy!
the ones where the readings tend to show up in scientific language or whatever, those are the hard ones for me. or the ones where the kanji with a certain radical will always have a specific on'yomi reading for one of its readings, EXCEPT for one or two exceptions.
The ones with 5+ general use readings seem to generally be super common kanji. Like even after only a few months of genki you should be effortlessly able to know that 本日、三日、日本、日曜日、＆　ある日 all represent different readings for 日. Add in other common words like 明後日 and 今日 and you've got 7+ possible ways to read the character and it was easy!
the ones where the readings tend to show up in scientific language or whatever, those are the hard ones for me. or the ones where the kanji with a certain radical will always have a specific on'yomi reading for one of its readings, EXCEPT for one or two exceptions.
Thank you very kindly to all of you for your help and advice. I still have some (probably very stupid) questions that I need to ask - I feel like there isn't much sense in starting to learn Kanji when I still haven't grasped the concept behind it.
So, from what you said, I understand that the reading will be a different one depending on the context - and that you can get a feeling for the context and the different readings by studying the reading compounds, right? However, if you don't combine it with another kanji or another element, the very first reading (for Onyomi and Kunyomi) will mostly suffice for now (the ones I painted red like here
There are still cases that I don't understand at all though! For example, I looked up words that would end with the 日 Kanji to see its different readings and I stumbled upon this one:
今日 (today) and was shocked that the way you read it was ' きょう ' ! That doesn't make any sense to me, since neither for 今 nor for 日 there seemed to be a simular reading in the dictionary entry. So how does that happen? Are these exceptions?
And my last question: what do you exactly mean when you said to only learn the vocabulary and not the readings? I feel like I'm missing something here and I feel stupid because of it:
Here are the cards I'm using to learn the JLPT N5 Kanji with:
So what do you suggest me to learn exactly? Only the Kanji (the look and the stroke order) and the meaning of it (in this case: sun/day)? But why should I ignore the reading? In this case, if I read a Japanese text, I would be only able to recognize the Kanji and picture 'sun' in my mind, but I would never know how to actually read it out loud, so when there's a text with 'sun' written out as Kana I would never be able to recognize it. Unless I'm missing something here, it seems to me that ignoring the reading would be a huge loss.
Sorry again for asking stupid questions.
So, from what you said, I understand that the reading will be a different one depending on the context - and that you can get a feeling for the context and the different readings by studying the reading compounds, right? However, if you don't combine it with another kanji or another element, the very first reading (for Onyomi and Kunyomi) will mostly suffice for now (the ones I painted red like here
There are still cases that I don't understand at all though! For example, I looked up words that would end with the 日 Kanji to see its different readings and I stumbled upon this one:
今日 (today) and was shocked that the way you read it was ' きょう ' ! That doesn't make any sense to me, since neither for 今 nor for 日 there seemed to be a simular reading in the dictionary entry. So how does that happen? Are these exceptions?
And my last question: what do you exactly mean when you said to only learn the vocabulary and not the readings? I feel like I'm missing something here and I feel stupid because of it:
Here are the cards I'm using to learn the JLPT N5 Kanji with:
So what do you suggest me to learn exactly? Only the Kanji (the look and the stroke order) and the meaning of it (in this case: sun/day)? But why should I ignore the reading? In this case, if I read a Japanese text, I would be only able to recognize the Kanji and picture 'sun' in my mind, but I would never know how to actually read it out loud, so when there's a text with 'sun' written out as Kana I would never be able to recognize it. Unless I'm missing something here, it seems to me that ignoring the reading would be a huge loss.
Sorry again for asking stupid questions.
don't worry too much about 今日. others will be able to give a better explanation, but basically in this case the kanji are chosen for their meaning and attached to the word. there are a few common words like this that you'll run into, but you really only need to learn them as one-off examples and move on. (今日 can also have the reading こんにち which is a different word entirely but aligns with the expected readings...)
don't ignore readings. i think what everyone is saying is that you learn the character and then learn the readings through vocabulary. then you'll know the readings, but in the context of words that you know. when you encounter a new compound, you're going to have to look it up anyway to really know what it means - but you can probably take a decent guess at the reading when you're typing it into your dictionary of choice which will make the process faster.
to give an example, i learn the kanji 園, understand that it means park, and learn the vocabulary word 公園 (こうえん, a public park) that uses the on'yomi reading エン. when i encounter 甲子園 (こうしえん, the Hanshin Tigers' stadium) later i can guess that it may have the same reading (it does) but that might be wrong...either way if it's a new word i need to look it up. does that make sense?
anyway, that's what i do, the more advanced folks will have better answers.
don't ignore readings. i think what everyone is saying is that you learn the character and then learn the readings through vocabulary. then you'll know the readings, but in the context of words that you know. when you encounter a new compound, you're going to have to look it up anyway to really know what it means - but you can probably take a decent guess at the reading when you're typing it into your dictionary of choice which will make the process faster.
to give an example, i learn the kanji 園, understand that it means park, and learn the vocabulary word 公園 (こうえん, a public park) that uses the on'yomi reading エン. when i encounter 甲子園 (こうしえん, the Hanshin Tigers' stadium) later i can guess that it may have the same reading (it does) but that might be wrong...either way if it's a new word i need to look it up. does that make sense?
anyway, that's what i do, the more advanced folks will have better answers.
Keep in mind the "meaning(s)" of the kanji is essentially just a keyword to help you figure out what a word that uses it means. Some kanji can be used as standalone words and tend to have fairly consistent meanings, like 日, but it is not the case for all of them. Since the meanings are only keywords you don't even need to learn them to understand the language (but they can help).
The most important thing is to learn vocabulary.
So in your case, you want to learn 日. If it helps you, go ahead and learn the keyword day right away. Then, learn a couple of words that use it:　一日（いちにち）　二日（ふつか）　三日（みっか）　日曜日（にちようび）　ある日（あるひ）　本日（ほんじつ）, etc. When we say "learn the word", we mean learn what the word means and how to say it.
Now you can read all those words, and since you know how they are pronounced, next time you see a word that uses 日 you'll be able to try to guess how it's pronounced.
However, keep in mind that this will just be a guess and if you don't know that new word, you should still look up what it really means and how to really say it.
Just because you know the kanji's keywords and a few ways to read it doesn't mean that you'll automatically be able to understand or read every word that use it. It will give you some strong hints as to what those words can mean, but at the end of the day you'll still need to learn what they really mean.
I hope that makes sense.
The most important thing is to learn vocabulary.
So in your case, you want to learn 日. If it helps you, go ahead and learn the keyword day right away. Then, learn a couple of words that use it:　一日（いちにち）　二日（ふつか）　三日（みっか）　日曜日（にちようび）　ある日（あるひ）　本日（ほんじつ）, etc. When we say "learn the word", we mean learn what the word means and how to say it.
Now you can read all those words, and since you know how they are pronounced, next time you see a word that uses 日 you'll be able to try to guess how it's pronounced.
However, keep in mind that this will just be a guess and if you don't know that new word, you should still look up what it really means and how to really say it.
Just because you know the kanji's keywords and a few ways to read it doesn't mean that you'll automatically be able to understand or read every word that use it. It will give you some strong hints as to what those words can mean, but at the end of the day you'll still need to learn what they really mean.
I hope that makes sense.
marimorimo
Member
However, if you don't combine it with another kanji or another element, the very first reading (for Onyomi and Kunyomi) will mostly suffice for now (the ones I painted red like here
I still feel like you're approaching it in the reverse manner. You don't just go "This kanji has 6 different readings, but I'll memorize only the first two most common ones." Take the case of 日、for example. Memorizing only ひ and ニチ gives you the most common reading, but those two probably only account for about 50% of the possible readings. For example, 本日　（ほんじつ）, a formal way of saying 今日（きょう）is another very common word, so you do not want to skip the onyomi ジツ！
I'm not saying that you should memorize every single reading under the sun, but definitely study more than two readings (if they exist, and if it makes sense to memorize them). Actually, I probably shouldn't say memorize more than two "readings." Memorize more than two vocabulary words instead. For a kanji with as many readings as 日、 you should memorize at least 7 :
ある日　あるひ
日々　ひび
四日　よっか
今日　きょう
日曜日　にちようび
火曜日　かようび
本日　ほんじつ
日本　にほん、にっぽん
This gives you a sample of all the possible use cases. Chances are, if you've been half paying attention to your grammar book/teacher, you probably already know all the above vocabulary. Congratulations, now you know their kanji too.
A good kanji book would give you the most common useful vocabulary you need to memorize in order to make the reading stick.
Just a quick note on marimorimo's post: her piece of advice is generally right, with one caveat: if you're doing I'm an expert's whiteboard method, chances are you're never gonna see the end of it if you memorize all the readings and/or words with all the readings for every kanji. It's just too much. Besides, some readings are much rarer than others, and it's not practical or efficient to learn them outright. You're better off focusing on the most common readings and associated words, and learn the rest of the readings as you go along. You'll encounter them soon enough if you read books, the news, blogs or anything else, really.
The goal is to be able to read/understand 95+% of kanji and words you see, not literally 100%.
The goal is to be able to read/understand 95+% of kanji and words you see, not literally 100%.
Reading stuff outside your textbooks is veeeery important when you're learning a language. Chances are the ones you own don't have every single word of the language so yeah, you'll learn by actually experiencing what's out there.
I feel like teachers/textbooks don't emphasize on that nearly enough, and you quickly see who's just sticking to learning materials VS who actively reads books/magazines/whatever you want. You'll learn more that way.
There's a girl in class with who's always complaining when the teacher gives a an article written in Japanese (the class is like half English/half Japanese) and she never makes an effort to read it. "Oooh but it's too hard. I don't have enough vocabulary!"
Yeah no shit, then read the thing and pick up new words while doing so. Drives me nuts lol
I feel like teachers/textbooks don't emphasize on that nearly enough, and you quickly see who's just sticking to learning materials VS who actively reads books/magazines/whatever you want. You'll learn more that way.
There's a girl in class with who's always complaining when the teacher gives a an article written in Japanese (the class is like half English/half Japanese) and she never makes an effort to read it. "Oooh but it's too hard. I don't have enough vocabulary!"
Yeah no shit, then read the thing and pick up new words while doing so. Drives me nuts lol
marimorimo
Member
Just to clarify, I'm not saying you should memorize all possible vocabulary, a.k.a. readings, which is an impossible task. I suggest you memorize only the vocabulary that make sense to learn. It could be two words, or it could be five. It depends on the kanji itself. (By the way, personally I like learning at least 4 words for each kanji).
The case of 日 is a particular one as it has so many possible readings, and IMO every single one of those readings is important and should be memorized. They're basics. Again, reading=vocabulary. Fortunately, most kanji only have two "must-learn" readings, sometimes three. So at the minimum you can memorize just two vocabulary words and consider that kanji memorized.
That's why I believe it's important to have a good resource for learning kanji. The book/app/site should give the learner only the most relevant vocabulary and not waste their time with exotic readings that they will likely not encounter much.
The case of 日 is a particular one as it has so many possible readings, and IMO every single one of those readings is important and should be memorized. They're basics. Again, reading=vocabulary. Fortunately, most kanji only have two "must-learn" readings, sometimes three. So at the minimum you can memorize just two vocabulary words and consider that kanji memorized.
That's why I believe it's important to have a good resource for learning kanji. The book/app/site should give the learner only the most relevant vocabulary and not waste their time with exotic readings that they will likely not encounter much.
The Kodansha's Learner guide seems pretty good to me to learn Kanji from. The vocab for new Kanji only uses Kanji you've already learnt, which streamlines things and saves time, it sorts the vocabulary by meaning and it tells you which words are common and worth memorising. I'm about 500 Kanji in at the moment. Still 1,800 to go...