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[maniac-kun]

Don't take this the wrong way, as I think it's awesome that you want to read stuff and all. You're obviously more motivated than I was back when I started.

But if you're thinking "maybe by reading stuff I'll get used to the kana", I think you're doing it wrong. If you think about it, learning kana is like learning the alphabet, except it's got 4 times as many characters. In other words: it's easy. By easy, I don't mean "you'll know all of them in 2 days". I mean "drill them for a few weeks and you'll be good to go". Don't necessarily try to read manga or short stories right now. Your basic reading and comprehension skills aren't high enough yet. You'll get there, but master the kana first. It's boring, I know, but it's short... Much shorter than learning kanji for sure . There's a necessary drilling part to all this. It's not just fun and games and "oh, I can play a game in Japanese now!" Finish learning the very basics first.

When you're ready, yeah, you can probably read things like Yotsuba.

tl;dr: you don't really need to "practice" something as basic as hiragana and katakana through actual reading material. Just power through it and you'll be fine. It's more efficient and effective.

Well okay I started 3 days ago and used memrise - hiragana and duolingo to learn Hiragana and im excited to use the knowgledge. But Yea I should train more and then start this new path when I finished at least the katakana part. I also have the book Japanese from Zero 1 as a guide.

 

[Kilrogg]

Well okay I started 3 days ago and used memrise - hiragana and duolingo to learn Hiragana and im excited to use the knowgledge. But Yea I should train more and then start this new path when I finished at least the katakana part. I also have the book Japanese from Zero 1 as a guide.

To expand on what I said, I used to teach Japanese at the beginner level as an optional topic in a college course that had nothing to do with language. Taught it for 4 months. Some students were highly motivated, others I couldn't even get to know the kana by the end of the 4 months. And guess what? The latter, who thought you could just learn the stuff as you go, were left behind, and would actually slow down class. To be sure, you're much more motivated than they were, but the point remains: there's no point trying to read if you don't even know the very basics by heart. It'll just be a painful slog. Same goes for basic grammar and vocabulary by the way. If you don't even the meaning of りんご, even the most basic reading material will be tremendously difficult to go through, and will end up killing your motivation.

Be a bit more methodical about it. You need to lay some solid foundations before you can build your house .

[EDIT] Don't let what I said put a damper on your motivation though. Just trying to give you a more efficient mindset and framework to work with.

 

[Porcile]

You could read NHK News Easy with furigana to practice reading hiragana and katakana. Also you can listen to the audio to get a feel for how basic Japanese sounds and flows. Practice reading the hiragana while listening to the audio at the same time. Read out loud etc.
Probably not going to understand shit but it's worth doing for an hour a day. That shit's easy and effective practice for someone with only the most basic skills.

 

[Beckx]

If you want kana reading practice, follow @Cubby_Kamasta on twitter.

Cubby is the mascot of the Kamagaya Fighters (farm club of NPB's Nippon Ham Fighters) and since he's supposed to be a kid & writing for young kids, he posts entirely in kana.

You too can discover the horror of kana walls. And Cubby.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

It's been a while since I have been in one of these threads!

I could actually use some help with some localization work. I am directly working on a localization project for the first time in years and am admittedly a bit rusty.

I have one specific question and a more general one as well.

1) Anyone have a good traditional adage or proverb for this:
年貢の納め時
It's easy enough to translate into normal English, but in the context it needs to be a very traditional out-dated saying, as the character then gets made fun of for using something so out-dated.

2) Any good resources for writing simple sound effects or onomatopoeia in English?
That has always been my weak point when it comes to localization and even simple stuff like unique laughs (e.g. オッホホホホホ&#12507 and such cause me trouble.

 

[KtSlime]

It's been a while since I have been in one of these threads!

I could actually use some help with some localization work. I am directly working on a localization project for the first time in years and am admittedly a bit rusty.

I have one specific question and a more general one as well.

1) Anyone have a good traditional adage or proverb for this:
年貢の納め時
It's easy enough to translate into normal English, but in the context it needs to be a very traditional out-dated saying, as the character then gets made fun of for using something so out-dated.

2) Any good resources for writing simple sound effects or onomatopoeia in English?
That has always been my weak point when it comes to localization and even simple stuff like unique laughs (e.g. オッホホホホホ&#12507 and such cause me trouble.

The one that comes to mind for 年貢の納め時 is "pay the piper", which sounds a bit outdated.

As for unique laughs, I feel that when using the onomatopoeia in English the author does not put much style into it. You could put a wahahaha, or bwahahaha, for explosive laughing, hohoho for a guttural laugh, or hehehe for a low key laugh. You can adjust the punctuation and length of the laugh, and introduce snorts into it. Or a very cliche sarcastic laugh you can use a variation of har, or hardy har har, but I would say at least the comics I read growing up 99% used just hahahaha.

 

[Alanae]

Just started learning Hiragana and iam about to start learning Katakana. Is there a manga you could recommend for a beginner? I want to practice reading stuff.

Don't take this the wrong way, as I think it's awesome that you want to read stuff and all. You're obviously more motivated than I was back when I started.

But if you're thinking "maybe by reading stuff I'll get used to the kana", I think you're doing it wrong. If you think about it, learning kana is like learning the alphabet, except it's got 4 times as many characters. In other words: it's easy. By easy, I don't mean "you'll know all of them in 2 days". I mean "drill them for a few weeks and you'll be good to go". Don't necessarily try to read manga or short stories right now. Your basic reading and comprehension skills aren't high enough yet. You'll get there, but master the kana first. It's boring, I know, but it's short... Much shorter than learning kanji for sure . There's a necessary drilling part to all this. It's not just fun and games and "oh, I can play a game in Japanese now!" Finish learning the very basics first.

When you're ready, yeah, you can probably read things like Yotsuba.

tl;dr: you don't really need to "practice" something as basic as hiragana and katakana through actual reading material. Just power through it and you'll be fine. It's more efficient and effective.

At the same time, you'll basically be seeing kana pretty much everywhere, meaning its something you will be continuously getting practice in. if by any chance you forget one you'll notice so right away and can always just look look it up. Hence instead of just sticking with only kana for ages, time which could have been spent learning other things such as grammar, its a good idea to go with the "know all of them in 2 days" option and proceeding to spend the rest of Japanese learning career getting exposed to them and having them solidify in your memory more and more.
In other words, why grind to master kana right away when you can just go for good enough and end up mastering it regardless by simply just going on with learning Japanese?

A bigger barrier to reading would be that you should at least get down some basic grammar, without it, you'll be having issues with recognizing things as being grammar, telling particles/verbs/nouns/etc apart and being able to figure out what is going on in a line in general. All this in addition to the struggle to parse sentences one experiences when starting out, making your life much harder.

Regarding manga to read early on, generally those serialized in a shounen magazine are a safe bet. Try to find one that you personally find interesting (in your case https://www.sunday-webry.com/comics/pokemon_sp_b2w2/ perhaps?), it'll help a lot.
One of the manga I read early on was エスピリト which I liked a lot, might be worth giving it a try sometime.

2) Any good resources for writing simple sound effects or onomatopoeia in English?
That has always been my weak point when it comes to localization and even simple stuff like unique laughs (e.g. オッホホホホホ&#12507 and such cause me trouble.

do you mean something like these sites?
http://thejadednetwork.com/sfx/
http://mangastudies.com/sfx/index.php

 

[Sesuadra]

anyone ever made a spreadsheet of vocabulary important for gaming?

like names for typical magics, potions and stuff?

 

[KtSlime]

anyone ever made a spreadsheet of vocabulary important for gaming?

like names for typical magics, potions and stuff?

I did something of that sort a few years ago when I was making a guide for DQMSL, but it didn't seem anyone on GAF was interested in playing the game, so I stopped.

I was thinking about maybe translating DQ11 when it is released this July, but I may be busier than I had originally planned to be this summer, so I may not.

Which RPG are you interested in knowing the vocab for, FF or DQ?

 

[BudokaiMR2]

The one that comes to mind for 年貢の納め時 is "pay the piper", which sounds a bit outdated.

As for unique laughs, I feel that when using the onomatopoeia in English the author does not put much style into it. You could put a wahahaha, or bwahahaha, for explosive laughing, hohoho for a guttural laugh, or hehehe for a low key laugh. You can adjust the punctuation and length of the laugh, and introduce snorts into it. Or a very cliche sarcastic laugh you can use a variation of har, or hardy har har, but I would say at least the comics I read growing up 99% used just hahahaha.

Yeah, I may go with "pay the piper" on that adage. The guy working on the French loc in tandem mentioned this one: "Every fox must pay his own skin to the flayer" which I guess has a similar saying in french as well? But it honestly just doesn't fit the dialogue very well.

And yeah, I usually stick with the ones you mentioned when it comes to laughter.
Will probably continue what I have been doing all along and mostly use "hahahah" - "Mwahahaha" - "Bwahahaha" - "Hehehehe" "Oh-ho-ho-ho"

do you mean something like these sites?
http://thejadednetwork.com/sfx/
http://mangastudies.com/sfx/index.php

Yeah, something like this might come in handy. I've always been terrible at SFX/onomatopoeia .

 

[Galava]

Hello everyone

I am still a "beginner" (1 year of academy and some months of light self-study). And I saw this tweet and I am wondering what exactly is the meaning of it or how could it be translated.

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/877509125868933120

ARMSかと思った

I haven't learned that かと思う form yet. I tried searching it, but can't quite understand it's meaning in this scenario.

Looks like it's some N2 stuff, but i'm curious

 

[Beckx]

isn't that just question phrase + I think? so "is that arms, i'm thinking?" in other words he sees the stretchy dragon in the picture and say he thinks "is that arms?" even though it's completely unrelated to arms. might be way off base but that's what i get. very curious to see what the experts think. i need a separate copy of my grammar dictionary for my bag, lol

 

[KtSlime]

Hello everyone

I am still a "beginner" (1 year of academy and some months of light self-study). And I saw this tweet and I am wondering what exactly is the meaning of it or how could it be translated.

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status/877509125868933120


I haven't learned that かと思う form yet. I tried searching it, but can't quite understand it's meaning in this scenario.

Looks like it's some N2 stuff, but i'm curious

I don't remember it specifically as N2 or anything, but it's nothing too mysterious.

"(and) I thought it was probably (because of) ARMS."

ARMSか -> is it ARMS (that had the effect on the Chinese stocks)?
と思った -> I had thought.

So he had a thought that he was pretty sure of, but was still unknown, then he found out the answer was different. So in this situation the か can be translated to something like might, or probably.

*NOTE: not an expert at translating, I just understand both Japanese and English, I often take too many liberties when transliterating

 

[Dantero]

Reads like it's a joke to me.
Oh, theyre doing well, must be because of ARMS.
Although I don't know what the game has to do with that.

 

[KtSlime]

Reads like it's a joke to me.
Oh, theyre doing well, must be because of ARMS.
Although I don't know what the game has to do with that.

I don't follow him, but I know he does the news on the Japanese game industry for WSJ or something. I read it as a joke. "And here I thought it was because of ARMS", almost like he knew the real cause, but was feigning ignorance or something. But like I said, I really don't know anything about him.

 

[Galava]

I don't follow him, but I know he does the news on the Japanese game industry for WSJ or something. I read it as a joke. "And here I thought it was because of ARMS", almost like he knew the real cause, but was feigning ignorance or something. But like I said, I really don't know anything about him.

Thank you for the explanation!

Things like grammar and vocabulary can be just studied, but things like this, that seem more "casual" or "fluent level expressions" are very interesting to me

 

[kubus]

I saw that tweet in my timeline but interpreted it as that he saw the picture of that dragon first, and then immediately thought of ARMS. I haven't played the game, but isn't there a character who has arms like a Chinese dragon? I could see how one would subconsciously associate a picture of a Chinese dragon with ARMS if you've been exposed a lot to that game in a short time.

Otherwise I really don't see the correlation between ARMS and Chinese stocks...

Direct translation would be something like "Thought this was ARMS" but it carries more the feeling of "First thought was of ARMS". I'm not sure if this specific sentence structure would even be in grammar dictionaries... it's pretty casual .

A similar pattern that you hear more frequently would be "死ぬかと思った". Or "I thought I was gonna die" (like when you're about to fall from somewhere high, or nearly get into in an accident or something).

Or I could be completely wrong, as I'm still learning things myself .

 

[Galava]

I saw that tweet in my timeline but interpreted it as that he saw the picture of that dragon first, and then immediately thought of ARMS. I haven't played the game, but isn't there a character who has arms like a Chinese dragon? I could see how one would subconsciously associate a picture of a Chinese dragon with ARMS if you've been exposed a lot to that game in a short time.

Otherwise I really don't see the correlation between ARMS and Chinese stocks...

Direct translation would be something like "Thought this was ARMS" but it carries more the feeling of "First thought was of ARMS". I'm not sure if this specific sentence structure would even be in grammar dictionaries... it's pretty casual .

A similar pattern that you hear more frequently would be "死ぬかと思った". Or "I thought I was gonna die" (like when you're about to fall from somewhere high, or nearly get into in an accident or something).

Or I could be completely wrong, as I'm still learning things myself .

Yeah, there is a Chinese character called Min Min that uses dragons as "fists".

And yeah, I don't see this kind of expression appearing in an exam or something "formal", but more reactionary on a very informal level.

I'm starting to understand the sentence as (literally translating, using your example?

"死ぬかと思った"
"I Die? I thought" Which as you pointed out, could be "I thought I was going to die"

Well, that's simpler than I thought...

 

[Beckx]

how are everyone's studies going lately? where are you and what have you learned?

for me

• i'm exactly halfway through learning the standard readings for all the joyo kanji
• this in turn has improved my reading a lot, because i can jump directly to my dictionaries to learn a word rather than having to draw the kanji on jisho or something
• because of several factors, i was delayed on working through tobira, but in the last couple of weeks got back into gear, going through chapter 3 now
• tobira remains really challenging; i'm doing okay with the reading/writing but the listening is hard and sometimes i get down about how far behind my listening/speaking are
• but i know what i have to do there and i'm working on it, slowly
• i started reading my first short story in japanese, which is exciting
• i'm also reading the manga Versailles of the Dead (by Ace Attorney character designer Suekane Kumiko) in Japanese and making steady progress

all in all i feel like i'm making forward progress even though i'm constantly feeling the intermediate frustrations of feeling like I don't know *anything* useful. reading real stuff helps alleviate that.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I don't remember it specifically as N2 or anything, but it's nothing too mysterious.

"(and) I thought it was probably (because of) ARMS."

ARMSか -> is it ARMS (that had the effect on the Chinese stocks)?
と思った -> I had thought.

So he had a thought that he was pretty sure of, but was still unknown, then he found out the answer was different. So in this situation the か can be translated to something like might, or probably.

*NOTE: not an expert at translating, I just understand both Japanese and English, I often take too many liberties when transliterating

Yo, dude, I think he was just referring to how that twisty dragon image used in the FT tweet made him think of an ARMS character. You know, with the twisty arms and all that...

 

[KtSlime]

Yo, dude, I think he was just referring to how that twisty dragon image used in the FT tweet made him think of an ARMS character. You know, with the twisty arms and all that...

Thanks. Like I said I knew nothing of the context. I just assumed he was talking about the tweet and not the picture in the tweet.

 

[Galava]

Thanks. Like I said I knew nothing of the context. I just assumed he was talking about the tweet and not the picture in the tweet.

I was talking about the tweet itself, grammar-wise and to be able to understand the reasons behind "this is how you write it". I could understand the meaning just by looking at the picture, ARMS, and 思った

 

[KtSlime]

I was talking about the tweet itself, grammar-wise and to be able to understand the reasons behind "this is how you write it". I could understand the meaning just by looking at the picture, ARMS, and 思った

Sorry, I mean to say that since I did not understand the context I thought that Mochizuki was talking about the content of the Financial Times tweet.

 

[Beckx]

I almost forgot!

I read a great tip for intermediate learners on Tofugu: use an elementary school J-J dictionary instead of J-E. I am not at the level where I can use J-J even though I hate having work in in J-E. but i've found that the elementary school J-J dictionary is simple enough that even though it takes me longer, I can work through the definition in Japanese.

They had recommendations for various physical books but also there's this Sanseido site: https://www.sanseido.biz/User/Dic/Index.aspx

 

[sackboy2197]

Has anyone here tried Jalup NEXT? It's flashcards based, with sentences+audio. Each card has a new word or grammar point. The first hundred cards in each set are free to try, and I quite like the way it works. I especially like that the intermediate and advanced sets do away with english entirely, and instead use J-J definitions.
I'm thinking about buying the whole "package", but I'd like to hear some other opinions first.

 

[KtSlime]

Has anyone here tried Jalup NEXT? It's flashcards based, with sentences+audio. Each card has a new word or grammar point. The first hundred cards in each set are free to try, and I quite like the way it works. I especially like that the intermediate and advanced sets do away with english entirely, and instead use J-J definitions.
I'm thinking about buying the whole "package", but I'd like to hear some other opinions first.

That image confuses me, it looks like Byoudouin, but then again doesn't. Also, the video does not work. Of the part of the website that works it sound nice, but having no way to really try it, or even knowing how much it costs makes it hard to evaluate it's worth.

 

[sackboy2197]

That image confuses me, it looks like Byoudouin, but then again doesn't. Also, the video does not work. Of the part of the website that works it sound nice, but having no way to really try it, or even knowing how much it costs makes it hard to evaluate it's worth.

You can make an account and try it. The account is free; you get the kana deck and 100 cards for each of the other decks (Kanji, Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced).

 

[TatteredHat]

I've been doing Wanikani stuff for about 2 years now and Kanji comprehension is improving steadily but my speaking/chatting ability is still pretty poor by comparison. I haven't been able to find courses that are properly advanced enough that they would be of any use.

Most of the stuff around here is just a few weeks of with the end goal being really basic conversation and learning to read hiragana and katakana, which in my situation is completely useless.

Gotta move to Japan and actually talk to locals there or something.

 

[Beckx]

Question

Was working through a section in Tobira last night that had the following sentence:

英語、ポルトガル語などの外来語から入って来て日本でも使われるようになった言葉を「外来語」と言い、外来語を日本語で書く時はカタカナで書きます。

I don't have any issue understanding the sentence, but one thing that's bothering me is the highlighted でも. Why でも and not では?

P.S.: I hate long sentences like this.

 

[Kilrogg]

Question

Was working through a section in Tobira last night that had the following sentence:

英語、ポルトガル語などの外来語から入って来て日本でも使われるようになった言葉を「外来語」と言い、外来語を日本語で書く時はカタカナで書きます。

I don't have any issue understanding the sentence, but one thing that's bothering me is the highlighted でも. Why でも and not では?

P.S.: I hate long sentences like this.

As far as I understand these notions (please correct me if I'm wrong), も tends to be softer, more inclusive, whereas は can introduce a contrast. As in "this is the case in Japan, but it's not/might not be the case in other countries".

This opposition between は and も is an integral part of the language. There are many instances where you can use either with varying nuances. But the general rule is that も is 'safer' and は is more categorical, if that makes sense. In some cases it doesn't make much of a difference.

Remember that も doesn't necessarily mean "also" or "too", as is often explained at a beginner level. It's an alternative to は most of the time.

 

[Beckx]

Ah, I don't think I knew that at all, and when I see も I am assuming it's serving a specific grammar role.

 

[Kilrogg]

Ah, I don't think I knew that at all, and when I see も I am assuming it's serving a specific grammar role.

Well, it is, technically, just like any other particle, and that's what makes it so unique to an English speaker. It's a very subtle role that isn't embedded in English grammar. Don't take my word for it though. I'm sure you'll find more accurate/precise descriptions of its meaning and uses if you look it up on Google or if you check a grammar book. Or if you wait for someone more qualified than me to chime in if I'm incorrect .

At any rate, now that you know to pay attention to this, I'm sure you'll notice that も is used in a ton of situations that would have made you scratch your head before.

 

[RangerBAD]

This might help too. Doesn't help with でも, but maybe a clearer understanding of では.

 

[Sakura]

Question

Was working through a section in Tobira last night that had the following sentence:

英語、ポルトガル語などの外来語から入って来て日本でも使われるようになった言葉を「外来語」と言い、外来語を日本語で書く時はカタカナで書きます。

I don't have any issue understanding the sentence, but one thing that's bothering me is the highlighted でも. Why でも and not では?

P.S.: I hate long sentences like this.

I believe it is there for emphasis. Like if you were to say 誰でもいい、なんでもいい、どうでもいい、どの店でも買える. They are saying foreign words that have come to be used even in Japan, something like that, rather than just saying foreign words used in Japan.

この店では欲しいものが買えない。
この店でも欲しいものが買えない。
では is singling out the store. Basically at THIS store, we can't buy. Whereas with でも it's implying a larger group, like we can't buy at this store either, or even at this store we can't buy (in this situation it would imply that this store of all places we could buy but couldn't)

I'm not sure if anything I typed makes sense, but hopefully there is some kind of information you will find useful here.

 

[Beckx]

That does make sense. I actually had read & dismissed the "even in Japan" meaning (when researching grammar dictionary) because the examples & description were more about contrast ("even if X, I will still Y"). But it makes more sense the way you phrase it.

 

[Kansoku]

Wtf, overnight the Google IME stopped working on my Windows 10 PC. The suggestion box is completely empty, although I can move through it, and select different stuff. The suggestions are there I just can't see them. And like always, I only found one other guy with the same problem, no answers tho.

The problem though is that my Japanese is not good enough so not only I don't know what to search nor understand what I find >.<

 

[Hoo-doo]

A coincidence I saw this thread just now.

Duolingo finally added the Japanese language on their mobile apps. Today.

It's been rather great so far.

&#12362;&#12399;&#12424;&#12358;!

 

[Kilrogg]

Wtf, overnight the Google IME stopped working on my Windows 10 PC. The suggestion box is completely empty, although I can move through it, and select different stuff. The suggestions are there I just can't see them. And like always, I only found one other guy with the same problem, no answers tho.

The problem though is that my Japanese is not good enough so not only I don't know what to search nor understand what I find >.<

No problems on my end. Everything's working fine.

 

[Pixeluh]

A coincidence I saw this thread just now.

Duolingo finally added the Japanese language on their mobile apps. Today.

It's been rather great so far.

&#12362;&#12399;&#12424;&#12358;!

I feel like a textbook would be a better suggestion rather than relying on duolingo. I have read that duolingo is really only targeted towards beginners,and it will not get you very far.

I don't know, I just don't understand the appeal. If the app only takes you to a beginner level, you'll have to do something else after it anyways. So why bother starting the app instead of a textbook.

Apps like memrise and anki are great on the side for learning new vocabulary or grammar points, but not as a main source of material. I feel as if learning with these tools should always be supplied with a textbook or grammar guide of some sort. &#128533;

 

[Marche90]

First of all, hi. I've been meaning to swing around here before, but I didn't know where to start. Surprise, surprise, I'm here after using Duolingo for a week and a bit more.

I feel like a textbook would be a better suggestion rather than relying on duolingo. I have read that duolingo is really only targeted towards beginners,and it will not get you very far.

I don't know, I just don't understand the appeal. If the app only takes you to a beginner level, you'll have to do something else after it anyways. So why bother starting the app instead of a textbook.

Apps like memrise and anki are great on the side for learning new vocabulary or grammar points, but not as a main source of material. I feel as if learning with these tools should always be supplied with a textbook or grammar guide of some sort. &#65533;&#65533;

Well, in my case, it provides me with a base, something to start with, and most importantly, it does so in an interactive way, which might be an important point for most of us using the app. Well, that, and having it in our smartphones and thus being able to use it at any time of the day. Don't underestimate convenience.

Of course, the thing is missing a way to practice and memorizing kanji, so that's a huge weakness. Do you guys have any recommendations for either an app or a DS/3DS software to practice with? I do have a Japanese 3DS, btw. My idea is to add the kanji that I've been shown so far and start practicing how to write them and memorizing them. Pretty much the only kanji that I've managed to learn how to distinguish are &#20154; and &#26085;&#26412; (the first one because is dead easy and the last ones because I see them all the time). I've been shown&#12288;&#20808;&#29983;&#12289;&#23398;&#29983;&#12289;&#20013;&#22269; and &#33521;&#35486; (plus maybe a few ones that I'm totally forgetting right now) but obviously those aren't sticking.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I had already memorized hiragana and katakana before starting with the app, so that's why I'm already at the point where I'm being shown kanji.

 

[Jintor]

Anki and/or blackboard method. Maybeeeee both if you can spare it.

Anki and general spaced repetition is legit good, but the best is getting to the point where you feel self sufficient... Anki is a compliment or supplement to whatever other kind of study you're doing. Reading NHK easy for instance is a great way to just build up your chops (though you probably need to go through a textbook primer to start with for real simple level kanji)

 

[Pixeluh]

First of all, hi. I've been meaning to swing around here before, but I didn't know where to start. Surprise, surprise, I'm here after using Duolingo for a week and a bit more.



Well, in my case, it provides me with a base, something to start with, and most importantly, it does so in an interactive way, which might be an important point for most of us using the app. Well, that, and having it in our smartphones and thus being able to use it at any time of the day. Don't underestimate convenience.

Of course, the thing is missing a way to practice and memorizing kanji, so that's a huge weakness. Do you guys have any recommendations for either an app or a DS/3DS software to practice with? I do have a Japanese 3DS, btw. My idea is to add the kanji that I've been shown so far and start practicing how to write them and memorizing them. Pretty much the only kanji that I've managed to learn how to distinguish are &#20154; and &#26085;&#26412; (the first one because is dead easy and the last ones because I see them all the time). I've been shown&#12288;&#20808;&#29983;&#12289;&#23398;&#29983;&#12289;&#20013;&#22269; and &#33521;&#35486; (plus maybe a few ones that I'm totally forgetting right now) but obviously those aren't sticking.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I had already memorized hiragana and katakana before starting with the app, so that's why I'm already at the point where I'm being shown kanji.

If it is a base you want, a textbook is still a much better choice. It will provide a better base that will teach you what you need to know as a beginner. I also don't see how it is convenient, especially when learning grammar. The Spanish version has no notes on the grammar points it introduces in the mobile version. That defeats the purpose of "on the go learning".

Do you want to learn kanji, or vocabulary words? I would hate to be annoying, but this is also another reason why a textbook is a good start. A textbook is going to provide you with the base to learn grammar points and vocabulary words each chapter. (Plus they provide reading and writing exercises!) You can freestyle Japanese all you want, but in my experience, it does not turn out well.

If you want to memorize anything, I would recommend Anki. It's basically a flash card program. You make a deck, add flashcards, and start using the deck. Anki will tell you when to review what is in the deck, etc. There are premade decks that are useful for things like this.

Going back to the kanji or vocabulary.... you can learn individual kanji readings and associate them with a mnemonic to recognize them. This will help in learning vocabulary a little bit easier. Or.... you could learn vocabulary off the bat. There is a deck called "core 2k" on anki, which provides you with the most common 2000 words.

 

[Kurita]

Almost forgot JLPT was next week, I should study a little bit... lol

 

[RetroDLC]

Hey, just a quick question.

I'm almost done using the Dr. Moku apps and Real Kana app for learning the Hiragana and Katakana alphabets, and I'm wanting to start learning Kanji to take the JLPT N5 at the end of the year. Next weekend I'm going to start doing a intensive learning beginners course every Saturday up to the end of the year, which will be using Minna no Nihongo Elementary Book 1 for reference.

So, my question is, which iOS apps are the best and up to date for me to learn Kanji with? The Dr. Moku Kanji app seems to have the outdated JLPT sets, which sucks because they're IAPs which I wasted money on. imiwa! seems to be the best equipped and up to date for teaching me and Kanji Quizzer seems fine for flashcard quizzing. Real Kanji is a thing too, but I've no clue if its up to date or not.

This is going to be fun.

Edit: Oh, if anyone knows a good app for learning how to count (and with quizzes), that would be great too. I'm on the verge of designing my own damn app for this.

 

[Marche90]

Anki and/or blackboard method. Maybeeeee both if you can spare it.

Anki and general spaced repetition is legit good, but the best is getting to the point where you feel self sufficient... Anki is a compliment or supplement to whatever other kind of study you're doing. Reading NHK easy for instance is a great way to just build up your chops (though you probably need to go through a textbook primer to start with for real simple level kanji)

If it is a base you want, a textbook is still a much better choice. It will provide a better base that will teach you what you need to know as a beginner. I also don't see how it is convenient, especially when learning grammar. The Spanish version has no notes on the grammar points it introduces in the mobile version. That defeats the purpose of "on the go learning".

Do you want to learn kanji, or vocabulary words? I would hate to be annoying, but this is also another reason why a textbook is a good start. A textbook is going to provide you with the base to learn grammar points and vocabulary words each chapter. (Plus they provide reading and writing exercises!) You can freestyle Japanese all you want, but in my experience, it does not turn out well.

If you want to memorize anything, I would recommend Anki. It's basically a flash card program. You make a deck, add flashcards, and start using the deck. Anki will tell you when to review what is in the deck, etc. There are premade decks that are useful for things like this.

Going back to the kanji or vocabulary.... you can learn individual kanji readings and associate them with a mnemonic to recognize them. This will help in learning vocabulary a little bit easier. Or.... you could learn vocabulary off the bat. There is a deck called "core 2k" on anki, which provides you with the most common 2000 words.

I should definitely try out Anki with a deck, then. I remember trying it a while ago and didn't really understood how to use it so that's why I hadn't considered it. For now I tried an app called Japanese Kanji Study and I don't think it's half bad, either: I managed to more or less memorize the kanji for the numbers 1 to 10 today (I practiced for more than an hour until I could pull out the shape and stroke order in one go). Not like they're that hard but still.... Not only you can group an amount of kanji to practice, they show you the strokes. Unfortunatedly something that I see that might be a problem is the explanation of the strokes, since none of them explain what's the deal with them, which brings me to the next point:

The textbook. If I'm being honest a big reason why I liked Duolingo to start studying the language is because I'm a rather scatterbrained person, and I decide to do most of the stuff I do on a whim (EDIT: I think I should stress here that that is in regard of what I'll do during the day, not what new thing I'll start and then abandon. Even if scatterbrained, I'm serious in following up when I need to), even while I'm at work. Puling out the app at any given time seems easier to me than pulling out a textbook at any determined hour of the day. I've used the app at 8 am all the way to 5 or 6 pm, and a few of those were simply because the reminder of the app in my phone ringed. Self-study is not something I'm exactly good at, so that's why I was hoping to study at a language school before long. Might as well go all out with the self-learning stuff now that I'm actually really motivated and have started to learn something.

Guess I could try setting up a reminder to study during the day... Anyway, I suppose there's no app that's structured to function like a textbook, is it? Any good kindle recommendation would be the second best thing here, I suppose, though I'm guessing I'll still need to pull out the good ol' pen and paper for it.

 

[Resilient]

Hey, just a quick question.

I'm almost done using the Dr. Moku apps and Real Kana app for learning the Hiragana and Katakana alphabets, and I'm wanting to start learning Kanji to take the JLPT N5 at the end of the year. Next weekend I'm going to start doing a intensive learning beginners course every Saturday up to the end of the year, which will be using Minna no Nihongo Elementary Book 1 for reference.

So, my question is, which iOS apps are the best and up to date for me to learn Kanji with? The Dr. Moku Kanji app seems to have the outdated JLPT sets, which sucks because they're IAPs which I wasted money on. imiwa! seems to be the best equipped and up to date for teaching me and Kanji Quizzer seems fine for flashcard quizzing. Real Kanji is a thing too, but I've no clue if its up to date or not.

This is going to be fun.

Edit: Oh, if anyone knows a good app for learning how to count (and with quizzes), that would be great too. I'm on the verge of designing my own damn app for this.

if you got 6 months you should be shooting for N3 so if you fall you land on the N4 cloud. not N5

 

[Oare]

Question

Was working through a section in Tobira last night that had the following sentence:

&#33521;&#35486;&#12289;&#12509;&#12523;&#12488;&#12460;&#12523;&#35486;&#12394;&#12393;&#12398;&#22806;&#26469;&#35486;&#12363;&#12425;&#20837;&#12387;&#12390;&#26469;&#12390;&#26085;&#26412;&#12391;&#12418;&#20351;&#12431;&#12428;&#12427;&#12424;&#12358;&#12395;&#12394;&#12387;&#12383;&#35328;&#33865;&#12434;&#12300;&#22806;&#26469;&#35486;&#12301;&#12392;&#35328;&#12356;&#12289;&#22806;&#26469;&#35486;&#12434;&#26085;&#26412;&#35486;&#12391;&#26360;&#12367;&#26178;&#12399;&#12459;&#12479;&#12459;&#12490;&#12391;&#26360;&#12365;&#12414;&#12377;&#12290;

I don't have any issue understanding the sentence, but one thing that's bothering me is the highlighted &#12391;&#12418;. Why &#12391;&#12418; and not &#12391;&#12399;?

P.S.: I hate long sentences like this.

"&#33521;&#35486;&#12289;&#12509;&#12523;&#12488;&#12460;&#12523;&#35486;&#12394;&#12393;&#12398;&#22806;&#26469;&#35486;&#12363;&#12425;&#20837;&#12387;&#12390;&#26469;&#12390;" should actually be "&#33521;&#35486;&#12289;&#12509;&#12523;&#12488;&#12460;&#12523;&#35486;&#12394;&#12393;&#12398;&#22806;&#22269;&#35486;&#12363;&#12425;&#20837;&#12387;&#12390;&#26469;&#12390;", but that's beside the point.

While it is true, as Kilrogg stated, that "&#12418;" doesn't necessarily always mean "also, too", it is in that sense that it is supposed to be understood here.
"Words from foreign languages such as English or Portuguese which have come to be used in Japan as well are called gairaigo".
"&#26085;&#26412;&#12391;&#12399;” is impossible here because it would imply an opposition, so it feels unnatural in the sentence.
"&#26085;&#26412;&#12391;" would be fine. But "&#12391;&#12418;" definitely feels more natural since borrowed words, by definition, are (or were at some point) also used in the language they originated from.

 

[dukeoflegs]

Which Anki app are people using on Android? I looked in the play store and saw a bunch but no official(?) app.

I picked up a good on writing Hiragana and Katakana and I have noticed my ability to recognize Hiragana has improved a lot. I usually write a character 20 times then move onto the next. I still struggle when reading words or phases though, I am really slow at reading it out loud, but feel like I have made a lot of improvement over the last 3 weeks.

 

[RetroDLC]

if you got 6 months you should be shooting for N3 so if you fall you land on the N4 cloud. not N5

Does the JLPT actually score like that (a single test that gives you a level score) or can I take multiple level JLPT tests during the same weekend? I'm more thoughtful about how much free time I have around my work (I'm a dialogue post-audio editor/engineer for games).

 

[KtSlime]

Does the JLPT actually score like that (a single test that gives you a level score) or can I take multiple level JLPT tests during the same weekend? I'm more thoughtful about how much free time I have around my work (I'm a dialogue post-audio editor/engineer for games).

It does not, what he means is study for 3, and if you don't think you will pass sign up for 4 instead when applications open. The tests are more or less at the same time and I think the application system locks you out of signing up for more than one test, but I have never tried to do that. Even if it does and the test time is skewed enough to do it, I don't recommend doing so, the JLPT is a marathon not a sprint.